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Female Fighter Pilots Forbidden
Strategy Page ^ | November 19, 2009

Posted on 11/22/2009 4:17:25 AM PST by myknowledge

The Indian Air Force does not plan to train women to be fighter pilots. Neighboring Pakistan is not much better, even though it has seven female fighter pilots. They fly F-7s, a Chinese version of the Russian MiG-21. None have been in combat yet, despite the heavy use of jet fighter-bombers in nearly a year of fighting in the tribal territories. There, the more modern F-16s are doing most of the bombing of Taliban targets. The Indian air force leaders believe that it costs so much (over $2 million) to train a fighter pilot, that they air force needs 10-15 years of active service to get that investment back. But women tend to leave the air force to have children, thus making them much more expensive fighter pilots than their male counterparts. So the Indian leadership is holding off on female fighter pilots.

Women flying Pakistani F-7s are a very recent development, part of a program that only began six years ago. Pakistan is not alone using women as fighter pilots, with China graduating its first 16 female fighter pilots this year. There are already 52 women flying non-combat aircraft, and another 545 in training. India has female military pilots, who only operate helicopters and transports.

All this began with the success of female military pilots in the United States over the last three decades. This led to an increasing number of other countries are moving in that direction. The reason is simple, many of the women who go through flight training turn out to have better flying skills than the average male pilot.

All the nations considering female fighter pilots, are having a hard time keeping male pilots in uniform. Too many of the men depart for more lucrative, and less stressful, careers as commercial pilots. Women may not be the solution. Currently, only about half of Indian female officers stay in past their initial five year contract. Indian women, even military pilots, are under tremendous social and family pressure to marry. Those that do may still be pilots, but married women expected to have children. The Indian Air Force provides its female officers with ten months leave for this, six months during pregnancy, and four months after delivery. The air force does all this because pilots are very expensive to train. Fuel costs the same everywhere, as are spare parts. So what India may save in lower salaries, is not enough. A good pilot costs over half a million dollars for training expenses, and requires over five years flying experience to become effective in a first line fighter (the Su-30 for India). It's all that expensive aviation fuel that pushes the final "cost of a fighter pilot" to over $2 million. Many women are willing to take up the challenge. But they have already heard from their peers in Western air force, that motherhood and piloting can be a very exhausting combination.

Worldwide, women are increasingly part of the military. In many nations, over ten percent of military personnel are female. A century ago, it was under one percent (and most of those were nurses and other medical personnel.) More women are in uniform now because there aren't enough qualified men, especially for many of the technical jobs armed forces now have to deal with.

Islamic nations have higher illiteracy rates overall, and very high rates for women. These nations have a severe shortage of technically trained people. Those women that do get an education in Islamic cultures tend to be very bright and able. So there's a need, and a solution close at hand. But because of those religious restrictions, and the generally very macho attitudes in Islamic nations, there will never be as many women in uniform as are needed. This means that Islamic armed forces will continue to come up short when it comes to maintaining and using military technology. The future of military operations is more technology, so you can see where this is leading. No wonder Islamic radicals want to go back to the past. Unfortunately, the non-Moslem world is not inclined to join them. Taking a knife to a gun fight doesn't work.

Allowing women to be combat pilots eventually leads to women commanding combat units. Once women were allowed to fly combat aircraft, it was only a matter of time before some of them rose to command positions. Several American female combat pilots have achieved command positions, and also managed to handle marriage and motherhood as well.


TOPICS: Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: militarywomen; womenfighterpilots

Women fighter pilots: You go, girls!!!

1 posted on 11/22/2009 4:17:28 AM PST by myknowledge
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To: myknowledge
many of the women who go through flight training turn out to have better flying skills than the average male pilot.

If men and women are on average equally skilled at flying, 50% of the women will be better than the average male pilot.

I hate sentences like this.

2 posted on 11/22/2009 4:26:20 AM PST by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: myknowledge

Forbidden? Forbidden WHERE?

I read the article.
Forbidden WHERE?

I wish hack writers were forbidden.


3 posted on 11/22/2009 4:28:46 AM PST by djf (Maybe life ain't about the doing - maybe it's just the trying... Hey, I don't make the rules!)
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To: djf

Forbidden in India. The Indian Air Force may be a top-rate air force, but is reluctant to employ female fighter jocks.


4 posted on 11/22/2009 4:31:25 AM PST by myknowledge (F-22 Raptor: World's Largest Distributor of Sukhoi parts!)
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To: myknowledge

It says they are “holding off”...

That’s not the same as “forbidden”.

Sorry. It just seems to me the title is written more for invoking hysteria than a clear description of the situation.


5 posted on 11/22/2009 4:34:24 AM PST by djf (Maybe life ain't about the doing - maybe it's just the trying... Hey, I don't make the rules!)
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To: myknowledge

As an ex-fighter pilot, I can attest to the fact that women can fly as well as men; however, they are terrible at throwing their glasses into the fireplace at the O’Club during Happy Hour.


6 posted on 11/22/2009 4:36:12 AM PST by JoeGar
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To: myknowledge

A fighter pilot’s breadfast: a cigarette, a cup of coffee, and a good puke. Women just don’t handle it as well as men.


7 posted on 11/22/2009 4:38:15 AM PST by JoeGar
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To: JoeGar

“What really makes a good fighter pilot” - Another study that will never be funded due to PC considerations.


8 posted on 11/22/2009 4:53:16 AM PST by PLMerite (Ride to the sound of the Guns - I'll probably need help.)
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To: Sherman Logan

50% is many of them.


9 posted on 11/22/2009 5:09:41 AM PST by omega4179 (0 is an embarrassment to us all.)
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To: JoeGar
I thought a fighter pilot's stimulant was steroids, you know, to increase his stamina and physical strength in a violent high-G dogfight.
10 posted on 11/22/2009 5:11:02 AM PST by myknowledge (F-22 Raptor: World's Largest Distributor of Sukhoi parts!)
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To: omega4179

Quite correct. My point.

But the implication of the sentence is that “many” female pilots being better than the “average” male pilot is an unexpected result.

In fact, if even 25% of female pilots were better than the average male pilot, this could still be accurately presented as many women being better than the average man. Despite the fact that it would also mean the average (either mean or median) woman is considerably worse than the average man.

My objection is to the misuse of terms to make an intentionally misleading point. The classic is, “Most inner-city blacks (or Muslims, or mentally ill people, etc.) are not dangerous to others.”

This ignores that “most” means 50.1%, which makes the statement technically accurate even if 49.9% of the group in question IS dangerous to others. Which most of us would consider a rather relevant datum.

The relevant question is not whether “most” of a group are dangerous, it’s the relative danger posed by group A as compared to group B. Using the “most” terminology is an intentional effort to blur this distinction.


11 posted on 11/22/2009 5:27:15 AM PST by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: myknowledge
It seems that that the Indians and Pakistanis understand that women pilots are a bad idea. I wish that our military was as astute as they are. I have the luxury of remembering when pilots were all males, which many today do not have. I miss the good ‘ole days. With the direction that the military is going, there may not be a need for pilots in the future, for everything will be unmanned or unwomened. This is usually the direction of most things: men to women to automation.
12 posted on 11/22/2009 5:29:23 AM PST by Nosterrex
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To: myknowledge
Amendment XIV [in part]

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Just a few questions for you concerning the above citation:

Is it equal protection under the law to enforce (on penalty of disciplinary action) on male members of the military, one set of physical requirements and on females, a different set?

Is it equal protection under the law to allow females paid leave for an intentionally self-imposed, combat-excluding disability that requires military medical resources and court martial a male who intentionally self-inflicts a combat-excluding disability?

Is it equal protection under the law to allow, legal-penalty free, females to potentially avoid an unpleasant deployment by engaging in a voluntary activity with a predictable outcome of deployment exclusion and not allow males to voluntary exclude themselves from deployment legal-penalty free?

How about a couple of questions on another basis:

Is it moral or fair to intentionally put women into a situation where they face rape and forced pregnancy in a POW situation?

Given that males (on average) have more upper body strength and endurance (ground combat and survival advantages) than females, is it moral, fair or wise to intentionally put females into potential situations where their lack of these characteristics could cost them their lives?

How about a few questions on the article, itself:

From the article: More women are in uniform now because there aren't enough qualified men, especially for many of the technical jobs armed forces now have to deal with.

Why are there no supporting statistics for this assertion? In most nations, half the population is male. Additionally, in these nations, the proportion of the male population over 17 and under 60 in the military is well under 20% (even in extreme cases). The author’s assertion cited above begs common sense, to wit, 80% of the male population is incapable of handling the technical jobs armed forces now have to deal with. Really? Not only is this conclusion nonsensical, it is insulting to half of the population.

From the article: But because of those religious restrictions, and the generally very macho attitudes in Islamic nations, there will never be as many women in uniform as are needed.

In deed? Exactly what facts say that so many women are needed? Furthermore, what exactly what facts say that men (or enough men) cannot meet these needs?
13 posted on 11/22/2009 5:34:12 AM PST by Lucky Dog
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To: PLMerite
The Indian air force leaders believe that it costs so much (over $2 million) to train a fighter pilot, that they air force needs 10-15 years of active service to get that investment back. But women tend to leave the air force to have children, thus making them much more expensive fighter pilots than their male counterparts. So the Indian leadership is holding off on female fighter pilots.

Just making these types of observations is strictly verboten in the US. Cost analysis is not permitted where gender equality is the issue.

14 posted on 11/22/2009 5:47:45 AM PST by Tallguy ("The sh- t's chess, it ain't checkers!" -- Alonzo (Denzel Washington) in "Training Day")
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To: Nosterrex
It seems that that the Indians and Pakistanis understand that women pilots are a bad idea.

At least the Pakistanis only have a handful of female fighter jocks that could take up half a squadron.

I have the luxury of remembering when pilots were all males, which many today do not have.

The Soviet VVS during WWII had the most female aviators. Two of them even became double aces. Just as capable as their male comrades.

I miss the good ‘ole days.

Now get used to today's world.

15 posted on 11/22/2009 4:26:17 PM PST by myknowledge (F-22 Raptor: World's Largest Distributor of Sukhoi parts!)
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To: Nosterrex
I have the luxury of remembering when pilots were all males...

Don't be scared. They're still the majority in any air force today.

16 posted on 11/23/2009 3:46:13 AM PST by myknowledge (F-22 Raptor: World's Largest Distributor of Sukhoi parts!)
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To: myknowledge
I see that I did not make myself clear. No one has ever stated that women cannot fly an aircraft. You can teach a monkey to fly, especially with today's technology. One of the best female aviators was a German during WW2. The Germans even put her in the nose of a V-1 rocket to find out why the rocket was having stability problems. It almost killed her, but she solved the problem. Eventually, the military will not need any pilots. If you can play a video game, you can fly an unmanned aircraft. The Soviets also used women as snipers during WW2, and a few of them were deadly. There is a difference between can; and should. Can women be military pilots and snipers, yes. Should they, no. We have been very fortunate in that the conflicts that we have fought since Vietnam have been about as difficult as touch football. The Iraqis and Taliban are nothing compared to the Nazis, Japanese, Chinese and Vietcong. This is not to disparage the casualties or sacrifices of those serving in the Gulf Wars or Afghanistan, but most of these casualties have come in attempts to nation build; and not in a combat role. Maybe this country will never have to fight a conventional blood and guts war, and the use of women in the military will never be put to the test. The laws of nature, that men and women are different, can continue to be ignored without cost.
17 posted on 11/23/2009 5:00:08 PM PST by Nosterrex
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To: myknowledge
The Soviet VVS during WWII had the most female aviators.

During the war that created our greatest (American) ace in history with his 40 kills, the German pilots managed to shoot down a few Soviet planes as well, here is a beginning list of WWII's greatest Aces.

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18 posted on 11/23/2009 5:31:14 PM PST by ansel12 (Scozzafava/Romney 2012)
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