Posted on 10/15/2009 2:58:49 PM PDT by rxsid
Joe says:
Gorefan - My heritage includes the Adams of Massachusetts and the Herndons of Virginia. The Adams papers I am in possession of plainly state they looked to "Vattel's Law of Nations" for guidance in determining who might be qualified as a "natural born Citizen". (Yes, they capitalized "Citizen".) Do you actually believe there was no discussion of the topic by the Founding Fathers? Are you truly that ignorant of how well the Founding Fathers understood the law and its possible impact on future generations? It is very clear you haven't a clue how well educated and intelligent the Founding Fathers were. Most were conversant in Latin and Greek, plus Hebrew and Aramaic.
October 14, 10:48 PM
Joe says:
My family is in possession of over seven thousand files of Adams documents that have been passed from generation to generation. We know what our forebears intended, we are not guessing and jumping to conclusions. Every possible legal scenario was thoroughly discussed and carefully decided by the Founding Fathers. Contrary to prevailing opinion, they left NOTHING to chance. I will be sharing our documents with the best qualified attorneys working on the Obama eligibility cases. Get used to it, Obama is finished and he knows it. Obama is knowingly leading his blinded followers down the paths of deceit and directly into the darkened halls of shame.
October 14, 11:00 PM
Joe says:
My family also counts among our forebears King O'Leathlobhair (pronounced OWE LAL_OW_IR), who was ruler of all England in the third century A.D. The name O'Leathlobhair means "seeker of justice" and it is the original term from which the word "lawyer" was derived around the year 100 B.C. We've been well known as meticulous practitioners of the law since before the birth of Christ. In that time, I believe we have acquired a rather firm grasp of the basic ideas of how laws are to be properly formulated and administered. Obama shall not be allowed to continue to illegally retain the office of president.
October 14, 11:53 PM
"John says:
The Adams papers I am in possession of plainly state they looked to "Vattel's Law of Nations" for guidance in determining who might be qualified as a "natural born Citizen"."Joe - Please tell me you're kidding
October 15, 12:07 AM
Joe says:
John - This is an extremely serious matter, I do not "kid" about such issues.
October 15, 12:08 AM
Joe says:
My family and others have quietly observed and awaited the full winnowing of the wheat from the chaff in the legal matter of Obama's lack of eligibility. We are now preparing to act in unison to see that the law is enforced. The subject of "natural born Citizen" has never before been at issue during the term of a sitting president. The matter shall be decided fairly and equitably from information contained within very clear and meet and proper archived resources. The Lees of Virginia and other families also possess within their private archives a great deal of documentation regarding the intent of the Founding Fathers. Those who believe this issue was not debated and decided long ago haven't been previously afforded access to the existing documents.
October 15, 12:29 AM
John says:
Joe - I've been researching this subject for a year. Trust me, I know exactly how serious this is. I'd like to talk to you more but offline. If you're interested, email me at theoriginalist@rocketmail.com
October 15, 12:46 AM
Joe says:
The trump cards are face-up on the table for all to see. The "natural born Citizen" issue is neither mysterious, nor undecided. Always remember : Only patience, wisdom, and forebearance bring justice, the law shall not be hastened to conclusion. I must now depart. At noon today, a real estate closing demands my attention. I bid you all a good evening and may God bless America.
October 15, 12:52 AM
Joe says:
John - I shall contact you later today. Thank you for researching the issue and rest assured many families hold information that will prove vitally important to serious practitioners of the law.
October 15, 12:57 AM
You keep telling yourself that.
If this guy has Adam’s once private papers that elucidates the NBC and the Law of Nations clauses as he says, your guy Obama is in big trouble...which he states below.
“John says: The Adams papers I am in possession of plainly state they looked to “Vattel’s Law of Nations” for guidance in determining who might be qualified as a “natural born Citizen”.”
Ahh Non-sequitur - the tr**l who cannot answer basic legal questions.
Great going Craw !
NS, Drew-Wrong-Conclusion,
YEAH ! SO THERE !
Troll-faces !
If this is true, why are they not in a museum, and why have I never read about them (not that I was shut out or anything, I'm just a big history fan and thought I might have run across a mention)
The most oft-repeated phrase in birtherdom.
-PJ
Good point. Adam’s (et. al) were not “wise [female] latinas”
They being what...the papers the guy (?) say's his family has (& the others)? Well, it's really not reasonable to think that the gov't or some museum has 100% of every single document written by the founders.
Have a look here for but one fairly recent example:
Letters of Delegates to Congress: Volume 25 March 1, 1788-December 31, 1789http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(dg025422))
Secret Committee Contract
"MS (Privately owned original, 1993). In the hand of Roger Sherman.
1 A copy of a 60-page notebook in the hand of Connecticut delegate Roger Sherman was made available for use in this supplement by Mr. Joseph Rubenfine of West Palm Beach, Fla. It contains 24 pages of notes on Sherman's readings from Emmerich Vattel and the Bishop of Bristol, various personal expense accounts from 1781 to 1784, and copies of reports now in the PCC on Continental expenses and indebtedness, battle casualties, and the hospital establishment as of July 23, 1781, of which only the present notes do not duplicate information available elsewhere."
So yes, there very well could be many documents that remain in private collections and therefore out of the public realm.
If the docs do exist, it would be fascinating to have them (or some portion at least) be made available to the public.
Blackstone wrote of Natural Born Subjects, not citizens, and wrote a lot about them, not just the raw definition. The whole notion, according to Blackstone, comes from the fealty owed to the feudal Lord.
No thanks.
No kidding! And, clearly, the founders thought enough the same to go so far as to wage war against those "ideals".
Would those be the papers of Bernie Adams, Ralph Adams, Chuck Adams, who?
Regardless they will make a good match with your affidavit on Eric Holder.
Ahh Frantzie - the Birther who cannot ask basic legal questions.
You Birthers jump all over myths and fairy tales that seem to support your tales, regardless of how outrageous they are. In fact, the more outrageous they are the better you like them.
It's the facts you ignore that are more telling. Fact: John Adams was not part of the Constitutional convention. Fact: John Adams wrote no known letters to any member of the convention discussing natural-born citizenship. Fact: Nothing in the Adams papers on file with the Massachusetts Historical Society show that Adams ever corresponded with any of the Founders on the definition of natural-born citizen. Fact: In his book you referenced, "Defense of the Constitutions of the United States", Adams doesn't mention Vattel once that I can find. Fact: The Adams Papers with the Massachusetts Historical Society contain over 27,000 separate items. The idea that there is an unknown cache of John Adams papers somewhere is ridiculous.
Birther.
And yet, amazingly enough, none of those letters made it into the collection of James Madison papers on file with the Library of Congress. Link
Nor do they seem to be with the Adams papers. Link
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