Posted on 11/28/2009 8:30:41 PM PST by Ancient Drive
You need to read that again and get your thous and thys in order. It (her seed) shall bruise the head, and thou (thy seed) shalt bruise the heel.
I am afraid the FR has become the official worship site for St. Sarah of Wasilla. It has finally devolved into idolatry. Before the Lord crushes satan’s head we must suffer many strikes at our heel by the serpant. Man my foot is hurting.
Absolutely. Thank you!
How dare you speak such heresy ! You shall be cast out ! You are a heretic ! Repent and you shall be saved. Worship at Sarah's feet and you will find salvation.
I don’t know if that vision was real or not. However, it did prompt me to read the short story of Esther. Even at the time, the first thing I noticed was that the Jews and Esther were in exile before Esther was in any sort of position of power.
It was only after things got really bad that she was able to sway the King’s mind - with God’s help.
Whether it is Palin or not - I fear that things will get very bad before someone, with God’s help, will be able to turn things around in the country.
No different than the Bushbots and the stupid “Day in the Life” worship threads. Republicans can be as vomit-inducing as leftists.
Conservatives don’t worship “leaders”; they hold their feet to the fire.
“In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” Thomas Jefferson
How bout leave the “thous and thys” alone and consult a working Greek lexicon? Good heavens...
Good combo graphic Phil.
You didn’t have to tell us you’re joking. Every time you post pretending to be a conservative, we know you’re joking.
Hank
You have a new-age Bible there, friend. The Catholic Douay Rheims Bible, a word-for-word English translation of the Latin Vulgate, (the official Bible of the Church for 1,600 years), says it this way:
"I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel."
As you can see the newer "bibles", even the newer, allegedly "Catholic" bibles, keep changing the translation in error. The Church has faithfully and perpetually taught through the ages that it is the Virgin Mary who is referenced in this Genesis verse. Of course Mary crushes the serpent's head through the power of Jesus Christ, as an instrument, just as she was the chosen instrument of which Our Saviour came into the world through.
In Revelation 12 'she' and 'her seed' appears again, clearly as a "woman" and the mother of our Savior, 'her seed' being the followers of Christ.
1 "And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered. 3 And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his head seven diadems: 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered; that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son. 5 And she, (note: the Virgin Mary), brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne."
6 "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that there they should feed her a thousand two hundred sixty days. 7 And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels: 8 And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And that great dragon was cast out, -------".
11 "--------- 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman, who brought forth the man child: 14 And there were given to the woman two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the desert unto her place, where she is nourished for a time and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth after the woman, water as it were a river; that he might cause her to be carried away by the river."
16 "And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the river, which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was angry against the woman: AND WENT TO MAKE WAR WITH HER SEED, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. ---------"
3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.The previous translation I quoted changed "it" to "he" because I presume they didn't like calling Christ "it", even though "it" refers to the term "seed".
This is where I see the problem with the interpretation of the term "she" being Mary: in what way did Satan ever bruise, or lie in wait for, the heel of Mary?
No Hebrew scholar here, but I remember reading that "smooth-skinned" can also be translated "fair skinned," and we certainly are tall. And overdue for judgement.
It begins in the summer, and looks as though it lasts a year. Then we repent
First of all the verse is about some future event, it is a prophecy, so it is not logical to ask in what way Mary's heel has been bruised. It says that the woman's heel will be bruised by the serpent. The rest of my answer to this question is found in Revelation 12, (below).
As for the "it" question in the translation, there is no "it" in Hebrew. However, both 'hu', (Hebrew for 'he'), and 'he', (Hebrew for 'she'), can be translated "it" depending on the context. I realize that the translation of this verse is a controversial one to many, and not being a linguistic scholar in biblical languages I must defer to the Church's official translation in the Latin Vulgate and its English translation, the Douay Rheims. I also defer to two thousand years of Catholic tradition, to what the early Church Fathers and the Saints have written about the understanding of this verse over the millenia.
Back to the first question, it is revealed in the Apocalypse, (Revelation 12), that "the woman and her seed" are Mary and Her Son Jesus. So it is both Jesus and Mary Who will crush the head of the serpent, Mary being given the power and authority to participate in the "crushing" of the sepent by Jesus Christ. :
1 "And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered. 3 And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his head seven diadems: 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered; that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne."
6 "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that there they should feed her a thousand two hundred sixty days. 7 And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels: 8 And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. ------ --"
13 "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman, who brought forth the man child: 14 And there were given to the woman two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the desert unto her place, where she is nourished for a time and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth after the woman, water as it were a river; that he might cause her to be carried away by the river."
16 "And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the river, which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was angry against the woman: AND WENT TO MAKE WAR WITH THE REST OF HER SEED, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ". ---
I don’t see where in that passage the woman does any “crushing”. She just gets help to run away, and help to be protected from the beast’s attacks.
But the verse in Revelation 12 refers to "the woman and her seed", just as the verse in Genesis says "the woman and her seed". This is the clear connection between the woman in Genesis and the woman in Revelation 12. The 'woman' in both books is preeminent and central to Christ and the church, and Satan wants their destruction. Both references are to the Blessed Virgin Mary. See in Rev. 12 at how desperate the devil is to strike the woman, (kill her, but fails). It's interesting to note that in Revelation the Devil "persecutes" the woman, this could be Satan 'bruising her heel', it is a serious attack but not fatal. So there are many correlations between "the woman and her seed" in Genesis and "the woman and her seed" in Revelation.
It says of the woman in Revelation 12:
"And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne".
It further says:
"And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ".
There's no doubt that the woman in Revelation is Mary, and that "her seed" is Jesus Christ and the Church. Since both Genesis and Revelation refer to "the woman and her seed" being attacked by Satan, and in both verses the woman's wounds are not fatal, the only question is 'how can they not be the same woman', and how can that woman not be Mary?
You also raised the question of why Mary, and not God Himself, would do the 'crushing'. My answer is that God chose Mary to be the human instrument through which Jesus would come into the world when He could have done it Himself, without any aid from Mary, so why would God not use Mary to crush Satan's head? If God desired Mary's assistance to bring Salvation into the world, it follows that He would also use her aid to crush sin forever, to assist in ending sin forever. The N/T calls Jesus the "new Adam", and the Church teaches that Mary is the "new Eve". Eve's "yes" to Satan brought sin into the world, and Mary's "yes" to God's angel brought Salvation into the world.
I'm no biblical scholar, but if the Devil brought sin into the world through Eve, it follows that God would bring salvation into the world through a woman, and that woman is Mary. It says in Luke 2:35 that Jesus would be destined to "be the rise and fall of many", and that Mary's heart would be pierced by a sword also. This is a clear reference to Mary's cooperation with Jesus in salvation history. Perhaps Jesus allows the Virgin Mary to crush Satan's head because Satan pierced her heart as she stood helplessly watching Him suffer unspeakable torments on the Cross? No one knows the mind of God, but it has been Catholic teaching for millenia that Mary is the "woman" in Genesis.
If I were more organized and more diligent, I could have indexed a lot of 'em over the years.
LOL. Aren’t you responsible for one of FR’s memorable threads? It escapes me right now.
Death of Don Ho. I broke that one.
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