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A Global Catastrophic Event Wiped Out Ancient Forests
ICR News ^ | November 7, 2009 | Brian Thomas, M.S.

Posted on 11/22/2009 8:10:55 AM PST by GodGunsGuts

Fungi are single or multi-celled organisms that break down organic materials, such as rotting wood, in order to absorb their nutrients. Neither plant nor animal, they range from mushrooms to single-celled yeast.

Scientists were investigating organic chemicals trapped in an Italian sedimentary rock formation when they found evidence that an extinct fungus feasted on dead wood during a time when the world’s forests had been catastrophically eradicated.[1] What could have caused such a universal effect on forests, and why does organic material remain in rocks that are supposedly 251.4 million years old?...

(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: absolutebs; algae; arthropods; baptist; belongsinreligion; bible; catastrophism; catholic; chitin; christian; christianity; christianright; climatechange; confabulation; creation; crevolist; darwin; darwinism; deforestation; europe; evangelical; evolution; forests; fungi; genesis; genesisflood; geology; globalflood; globalwarming; glogaldeforestation; godsgravesglyphs; insects; intelligentdesign; italy; judaism; lutheran; microfossils; netherlands; noahsflood; notasciencetopic; notscience; origins; permian; permiantriassic; propellerbeanie; protestant; reduviasporonites; religiousright; russia; science; siberia; spammer; us
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1 posted on 11/22/2009 8:10:57 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Good morning GGG. Have you heard about Rifqa Bary? She is imprisoned in solitary confinement in Ohio for the “crime” of converting from islam to Christianity.

http://yumurl.com/aIdHXi


2 posted on 11/22/2009 8:19:22 AM PST by rae4palin
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To: metmom; DaveLoneRanger; editor-surveyor; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; MrB; GourmetDan; Fichori; ...

Ping!


3 posted on 11/22/2009 8:20:21 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: rae4palin

What the heck!


4 posted on 11/22/2009 8:26:28 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

The skeptic in all of us needs to take the publications of Brian Thomas with a very small pinch of salt. He is predisposed to taking a legitimate paper, mining a nugget from it, stating that it then “suggests” an alternate meaning or purpose to the paper and then concluding with a classical “if-then” recitation of his agenda. He is the YEC version of Erich von Däniken.

Then, to our detriment, process is then repeated on Thomas’ article by GGG.


5 posted on 11/22/2009 8:27:10 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: GodGunsGuts
"Scientists were investigating organic chemicals trapped in an Italian sedimentary rock formation when they found evidence that an extinct fungus feasted on dead wood during a time when the world’s forests had been catastrophically eradicated.1 What could have caused such a universal effect on forests, and why does organic material remain in rocks that are supposedly 251.4 million years old?"2

This statement is blatantly false. The artice he is citing does not state that they were investigating “organic” material. Lets just take a look what they really say.

"Researchers had previously been unsure as to whether Reduviasporonites were a type of fungus or algae. By analysing the carbon and nitrogen content of the fossilised remains of the microscopic organisms, the scientists identified them as a type of wood-rotting fungus that would have lived inside dead trees".

Photobucket

6 posted on 11/22/2009 8:27:59 AM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

This Permian Extinction Event was caused by the Siberian Traps volcanic events which were the largest series of volcanoes known about.

An area nearly the size of a small continent was flooded by magma as deep as 4 kms in some places.


7 posted on 11/22/2009 8:28:41 AM PST by JustDoItAlways
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To: Ira_Louvin; GodGunsGuts
"This statement is blatantly false.

It doesn't matter how many times you catch GGG or his dubious sources lying, he is going to ignore the critical comments. He is not the first to believe it is perfectly OK to sin in the name of God.

8 posted on 11/22/2009 8:38:52 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: GodGunsGuts; tang-soo

I met tang-soo at the rally for Rifqa Bary in Columbus, Ohio on Nov 16.

http://yumurl.com/IZCsag


9 posted on 11/22/2009 8:45:50 AM PST by rae4palin
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To: Natural Law
I am not expecting a reply, I point out these “misconceptions” for the benefit of the uninformed who might be swayed by this distortion of the facts.

Photobucket

10 posted on 11/22/2009 8:48:48 AM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: Natural Law

That means a lot coming from a Natural Plagiarizer.


11 posted on 11/22/2009 9:08:47 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Peddling BTMS* lies on Sunday..........have you no shame??


12 posted on 11/22/2009 9:10:16 AM PST by ElectricStrawberry (Didja know that Man walked with 100+ species of large meat eating dinos within the last 4,351 years?)
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To: Ira_Louvin

I have got to go to church. I am not worried in the least, however, because when I return to check into your allegations, I am confident I will find what I always find...that you have no idea what you’re talking about.


13 posted on 11/22/2009 9:10:27 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
"That means a lot coming from a Natural Plagiarizer."

The difference between us is that 100% of what I post is true.

14 posted on 11/22/2009 9:12:38 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: Ira_Louvin
Carbon and nitrogen are not “organic” chemicals?

“The team reached their conclusions by analysing the carbon and nitrogen content of Reduviasporonites using a High Sensitivity Mass Spectrometer and comparing the results with those from modern fungi. They discovered that Reduviasporonites and modern fungi show similar chemical characteristics.” #1 reference.

Duh.

15 posted on 11/22/2009 10:07:08 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
"They discovered that Reduviasporonites and modern fungi show similar chemical characteristics.”

Because if they were radically different they wouldn't both be Reduviasporonites, duh.

16 posted on 11/22/2009 10:33:55 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: count-your-change
The original article states : “By analysing the carbon and nitrogen content of the fossilised remains of the microscopic organisms so no this was not “organic” material, and to state that it was is not supported by the facts

However, nice attempt at setting up the straw man

17 posted on 11/22/2009 11:32:18 AM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: Ira_Louvin
My citation was from “New ancient fungus finding suggests world’s forests were wiped out in global catastrophe”, which was the first reference in the posted article.

So while you think you've found some glaring error or make “blatant lie” slanders and cry ‘strawman’, you show again why it's necessary for me to use very simple words to reply to you.
It's called deliberate obtuseness.

18 posted on 11/22/2009 12:46:50 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Natural Law

“Because if they were radically different they wouldn’t both be Reduviasporonites, duh.”

Or if one, reduviasporontites, was extinct then BOTH wouldn’t be reduviasporonites would they?

So it might really be of interest to compare the chemical characteristics of the two. Do I need to explain further?


19 posted on 11/22/2009 1:17:14 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

“My citation was from “New ancient fungus finding suggests world’s forests were wiped out in global catastrophe”, which was the first reference in the posted article.”

So was the quote in post 17 to which you took issue. That poster was therefore correct in his assessment.


20 posted on 11/22/2009 1:29:47 PM PST by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: GodGunsGuts
"and why does organic material remain in rocks that are supposedly 251.4 million years old?"

Easy! - - Those were sandflea years...

21 posted on 11/22/2009 1:40:59 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: count-your-change
Nice job at avoidance and misdirection…

Let’s go over this from the beginning the author stated:

Scientists were investigating organic chemicals trapped in an Italian sedimentary rock formation when they found evidence that an extinct fungus feasted on dead wood during a time when the world’s forests had been catastrophically eradicated.1 What could have caused such a universal effect on forests, and why does organic material remain in rocks that are supposedly 251.4 million years old?"2

The article he cited did not stated :

By analysing the carbon and nitrogen content of the fossilized remains of the microscopic organisms,

By omitting the fact that these were fossilized the author is being designious by implying that these finding were not in fact fossilized

22 posted on 11/22/2009 1:50:14 PM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: Ira_Louvin
Ira, Ira....You're straining at gnats in claiming error for what was said and what was not said is actually what is being said. Huh?

If you want to rewrite the article, do so and send it in. Then it will have the exact words you think it should have.
In the mean time you might examine the broader meaning of the word “fossil”. (and “designious” too)

23 posted on 11/22/2009 2:09:56 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Ira_Louvin

No Mr. Thomas is deliberately misstating the article to give a false impression.

Now you can try to dance around that and change the subject or try to redefine words but that will not change the facts.


24 posted on 11/22/2009 2:26:54 PM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: count-your-change

No Mr. Thomas is deliberately misstating the article to give a false impression.

Now you can try to dance around that and change the subject or try to redefine words but that will not change the facts.

(oop’s my bad, I hit the wring key)


25 posted on 11/22/2009 2:28:20 PM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: Ira_Louvin

You can keep saying that but that doesn’t make it so and of course nothing you’ve said would indicate it is.

So what is said means something else and what is not said means what you and only you are able to discern.

But will you address the substance of the article? No.
Ira knows what the authors and researchers meant and their intentions no matter what they say. Right.

Don’t stop now, I can’t wait to hear more.


26 posted on 11/22/2009 3:18:34 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Ira_Louvin

And more graphics too. Those are the best part of your comments. Really!


27 posted on 11/22/2009 3:21:09 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Ira_Louvin
"No Mr. Thomas is deliberately misstating the article to give a false impression."

Redundant.

28 posted on 11/22/2009 3:26:16 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: Ira_Louvin; GodGunsGuts
"I am not worried in the least, however, because when I return to check into your allegations, I am confident I will find what I always find...that you have no idea what you’re talking about."

Ira,

The silence of the promised refutation is deafening. GGG doesn't seem to enjoy FR now that the disinfectant of sun light has been shined on his serial confabulations, misrepresentations, and outright lies.

29 posted on 11/22/2009 3:39:10 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: count-your-change
What substance, the entire premise of the article is based on a fallacy?
30 posted on 11/22/2009 3:53:06 PM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: count-your-change
Here you go, I thought you might enjoy this one

Photobucket

31 posted on 11/22/2009 3:58:01 PM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: count-your-change
Here you go, I thought you might enjoy this one

Photobucket

32 posted on 11/22/2009 3:58:08 PM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: Ira_Louvin
well, the artistry isn't too bad, colourful and all that, using the figures for framing shows some familiarity with composition, and imaginative........ but totally pointless.

Oh yes, and a poor substitute for understanding what you’re talking about. Where did you find that thing?

33 posted on 11/22/2009 4:16:33 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

There is this thing called teh photobucket, it works kinda like teh google only with pictures.


34 posted on 11/22/2009 4:20:51 PM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Have any of your antagonists given any tumble to the reason why you post these ICR articles and other similar articles?
35 posted on 11/22/2009 4:21:16 PM PST by YHAOS
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To: Ira_Louvin
Of Photo Bucket I know but don’t care to use it and the illustration is still pointless.
36 posted on 11/22/2009 4:32:09 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Ira_Louvin

That purported fallacy being?


37 posted on 11/22/2009 4:34:30 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: YHAOS
"Have any of your antagonists given any tumble to the reason why you post these ICR articles and other similar articles? "

I can't speak for anyone else but I figure it is to increase the traffic at those sites. He is probably involved in some sort of per click commission scheme.

38 posted on 11/22/2009 5:03:18 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: count-your-change

I have pointed it out to you twice now.
We are not going to play that game.


39 posted on 11/22/2009 5:20:22 PM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: count-your-change

Just like Mr Thomas’s article


40 posted on 11/22/2009 5:25:50 PM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: Ira_Louvin
You should go back and read your own #22 post and check the references of the posted article.
In the one from Geology (10) etc., you would find (caps mine) this sentence on what was found:

“ORGANIC chemistry, carbon and nitrogen isotopes, and carbon/nitrogen ratios are consistent with a fungal origin.”

Then the abstract adds,
“Unequivocally diagnostic data, however, may have been precluded by post-burial replacement of its organic constituents.”,
so the posted article
was correct in repeating what the abstract referred to, “organic “ chemistry though the role of the fungus was not “unequivocally” established.

Using the term “fossil” obviously wasn't intended to mean nothing of the original was left.

41 posted on 11/22/2009 6:02:44 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

The use of the term fossil means that the original had been mineralized or turned into rock, the traces of Carbon and Nitrogen are remnants left over from when the fossil was formed, just like all rocks, say for example granite. Are you saying that granite was once alive since it contains traces of Carbon and Nitrogen?


42 posted on 11/22/2009 6:31:03 PM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: Ira_Louvin; Natural Law; count-your-change; editor-surveyor; tpanther; Agamemnon; metmom; ...
==This statement is blatantly false. The artice he is citing does not state that they were investigating “organic” material. Lets just take a look what they really say.

I'm back, and just as I suspected, all it took was a cursory investigation of your accusation against Brian Thomas (namely, your claim that his characterization of the material in question as organic as "blatantly false") to once again demonstrate that you are reckless, irresponsible, and have no idea what you are talking about.

Unfortunately, we do not have access to the scientific paper that Thomas footnoted as the basis for designating the material in question as organic. And while the article in question does not mention "organic" chemicals by name, it does indeed list (as Count-Your-Change points out repeatedly) organic chemicals. Beyond that, a quick Google search would have brought up repeated references that quoted the authors of the paper Brian Thomas cited as saying the following:

'Organic chemistry, carbon and nitrogen isotopes, and carbon/nitrogen ratios are consistent with a fungal origin,' the study's authors wrote.

http://ec.europa.eu/research/infocentre/article_en.cfm?id=/research/headlines/news/article_09_10_22_en.html&item=Infocentre&artid=13413

I have never known Brian Thomas to tell a lie. And in each and every case where I have taken the time to research your accusations of the same, Brian Thomas has been vindicated every time.

Your baseless, off-the-cuff accusations have become a matter of routine with you, Ira. As such, you are steadily losing credibility in the eyes of the thousands upon thousands of people on both sides of the origins debate who regularly read these posts.

Something to think about.

However, I must say, as clueless as you are, at least you are step up from Natural Law (aka Natural Plagiarizer) as he has demonstrated over and over that he has no qualms about stealing other peoples words and ideas and pretending that they are his own.

43 posted on 11/22/2009 7:02:14 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: YHAOS

...”any tumble”???


44 posted on 11/22/2009 7:03:01 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Ira_Louvin
Again you didn't read what the researchers said. Even when I give their comments word-for-word it appears you cannot understand what they are saying:

“Organic chemistry, carbon and nitrogen isotopes, and carbon/nitrogen ratios are consistent with a fungal origin.”

Not algae, not random mixtures of various chemicals, not granite, not the minerals that came later, but FUNGAL ORIGIN.

IF THE ORGANIC CHEMISTRY FOUND WAS OTHERWISE IT WOULD NOT BE “CONSISTENT WITH A FUNGAL ORIGIN”.

“Scientists were investigating organic chemicals trapped in an Italian sedimentary rock formation when they found evidence that an extinct fungus feasted on dead wood during a time when the world’s forests had been catastrophically eradicated.”

You made this above quote in your post #22 and attempted to show it was erroneous but clearly it was quite correct, the problem being you spoke without reading the references listed, even the easy ones.

So are you “designious”, misleading and dancing around with the granite alive silliness?

Now come on, Ira, your personal dislike of Thomas is making you nit pick when you honestly know you wouldn't do so were that not the case, don't you?

And you're seeing nits that don't exist. That goes way beyond disagreement. that's letting your feeling cloud your comments.

With that I say good night and Cheers!

45 posted on 11/22/2009 7:17:57 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Tumble...explanation, understanding revealed, discovery. A bit o’ Brit slang.


46 posted on 11/22/2009 7:24:12 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

Thanks!


47 posted on 11/22/2009 7:26:39 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Jim Robinson

Hi Jim,

Did you change your mind about Creation/ID articles and papers being allowed to be posted in News? Because, certain mods are back to banishing Creation/ID posts to Gen/Chat.

All the best—GGG


48 posted on 11/22/2009 7:29:46 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
Welcome. It’s an interesting subject, but I don’t think the pay to read papers would expand much beyond the abstracts since much of the debate was of the algae vs. fungus sort.

If I understand what was done it is similar to what I’ve found when buried metal has corroded away in the ground. One can still analyze the soil and find chemicals left behind that are unique to that particular mixture of metals even though traces of each occur naturally all over.
Ir’s not metal any more but neither is it just enriched soil.
Similar, I say, not exactly the same.

49 posted on 11/22/2009 7:40:52 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: YHAOS
==Have any of your antagonists given any tumble to the reason why you post these ICR articles and other similar articles?

Many, many times. The explanations range from my supposedly “weak faith” to I'm a “paid agent” of every Creation and ID organization out there. Indeed, just when I think the evos can't get any more hysterical about my posts, they usually manage to top themselves in short order.

50 posted on 11/22/2009 7:43:25 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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