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Redskins ban critics, signs at FEDEX field
Washington Post ^ | 10.28.09 | Dan Steinberg

Posted on 10/28/2009 11:24:29 AM PDT by meandog

No signs, no radio interviews, no criticism of team is allowed at FedEx Field.

(Excerpt) Read more at voices.washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Sports
KEYWORDS: chat; freedom; nfl; redskins; sign; sports

Okay, this might go to the heart of libertarian vs. conservative philosophy. It could be argued that the team, having the game on its own property, can set the rules regarding, signs and speech. But, I contend, that even though it has certain property rights regarding decency issues, etc., its banning of speech, signs, etc., is out of bounds when it charges the public a price to come into its property. IOW, you pay your ticket you can express your displeasure with a banner about the way the team plays as well as saying "hello" to a soldier-husband fighting a war against freedom.

1 posted on 10/28/2009 11:24:30 AM PDT by meandog
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To: meandog
no criticism of team is allowed at FedEx Field.

Gonna be a real quiet Sunday...

2 posted on 10/28/2009 11:26:42 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: meandog

You’re right, and this kind of restriction on free speech always backfires and will generate even more criticism of this team.


3 posted on 10/28/2009 11:27:23 AM PDT by your local physicist (If the Canadians and Brazilians can drill for oil off their Atlantic coast, why can't we?)
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To: meandog

I really wish Snyder would sell the team. We don’t want you owning the Redskins Dan.


4 posted on 10/28/2009 11:27:34 AM PDT by east1234 (It's the borders stupid! My new environmentalist inspired tagline: cut, kill, dig and drill)
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To: All
How do you keep a Redskin out of your yard? (you put up goal posts).

What's the dif between a dollar bill and a 'Skin? (you can get 4 quarters out of a dollar bill)

How is the American opposum similar to the Redskins? (A possum can play dead at home and gets killed on the road).

What do you call a 'Skin with a Super Bowl ring? (A senior citizen!)

5 posted on 10/28/2009 11:28:47 AM PDT by meandog (Is OWEbummer the antichrist?)
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To: meandog

Oh, did ooo poor Redskins get ooo feelings hurt?

Join the humility club of Raiders and Lions fans.


6 posted on 10/28/2009 11:30:38 AM PDT by fredhead (Liberals think globally, reason rectally, act idiotically.)
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To: meandog
The National Facsist League fumbles another one.

Watch the College Game instead.....at least the College Game is still a GAME.....and a lot more fun, unlike the No Fun League [NFL]..

7 posted on 10/28/2009 11:31:28 AM PDT by cookcounty (Obama: ---Despiser of the Honduran Constitution and contemptuous of ours.)
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To: meandog

Very impressive!


8 posted on 10/28/2009 11:31:36 AM PDT by rod1
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To: meandog

Does Snyder own FedEx field? I thought the good citizens of Maryland paid for it? I guess it comes down to how to treat FedEx field? Is it the same say as a restaurant where the propertier can impose dress codes, etc or more in the realm of a public space.


9 posted on 10/28/2009 11:31:50 AM PDT by C19fan
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To: C19fan
Does Snyder own FedEx field? I thought the good citizens of Maryland paid for it? I guess it comes down to how to treat FedEx field? Is it the same say as a restaurant where the propertier can impose dress codes, etc or more in the realm of a public space.

Come to think of it, THEY DID. Maryland taxpayers and lottery players OWN the field!

10 posted on 10/28/2009 11:34:17 AM PDT by meandog (Is OWEbummer the antichrist?)
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To: meandog

I have to give credit to Skins fans. They are not putting up with a medicore product. I lived out in Nor Cal and the Raiders have been even worse than the Skins but I never saw the type of vitrol from Raider fans towards the team and Al Davis as one sees with Skins fan towards Snyder and the current crappy team.


11 posted on 10/28/2009 11:34:36 AM PDT by C19fan
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To: C19fan
I have to give credit to Skins fans. They are not putting up with a medicore product. I lived out in Nor Cal and the Raiders have been even worse than the Skins but I never saw the type of vitrol from Raider fans towards the team and Al Davis as one sees with Skins fan towards Snyder and the current crappy team.

Anytime Davis gets a push back he just moves the team...from Oakland to L.A., to Oakland, to L.A. etc...

12 posted on 10/28/2009 11:37:35 AM PDT by meandog (Is OWEbummer the antichrist?)
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To: meandog
Where do the Redskins rank amongst all sports franchises in earnings? Merch sales?
13 posted on 10/28/2009 11:43:10 AM PDT by mbarker12474 (If thine enemy offend thee, give his childe a drum.)
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To: fredhead

Im so humiliated. I cry tears of Honolulu blue and silver.


14 posted on 10/28/2009 11:43:54 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (FreepMail me if you want on the Bourbon ping list!)
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To: fredhead

You forgot the St. Louis Lambs and Bucs. Go Cowboys!


15 posted on 10/28/2009 11:48:46 AM PDT by VA_Gentleman (Everybody says they have a plan, until they get punched in the face. - Mike Tyson)
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To: meandog

“Okay, this might go to the heart of libertarian vs. conservative philosophy”

No, it doesn’t.


16 posted on 10/28/2009 11:50:39 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: meandog

I thought Dan Snyder owned Fed Ex Field. I thought that the late owner Jack Kent Cooke built it with his own money. I thought the state of Maryland built some roads and did some other related work. But I thought Snyder bought the team and the stadium as part of his buying the Redskins from the estate of Cooke.

Legalities aside though, fans everywhere have booed their home team when the fans feel like it.

So even if they can legally ban protest signs and all that, it might backfire on them.


17 posted on 10/28/2009 11:57:16 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: Tublecane
“Okay, this might go to the heart of libertarian vs. conservative philosophy” No, it doesn’t.

What, you're not going to argue "private property rights?"

18 posted on 10/28/2009 12:00:18 PM PDT by meandog (Is OWEbummer the antichrist?)
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To: meandog
No signs,..  I attended a Dodger game toward the end of the season this year.  We had some of the best seats I've ever used at the stadium.  We were behind home place in about the 15th row.  The view was amazing.

Toward the seventh inning, people farther back started moving up.  We had some people sit in the seats right in front of us.  They had what were small signs.  From that point on we weren't able to see much of the game.  We saw the back side of those small signs really well.

...no radio interviews,...  If I owned a stadium, I wouldn't allow a media team in to specifically do a negative story about the team.  If it was the local news station talking to players and current difficulties, I would.  If it was a crew wanting to come in and cover some negative story up close and personal, I wouldn't.

...no criticism of team is allowed at FedEx Field.  Individual fans will criticize the manager, individual players, and the team.  You can't stop that.  Doing it from a media standpoint probably won't be allowed.  I have no problem with that.

If you had a business, would you allow a media team in to trash your operation?  I would certainly hope not.

19 posted on 10/28/2009 12:01:23 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Deficit spending, trade deficits, unsecure mortages, worthless paper... ... not a problem. Oh yeah?)
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To: DoughtyOne
The difference being the team charges the public to come into its property thereby not exactly keeping it longer private property (which incidentally was subsidized by taxpayers, toll road and bridge users and lottery purchasers).
20 posted on 10/28/2009 12:07:15 PM PDT by meandog (Is OWEbummer the antichrist?)
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To: Izzy Dunne

So if fans boo, will they be ejected...or shot?


21 posted on 10/28/2009 12:09:20 PM PDT by Oldpuppymax (AGENDA OF THE LEFT EXPOSED)
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To: meandog

“What, you’re not going to argue ‘private property rights?’”

Of course I would. But both conservatives and libertarians would, I imagine. Except for the issues arising out of who really owns the field if in fact it was built with public funds, which admittedly didn’t enter my mind, this is not a political issue. It’s not even a philosophical issue. It’s a matter of business ethics and business strategy, and for lack of a better term manners.

The public subsidy issue could split conservatives and libertarians. Private suspension of free speech? Not really.


22 posted on 10/28/2009 12:10:07 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: meandog

“The difference being the team charges the public to come into its property thereby not exactly keeping it longer private property”

So if I invite someone to my house for dinner, I can’t throw him out if I don’t like what he says?


23 posted on 10/28/2009 12:12:04 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Tublecane
So if I invite someone to my house for dinner, I can’t throw him out if I don’t like what he says?

If you were charged him for the meal in your home (that was helped financed by him) and he told you it sucked, would you feel the same way?

24 posted on 10/28/2009 12:15:05 PM PDT by meandog (Is OWEbummer the antichrist?)
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To: meandog

I believe I made it clear that I realize the fans will do what they will. As for signs though, one man’s sign is another man’s blind-fold.

You mention that folks pay fees. Do you think those folks should have to look at the back of signs after paying those fees?

I take a very dim view of the public having to pay taxes, toll road fees, or bridge toll fees to finance these stadiums. If the stadiums are a good idea, they should pay for themselves. Otherwise they are a bad idea.


25 posted on 10/28/2009 12:17:17 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Deficit spending, trade deficits, unsecure mortages, worthless paper... ... not a problem. Oh yeah?)
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To: Tublecane
Of course I would. But both conservatives and libertarians would, I imagine. Except for the issues arising out of who really owns the field if in fact it was built with public funds, which admittedly didn’t enter my mind, this is not a political issue. It’s not even a philosophical issue. It’s a matter of business ethics and business strategy, and for lack of a better term manners. The public subsidy issue could split conservatives and libertarians. Private suspension of free speech? Not really.

Well, I see it as suspension of free speech. I do not, however, see speech as being unbridled privilege (crowded theater, limits of decency, etc.). The team certainly has the right to banish signs infringing on other spectators' rights to enjoy the game; it has the right to remove obscene signs as well. But, to restrict ALL criticism of the team as well as one tiny sign wishing a hello to a soldier in Afghanistan; well, that is where I draw the line as a libertarian.

26 posted on 10/28/2009 12:22:13 PM PDT by meandog (Is OWEbummer the antichrist?)
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To: meandog

Heard about this on ESPN radio in Philly this morning. NO WAY would a Philadelphian accept this edict! :-)

Since it’s called the FED-EX field, maybe a call/email campaign to that company might help catch the ear of the Redskin ownership. What about complaints to the other corporate sponsors of the team & field. How about folks lining the perimeter, off the parking lot, with duct tape over their mouths, and HUGE signs. Or organize a boycott of a few games.


27 posted on 10/28/2009 12:22:54 PM PDT by JoyjoyfromNJ (Psalm 121)
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To: VA_Gentleman
You forgot the St. Louis Lambs and Bucs. Go Cowboys!

Yeah, I'm a long suffering Rams fan. Our last win was over a year ago, against some expansion team called the Cowboys. The Rams whupped them 34-14. One of the few teams the Rams have beaten in its last TWO meetings. Because the Cowboys got smashed by a team that would go 2-14, they missed the playoffs. It seems their fans are always talking about the Cowboys going to the Super Bowl. 1995-1996 was a long time ago, even longer than 1999-2000.
28 posted on 10/28/2009 12:33:45 PM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: meandog

“If you were charged him for the meal in your home (that was helped financed by him) and he told you it sucked, would you feel the same way?”

It’d still be my house, and I’d still have the right to kick people out, I hope. Restaurants refuse service all the time, even though their guests pay.

Who built the stadium makes a difference. But I’m sure if the Redskins don’t own the field, they pay to control it during their events, and they ought to be able to reserve the right to refuse service to people who don’t abide by their wishes.

We have to be very, very careful with this extension of government authority/responsibility with government money. Protecting free speech seems fine, but what’s next, cutting Jason Campbell’s bonuses?


29 posted on 10/28/2009 12:34:42 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: meandog

“Well, I see it as suspension of free speech.”

Mst conservatives and libertarians alike don’t believe in any such thing as a right to self-expression when it comes to private authority. It’s more a matter of propriety, respect, and, like I said, manners. To use the phrase “free speech,” I think, is out of line. That phrase is associated with politics, and this is not at heart a political issue.

“But, to restrict ALL criticism of the team as well as one tiny sign wishing a hello to a soldier in Afghanistan; well, that is where I draw the line as a libertarian.”

You may be drawing the line as a man, but as a libertarian? Either you’re expressing an opinion which could just as easily be made by a conservative, a liberal, or a libertine (that is, the propriety claim), or you’re saying the government should step in and restrict the team from regulating its fans’ speech, in which case you’re not being what I’d call a libertarian. Holding up signs at an NFL game isn’t exactly a unalienable right. It’s a privilege, and most all libertarians would see it that way.


30 posted on 10/28/2009 12:45:23 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Tublecane
And way back a long time ago, a stadium (theater, etc.) could toss you if you even “booed” a performance. That's changed since so many people now express their feelings in public settings when they pay to be entertained yet feel short-changed. Me, I'm a free speech libertarian as long as “speech” doesn't cross the line of long cherished values regarding protection of lives and (in certain cases) obscenity.
31 posted on 10/28/2009 12:47:18 PM PDT by meandog (Is OWEbummer the antichrist?)
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To: Tublecane
Mst conservatives and libertarians alike don’t believe in any such thing as a right to self-expression when it comes to private authority. It’s more a matter of propriety, respect, and, like I said, manners. To use the phrase “free speech,” I think, is out of line. That phrase is associated with politics, and this is not at heart a political issue. “But, to restrict ALL criticism of the team as well as one tiny sign wishing a hello to a soldier in Afghanistan; well, that is where I draw the line as a libertarian.” You may be drawing the line as a man, but as a libertarian? Either you’re expressing an opinion which could just as easily be made by a conservative, a liberal, or a libertine (that is, the propriety claim), or you’re saying the government should step in and restrict the team from regulating its fans’ speech, in which case you’re not being what I’d call a libertarian. Holding up signs at an NFL game isn’t exactly a unalienable right. It’s a privilege, and most all libertarians would see it that way.

Well, I suppose, I don't fit in your category of "most" then because I support freedom of expression in public settings--such as when Bubba Clinton came calling to deliver a speech at the Vietnam Memorial, Freepers at the Capitol back in '99 (I was there), the nutty and obnoxious Rev. Phelps, even the KKK in Stokie Ill., as well as manger scenes, 10 commandment proclamations, etc. You'll find me criticizing disrespect as out of place (even Joe Willson's "You Lie" truth) but stalwart in supporting a right to do it!

32 posted on 10/28/2009 1:03:24 PM PDT by meandog (Is OWEbummer the antichrist?)
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To: meandog
Do you know why Jerry Jones and his partners shelled out 1.2 billion for that state of the art stadium, they call "Jerry's Palace"...?

Because they discovered that only around seven percent of Football fans have actually attended an NFL game.

And that paltry number is going to drop even further as HD flat screen televisions continue to improve and become even more affordable.

At least Jones thoroughly grasps that owners are in a quandary and need to give fans every possible incentive to attend NFL games.

This simply gives 'Skins fans one more reason to stay the hell away from FedEx Field.

33 posted on 10/28/2009 1:03:42 PM PDT by Cyropaedia ("Virtue cannot separate itself from reality without becoming a principal of evil...".)
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To: Tublecane

One Sunday afternoon, a guy walks into a bar with his pet dog. The bartender said, “Sorry, pal. No pets allowed.”

The man replied, “This is a special dog. Turn on the Skins game and you’ll see.”

The bartender, anxious to see what will happen, turned on the game.

The guy said, “Watch. Whenever the Skins score, my dog does flips.” The Skins score a field goal and the dog keeps flipping and jumping.

“Wow! That’s one hell of a dog you got there. What happens when the Skins score a touchdown?” asked the bartender.

The man replied, “I don’t know. I’ve only had him for a year.”



34 posted on 10/28/2009 1:05:59 PM PDT by CJ Wolf
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To: Dr. Sivana

Ah yes, your Lambs did beat our team last year with Brad Johnson at the helm. Congratulations. I hope you enjoyed both of your victories last year as it looks like the Lambs may not get any this season, although they do face Detroit this weekend. And yes, the Lambs do have a more recent Super Bowl Victory than America’s team, but I’ll enjoy our five super bowl titles to your one any day. Cheers.


35 posted on 10/28/2009 1:07:40 PM PDT by VA_Gentleman (Everybody says they have a plan, until they get punched in the face. - Mike Tyson)
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To: VA_Gentleman
And yes, the Lambs do have a more recent Super Bowl Victory than America’s team, but I’ll enjoy our five super bowl titles to your one any day.

An expansion team cannot qualify for the title, America's Team.
36 posted on 10/28/2009 1:28:19 PM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: meandog; Allegra; big'ol_freeper; Lil'freeper; TrueKnightGalahad; blackie; Larry Lucido; ...
Re: Redskins ban critics, signs at FEDEX field

Guess I'll pass... on season tickets--

37 posted on 10/28/2009 1:37:04 PM PDT by Bender2 ("I've got a twisted sense of humor, and everything amuses me." RAH Beyond this Horizon)
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To: your local physicist
You’re right, and this kind of restriction on free speech always backfires and will generate even more criticism of this team.

Just ask George Steinbrenner, who tried similar restrictions during the Yankees' weird years of the 1980s. Including, among other things, having thrown out of the ballpark a Banner Day parade participant who costumed himself as a monk and carried a Grim Reaper's blade from which dangled the sign, FORGIVE HIM, FATHER, FOR HE KNOWS NOT WHAT HE DOES.

And, having Yankee Stadium security forces try to purge from the park fans chanting STEINBRENNER SUCKS! STEINBRENNER SUCKS! in the same years.

Not that Steinbrenner didn't learn his lessons. I'll always praise the man for what he did when Yankee personnel tried getting the party quashed when the Red Sox finished that stupefying comeback to win the 2004 pennant. "No," Steinbrenner replied. "They earned it. Let them have their fun."

Say what you will about the man but that one took class.

38 posted on 10/28/2009 1:44:50 PM PDT by BluesDuke (A bird in the hand . . . is worth Thanksgiving drumsticks!)
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To: meandog
But, I contend, that even though it has certain property rights regarding decency issues, etc., its banning of speech, signs, etc., is out of bounds when it charges the public a price to come into its property.

Not only that, but if FedEx Field is like most NFL stadia, the taxpayers are funding part of it anyway.

39 posted on 10/28/2009 2:10:31 PM PDT by Allegra (It doesn't matter what this tagline says...the liberals are going to call it "racist.")
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To: Allegra

“Fags” ;)


40 posted on 10/28/2009 2:19:24 PM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: meandog

Skins fans gotta do what a Jints fan did years ago, hire a plane to tow a banner over the stadium.


41 posted on 10/28/2009 2:39:57 PM PDT by Roccus (My anger is manufactured.......................................in the WHITE HOUSE and CONGRESS!!)
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