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Pictured: Josie Romero, the eight-year-old 'sex change girl' who was born a boy
dailymail.co.uk ^ | Oct. 15, 2009 | Sara Nelson

Posted on 10/17/2009 5:15:56 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY

Josie Romero loves the colour pink, braiding her hair and having her fingernails painted.

But life has not always been easy for this sweet and charming eight-year-old, who was born in the body of a boy.

The transgender youngster, then called Joseph, knew at the age of four that she was the wrong sex and even told her parents: 'I am really a girl.'

At five, she was refusing to have her hair cut and only wore colours like orange which were nearest to girly pink.

By the time she reached six, Josie had been diagnosed as transgender and was beginning her transition to becoming a female.

Mother Venessia, 42, said: 'When she was a toddler, she was always trying to turn her boy toys into girl toys.

'She used to take her army figures, wrap them up and rock them like a baby.

'As she grew older and started to talk, she always said: "I'm a girl".

'We used to correct her and say: "No you're a boy".

'But by the time she was four, she was insisting: "No I really am a girl".

'We started to realise she wasn't just playing. She would always correct anyone who called her a boy.

'She'd wrap one of my scarves around her waist to make a skirt. It was her favourite game.'

Venessia and her husband Joseph, 42, an airforce engineer, from Vail, Arizona, made the brave decision to tell their daughter's story to help other parents of transexual youngsters.


(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: culturewar; disorders; eugenics; genderiddisorder; homosexualagenda; mentalillness; napl; parenting; psychology; sexchange; sexpositiveagenda; transgender
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1 posted on 10/17/2009 5:15:56 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
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To: Free ThinkerNY

UK society is sick since it rejected Christianity. Islam wants to “cure” that sickness.


2 posted on 10/17/2009 5:23:06 PM PDT by GeronL (They Made It Happen On Purpose Economically. MIHOPE)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

The parents of this boy should do thirty years.Any “physicians” responsible for this boy’s gender “change” should do fifty.


3 posted on 10/17/2009 5:24:01 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Host The Beer Summit-->Win The Nobel Peace Prize!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Well it certainly seems as if “she” has a female brain ,, I certainly hope that this works out.


4 posted on 10/17/2009 5:24:10 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: Free ThinkerNY

The parents of this poor creature belong in jail. WHAT IN HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE FREAKS???????????


5 posted on 10/17/2009 5:28:54 PM PDT by taillightchaser (When a democrat says "The American people" you know the next words out of his mouth will be lies.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

They cant fool God.


6 posted on 10/17/2009 5:31:40 PM PDT by Soothesayer9
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To: Free ThinkerNY

He has a difficult life ahead.


7 posted on 10/17/2009 5:40:38 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Words fail ...


8 posted on 10/17/2009 5:41:04 PM PDT by ROTB ("By any means necessary" is evil. Wanting to save humanity is often covering fascism.)
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To: Soothesayer9
They cant fool God.

How true! They also cant fool THEMSELVES or anyone else for that matter...regardless of what they say or do.
9 posted on 10/17/2009 5:41:28 PM PDT by Mister Muggles
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To: Free ThinkerNY
There was a thread on this sort of thing before. And maybe I'm still missing something here, but I don't believe an interest in pink things and such are biologically driven. Dolls? Dresses? Skirts? These are culture aspects not instinct.

I can see how it may be possible for someone to be born with a "Female" brain (hormones messed up during pregnancy). However, that does not mean that all the CULTURAL driven traits would be present.... unless the child was being encouraged to be female by an adult well versed in stereotypical female interests.

So I suspect that mommy wanted a girl...
10 posted on 10/17/2009 5:43:17 PM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: StolarStorm

What concerns me is that the Mother did the healthier thing and did adopt a girl. And then the son continued to want to be a daughter, whether to gain more maternal approval or from biological failings, I don’t know.


11 posted on 10/17/2009 5:47:28 PM PDT by tbw2 (Freeper sci-fi - "Humanity's Edge" - on amazon.com)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Suicide by 30.


12 posted on 10/17/2009 5:53:42 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Live jubtabulously!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
A Chopadicktomy for an 8 yr old?

...certainly doesn't change the that pesky chromosome thing.

Unbelievable.

13 posted on 10/17/2009 5:55:32 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: Free ThinkerNY

This little boy obviously has a mental health disorder.

So sad that the parents, doctor and so many of those making comments about the article feel that the little boy should be hormonally altered and surgically mutilated in response to his disorder.


14 posted on 10/17/2009 5:55:40 PM PDT by Reddy
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Medical-wise, couldn’t there be a possibility though, that this child was really meant to be a girl, perhaps somehow while forming in the womb some signals got crossed somehow. So while the rest of him/her was in agreement that she would be a she, the lower part didn’t get the message right and developed male genitalia? I’m not advocating a sex change at 8, just wondering about the possibility of something like that happening. (runs for cover now!)


15 posted on 10/17/2009 6:16:52 PM PDT by xpealidocious
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Man Hands.

16 posted on 10/17/2009 6:17:51 PM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: xpealidocious
It is actually very possible for someone to be born with a female brain. Brain scans have revealed differences and there are cases of some individuals having a brain scan identical to a typical female.

However, I really doubt that such a things could be identified for sure at such a young age... and I also doubt that the "girl" in question could possibly have all the cultural female traits without being influenced.

It is not a genetic predisposition for women to like skirts and pink things. They sure didn't wear those things in neolithic days...
17 posted on 10/17/2009 6:29:45 PM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: Free ThinkerNY

So we’re mainstreaming child abuse now in the name of Political Correctness? How vogue.


18 posted on 10/17/2009 6:35:11 PM PDT by word_warrior_bob (You can now see my amazing doggie and new puppy on my homepage!! Come say hello to Jake & Sonny)
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To: xpealidocious
Medical-wise, couldn’t there be a possibility though, that this child was really meant to be a girl, perhaps somehow while forming in the womb some signals got crossed somehow

I think so. I know of someone, who although definitely a woman, when she had surgery for an unrelated issue, they told her there were some male parts inside her...or words to that effect.

19 posted on 10/17/2009 6:35:28 PM PDT by madison10
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To: madison10

And I have an male acquaintance who at age 12 had an appendectomey and when it was over the surgeon looked around a bit and found two ovaries. He removed them and a vestigal uterus also.


20 posted on 10/17/2009 6:41:07 PM PDT by Chickensoup (Angry about where our country is going with the current regime at the helm.)
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To: martin_fierro

Even though the kid is dressed like a girl - he still looks like a boy in the face to me - and like you said - man hands. This boy’s parents, and the doctor that performed the surgery, should rot in jail for the rest of their lives.


21 posted on 10/17/2009 6:45:57 PM PDT by alicewonders (Sarah Palin is the face of America's future.)
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To: Chickensoup

Was this person able to have children as an adult? I wonder if perhaps the surgeon was premature in removing the ovaries... if that was their only route to having kids....


22 posted on 10/17/2009 6:49:31 PM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: StolarStorm

Yep. Had two sets.


23 posted on 10/17/2009 6:50:37 PM PDT by Chickensoup (Angry about where our country is going with the current regime at the helm.)
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To: Chickensoup
"And I have an male acquaintance who at age 12 had an appendectomey and when it was over the surgeon looked around a bit and found two ovaries."

Fraternal twins. Only one developed, and the tissue of the undeveloped twin is joined to the survivor. Not terribly uncommon.

24 posted on 10/17/2009 6:53:30 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: Neidermeyer
"Well it certainly seems as if “she” has a female brain ,, I certainly hope that this works out."

Would you venture a guess on how it possibly could?

Will 'her' husband deserve the death penalty when he murders his 'wife' for defrauding him?

25 posted on 10/17/2009 6:59:06 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: editor-surveyor

Most likely. His mother always wondered what would have happened to him at puberty.


26 posted on 10/17/2009 6:59:37 PM PDT by Chickensoup (Angry about where our country is going with the current regime at the helm.)
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To: Chickensoup

Great! I was worried that this was one of those situations where a surgeon might have been a bit quick to cut.


27 posted on 10/17/2009 7:00:16 PM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: StolarStorm
but I don't believe an interest in pink things and such are biologically driven. Dolls? Dresses? Skirts? These are culture aspects not instinct.

Ironically, it is the Libs who are the first to say that these cultural "aspects" are simply artifacts of paternalism akin to slavery, yet it is the Libs are the first to applaud a lifechanging decision based on these "aspects" and done to a little child.

28 posted on 10/17/2009 7:29:19 PM PDT by fightinJAG (Mr. President: Why did you appoint a Communist to your Administration?)
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To: Neidermeyer

This is not a case of parents putting crazy ideas into a kid’s head, or a kid picking up crazy-trendy ideas from peers. A preschooler who firmly insists for YEARS they’re the opposite sex from what their anatomy looks like has got some fundamental physiological problem, even when medical science can’t always pinpoint it yet.

This child has had no surgery or hormone treatments. They’re looking to start hormone treatments to delay puberty, since that will give the child more time to mature and understand the irreversible nature of things like surgery, hormone treatments to induce female puberty, or allowing male puberty to proceed (with irreversible effects on facial hair, voice, and jaw structure.


29 posted on 10/17/2009 8:16:25 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: xpealidocious

Yes, exactly. The possible causes are complex and numerous, but in all likelihood have a genetic/physiological basis. For example, there are some people with two X chromosomes and no Y chromosome, but with a key chunk of genetic code from a Y chromosome sitting on one of their X chromosomes, sending male signals out in every cell of their body. It’s just not as simple as the folks shouting criticism imagine. The lack of compassion for parents and children facing such a problem is ugly.

I have no sympathy for rebellious teens and college students who suddenly “realize” they’re the opposite sex, only after exposure to a lot of sociopolitical brainwashing, and the realization that they’ll get lots of attention and support from the PC crowd if they make this announcement. But no way is that what’s going on with a preschooler whose father, an air force engineer, and stay-at-home mother are telling their child he’s a boy, calling him Joseph, dressing him in boy clothes, correcting him when he says he’s a girl, living on a military base, and the child persists for years in insisting he’s a girl.


30 posted on 10/17/2009 8:29:42 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: GovernmentShrinker
My 5 year old has been insisting that he's a robot for years. Doesn't mean he is one... or does it? Uh oh.

I think its safe to assume that this kid has had chromosome testing by now. So, rule that out.

I think most people here don't disagree with the possibility of there being a biological reason for this behavior,... but rather have an issue with the fact that it seems as if the parents are giving into it so young. We also don't know what is really going on in their home beyond what they claim.

I still don't think the kid would be so fixed on the idea of being a "girl" without being influenced. Hell, I don't remember thinking about gender one way or the other at 4. What does being a "girl" mean at four? Liking pink and so forth... none of that is built into the brain... but it is caused by influence. There are a plenty of boys at that age that play with dolls, like babies and so forth... and they are still boys and stay boys.
31 posted on 10/17/2009 8:49:19 PM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: GovernmentShrinker

The child needs help, which is the opposite of what they’re giving to him. We can forget the genetic theory, if there was any genetic basis for the boy’s psychosis then the article would have mentioned it. Whatever his problems are they’re all psychological. Furthermore, given the drastic measures taken by the parents I don’t for one second buy that they’re normal parents who tried their best to help their son get over his identity issues. There’s a lot more going on that we don’t know, and given the very PCness of the whole topic I doubt we ever will.


32 posted on 10/17/2009 8:56:22 PM PDT by eclecticEel (The Most High rules in the kingdom of men ... and sets over it the basest of men.)
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To: GeronL
UK society is sick since it rejected Christianity. Islam wants to “cure” that sickness.

Even Islam might be an improvement in the UK when this sort of child abuse is occurring.

33 posted on 10/17/2009 9:13:06 PM PDT by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: eclecticEel
Well, beyond genetic issues that can be brain structure difference caused by hormonal issues during gestation.... so there is still a possibility of this being genuine.

However, the article doesn't mention any attempt to provide therapy to the child to get past his gender identity issues. That should have been at least tried.

My theory of what could possibly be occurring is this. As a 4 year old, he liked some things that were normally considered "girlish"... but aren't really. But other kids or parent made comments about those interests, said they were girls things. At this point the child thinks... ok... I like dolls and babies ... and since these things are called girl things.... I must be a girl. That could continue to escalate over the years... until the child was convinced of it.

Its possible the child is confused about interests and gender labels. And of course, it could all be a very real biological issue. Just a little young to know for sure.

I don't like sports, football bores the hell out of me, I like to cook, I am a clean freak, I love kids, I like live theater and museums, I'm shy as heck and so forth. Yet, amazingly enough... I'm not gay. Got called gay a lot in school, F'em. I got to practice my fighting skills a lot. Won some, lost some.

But, I find women sexy as hell. Not a drop of homosexuality in me. Some people just don't fit the typical stereotypes. But when we start attaching labels for what a person of a certain gender should like... we make stupid mistakes like what could be happening here.
34 posted on 10/17/2009 9:15:47 PM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: Tijeras_Slim
Suicide by 30.

Hopefully, he'll kill those that mutilated him before that happens.

35 posted on 10/17/2009 9:17:01 PM PDT by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: Ol' Sparky

Islam is pretty abusive to children to children too.


36 posted on 10/17/2009 9:17:53 PM PDT by GeronL (They Made It Happen On Purpose Economically. MIHOPE)
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To: StolarStorm; eclecticEel

Chromosome testing doesn’t tell the whole story. There are a lot of genetic anomalies that can cause physical and/or psychological mismatches between anatomy and personality. Most involve enzyme defects or deficiencies or defects in the hormone receptors in cell membranes. For example, 5-alpha-reductase deficiency, which is very common in the Dominican Republic, manifests as anatomy that appears anywhere from entirely female-looking to utterly ambiguous from birth to puberty, at which point major masculinization occurs, including the descent of testicles in many cases. Chromosome testing will show that their entire body is normal with 46 chromosomes including an X and a Y, though many of them looked like normal females until they hit puberty.

There are a number of other known genetic anomalies affecting gender that are much more subtle, but still identifiable through DNA testing or testing for enzyme function (but not through simple chromosome testing). But it’s absolutely certain that there are a lot of these anomalies that haven’t been pinpointed on the genome yet, therefore you can’t do a DNA test for them, because you don’t know what error in genetic code you’re looking for. And there is no direct testing available yet for receptor defects. Some of them can be detected by inference (e.g. giving an effeminate male huge doses of dihydrotestosterone, and seeing no effect), but not detected directly by biopsy of cell membranes or DNA testing. But you can be sure that many of these currently un-pinpointable physiological defects will be pinpointable within a few years, as biomedical technology keeps leaping forward.

Frankly, we just don’t know what’s wrong with this child. But she has nice sane parents, who were raising her in a nice normal family on a American military base, and the kid was just not developing a male identity like all the other little boys. These aren’t whackjobs like the balloon kid’s parents. We need to trust that they and their doctors are doing the best they can with a difficult medical issue. They tried for years to convince Josie that she was Joseph, a little boy, and it just wasn’t working. Both Josie and her parents have some serious challenges ahead of them, and some compassion is in order.


37 posted on 10/17/2009 9:18:01 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: Soothesayer9
They cant fool God.

Is Caster Semenya a boy or a girl? Sometimes, god doesn't seem to make up Her mind.
38 posted on 10/17/2009 9:21:38 PM PDT by Phileleutherus Franciscus
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To: Free ThinkerNY; MeekOneGOP; Conspiracy Guy; DocRock; King Prout; Darksheare; OSHA; martin_fierro; ..
1. Despite this story appearing in a UK paper, the Romero family is American. G-d have mercy on us all.

2. Everyone involved with story (the poor kid excepted) needs a brain transplant or a horsewhipping. Or both.


39 posted on 10/17/2009 10:17:16 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows ("When France chides you for appeasement, you know you're scraping bottom." --Charles Krauthammer)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

I played Little League football, raced dirtbikes, loved Star Wars action figures and would use my dolls that relative seemed intent on giving clothing to dress up our little dog.

I am a perfectly fine adult female who loves my husband. Even though I never identified with girls or girl things, that didn’t mean I wanted or thought I was a boy.

That being said, they are discovering now that some people are born with a chromosome disorder that makes them sort of hermaphrodites or something. I suppose it is POSSIBLE to be outwardly a male and have an extra chromosome or something.


40 posted on 10/17/2009 10:31:17 PM PDT by autumnraine (You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
Probably a hormonal imbalance in utero.

Still, I hope the kid doesn't end up like this:

Cheers!

41 posted on 10/17/2009 10:31:36 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: TexasCajun

Actually, I’d be curious of a chromosome test for him. Tula, an English model, had a chromosome disorder that gave him/her an extra one and boy does she look better as a woman.


42 posted on 10/17/2009 10:33:08 PM PDT by autumnraine (You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out!)
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To: Bender2

Post #31 might interest you. ;-)


43 posted on 10/18/2009 12:17:32 AM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps !"~~)
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To: fieldmarshaldj; StolarStorm; Allegra; big'ol_freeper; Lil'freeper; TrueKnightGalahad; blackie; ...
Re: My 5 year old has been insisting that he's a robot for years

When I was a kid... I once thought I was human but it was only a batch... of bad beer.

I occasionally like to feel my famine side... especially if it get me free drinks!

At the bar last night... that was YOU?

I keep all my chicks so satisfied... they never feel like roosters.

I occasionally feel like a woman... especially with a side order of red cabbage.

My kid brother kept saying he was really a girl... but he stopped after I shot his big toe off.

And imagine that Shatner told me... I was crazy for feeling that way!

Ever time my doc... gets out his glove, I wish... I was a girl!

Clyde once said he thought he was a girl... but after I dropped him in the male gorilla cage for a night, he stopped all that crap.

Me and my Deadskin Tribe... all wish we were squaws!

If I were a woman... what would I do with my steel balls?

One of my writers said they wanted to be a woman... but after a night of wild sex with me, he went back to being a just funny looking guy.

Looks like I picked the wrong day to give up sniffing glue... and wanting a sex change operation!

Ya know, in Spain, when a I feel like a woman... I just get an extra hooker.

John, George and Ringo all felt like we were really a girl band... but they stopped it when I suggest we call ourselves "Paula and the Pussycats!"

Any you blokes out there want to be woman... I can make that happen!

Ya know big... threads like this makes me feel sad for you humans.

It makes me wish... I were drunker--

And with a big batch... of donuts!

44 posted on 10/18/2009 5:06:35 AM PDT by Bender2 ("I've got a twisted sense of humor, and everything amuses me." RAH Beyond this Horizon)
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To: Bender2
Speaking of donuts, just where is the Dunkin Donuts?
I need some to go with my beer today.
45 posted on 10/18/2009 5:42:25 AM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: big'ol_freeper
Re: Speaking of donuts, just where is the Dunkin Donuts? I need some to go with my beer today.

Gadzooks, big! Just ask your gal pal sitting... behind you!

46 posted on 10/18/2009 5:54:35 AM PDT by Bender2 ("I've got a twisted sense of humor, and everything amuses me." RAH Beyond this Horizon)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
Why is it that feminists decry the fact that little girls are forced into gender roles like wearing dresses, being made to play with dolls, etc., but when it's a little boy getting feminized, they think it's a swell thing?

Anyway, no way that little boy can grow up to live a normal life. Girls can be tomboys but ultimately, they grow into women. Boys can be sissies but ultimately, they must contend with the fact they they grow into a man's body.

Nobody says a woman can't grow up to be a construction work or a boy can't grow up to be a nurse. So it's best to be who you are and learn to live with the body nature gave you.

Nobody at the age of eight years old is mature enough to decide one's sex and the parents shouldn't be doing it either. I know when I was eight years old, I wanted to become an astronaut. However there weren't adults around who indulged me by putting me on a spacecraft and sending me into space just because that's "what I wanted to do." I was simply told that once I grew up, I could do whatever I wanted but I couldn't do it right now.

Had the parents taken a harder line with their son over this nonsense, it's very likely he would have grown out of this phase and gone on to a more normal life. Hell, I remember playing with my sister when I was that age, dolls and all that crap. At that age, you simply aren't old enough to fully understand gender and sex. The parents should have raised this kid as the boy he was born as and let him make those kind of decisions for himself when he became of age.

47 posted on 10/18/2009 6:01:42 AM PDT by SamAdams76 (I am 13 days away from outliving Laura Branigan)
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To: martin_fierro
"She'll" probably grow up to ba a famous model. They're often androgoneous.


48 posted on 10/18/2009 8:01:13 AM PDT by bannie
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To: StolarStorm

You are so right! A lot of this is culturally driven and an interest in “pink things” doesn’t necessarily indicate a female gender identity. The parents would be much better off to let the kid explore that aspect of his personality - which he’ll probably grow out of eventually. At any rate, to make radical changes at this age would be deadly!

~*


49 posted on 10/18/2009 8:06:09 AM PDT by virginiaspook1
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To: xpealidocious

It is possible that the child is intersexed. There are medical tests for that. This appears more like gender dysphoria though. As mentioned before, so many of these things are culturally driven. The child is way too young to make that kind of determination! If he is physically intersexed, that would be obvious.

~*


50 posted on 10/18/2009 8:09:06 AM PDT by virginiaspook1
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