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Carolina Blues Redskins Players Insist Zorn Isn't the Problem
The Washington Post ^ | 10/12/09 | Jason Reid

Posted on 10/12/2009 6:53:02 AM PDT by pgkdan

"In the moments immediately after another unsettling defeat that prompted the Washington Redskins to question much about themselves, many team leaders were united on this: Changing the head coach alone will not solve their problems.

To be sure, many things are going poorly for the Redskins, as evidenced by a 20-17 loss to the formerly winless Carolina Panthers on Sunday afternoon at Bank of America Stadium. Washington was undone, in large part, by a strange sequence of events on a punt in the fourth quarter that resulted in a turnover that Carolina quickly capitalized on to score the go-ahead touchdown.

The play, on which punt returner Antwaan Randle El signaled for a fair catch, ended with the Panthers recovering the ball on the Redskins 12-yard line after Byron Westbrook was pushed into Randle El and the ball hit Westbrook's foot. Two plays later, Carolina running back Jonathan Stewart ran untouched through the right side of Washington's defense for a touchdown. Then quarterback Jake Delhomme and wide receiver Steve Smith teamed on a two-point conversion pass.

With no timeouts -- Washington had used its third and final one with 8 minutes 1 second remaining because the play clock was running down as Coach Jim Zorn attempted to change a play he thought would fail -- and the passing game weakened by the loss of left tackle Chris Samuels early in the first quarter, the Redskins stalled on their next possession and did not get the ball back.

The Panthers (1-3) put away the victory behind the running of DeAngelo Williams and Delhomme...

Click here for full article

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Hobbies; Local News; Sports
KEYWORDS: disaster; footbal; nfl; redskins; zorn

1 posted on 10/12/2009 6:53:03 AM PDT by pgkdan
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To: pgkdan

Are there any Redskins fans out there who care to chime in? I don’t think Zorn is our biggest problem but since we can’t fire the idiot owner where do you start with this team?


2 posted on 10/12/2009 6:57:20 AM PDT by pgkdan ( I miss Ronald Reagan!)
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To: pgkdan
The play, on which punt returner Antwaan Randle El signaled for a fair catch, ended with the Panthers recovering the ball on the Redskins 12-yard line after Byron Westbrook was pushed into Randle El and the ball hit Westbrook's foot.

That happened last night in the Colts game too, a player on the return team was pushed into guy calling for a fair catch and it resulted in a fumble. This really needs to be a penalty IMHO. Otherwise it seems to be a smart special play team play right now.

3 posted on 10/12/2009 7:00:24 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: Always Right
Otherwise it seems to be a smart special play team play right now.

Yeah but...if a fair catch is signalled everyone on the kicking team should steer clear of the receiver. Westbrook shouldn't have been in the vicinity to get blocked into Randle-El. I don't know but that was one screwed up play that really turned the game over to Carolina. Too bad the defense couldn't have stopped the TD and held them to a Field Goal.

4 posted on 10/12/2009 7:07:28 AM PDT by pgkdan ( I miss Ronald Reagan!)
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To: pgkdan
Are there any Redskins fans out there who care to chime in?

Yeah, me. Here's my expert analysis:

It's The Snyder Curse.

The Redskins must change owners immediately.

5 posted on 10/12/2009 7:09:50 AM PDT by savedbygrace (You are only leading if someone follows. Otherwise, you just wandered off... [Smokin' Joe])
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To: pgkdan
Antwaan Randle El

All these years in the League, and he still plays like a dumb rookie.

6 posted on 10/12/2009 7:13:55 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: savedbygrace

Amen. Or at least we need a REAL general manager! Someone who doesn’t confuse running an NFL team with a Fantasy Football team. Snyder is a clown when it comes to running a team...a rich clown but a clown none the less.


7 posted on 10/12/2009 7:14:53 AM PDT by pgkdan ( I miss Ronald Reagan!)
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To: martin_fierro
All these years in the League, and he still plays like a dumb rookie.

You mean it was Randle El's fault that Westbrook screwed up?

8 posted on 10/12/2009 7:16:38 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: pgkdan

Can’t remember who it was this morning on the TV news said that Zorn will be fired within the month, but it could happen in a week or two. I believe it was on Morning Joe...


9 posted on 10/12/2009 7:18:52 AM PDT by Pharmboy (The Stone Age did not end because they ran out of stones...)
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To: pgkdan
Yeah but...if a fair catch is signalled everyone on the kicking team should steer clear of the receiver. Westbrook shouldn't have been in the vicinity to get blocked into Randle-El.

Yeah, but when you are blocking you can't always see when the fair catch is being called or where the returner is. It seems like the smart play is stay engaged with the blocker and steer him into the returner. It is Westbrook's fault, but it also isn't right that this can be done. There will be a rule change.

10 posted on 10/12/2009 7:22:27 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: pgkdan

A zombie team playing in a stadium named after a zombie bank—this would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic.


11 posted on 10/12/2009 7:22:49 AM PDT by cgbg (Lying is what they _do_.)
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To: pgkdan
Jason Campbell is the problem, in my opinion, which I guess means Zorn is a problem, too, for sticking with him.

His wind-up release is too slow for the West Coast offense, and worse, his field generalship is extremely lacking. Notice how he always has a deer-in-the-headlights look when he comes to the line of scrimmage. Whereas real field generals like Tom Brady, the Mannings, and others gesture with their arms while moving toward the player they're trying to communicate with, making sure the player is aware of the instruction, Campbell oh so wearily flicks a hand now and then, assuming the player is watching.

Jason is simply not directing or controlling the offense, he's thinking defensively and it shows.

Todd Collins would do better, but if I were Zorn I'd trade right now for someone (who's available) like Jeff Garcia, this offense could be so good with someone that could take it over and lead it.

12 posted on 10/12/2009 7:24:19 AM PDT by wayoverontheright
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To: Always Right
That happened last night in the Colts game too, a player on the return team was pushed into guy calling for a fair catch and it resulted in a fumble. This really needs to be a penalty IMHO. Otherwise it seems to be a smart special play team play right now.

I can't believe it wasn't a penalty. The Redskin player wasn't "blocked" into the punt returner, he was held and driven backwards for 8 yards and then pushed into the punter. The Panthers certainly didn't give the punt returner ANY room to catch that punt. It was complete BS.

13 posted on 10/12/2009 7:27:24 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Hey Obama. Where is Osama Bin Laden?)
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To: pgkdan

As a Cowboys fan, I think Zorn is doing a terrific job.


14 posted on 10/12/2009 7:28:12 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: pgkdan

They should have traded Portis two years ago. He’s averaging 3.7 yards per carry this year, and only has one TD for the entire season.

I don’t think the Haynesworth deal has been as valuable as Snyder thought it would be. It’s not even a close call, IMO.

Chris Samuels is a real good lineman, but he can’t seem to stay healthy.

I could go on down the list, but you get the point.


15 posted on 10/12/2009 7:28:41 AM PDT by savedbygrace (You are only leading if someone follows. Otherwise, you just wandered off... [Smokin' Joe])
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To: VeniVidiVici
I can't believe it wasn't a penalty. The Redskin player wasn't "blocked" into the punt returner, he was held and driven backwards for 8 yards and then pushed into the punter.

Which is perfectly legal by the rules. The rules only protect from a player getting block into the returner if the player is just standing there not blocking. As long as they are 'engaged', there is no penalty. There is no such thing as holding a blocker either, so that is not a penalty. This is a loophole in the rule and unless it is changed, more players will start taking advantage of it. If someone is blocking you, right now it is perfectly legal to throw him into the returner.

16 posted on 10/12/2009 7:31:38 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: martin_fierro

Randle El was not at fault this week...last week was a different story.


17 posted on 10/12/2009 7:32:41 AM PDT by pgkdan ( I miss Ronald Reagan!)
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To: wayoverontheright

I agree, Jason Campbell is one of the biggest problems. Remember at Auburn he had Ronny Brown and Carnell Williams as running backs and threw very seldomly.

If his first and second options are covered, he panicks, he has no confidence to create a play.

Backup, yes. Starter, no.


18 posted on 10/12/2009 7:34:19 AM PDT by wac3rd (Felipe Calderon supports the public option.)
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To: wayoverontheright
Todd Collins would do better, but if I were Zorn I'd trade right now for someone (who's available) like Jeff Garcia, this offense could be so good with someone that could take it over and lead it.

I garee that Collins would do better. I've been saying that since about game 10 last season but don't think for a minute that Zorn has any say at all in who plays for this team. This is Danny Boy the Snyder's team and don't you forget it.

19 posted on 10/12/2009 7:37:15 AM PDT by pgkdan ( I miss Ronald Reagan!)
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To: pgkdan

S N Y D E R S U C K S !!!!

The little boy wonder should never had gotten this team...

20 posted on 10/12/2009 7:49:53 AM PDT by databoss (Keep The Change....)
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To: pgkdan

Snyder’s the big problem. He won’t stick with a coach long enough for the team to adjust and master the offense.

I’m about over Jason Campbell too. True he’s had to adjust to what, six new offenses in his short career, but what I don’t like is that in game critical situations he doesn’t ever seem to play with a sense of urgency. The man’s been in the league for awhile now, but there are many college QBs who run a better 2 minute drill than Campbell.

The defense played well yesterday, as they usually do, but wore down because the offense was pitiful.

If I’m Zorn I switch QBs at the half next week if I’m behind.


21 posted on 10/12/2009 7:54:22 AM PDT by Swing_Thought (The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is a knowledge of our own ignorance. - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Pharmboy

When is the Skins’ bye week? That’s probably when the firing will take place.

Wade Phillips should get the axe as well.


22 posted on 10/12/2009 7:56:10 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: LS
As a Cowboys fan, I think Zorn is doing a terrific job.

Skins fans say the same about Wade.

23 posted on 10/12/2009 7:56:50 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: pgkdan
Zorn is a good coach.

2 things killed them this game which the press is really missing.

1) Chris Samuels hurt (Last year when Chris Samuels got hurt is when they lost games)

2) One crazy special teams play.

24 posted on 10/12/2009 7:58:49 AM PDT by FreedomProtector
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To: FreedomProtector

Yea, but they wouldn’t have even been in the game were it not for Carolina’s turnovers. The offense is pitiful. Has been all year.


25 posted on 10/12/2009 8:01:51 AM PDT by Swing_Thought (The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is a knowledge of our own ignorance. - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: dfwgator

LOL. Maybe we should get into a bidding war for Norv Turner.


26 posted on 10/12/2009 8:14:21 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: dfwgator

The have KC next week followes by the Eagles and then their Bye week. If we don’t win the next two I think Zorn’s gone. And that won’t solve anything.


27 posted on 10/12/2009 8:15:03 AM PDT by pgkdan ( I miss Ronald Reagan!)
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To: LS

What’s strange is that the Cowboys’ two losses have been to teams with a combined 10-0 record (Giants and Broncos) and their three wins have come against teams that have combined for one win between them (Tampa, Carolina and KC). They came close to beating the two unbeatens, and came close to losing their games to the bad games. So it’s really hard to gauge this team after 5 games.


28 posted on 10/12/2009 8:17:45 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: FreedomProtector; Swing_Thought

I agree with the swinger. On their own the offense only put up 3 points. They were awful! We had less total offense yesterday than other teams were averaging in Rushing yards against this team. It was pitiful.


29 posted on 10/12/2009 8:17:46 AM PDT by pgkdan ( I miss Ronald Reagan!)
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To: savedbygrace
They should have traded Portis two years ago. He’s averaging 3.7 yards per carry this year, and only has one TD for the entire season.

Agreed. His fight with Sellars this week was a distraction that this team really, really didn't need. He's a Prima Donna with a lousy attitude.

30 posted on 10/12/2009 8:19:23 AM PDT by pgkdan ( I miss Ronald Reagan!)
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To: dfwgator
I agree. They are missing F. Jones, their bigplay runner; only yesterday did Austin step up among the receivers; and they have had a lead over two teams (Denver and the Giants) going into the last minutes of the game and couldn't hold it. Yesterday, they had something like 11 penalties, including a near-killer that allowed the Chiefs to tie it up.

I think there is hope. Right now, they would get crushed by the Eagles, but they very well may be the equivalent of the Giants two years ago--unimpressive, but able to put it together.

31 posted on 10/12/2009 8:42:20 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: LS

And as Aikman pointed out, it doesn’t matter how well the defense plays for the first 58 minutes, everytime they need a stop at the end of a game, they don’t get it.


32 posted on 10/12/2009 8:44:01 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

Yes. There is an old maxim that the key to winning in the NFL is a strong pass rush in the 4th quarter. A couple of sacks in either of those losses, and Dallas is 5-0. But if ifs and buts were candies and nuts, as Dandy Don Meredith used to say, we’d all have a merry Christmas.


33 posted on 10/12/2009 8:50:17 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: LS
A couple of sacks in either of those losses, and Dallas is 5-0.

Well as the Tuna says, "You are what you are."

34 posted on 10/12/2009 8:54:01 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: wayoverontheright

My opinion, the offensive line can’t pass block or run block. Just my opinion. Think the rest of the team is okay. Where do you get a couple of pro-bowl quality offensive linemen at this point in the game. Also, stop playing the west coast offense and hammer them in the gut spiced with play action passes designed to give the offense a chance to build a rhythm. As soon as we do something well, Zorn spools another check-down west coast play that the line can’t block so we watch Jason scramble sideway instead of north south trying to make the play. Attack forwards not sideways.


35 posted on 10/12/2009 8:55:36 AM PDT by equalitybeforethelaw
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To: pgkdan

The problem is almost entirely Coach Zorn. He continually “bucks the odds”, with a team that is hardly capable of playing when the odds are in their favor. He went for a 4th and 3 and missed, after which the other team had a short march to kick a field goal — the winning margin of the game.

And it’s clear his play calling sucks, and the defense is tired of saving them from their ineptitude. Letting a quarterback run a naked bootleg for a 1st down when you need to stop them isn’t directly the Coach’s fault, but he put them in that situation.

A team that can’t call plays well enough to avoid using all their time outs with 8 minutes to go? Sorry, that’s the coach. Because if it’s the quarterback, the quarterback should have been benched long ago, and it’s still the coach’s fault.


36 posted on 10/12/2009 9:19:17 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Always Right

In the colts game, the guy wasn’t PUSHED into the receiver, he just ran into him following the guy he was trying to block, because he wasn’t paying attention.

But pushing a player into the guy making a fair catch should be a penalty, and I thought it actually WAS a penalty, and am surprised to find it isn’t.


37 posted on 10/12/2009 9:20:43 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: pgkdan

Oh my lord. Where to start.

This team is terrible. Drop back quarterback in a West coast offense who now looks like he is afraid to throw the ball downfield. RBack to slow to hit the open holes (very few!) and when he does he trips on his own feet. Reciever’s that can’t get open run 6 yard routes when it is 3rd and 8.
Defense that plays OK but when they need to make a stop they can’t.

Management has no clue how to evaluate talent and overpays for everything. Needless to say little or no input from current draft picks. That’s when the have them and have not traded them away for some aging, underperforming player.

And a owner who can’t just sign the checks and sit in his sky box.

With all this, I am still a fan and will be till I assume room tempature.

I should have my head examined....


38 posted on 10/12/2009 9:26:12 AM PDT by zavvone
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To: CharlesWayneCT

I also agree that Portis appears to be done, he often runs sideways when he needs to run forward, he is having trouble following his blockers.

Was he the one that got sacked in the end zone for the safety, after actually stepping one foot out of the end zone and then running back INTO the end zone to try to get around the corner? Who runs backwards and sideways from their own 1 yard line?


39 posted on 10/12/2009 9:27:01 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: zavvone

"I've seen teams suck before, but those were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked."

40 posted on 10/12/2009 9:29:01 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

Also,

Not sure about this but I think this might be the first time in NFL history that a team started out the season playing their first six games against teams without any wins.

Strange...


41 posted on 10/12/2009 9:35:06 AM PDT by zavvone
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Who runs backwards and sideways from their own 1 yard line?

Clinton Portis. Yeah. He's the guy. And not only has he lost a step or three but he can't keep his big mouth shut.

42 posted on 10/12/2009 9:35:17 AM PDT by pgkdan ( I miss Ronald Reagan!)
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To: pgkdan
Clinton Portis. Yeah. He's the guy. And not only has he lost a step or three but he can't keep his big mouth shut.

Putting that University of Miami education to good use.

43 posted on 10/12/2009 9:37:11 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

Yep...good point, I think you are right. Their bye is Nov 1, and he will likely be gone by then.


44 posted on 10/12/2009 9:37:15 AM PDT by Pharmboy (The Stone Age did not end because they ran out of stones...)
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To: dfwgator
Cowboys’ ... came close to beating the two unbeatens, and came close to losing their games to the bad games. So it’s really hard to gauge this team after 5 games

Yeah. Two plays that they made from being 1-4. Two plays that they didn't make from being 5-0.

45 posted on 10/12/2009 9:42:07 AM PDT by Pilsner
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To: savedbygrace

A-freaking-men. Dan Snyder’s taken a proud franchise and driven it over the cliff...it’s like he’s trying to see if he can screw up worse than Al Davis and the Raiders.

}:-)4


46 posted on 10/12/2009 9:42:26 AM PDT by Moose4 (Ted Kennedy: "If they bring up Camelot, we get to bring up the lady in the lake.")
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To: zavvone
Not sure about this but I think this might be the first time in NFL history that a team started out the season playing their first six games against teams without any wins.

And I think NE or somebody have played undefeated teams every week so far.

47 posted on 10/12/2009 9:57:05 AM PDT by Always Right
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