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Before the Fall of the Reindeer People
Environmental Graffiti ^ | 13 Dec 2009 | EG

Posted on 12/21/2009 8:32:22 AM PST by BGHater

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To: blam

51 posted on 03/17/2010 8:02:55 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

I am Swedish and Norwegian but have not got my DNA tested yet. I bought my Aunt that National Geographic test kit for Christmas and she just got it done. When she gets the results she said she will let me know. I am curious to know if I have an Sami in my DNA.


52 posted on 03/17/2010 8:29:38 PM PDT by Sawdring
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To: Sawdring
Look for mtDNA of U5 and 'V's. I have both in my family.

Here is some info on the Sami DNA.

My dad's mom is U5a...same as 9,000 year old Cheddar Man

53 posted on 03/17/2010 8:38:19 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Famous DNA

Ancient DNA

54 posted on 03/17/2010 8:42:12 PM PDT by blam
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To: muawiyah; nathanbedford; BerryDingle; blam; thecodont; Knitting A Conundrum
Muawiyah wrote: "One aspect of Sa'ami life not covered in those pictures was the forced relocation of most of the population to America in the mid 1600s through the early 1700s."
They were  forest finns, not the sami.

There are today at least 25 million descendants of the Swedes and Finns of the Delaware. At least
half of these, perhaps more, have one or more Delaware Finns in their family tree.
Source



The following Colonial American surnames are known to derive
exclusively from the New Sweden Colony (original froms are in
parentheses): Bartleson/Partleson (Bertilsson);Clemson
(Clementsson/Clemmenson); Dalbo/Dalbow (Dahlbo); Derrickson (Didricsson);
Holston/Hosten (Holstein); Longacre (Langaker); Lykins/Likens/Laican
(Laikkonen/Laukkainen); Mecum/Meekim (Mekonen/Mankinen); Mink
(Minkinnen/Mankinen); Mullica (Mullikka); Olson/Oldson (Olsson);
Rambo/Rambow (Rimbo/Rombo/Romppainen); Seneker/Senecca (Sinikka);
Stallcup/Stalcop (Stalkop); Steelman/ Stilman (Stille); Swanson
(Swensson); Tussey/Toss (Tossavainen/Thoresson); Vanneman/Veinom/Veinon
(Veinom/Viainen/Van Neman/Vainoimen); and Walraven (Wallrafen/Wallraven).
Source

Diamond notching—formed when the bottom ends of v-notched logs were trimmed to create a diamond shape—is found most frequently in west central North Carolina, but has also been found in western Pennsylvania and the Virginia Piedmont. This distinctively Scandinavian technique migrated south with Finns and Swedes and those who were influenced by them.
Source



Born in Ridley, Pennsylvania, in 1725 to descendents of original Finnish immigrants to the Delaware Valley, John Morton led a life dedicated to public service and was among the most respected statesmen in Colonial America.

John Morton, a hero of American independence, was the descendent of Finnish immigrants. The John Morton Project, begun by former U.S. Ambassador to Finland Marilyn Ware, is a collaborative effort to revive the history of John Morton who cast the tie-breaking vote for independence as a member of the Pennsylvania delegation to the Continental Congress in 1776. John Morton then signed the Declaration of Independence at great personal risk.
The John Morton Project

The Finnish Language on the Delaware

Site of first Finnish settlement in America.

Annals of Pennsylvania, from the discovery of the Delaware, 1609-1682
1.
2.

55 posted on 09/11/2010 4:45:16 AM PDT by Viiksitimali
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To: Viiksitimali

Excellent information. thanks


56 posted on 09/11/2010 8:13:15 AM PDT by blam
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To: Viiksitimali
Understand this the first boat to New Sweden in Delaware had 95 passegers (presumably just the heads of households) who were identified as speaking "FIN" or "FINN". There were about 7 more Swedes, all military officers.

When New Sweden RELOCATED out of Lancaster PA (where most of them had moved AFTER the Dutch takeover of New Sweden, they organized 5 Sa'ami settlements in Pennsylvania and 2 in Maryland.

That relocation was in 1700 (from DE/MD to PA/Western MD.

The Sa'ami who lived in Finland's forests and chased reindeer were sometimes mistakenly called "Forest Finns".

But, not to worry, there was a Swede on board the Mayflower ~ but he has been mis-identified as being a guy named Digerie Priest ~ but it's more like he was actually "De La Gard" Bedel or Hoparties.

Remember, the compact was reduced to writing with appropriate names of the signatories some number of years AFTER the voyage.

The fellow identified as Digerie Priest, who was supposedly on the boat, had a young daughter back in Nederland. She's the ancestress of about 1/2 of the members of the Mayflower Society.

BTW, at the time of the settlement in Delaware, Finland was still under development, and was firmly part of the Swedish empire ~ complete with a nobility, etc. In the mid 1600s the term FINN or FIN still applied to a language group spoken from the Southeastern part of today's Finland Northward to the Arctic (those borders not yet having been determined.

Accept the fact the Finnish Finns (the Suomi), and even the Swedish nobility in Finland didn't come to the Americas in large numbers until about 1810 when Finland was being prepped to be given to the Czar as a Grand Duchy. I know where most of those guys in the nobility went. You guys should probably focus your genealogical research on boats arriving after that date.

BTW, people of substantial Sa'ami ancestrycan "prove it" with the x-factor DNA sequence on the female side, the y-chromosome on the father's side, and assorted genes lodged in Chromosome 6 that are peculiar to the Sa'ami, or otherwise known to have originated in that population.

57 posted on 09/11/2010 8:19:31 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Muawiyah wrote:
"Understand this the first boat to New Sweden in Delaware had 95 passegers (presumably just the heads of households) who were identified as speaking "FIN" or "FINN". There were about 7 more Swedes, all military officers."

We know from the records of the colony that many of the passengers on the ships bound for New Sweden were Finns. For example, out of a total of 105 colonists on the Mercurius, which sailed in 1655, Huygen lists 92 as Finns. 'The majority were "Swedish Finns" and, since Papegoja [the commander] did not understand the Finnish language, he engaged one Hendrick Olsson, who had been in New Sweden before, to assist him.' Thirdly, the records also contain indications of the presence of large numbers of Finns in the colony. For example, Lindeström remarks, circa 1655, that the land between the Christina River and the Sandhook (i.e., New Castle) was 'here and there settled by Finns'; Beeckman, Stuyvesant's representative at Altena (formerly Fort Christina), speaks, in 1662, of 'sixteen or eighteen families, mostly Fins, residing in our jurisdiction'; Thomas Paschall, an English settler in Philadelphia, writes to a friend, in 1683, that the 'River ... [was] taken up all along, by the Sweads, and Finns and some Dutch, before the English came'; and a Philadelphian, Jacob Bengtson, in 1748 observes, on the strength of information given to him by his grandfathers, who were among the first Swedish settlers, that 'a large number [of early colonists came] from Finland.' Finally, we have the testimony of travelers like William Edmundson, an English clergyman, who observed, upon his arrival in Delaware Town (i.e., New Castle), circa 1675, that most of the inhabitants were Dutch and Finns; or like the Labadists Jasper Danckaerts and Peter Sluyter, who, on a journey through the Delaware River valley in 1679, visited Takany (i.e., Tacony, now a part of Philadelphia), 'a village of Swedes and Finns, situated on the west side of the river'.

However widely Finnish may have been used along the Delaware, it was destined, like its most immediate competitor, Swedish, to eventual eclipse. An informative comment on the decline of Finnish appears in Peter Kalm's journal under the entry for November 22, 1748, as follows:

Finns have also settled here. They have never had clergymen of their own, but have always had themselves served by the Swedish. They have always spoken Finnish among themselves. Most of them settled in Penn's Neck, where people have been found who until very recently spoke Finnish. But now most of them are dead, and their descendants changed into Englishmen.
The Finnish Language on the Delaware
A. R. Dunlap & E. J. Moyne


Muawiyah wrote:
"The Sa'ami who lived in Finland's forests and chased reindeer were sometimes mistakenly called "Forest Finns"."

Forest Finns (Norwegian: Skogfinner, Swedish: Skogsfinnar, Finnish: Metsäsuomalaiset) are people of Finnish descent in the forest areas of Eastern Norway and Central Sweden. The Forest Finns emigrated from Savonia in Eastern Finland during the late 16th and early to mid 17th centuries, and traditionally pursued slash-and-burn agriculture.
WIKIPEDIA

The recruiting of soldiers, officials and settlers for New Sweden was a difficult task at the beginning of the 1640s and thus, already in 1640 the Swedish government made plans to sentence Finns for deportation to New Sweden. These were Finns living in the forests of the Swedish countryside who had earned a bad reputation for their burnbeating methods of deforestation. In 1640 at least four Värmland Finns, who had been sentenced to military duty for burnbeating, petitioned for deportation to New Sweden. Their request was approved and the Crown decided to round up even more of the Finnish burnbeaters. At this point, the government also found some Forest Finns who volunteered to go.

In 1643 the Governors of several Swedish provinces received orders from the Crown to imprison burnbeating Finns for deportation to New Sweden. This action apparently brought additional Värmland Finns to New Sweden. At the same time, some petty thieves from prisons in Finland were also sent to the colony. This forced migration could not have been very extensive, since the population of New Sweden in 1647 still numbered under 200 and the settlers formed a very small part of this number. The majority were still soldiers and civil servants.
In time, forced migration was no longer necessary, for at the end of the 1640s a veritable "America fever" spread among the Värmland Finns. Thus, in 1649 Matts Erickson of Värmland wrote to the Swedish Privy Council on behalf of 200 Finns and petitioned to have this group sent to New Sweden. From the Council's records for the same year, it becomes clear that there were close to 300 who desired to emigrate. A few, perhaps a tenth of the applicants, succeeded in sailing with the ninth expedition, but very few of this group arrived at their intended destination. There are no existing details about the composition of the large group which arrived in New Sweden in the spring of 1654. Since we know that recruitment work for this expedition was carried out in the forest regions of Värmland and Dalarna, it is quite likely that the group included Värmland Finns. The recruiter (Sven Skute) came from Kronoby in western Finland.
Finns in the New Sweden Colony


The legacy of the 17th century "Forest Finns" lives on in the border areas of Norway and Sweden
By some curious historical accident, George W. Bush may have his roots in Finnish Savo
Helsingin Sanomat / First published in print 19.10.2008

Muawiyah wrote:
"Accept the fact the Finnish Finns (the Suomi), ....didn't come to the Americas in large numbers until about 18.."

This is True
http://www.loc.gov/rr/european/FinnsAmer/finchro.html

The Finns on the Delaware, of course, were quite a small group among those who settled in America. By the beginning of the 1700s they had already lost their language. Nevertheless, the group left its mark to the extent that its existence was known in some form up until the 19th century, since the Delaware Finns still appear in American literature that dates from the beginning of the 1800s.
Finns in the New Sweden Colony


58 posted on 09/11/2010 10:05:44 AM PDT by Viiksitimali
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To: Viiksitimali
In the 1500s, 1600s, and most of the 1700s ~ the Swedes generally referred to Finns as being identical with the people living in the far North form middle of the West Coast of Norway, up and around to Petsamo and then down through the virtually empty countryside made up of what is now Lapland County and thither in the remote uplands, all the way to whatever border the Russians could defend.

The Skolt nation, the true woodland Sa'ami, lived in general from about where the Norwegian/Russian border is today, across to Penchanga and then down to Lake Inari and east to what is the Russian/Finnish border regions.

The Pomars, also reindeer chasing people, but of Slavic origin ~ usually identified as Russian by most sources, competed for the same sort of range in the Eastern reaches, or Fenns/Finns of Finland.

The Pmars and Sa'ami are clearly identifiable from the standpoint of modern Finns.

Still, when the term "Finn" was ascribed principally to the people living in the Finmark ~ in the North Everywhere, the people who actually lived there were Sa'ami.

The ships logs kept by the Swedes (which ever ones we can find) identified the LANGUAGE spoken by the people on board the book ~ and Sa'ami were always identified as FIN.

It is possible there were a couple of "Finns" somewhere ~ 'cause there's the town of Finland in Lanaster County PA ~ it dates from an early time. It's right up the road from Nickelmines ~ originally settled by Sa'ami from what is now Petsamo Oblast

Only Germans and English people live there now, all the Scandinavians having moved out to avoid disturbances by Quakers.

Otherwise there are many places whose names contain the word "deer" or "union", and they are places established later by Sa'ami who were only lightly supervised, counseled, or ruled over by anyone!

The Skolt Sa'ami were clearly REMOVED from most of their territory in Northern Finland and Russia by Swedes and Russians more interested in the iron ore, and the nickel mines than in people selling baskets and deer hide.

At some point in time it became conventional to refer to the various Scandinavan, Russian and Latvian/Estonian tribesmen living in Finland as Finns.

Before that time Finn was the description of the language and place where the Sa'ami lived.

59 posted on 09/11/2010 11:00:26 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Viiksitimali
Where Do The Finns Come From?
60 posted on 09/11/2010 2:23:32 PM PDT by blam
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To: muawiyah
Muawiyah wrote:
"Sapala (spelled several ways) is a popular Sa'ami name, as is Takala!
That name means "Fisher"

I do not see any Saami names. Takala is a Finnish name (picture). Taka = backside, rear  1  + locative suffix -la  =  backcountry .
Hovi =  court, Royal court .  2


Muawiyah wrote:
"BTW, people of substantial Sa'ami ancestrycan "prove it" with the x-factor DNA sequence on the female side, the y-chromosome on the father's side, and assorted genes lodged in Chromosome 6 that are peculiar to the Sa'ami, or otherwise known to have originated in that population. "

The Saami motif is U5b1b1.
Sami U5b falls into subclade U5b1b1. This subclade is present in the French, Croatian, Bosnian, Slovenian, Czech, Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, and Hungarian mtDNA pools and also in the Caucasus. However 38% of the Sami U5b1b1 mtDNAs have haplotype so far exclusive to the Sami, containing a transition at np 16148.[6]
Wikipedia

Haplogroup U5 and its subclades U5a and U5b form the highest population concentrations in the far north, in Sami, Finns, and Estonians,
Wikipedia

y-chromosome
e.g. Michael Likin 1785 Moorefield West Virginia  Map


61 posted on 09/12/2010 5:18:30 AM PDT by Viiksitimali
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To: Viiksitimali
I have no doubt that since the "big breakout" in the 900s the Sa'ami men have proved to be highly popular with the Finnish and other ladies eh!

Note, on Taala, the ones I've known are from the Sa'ami areas in Northern Sweden, Eastern Norway, and Lapland County. What we are talking about here is a case where there's been a fair amount of vocabulary slopover from one language to another.

Until the finding that the Sa'ami were likely the OLDEST population in the Fenno-Scandian peninsula many philologists were of the opinion that the various Sa'ami languages arose out of a common background with Finnish and Estonian.

Once it was determined that the Sa'ami were the OLDEST population in the peninsula, they've gravitated to analysis showing the linguistic flow to be from the Sa'ami languages to the FennoScandian group.

Sapala is the surname of a famous Kven from Norway who had a dog named Balto in Alaska. He and the dog became heros. Regarding the Kvens, they are recent arrivals in the Arctic ~ almost forgot about them ~ but they have a name for the region where they went to fish on the Arctic back during the centuries when they just went up seasonally. They called it "Ruija" which is incredible ~ I had not noticed that before.

This "ruija" is part of the name applicable to the bottom lands near Seymour, Columbus and North Vernon Indiana. Our word is Ama-roosia or Ama-ruija (so maybe you can tell me what the Ama means). The capital city of Lapland County in Finland, in Skolt, is very nearly the same word group but "backwards".

But going beyond Leonard Sappala, I've met many other Sappala surnamed people over the years and they were Sa'ami. Not ruling out a few of them selfidentifying as Norwegian or Finnish, but how about the Keppel family?

62 posted on 09/12/2010 11:35:21 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Leonhard Seppala was a Norwegian of Kven descent. He was born in Skibotn and growing up on the nearby island of Skjervøy in Storfjord municipality, in the county of Troms, Norway. His father, Isak Isaksson Seppälä had been born in Sweden.
Wikipedia

Seppälä is a Finnish name. Seppä = Smith . 1

63 posted on 09/13/2010 9:27:38 AM PDT by Viiksitimali
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To: Viiksitimali
And as I found out not long ago Douglas is also a Swedish name, and a Finnish name, and a Scottish name, and a Norwegian name ~ and people who are Norse, or Finnish, or S'ami may well be named Douglas, Nelson, etc.

It's only worse in the United States where anyone of any origin may be named anything anyone wishes to be named.

I gather we got this tradition from the Scandinavians.

For the last 5 years it has been clear that naming traditions, linguage usage, or citizenship did not necessarily identify the people known as Sa'ami. Check: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1199377/

Subsequently Swedish medical researchers have had a field day discovering more differences ~ not just in a bit of mtDNA here and there, or the frequency of occurrence of different sub-haplogroups within the different Scandinavian populations, but also in Chromosome 6 (I believe that's the one that controls building livers, etc. which are foundational to the human digestive system).

Being Sa'ami doesn't mean you can't be Finnish, or Swedish, or Norwegian, or that you MUST speak one of the old languages ~ not anymore ~ it's a medical question of as much seriousness as whether or not you have blue, or gray, eyes and a Finnish background of any degree anywhere in the world (which has been studied, and found to be related to cholesterol levels).

As everybody on this thread knows you can't just assimilate away distinct genetically transmitted functions ~

Did this start with someone wanting to know what were typical Sa'ami names? I think it did. I suggested some I've found associated with Sa'amis. In the United States Smith and Fisher, Jones, Brown, Williams, and so on are associated with them, and then there are the Keppels!

64 posted on 09/13/2010 10:35:33 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: JoeProBono

Took a minute for me to get why that photo was there, but when it sunk in it was hilarious, the delayed reaction was perfect ... Well done


65 posted on 09/13/2010 10:41:52 AM PDT by Scythian
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To: blam; BGHater
"LAP" is a rootword for the Indo-European lanuages as well as the Uralic and Altaic language groups, and for the so-called "Fenno-Ugric group.

The fact that this word is so short, and so universal suggests it dates from a time in the distant past ~ during the Ice Age, when the Cro-Magnon people moved into Europe (35,000 BC).

In the Indo European group it almost invariably means someting very flat ~ a sheet ~ which may be woven, or processed from leather, or bark, or any other substance.

In Ladino, which preceeded the German based Yiddish used by the Jews, the trades name "Schmidlap" (spelled numerous ways) derives from the Latin base Schmei, meaning "smear" and "de" meaning from or on top of or derivative of, and "lap" meaning sheet, or cloth, or paper. A Schmidlap thereby is the name for a PAPER MAKER.

It's only in Sweden that people have gotten hung up on the "lap" root word having connotations of "rags". Fur Shur, it means nothing but "flat pieces of cloth", or maybe even "birch veneer"!

This same sort of nonsense has taken hold in the United States when it comes to the word "squaw" or "squa". It's is simply the feminine personal form used by the Abenaki and Iriquoian languages. The issue behind the campaign to suppress the term "squaw" is the question of "payments to tribes". The United States every year pays money to all recognized American Indian tribes. The Abenaki, who were the FIRST tribe of Indians to meet Europeans in the Northeast have not yet been fully recognized as a tribe. The ones who are recognized by the government fear that adding the Abenaki to the official lists will deplete the annual allocation for themselves.

People who tell you not to say "squaw" because that means "whore" are either misinformed or they are part of the disinformation campaign designed to exclude the Abenaki Indians from official federal recognition.

I'm sure that eventually the Swedes will figure out that the "Lap" thing was pretty much part of a similar campaign to portray the Lapland people as being "dirty".

66 posted on 09/13/2010 11:12:06 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Viiksitimali; muawiyah
"Seppälä is a Finnish name. Seppä = Smith . 1"

My dad's mother's name is Smith and her mtDNA is haplogroup U5a (as are many of the Sa'ami).

My mother, whose maiden name is Strength, has mtDNA haplogroup 'V', as do 52% of the Skoat Sa'ami.

Now, during reading various articles about Sa'ami's, I came across a Sa'ami name Streng (minus the 'th' of Strength).

Anyone have any insight into this name Streng/Strength?

FYI, 9,000 year old Cheddar Man is haplogroup U5.

My yDNA is R1b (wide spread) and my mtDNA is 'V' (rare).

67 posted on 09/13/2010 11:40:38 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
The lucky guys in the Orkney Islands share many Sa'ami genetic traits but they are culturally Indo-European. Archaeology shows that the Sa'ami most likely occupied Britain, the Orkneys, those funny islands in between Iceland and Scotland, and most of the Southern reaches of Scandinavia.

Then, they moved further North, or, as I suspect, the migrating Norse ate them (snork, snork ~ a joke guys).

68 posted on 09/13/2010 12:06:35 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: blam
You can't go by names. I am an R1b like you but my family name was concentrated in East Anglia and Glostershire and the Western Part of Somerset, an odd distribution and goes way back.

I have a couple of friends that are German that have the same last name, one spelled the same, an other with a vowel substitution. Then I ran across another person, German, who had my name, pronounced the same, but spelled closer to the original Middle English, beats the hell out of me.

69 posted on 09/13/2010 12:19:12 PM PDT by Little Bill (`-)
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To: blam

German word streng=strong, hard.
Common surname in Germany ,Scandinavia,Finland .


70 posted on 09/13/2010 12:26:30 PM PDT by Viiksitimali
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To: Little Bill
"You can't go by names. I am an R1b like you but my family name was concentrated in East Anglia and Glostershire and the Western Part of Somerset, an odd distribution and goes way back."

Yup.

My family name is concentrated around York.

71 posted on 09/13/2010 2:06:43 PM PDT by blam
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To: Viiksitimali
"German word streng=strong, hard.
Common surname in Germany ,Scandinavia,Finland."

Thanks. No revelations here.

72 posted on 09/13/2010 2:08:22 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

I am not surprised, a lot of Scandinavian influence in that area.


73 posted on 09/13/2010 2:12:57 PM PDT by Little Bill (`-)
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To: Little Bill
Been a lot of different populations in the British Isles over the last 5,000 years.

My own surname arrived in the area (Ireland) about 700 BC (It's a tribal name and some of them are very old). By King Arthur's time their name/tribal identity applied to a part of Britain now known by various forms of Essex and Wessex.

Arthur is reported to have traded their property to the Saxon invaders for military service.

Folks with my surname hightailed it to Brittany, then the upper reaches of the Rhone Valley. I found an expert in the Gallo languages who lived in one of the old ducal towns in that area and he reported to me that every conceivable spelling of the surname occurred there ~ that I'd found the last place they landed before getting bought out by the Bourbons, some of whom then used their surname when they moved to Scandinavia in the 1500s.

That's when somebody decided some chickeeboo with a lot of Sa'ami ancestry looked really good. Her daddy was the Vassa King ~ and I don't know if he was a Sa'ami but he did a 200+ mile cross country skiing journey to escape Danish assassins!

I suspect he was more Sa'ami than anything else.

What I learned most about doing the study was simple ~ Nobles traveled with an entourage otherwise they always ended up dead. So your surname could end up in some cultural venue you would not have imagined just because some ancestors job was to take along, or to actually be the noble doing the moving.

BTW, even the Vassa King had Bourbon ancestors through one of his Great Grandmothers ~ who arrived in Scandinavia in the late 1400s.

74 posted on 09/13/2010 3:00:15 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
My family has lived in the Cotswold's since we adopted last names, back to at least 1279, Tax Records. The Ville was established in 660 as a Priority, mentioned in the Doomsday book..
75 posted on 09/13/2010 3:21:25 PM PDT by Little Bill (`-)
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To: Little Bill

Wow!


76 posted on 09/13/2010 3:39:24 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Little Bill; All
BTW, one of the more interesting things going on with Googlearth.com is that as they map the world they are including the ancient names. Some of this work was already done in Sweden before Google got to it so for several years I've found you can look up the names of farms and public sites back into the 1300s. France lags a bit, but I'm seeing map names for estates in Google, and that beats the heck out of the Green Books. They don't name all the estates in Michelin but Google does ~ much of the Loire Valley is done, they're working on the Rhone ~ haven't seen it all, and Brittany looks hit or miss ~ they have a gazillion "estates" and dit names.

Many of our ancestor's surnames were just the name of the farm they worked.

77 posted on 09/13/2010 3:46:19 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Viiksitimali

bump


78 posted on 10/10/2010 5:04:30 PM PDT by BerryDingle (I know how to deal with communists, I still wear their scars on my back from Hollywood-Ronald Reagan)
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To: BerryDingle; muawiyah; blam
The Material Cultural Legacy of New Sweden
on the American Frontier

GoogleDocs   PDF


"Five examples of American backwoods frontier material culture, we believe, constitute diagnostic evidence of Finnish influence. An appropriate point to begin is log carpentry, one of the adaptive keys to frontier occupancy"

79 posted on 10/14/2010 9:52:11 AM PDT by Viiksitimali
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To: Viiksitimali
1638 ~ first official ship bringing colonists from areas within grasp of the Swedish Empire ~ Kalmar Nyckel ~ there were 100+ individuals named. 5 Swedes, the rest not identified except by language spoken. The rest show "FIN" or "FINN" and a couple "SWD". Everybody had an approved Christian surname.

These records were not known to exist until most of the source materials regarding New Sweden had been assembled and prepared for further reference.

What is most important is that at that time "FIN" didn't mean "FINLAND" ~ it simply meant someone from the Sapma, or who spoke a language from the Sapma.

I suppose some of them could have been rounded up in what we today call Finland, but they had plenty of these guys following reindeer South into Southern Sweden back in those days.

Swedish Army units simply went out and grabbed FAMILY GROUPS, tents and all. Fur Shur the Kalmar N. was one stinky boat with nearly 300, maybe even 400 people aboard!

By 1700 almost all of the Swedes, Finns, Norwegians ~ whether Norse or Sa'ami ~ had relocated to York County PA to get away from the Quakers and Germans.

The maps you provide show extensive Scandinavian settlement (by all groups) was by the late 1600s.

Now, regarding those log cabins, the Sa'ami, Finns, Swedes and Norwegians all built pretty much the same sort of buildings, still, the oldest extant Scandinavian structures have the "windows" up at the roofline ~ I suspect because of the greater snowloads expected in Scandinavia than were commonly the case in America. The Church of the First Born still puts the windows at the roofline.

There's a later Scandinavian surge that occurs in the 1800 to 1812 period when the Swedes lost control of Finland. Virtually all the Swedish/Finnish noble families controlling Finland EVACUATED to Sweden, or even to America.

I've found one fellow purchasing about 180,000 acres in Southern Indiana then selling bits of it off to his relatives. The New Sweden colony managed to foster numerous daughter colonies in the Long March West in a straight line right out US 50 ~ and they actually met up with this Scandinavian (ELCA) territory ~ Seymour, Indiana for a time had 7 different synods of Lutherans! This always denotes substantial Northern European multi-ethnic settlement.

80 posted on 10/14/2010 10:13:17 AM PDT by muawiyah ("GIT OUT THE WAY" The Republicans are coming)
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To: Viiksitimali
The term "Finn" appears to have not settled down to it's modern meaning until Finland, per se, became important to the Russians (in the 1700s) ~ and you'll notice they took it in the end! (1812).

At the same time the repeated references to what people were doing in the Karelian Isthmus or Kola Peninsula are almost always to people identifiable through archaeological means as members of at least 5 different Eastern Sa'ami tribes.

I'm sure we will eventually be digging up bones and doing DNA sampling to see who were what and where in that area!

Some degree of assimilation cannot be ruled out of course.

81 posted on 10/14/2010 10:24:12 AM PDT by muawiyah ("GIT OUT THE WAY" The Republicans are coming)
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To: muawiyah

Proclamation 5704
By the President of the United States of America
A Proclamation

Finnish settlers first arrived in this country in 1638, when Nordics, many of them natives of Finland or Swedes who spoke Finnish, established the colony of New Sweden in present-day Delaware. They introduced European civilization to the Delaware River Valley and began the transformation of a vast wilderness. Theirs were the pioneer spirit and virtues that are the foundation of our national character. The 350th anniversary of their landing is a most fitting time to celebrate the legacy of America’s Finnish pioneers and their descendants and to recall that the friendship of the United States and Finland has deep historical roots.

To commemorate the relationship between the peoples of Finland and the United States on the 350th anniversary of New Sweden, the Congress, by Public Law 99-602, has designated 1988 as “National Year of Friendship with Finland,” and has authorized and requested the President to issue a proclamation in its observance.

Now, Therefore, I, Ronald Reagan, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim 1988 as National Year of Friendship with Finland. I call upon all Americans to observe the year with appropriate ceremonies and activities.

In Witness Whereof I have hereunto set my hand this seventeenth day of September, in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and eighty-seven, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and twelfth.

RONALD REAGAN
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Proclamation_5704


82 posted on 10/14/2010 10:26:55 AM PDT by Viiksitimali
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To: Viiksitimali
You can get a President to say anything you want, but Ronald Reagan has a large number of Reagan relatives buried on Crane Hill overlooking Seymour ~ and they didn't get to do that by 'splainin to the locals that they were Soumi and not Sa'ami! (as if any of them knew anything about any of that eh).

NOTE: First place I've encountered an Orthodox/Russian cross on a really old grave in Southern Indiana was in a pioneer cemetery on Crane Hill. There are several such burial grounds there. I do believe all the log cabins have been taken down and relocated elsewhere.

83 posted on 10/14/2010 10:37:58 AM PDT by muawiyah ("GIT OUT THE WAY" The Republicans are coming)
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To: Viiksitimali; muawiyah

Excellent info. Thanks.


84 posted on 10/14/2010 10:48:24 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Geographic distribution of the Sami languages:

1. Southern Sami,
2. Ume Sami,
3. Pite Sami,
4. Lule Sami,
5. Northern Sami,
6. Skolt Sami,
7. Inari Sami,
8. Kildin Sami,
9. Ter Sami.

Darkened area represents municipalities that recognize Sami as an official language.

85 posted on 10/14/2010 10:58:02 AM PDT by blam
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To: muawiyah
He has no finnish roots (Ronald Reagan).


The legacy of the 17th century "Forest Finns" lives on in the border areas of Norway and Sweden By some curious historical accident, George W. Bush may have his roots in Finnish Savo Helsingin Sanomat
/ First published in print 19.10.2008

86 posted on 10/14/2010 11:31:27 AM PDT by Viiksitimali
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To: blam

The new Finnish gene atlas places Finns on the worlds genetic map
http://www.fimm.fi/en/scientific_highlights/the_new_finnish_gene_atlas_places_finns_on_the_world-s_genetic_map/


87 posted on 10/14/2010 11:37:09 AM PDT by Viiksitimali
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To: Viiksitimali

It would be nice/helpful if they would publish the haplogroups when they’re talking about the DNA. My mom is haplogroup ‘V’ as are (I’ve read) 52% of the Skolt Sa’ami.

My dad’s mom is haplogroup U5a as are many Sa’ami’s. (My yDNA is R1b)


88 posted on 10/14/2010 11:47:08 AM PDT by blam
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To: Viiksitimali
Didn't say he did, but he has a plentitude of relatives who settled in that particular community long enough to get buried there.

He also has a "mother's side of the family".

BTW, this is Nixon country and depending how you understand his mother's family's name to have been spelled even he may have Sa'ami relatives.

The name was Anglicised as Milhous. The line runs out going back to the 1700s which is not at all unusual ~ but many of Nixon's Southern Indiana cousins actually spelled the name "Mulis" and "Mullis", which reflects a French pronunciation, but it also reflects what a reindeer is called in several Sa'ami languages, and I believe in Finnish rural dialects as well.

With Ronald Reagan, the English forebears (particularly the royals) have been well researched ~ but the Scots less so. Dollars to doughnuts he can track and trace to people living in the Orkneys ~ and they appear to be a genetic isolate ~ Norse in culture and language but of a far more ancient lineage. Then there's "King Frosti" ~ and you tell me whether he's a Suomi or a Sa'ami. All the Orkney Island tribes and families have him in their lineage.

BTW, Nixon's genealogical records appear to have been brought up to date recently ~ probably in that search for Obama's ancestors. I now see that both of these guys are much more closely related than is at all comfortable.

89 posted on 10/14/2010 11:52:15 AM PDT by muawiyah ("GIT OUT THE WAY" The Republicans are coming)
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To: Viiksitimali
Didn't we go through the "Forest Finn" business not too long ago with the Finns who actually did move North to Skolt country (Petsamo, Pechanga River, etc.) ~ that was 1700s stuff.

Still, with the discovery of a major iron bearing region stretching from Central Sweden through Finland and into Russia Sweden (in its guise as The Swedish Empire) began to act more like a major world power than a regional power, and opened the Northland up to many outside forces. The iron ore discoveries appear to have attracted Russian interest in the Fenno-Scandian peninsula. That's what finally brought about the modern state of Finland ~

BTW, there are actually references on the internet to one now extinct Sa'ami language actually being spoken far to the South in the Carpathian mountains in the 1600/1700 period. My impression is there was not a lot of archaeological evidence for that, but the Swedish Empire took effective control of the Carpathians in the 1600s and undoubtedly initiated mining operations there. At their farthest Western extent in Bohemia these mountains had one of the world's truly great silver strikes ~ the Thaler (dollar) was invented here. It would have been uncharacteristic of the Swedes to fail to send in trusted native miners to tap those mountains! When the Czar took over the Carpathians he sent in Cossacks to REMOVE the locals ~ which is why there's no one there speaking Sa'ami these days. The detailed histories of the region that'd give us the information we need are probably still in Hungarian so it'll be a while to provide any follow ups to this.

90 posted on 10/14/2010 12:14:06 PM PDT by muawiyah ("GIT OUT THE WAY" The Republicans are coming)
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To: Viiksitimali

Forest Finn dual geographical DNA project - Y-DNA Memeber Distribution Map

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/forrestfinn/default.aspx?section=ymap


91 posted on 12/29/2010 9:21:46 AM PST by Viiksitimali
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To: BGHater

Santa gets his reindeer from the Sami peoples......


92 posted on 12/29/2010 9:32:40 AM PST by Hot Tabasco (There's only one cure for Obamarrhea......)
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To: blam
Have you uploaded your results to mitosearch.org?

or better option..
(C) If you have tested with the Genographic Project at National Geographic, you can also enter your results in this database. In order to avoid transcription errors you can automatically create a record at Family Tree DNA by following the instructions at the bottom of your personal Genographic page. Once your record is at Family Tree DNA, just follow the instructions on (B).
http://www.mitosearch.org/add_start.asp?uid=
93 posted on 01/17/2011 10:27:37 AM PST by Viiksitimali
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To: Viiksitimali
"...you can automatically create a record at Family Tree DNA by following the instructions at the bottom of your personal Genographic page. "

Yes. I've done that. I just got tired of following it and don't pay any attention to notification of exact matches anymore.

94 posted on 01/17/2011 11:23:17 AM PST by blam
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To: BGHater

Thanks for a wonderful post.


95 posted on 03/06/2011 5:04:21 PM PST by Kenny Bunk (Odd, but I never had to ask, "Who, or what exactly is Dwight Eisenhower?")
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To: Viiksitimali
Lapland's Sami people: how do you decide who is indigenous and who isn't?
The Arctic spring.

Far above the Arctic Circle, at the northern limits of Scandinavia, live one of Europe’s last indigenous peoples, the Sami. They are, or for the most part were, a seminomadic group, migrating with their reindeer from the forests to the northern coast for the short Arctic summer. But modern life has encroached on the Sami’s traditional lifestyle: roads and new national borders have sprung up across centuries-old migration routes, and many of the old ways of life have been lost because of government policies that sent generations of Sami children to boarding schools in the south.

In Finland, Sami campaigners are nearing the end of a long battle to have their right to land that they have inhabited for centuries recognised in law. They propose, in line with the International Labour Organisation’s Indigenous and Tribal Peoples Convention, that control of 20,000 square miles of state land should pass to the Sami parliament in Inari, 800 miles north of Helsinki.

Under this move, backed in September by the UN’s committee for the eradication of racial discrimination, 10 per cent of Finland’s land area would be handed over to 21 representatives voted in by the Sami population. With these new powers, the Sami parliament might then seek compensation for use of its resources, now and in the past.


newstatesman.com

96 posted on 04/03/2013 10:04:53 AM PDT by Viiksitimali
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