Skip to comments.Is Mormonism Christian? by Late Richard John Neuhaus
Posted on 11/24/2009 1:46:39 PM PST by Steelfish
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Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment
Mormons are widely considered to be a cult and have been since Mr. Smith created them, the Greek Orthodox, the Catholics, other Christians they all have something to say about Smith’s followers.
“Q: I read recently that the Catholic Church had rejected Mormon baptism, since their view of Christ and the Trinity is so unusual. But I have to ask: Are Mormons considered separated brothers and sisters? While their views are strange to say the least, they are still separated, and we should reach out to them. If we view them as something other than separated, doesn’t that exclude ecumenism? I know that many view them as a cult, but aren’t cult members separated as well?
A: The reason Mormons are not considered separated brethren is not because they aren’t “separated” from the Church-they are-but they aren’t “brethren” in the sense required.
The phrase separated brethren refers to those who, though separated from full communion with the Catholic Church, have been justified through baptism and are thus brethren in Christ. The Decree on Ecumenism (Unitatis Redintegratio) of Vatican II teaches that “all who have been justified by faith in baptism are members of Christ’s body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.”
Because Mormonism is polytheistic and rejects the Trinity, Mormon baptism is not valid, and Mormons are not considered separated brethren. For the same reason, outreach to them, while certainly a good thing, is not ecumenism, though it can include dialogue and social cooperation as well as efforts to evangelize them.”
1. Over 4000 revisions to the “most correct book ever recorded” (BoM).
2. Noone gets to heaven without Joe Smith’s approval.
3. Non-mormons banished to lesser “kingdoms”.
4. Only temple endowed mormons allowed into the Celestial Kingdom.
5. Men can become gods and rule over their own planet.
6. Men get to be polygamous in heaven.
7. Women are to be eternally pregnant bearing “spirit children” for eternity.
8. Jesus “earned” his godhood by doing works.
9. Even the devil gets to heaven (Telestial Kingdom).
10. God resides on the planet Kolob.
I know many mormons, am married to one. Great people, not Christians.
You still haven’t give YOUR answer to the question.
The answer is no, they are not.
All their stuff about the Laminites etc, have no basis in historical fact, Young was a charlatan and to this day, no one that is truly in a position to know, acknowledges “Reformed Egyptian” hieroglyphics to be real.
I’m not here to answer your every personal inquiry, are you here to start answering my personal questions of you? Then answer enough of mine so that I can test your “sincerity”, that should be fun.
If you want to address cults then you should have enough information from two major Christian churches to get to what ever point you want to start hammering, for instance when a guy (named Smith no less) starts a religion that isn’t Christian but then starts trying to sell itself as Christian, would Christian churches agree that it is a cult, it seems they do.
Some of the nicest, most responsible, and most temperate people I have ever met are Mormons.
I can never understand how any really thinking and educated person can hold Mormon beliefs.
“Im not here to answer your every personal inquiry...”
Yet you’ve taken four posts to tell me that. You could have answered the question in one. It’s not a “gotcha” of any kind—I’m merely asking for a clarification of your position. To repeat—you seem to imply that LDS is a cult. Do you personally believe that to be true? I’ll give you my answer: I don’t.
The question is really what example are we Christians giving people of other faiths? If we lived as the first Christians did, we would be on fire with the love of Christ. Our witness would inspire and educate. Our lives would instruct.
One does not convert through criticism; but through example and eloquence.
I think a serious theological and scholarly inquiry into the question is “Mormonisn Christian”? should not be considered a criticism of individual spiritual lives Mormons per se. Questioning their own failure to make this critical inquiry is fair game. Faith without reason is legend and reason without faith confines the intellect to only what is cognitive. Mormonism comes close to the former.
The cult thing seems to bother you a lot, tell us about it.
You’re deflecting. You brought it up, not me. If you’re uncomfortable with your own position, then you shouldn’t raise the issue.
No you seem to be trying to avoid the primary discussion of whether Mormonism is Christian by wanting to get personal in interrogation of posters. I’m not here to get into a personal theological discussion but to point out what the larger view is.
Here is something the Greek Orthodox say about cults.
The prevailing doctrine of past and present cults is the gnostic or secret knowledge to attain salvation or perfection that they alone possess. This is evident in early Gnosticism as well as in the nineteenth-century cults such as Mormonism, Christian Science, Jehovahs Witnesses, spiritualism, theosophy, and many more. Several of these cults offer special welfare services to promote good will and enable them to further their propaganda. Examples of such activities include the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, The Christian Science Monitor, and the Battle Creek Sanitarium of the Seventh Day Adventists.  Through these philanthropic activities, they appear to be harmless to people in order to promote their religious propaganda.
You have plenty of capacity and desire to post the opinions of others, but not your own.
I’m posting a lot of information about the Christian portion and even the cult question, spit out whatever it is that you want to share about cults and quit the time wasting.
Say it man, say it, throw it out there.
I’ve said what I have to say—please reread my posts if you need a refresher. Your posts are ambiguous, though, and I’m seeking clarification. If you don’t want to answer the question, fine. I’m sure I’d be ashamed of the position that I think you hold as well.
There is nothing ambiguous about my posts, when I quote the Greek Orthodox, it is a direct quote, when I quote the Catholic site it is a direct quote.
That post on the Catholic position on Mormon Baptism is taken directly from the Vatican site.
All of your posts seem to be personal, mocking, short, meaningless and irrelevant, frankly you have added zero to this thread other than a kind of troll like interference.
I’m asking for YOUR position, not those of other churches. You’re implying that LDS is a cult, but you won’t state your position directly.
What is YOUR position? Is LDS a cult?
You seem to want to do anything but get on the topic, is Mormonism Christian? Evidently not, if any Catholics here think they are, then this is what the church says. This is from Catholic Answers:
I read this in First Things when it first came out.
Yes, an excellent article. Fr. Neuhaus represented SENSIBLE ecumenicism. Namely, respect other religions, try to work with them, but don’t give up your beliefs in a vain effort to find a least common denominator.
As he says, Christians can certainly work with Mormons, and there is a lot about which we can agree. But there are also basic, fundamental matters of faith about which we disagree, and it’s as well to recognize that.
Yes, I read it too. Fortunately, I had copied it for reference.
This entire show is of your creation. You implied that LDS was a cult. I asked for clarification, and you posted the opinions of other churches on the subject. Why won’t you tell us YOUR position? Is LDS a cult?
Accusations of “troll like distractions” are the refuge of a loser. Will you regain your reputation and shed the image of a loser?
Will you answer the question?
The Mormons have a system that serves themselves very well, although they have a low military enlistment rate, during the draft they also could give out their own deferments.
Mitt Romney himself, son of the prominent Mormon Governor and anti-war Republican Presidential candidate George Romney, was himself enabled by his church to work for his church in France rather than serve the United States as a soldier, of course no Romney man has ever served the United States as a soldier in the entire history of our nation but they have served the Joseph Smith church since they arrived here for that purpose about 20 years before the Civil War.
How’s that Scozzawhatever/Romney tagline these days?
Just curious, did you know what a Democrat she is? Do you STILL support Mitt Healthcare?
I trust you’ve seen the light. It appears you’ve got the right perspective on Mormonism anyway.
Hope you don’t mind a little good natured ribbing.
LOL, Hey, if I can't get Scozzafava/Romney into office to save our great nation then I might just have to kill myself.
Mitt Romney: "I'm not a partisan politician. My hope is that, after this election, it will be the moderates of both parties who will control the Senate, not the Jesse Helmses."
There are great Christians in our family too. We have Methodists and Baptists, a few Catholics. We generally get along just fine. I am sure that if push came to shove the Baptists would not think the Catholics are on the right track either.
I have had great experiences with the Protestants and the Catholics.. The born agains would not let my daughter into their school, but the Catholics were very accepting. Every group has it’s doctrine. I have never had the abuse from the family members. They are pretty good sports about the LDS doctrinal differences. If you like abuse, freerepublic can dish it out.
I still like coming here for the politics. We have so many things in common with the posters here.
I can see the marquee now...
I guess Lutherans aren't Christians either.They believe in Martin Luther.
You really need a new hobby.
And yet; that great MORMON Organization; based in SLC, say that the Flds folks (you know them: they actually FOLLOW MORMON Scripture: D&C 132) are not 'really' MORMON.
Salt Lake City needs a new 'revelation'!
The Saducees and Pharisees claimed to follow GOD; but SOMEone claimed they didn't.
Now... Who could that have been?
I Will Be a Second Mohammed
In the heat of the Missouri Mormon War of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword. So shall it eventually be with usJoseph Smith or the Sword! 
It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some strikingand troublingparallels. Consider the following.
I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smiths claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.
 Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230231. Fawn Brodies footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. Except where noted, all the details of this chapter  are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 579, 97129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.
 John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.89. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 67.
 Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.
 Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408409.
No one brings up Romney before you do...
Evidently you haven't been conprehending the FACTS of Mitt's rule in Massachusetts!
You REALLY should malign our Great Founder & Leader, Joseph Smith, that way!!
--MormonDude(I don't CARE what the facts are: I BELIEVE that JS was a PROPHET of GOD!)
Post ONE that offends you and we'll discuss it.
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say Thus Saith the Lord, to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by mens reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidencythe highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidencythe living prophet and the First Presidencyfollow them and be blessedreject them and suffer.
I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captainhow close do our lives harmonize with the Lords anointedthe living ProphetPresident of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.
Ezra Taft Benson
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)
Just like you, the ANTI's (as we are loving called) in these threads have no problems with them, either.
But with mormonISM?
We got BIG problems!
I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the otherThis is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, Never mind, all is wellI am well enough off. I then said to my mother,
Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).
No; I don't!
Perhaps some BIBLE study is in store for you; too!
1. Then Moses climbed Mount Nebo from the plains of Moab to the top of Pisgah, across from Jericho. There the LORD showed him the whole land--from Gilead to Dan,
2. all of Naphtali, the territory of Ephraim and Manasseh, all the land of Judah as far as the western sea,
3. the Negev and the whole region from the Valley of Jericho, the City of Palms, as far as Zoar.
4. Then the LORD said to him, "This is the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob when I said, `I will give it to your descendants.' I have let you see it with your eyes, but you will not cross over into it."
5. And Moses the servant of the LORD died there in Moab, as the LORD had said.
Temple Recommend Questions:
1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?
2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?
3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?
4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?
5 Do you live the law of chastity?
6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?
7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?
9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?
10 Are you a full-tithe payer?
11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?
12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?
13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:
Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?
15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?
|The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Ten minutes of a Rober Tilton broadcast is all I generally need to dismiss any of the holier than thou claims I hear from the self-professed keepers of the Christian faith.
And I say that as a Christian.
So true: we can READ what the Leaders of the LDS Organization® have to say on the subject.
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