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We need to take a step back on the EPA threats.
12-7-09 | vanity

Posted on 12/08/2009 8:05:11 AM PST by Til I am the last man standing

I think we need to take a step back from the histronics surrounding the EPA announcement yesterday. Charles Krauthammer is correct in that this is a way to strong arm Congress into doing something. They are going after the egos of the Jim Webbs, Lindsey Grahams and John McCain. Let’s look at what the EPA CANNOT do: 1. They do not have the taxing authority of Congress, 2. The EPA cannot redistribute the wealth of this country the way congress can. 3. They have no way of making their political rulings permanent; another administration can overturn those rules. 4. Their rules are subject to more judicial scrutiny; we can sue them.

What can the implementation of this ruling cause? Increased CAFÉ standards will put more economic pressure on the rust belt. Emissions standards will strike another blow to the coal industry (are you listening Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia?). LET THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION BE THE SOLE OWNER OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF IMPLEMENTING THEIR RULING.

If Congress bows to the pressure that the Obama administration is placing on it we will get Cap and Trade. Don’t let what the EPA is doing give cover to those in the Senate that would like to do Cap and Trade, but have their poll numbers to worry about.


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: cleanairact; epa
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To: riri
I don’t know where they think millions of people are going to get the money for doubled home heating bills. This, alone, will bankrupt millions.

What with all the taxes this damn fool congers (sic) is about to impose, and the direct and indirect energy taxes brought on by "cap and tax", we're all going to be a lot less wealthy soon.

21 posted on 12/08/2009 8:58:53 AM PST by Ole Okie (McCain cost Sarah the election.)
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To: calex59

I believe...I believe....I believe... wait, that’s from Polar Express. Obviously you aren’t getting my point. Cap and Trade is much worse then what the EPA can do. That is why the EPA’s own statement states that they will only take action if congress won’t. Don’t you get it? Cap and Trade is global redistribution of wealth and a power grab greater then anythng the EPA can do. Don’t fall for Obama’s slight of hand.


22 posted on 12/08/2009 9:04:26 AM PST by Til I am the last man standing (It's the internet Senators; We can see what you are doing!)
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To: Ole Okie

My electric bill has more than doubled within the last 3 months and my electric company is getting taxpayer dollars for green initiatives.


23 posted on 12/08/2009 9:05:32 AM PST by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: Til I am the last man standing

I am not so sure about your optimism. The EPA can wreck havoc if not checked by Congress. Combine the EPA with the courts, you have a train wreck without any Congressional action. Environmental groups and states are suing to force the EPA to take even more actions. There is no hope of Congress stopping the EPA even if conservatives do well in next year’s election. The EPA can levy large fines, write onerous regulations, and threaten (even jail) individuals for non compliance.


24 posted on 12/08/2009 9:18:11 AM PST by businessprofessor
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To: lovecraft

“I said it before and I’ll say it again. Between this and Obamacare, this is the largest power grab by the Fed in US History.”

Only because 300,000,000 U.S. citizens is letting it happen by 545 crooks.


25 posted on 12/08/2009 9:31:22 AM PST by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: Til I am the last man standing
their power is finite, and can be scrutinized thru the lens of the US judiciary. Sue every ruling they put out!

Sure. Good theory. How well has it worked since 1975? Seeing as how no one in the Republican party outside of Inhofe seems to have the onions to even speak out.

This is no different that what the EPA has been doing for 30+ years. I've seen little effort to pursue lawsuits against them except by the EnviroTards when they aren't extreme enough.

We wouldn't be here now if the Party Of Stupid had been doing this all along. Any evidence it is going to get smart and start now?

I could use a little hope. IMO, we should be taking pitchforks to Republicans.

26 posted on 12/08/2009 9:56:32 AM PST by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s........you weren't really there)
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To: Til I am the last man standing

With the Obama administration having control over GM and chrysler they need to get Ford to take the bait and then Obama can allow the EPA to drop the hammer on production laws.Looks like we will end up with electric go-karts and more nuclear power plants anyone smell GE near by?.


27 posted on 12/08/2009 9:57:10 AM PST by Vaduz
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To: Til I am the last man standing

They can. They can’t. They will. They won’t. Lawyers will get rich off of this bickering and little will be solved. There is only one effort that will stop the left’s agenda, 2010 mid term elections win.

We need to throw money and effort into 2010 like never before and a get-out-the-vote effort never seen before.


28 posted on 12/08/2009 9:57:43 AM PST by Joan Kerrey (The bigger the government = The smaller the people)
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To: Joan Kerrey
There is only one effort that will stop the left’s agenda, 2010 mid term elections win.

You're assuming that ACORN and the left haven't tainted the election process to the point that a fair election cannot be held. I'm not sure if that is true or not any more.

The way I see it, 2010 will prove whether or not the ballot box is still available as a means of saving this once-free country. The soap box is shakey since the left owns 85% of the media. The cartridge box is extreme and messy (though it could happen). We still have the cash box and we DO have the means to starve this country if enough people have the guts to do so.

29 posted on 12/08/2009 10:14:53 AM PST by meyer (Government health care = national strike.)
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To: 3niner
When a government department engages in blatant overreaching, it’s time to eliminate that department.

Most of the alphabet-soup government agencies have reached that stage, and yet, they still exist. What an opportunity the republicans had in the early 2000's to eliminate the NEA, OSHA, EPA, and several other useless groups that serve only to hinder the growth of this country.

30 posted on 12/08/2009 10:18:09 AM PST by meyer (Government health care = national strike.)
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To: businessprofessor

Don’t mistake pragmatism for optimism. I know that the EPA is a train wreck, I’m just saying that Cap and Trade is worse.


31 posted on 12/08/2009 11:31:47 AM PST by Til I am the last man standing (It's the internet Senators; We can see what you are doing!)
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To: meyer

If the EPA overreaches now, maybe electoral victories in ‘10 and ‘12 will lead to changes in that agency


32 posted on 12/08/2009 11:33:13 AM PST by Til I am the last man standing (It's the internet Senators; We can see what you are doing!)
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To: meyer

My 77 year old dad picked up a hand gun and participated in the Thanksgiving target practice my brothers and I were doing. 1st time he had ever done that. No death panels in his future.


33 posted on 12/08/2009 11:36:33 AM PST by Til I am the last man standing (It's the internet Senators; We can see what you are doing!)
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To: Til I am the last man standing
"can be scrutinized thru the lens of the US judiciary"

It was the 2007 SCOTUS ruling(5-4) that CO2 was a pollutant that set the EPA in motion.

EPA has said that they will not use the Clean Air Act regulatory threshold of 250 tons. Instead, they plan to "tailor the regulation" to 25,000 tons, which will limit those being regulated to the very largest emitters(about 14,000)

Those "very largest emitters" will sue EPA saying that EPA does not have the legal authority to change the regulatory threshold from 250 tons to 25,000 tons.

I hate to tell you this, but EPA is trying to stay out of the way of Congress. But EPA has certain legal obligations to the SCOTUS decision. New York University School of Law published a paper earlier this year defining EPA's legal obligations to the court. The paper was entitled "The Road Ahead" and it has been published and republished on numerous websites.

34 posted on 12/08/2009 7:37:02 PM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

The EPA is strong arming congress.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/09/administration-warns-command-control-regulation-emissions/


35 posted on 12/09/2009 8:19:01 AM PST by Til I am the last man standing (It's the internet Senators; We can see what you are doing!)
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To: Til I am the last man standing
1. They do not have the taxing authority of Congress,

When the excutive wants to tax, they call it a "fine".

2. The EPA cannot redistribute the wealth of this country the way congress can.

Irrelevant when your company is slapped with a $2MM fine. The effect is the same to you.

3. They have no way of making their political rulings permanent; another administration can overturn those rules.

Little consolation after your company goes bankrupt or you are laid off so your employer can pay the fines.

4. Their rules are subject to more judicial scrutiny; we can sue them.

Hah! The SCOTUS has already handed the EPA this authority. Good luck with that.

Some "checks and balances" we have going on, eh? Now it's "compromise and collaboration".

36 posted on 12/09/2009 8:24:19 AM PST by TChris ("Hello", the politician lied.)
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To: TChris

1. Fines can be appealed. There is also caps.
2. I am sorry about the 2 mil fine, but think about the
20 Bil tax that congress can impose.
3. Sorry again about your business, but you can start
another one when we get someone in office who will
repeal the EPA findings. A lot harder to repeal laws
versus executive orders.
4. We can still sue over substance and process.

Rush just agreed with me on today’s show...Obama thru the EPA is strong arming the congress.


37 posted on 12/09/2009 11:27:09 AM PST by Til I am the last man standing (It's the internet Senators; We can see what you are doing!)
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To: Til I am the last man standing
It hasn't happened to me personally, but it most certainly will. Government, particularly Democrat, does not acquire power for it to remain unused.

All your points are mostly true, but come down to "it's not as bad as if it were congress". That's true, but things with the EPA can certainly get plenty bad enough to be worth fighting about.

38 posted on 12/09/2009 11:33:48 AM PST by TChris ("Hello", the politician lied.)
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To: kabar
EPA can impose some very heavy handed regulations on business and utility companies that will cost jobs and raise the price of energy.

While they can impose costs, they have a more difficult time giving benefits and cash to favored groups. This limits their ability to create an entitled group that would fight overturning of the regulations. Cap&Trade, OTOH, WOULD create a group that would be making money off the situation, and would expend funds and energy to fight overturning it.

39 posted on 12/09/2009 11:35:52 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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