Skip to comments.Before the Fall of the Reindeer People
Posted on 12/21/2009 8:32:22 AM PST by BGHater
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I am Swedish and Norwegian but have not got my DNA tested yet. I bought my Aunt that National Geographic test kit for Christmas and she just got it done. When she gets the results she said she will let me know. I am curious to know if I have an Sami in my DNA.
Here is some info on the Sami DNA.
My dad's mom is U5a...same as 9,000 year old Cheddar Man
Excellent information. thanks
When New Sweden RELOCATED out of Lancaster PA (where most of them had moved AFTER the Dutch takeover of New Sweden, they organized 5 Sa'ami settlements in Pennsylvania and 2 in Maryland.
That relocation was in 1700 (from DE/MD to PA/Western MD.
The Sa'ami who lived in Finland's forests and chased reindeer were sometimes mistakenly called "Forest Finns".
But, not to worry, there was a Swede on board the Mayflower ~ but he has been mis-identified as being a guy named Digerie Priest ~ but it's more like he was actually "De La Gard" Bedel or Hoparties.
Remember, the compact was reduced to writing with appropriate names of the signatories some number of years AFTER the voyage.
The fellow identified as Digerie Priest, who was supposedly on the boat, had a young daughter back in Nederland. She's the ancestress of about 1/2 of the members of the Mayflower Society.
BTW, at the time of the settlement in Delaware, Finland was still under development, and was firmly part of the Swedish empire ~ complete with a nobility, etc. In the mid 1600s the term FINN or FIN still applied to a language group spoken from the Southeastern part of today's Finland Northward to the Arctic (those borders not yet having been determined.
Accept the fact the Finnish Finns (the Suomi), and even the Swedish nobility in Finland didn't come to the Americas in large numbers until about 1810 when Finland was being prepped to be given to the Czar as a Grand Duchy. I know where most of those guys in the nobility went. You guys should probably focus your genealogical research on boats arriving after that date.
BTW, people of substantial Sa'ami ancestrycan "prove it" with the x-factor DNA sequence on the female side, the y-chromosome on the father's side, and assorted genes lodged in Chromosome 6 that are peculiar to the Sa'ami, or otherwise known to have originated in that population.
The Skolt nation, the true woodland Sa'ami, lived in general from about where the Norwegian/Russian border is today, across to Penchanga and then down to Lake Inari and east to what is the Russian/Finnish border regions.
The Pomars, also reindeer chasing people, but of Slavic origin ~ usually identified as Russian by most sources, competed for the same sort of range in the Eastern reaches, or Fenns/Finns of Finland.
The Pmars and Sa'ami are clearly identifiable from the standpoint of modern Finns.
Still, when the term "Finn" was ascribed principally to the people living in the Finmark ~ in the North Everywhere, the people who actually lived there were Sa'ami.
The ships logs kept by the Swedes (which ever ones we can find) identified the LANGUAGE spoken by the people on board the book ~ and Sa'ami were always identified as FIN.
It is possible there were a couple of "Finns" somewhere ~ 'cause there's the town of Finland in Lanaster County PA ~ it dates from an early time. It's right up the road from Nickelmines ~ originally settled by Sa'ami from what is now Petsamo Oblast
Only Germans and English people live there now, all the Scandinavians having moved out to avoid disturbances by Quakers.
Otherwise there are many places whose names contain the word "deer" or "union", and they are places established later by Sa'ami who were only lightly supervised, counseled, or ruled over by anyone!
The Skolt Sa'ami were clearly REMOVED from most of their territory in Northern Finland and Russia by Swedes and Russians more interested in the iron ore, and the nickel mines than in people selling baskets and deer hide.
At some point in time it became conventional to refer to the various Scandinavan, Russian and Latvian/Estonian tribesmen living in Finland as Finns.
Before that time Finn was the description of the language and place where the Sa'ami lived.
Note, on Taala, the ones I've known are from the Sa'ami areas in Northern Sweden, Eastern Norway, and Lapland County. What we are talking about here is a case where there's been a fair amount of vocabulary slopover from one language to another.
Until the finding that the Sa'ami were likely the OLDEST population in the Fenno-Scandian peninsula many philologists were of the opinion that the various Sa'ami languages arose out of a common background with Finnish and Estonian.
Once it was determined that the Sa'ami were the OLDEST population in the peninsula, they've gravitated to analysis showing the linguistic flow to be from the Sa'ami languages to the FennoScandian group.
Sapala is the surname of a famous Kven from Norway who had a dog named Balto in Alaska. He and the dog became heros. Regarding the Kvens, they are recent arrivals in the Arctic ~ almost forgot about them ~ but they have a name for the region where they went to fish on the Arctic back during the centuries when they just went up seasonally. They called it "Ruija" which is incredible ~ I had not noticed that before.
This "ruija" is part of the name applicable to the bottom lands near Seymour, Columbus and North Vernon Indiana. Our word is Ama-roosia or Ama-ruija (so maybe you can tell me what the Ama means). The capital city of Lapland County in Finland, in Skolt, is very nearly the same word group but "backwards".
But going beyond Leonard Sappala, I've met many other Sappala surnamed people over the years and they were Sa'ami. Not ruling out a few of them selfidentifying as Norwegian or Finnish, but how about the Keppel family?
It's only worse in the United States where anyone of any origin may be named anything anyone wishes to be named.
I gather we got this tradition from the Scandinavians.
For the last 5 years it has been clear that naming traditions, linguage usage, or citizenship did not necessarily identify the people known as Sa'ami. Check: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1199377/
Subsequently Swedish medical researchers have had a field day discovering more differences ~ not just in a bit of mtDNA here and there, or the frequency of occurrence of different sub-haplogroups within the different Scandinavian populations, but also in Chromosome 6 (I believe that's the one that controls building livers, etc. which are foundational to the human digestive system).
Being Sa'ami doesn't mean you can't be Finnish, or Swedish, or Norwegian, or that you MUST speak one of the old languages ~ not anymore ~ it's a medical question of as much seriousness as whether or not you have blue, or gray, eyes and a Finnish background of any degree anywhere in the world (which has been studied, and found to be related to cholesterol levels).
As everybody on this thread knows you can't just assimilate away distinct genetically transmitted functions ~
Did this start with someone wanting to know what were typical Sa'ami names? I think it did. I suggested some I've found associated with Sa'amis. In the United States Smith and Fisher, Jones, Brown, Williams, and so on are associated with them, and then there are the Keppels!
Took a minute for me to get why that photo was there, but when it sunk in it was hilarious, the delayed reaction was perfect ... Well done
The fact that this word is so short, and so universal suggests it dates from a time in the distant past ~ during the Ice Age, when the Cro-Magnon people moved into Europe (35,000 BC).
In the Indo European group it almost invariably means someting very flat ~ a sheet ~ which may be woven, or processed from leather, or bark, or any other substance.
In Ladino, which preceeded the German based Yiddish used by the Jews, the trades name "Schmidlap" (spelled numerous ways) derives from the Latin base Schmei, meaning "smear" and "de" meaning from or on top of or derivative of, and "lap" meaning sheet, or cloth, or paper. A Schmidlap thereby is the name for a PAPER MAKER.
It's only in Sweden that people have gotten hung up on the "lap" root word having connotations of "rags". Fur Shur, it means nothing but "flat pieces of cloth", or maybe even "birch veneer"!
This same sort of nonsense has taken hold in the United States when it comes to the word "squaw" or "squa". It's is simply the feminine personal form used by the Abenaki and Iriquoian languages. The issue behind the campaign to suppress the term "squaw" is the question of "payments to tribes". The United States every year pays money to all recognized American Indian tribes. The Abenaki, who were the FIRST tribe of Indians to meet Europeans in the Northeast have not yet been fully recognized as a tribe. The ones who are recognized by the government fear that adding the Abenaki to the official lists will deplete the annual allocation for themselves.
People who tell you not to say "squaw" because that means "whore" are either misinformed or they are part of the disinformation campaign designed to exclude the Abenaki Indians from official federal recognition.
I'm sure that eventually the Swedes will figure out that the "Lap" thing was pretty much part of a similar campaign to portray the Lapland people as being "dirty".
My dad's mother's name is Smith and her mtDNA is haplogroup U5a (as are many of the Sa'ami).
My mother, whose maiden name is Strength, has mtDNA haplogroup 'V', as do 52% of the Skoat Sa'ami.
Now, during reading various articles about Sa'ami's, I came across a Sa'ami name Streng (minus the 'th' of Strength).
Anyone have any insight into this name Streng/Strength?
FYI, 9,000 year old Cheddar Man is haplogroup U5.
My yDNA is R1b (wide spread) and my mtDNA is 'V' (rare).
Then, they moved further North, or, as I suspect, the migrating Norse ate them (snork, snork ~ a joke guys).
I have a couple of friends that are German that have the same last name, one spelled the same, an other with a vowel substitution. Then I ran across another person, German, who had my name, pronounced the same, but spelled closer to the original Middle English, beats the hell out of me.
German word streng=strong, hard.
Common surname in Germany ,Scandinavia,Finland .
My family name is concentrated around York.
Thanks. No revelations here.
I am not surprised, a lot of Scandinavian influence in that area.
My own surname arrived in the area (Ireland) about 700 BC (It's a tribal name and some of them are very old). By King Arthur's time their name/tribal identity applied to a part of Britain now known by various forms of Essex and Wessex.
Arthur is reported to have traded their property to the Saxon invaders for military service.
Folks with my surname hightailed it to Brittany, then the upper reaches of the Rhone Valley. I found an expert in the Gallo languages who lived in one of the old ducal towns in that area and he reported to me that every conceivable spelling of the surname occurred there ~ that I'd found the last place they landed before getting bought out by the Bourbons, some of whom then used their surname when they moved to Scandinavia in the 1500s.
That's when somebody decided some chickeeboo with a lot of Sa'ami ancestry looked really good. Her daddy was the Vassa King ~ and I don't know if he was a Sa'ami but he did a 200+ mile cross country skiing journey to escape Danish assassins!
I suspect he was more Sa'ami than anything else.
What I learned most about doing the study was simple ~ Nobles traveled with an entourage otherwise they always ended up dead. So your surname could end up in some cultural venue you would not have imagined just because some ancestors job was to take along, or to actually be the noble doing the moving.
BTW, even the Vassa King had Bourbon ancestors through one of his Great Grandmothers ~ who arrived in Scandinavia in the late 1400s.
Many of our ancestor's surnames were just the name of the farm they worked.
These records were not known to exist until most of the source materials regarding New Sweden had been assembled and prepared for further reference.
What is most important is that at that time "FIN" didn't mean "FINLAND" ~ it simply meant someone from the Sapma, or who spoke a language from the Sapma.
I suppose some of them could have been rounded up in what we today call Finland, but they had plenty of these guys following reindeer South into Southern Sweden back in those days.
Swedish Army units simply went out and grabbed FAMILY GROUPS, tents and all. Fur Shur the Kalmar N. was one stinky boat with nearly 300, maybe even 400 people aboard!
By 1700 almost all of the Swedes, Finns, Norwegians ~ whether Norse or Sa'ami ~ had relocated to York County PA to get away from the Quakers and Germans.
The maps you provide show extensive Scandinavian settlement (by all groups) was by the late 1600s.
Now, regarding those log cabins, the Sa'ami, Finns, Swedes and Norwegians all built pretty much the same sort of buildings, still, the oldest extant Scandinavian structures have the "windows" up at the roofline ~ I suspect because of the greater snowloads expected in Scandinavia than were commonly the case in America. The Church of the First Born still puts the windows at the roofline.
There's a later Scandinavian surge that occurs in the 1800 to 1812 period when the Swedes lost control of Finland. Virtually all the Swedish/Finnish noble families controlling Finland EVACUATED to Sweden, or even to America.
I've found one fellow purchasing about 180,000 acres in Southern Indiana then selling bits of it off to his relatives. The New Sweden colony managed to foster numerous daughter colonies in the Long March West in a straight line right out US 50 ~ and they actually met up with this Scandinavian (ELCA) territory ~ Seymour, Indiana for a time had 7 different synods of Lutherans! This always denotes substantial Northern European multi-ethnic settlement.
At the same time the repeated references to what people were doing in the Karelian Isthmus or Kola Peninsula are almost always to people identifiable through archaeological means as members of at least 5 different Eastern Sa'ami tribes.
I'm sure we will eventually be digging up bones and doing DNA sampling to see who were what and where in that area!
Some degree of assimilation cannot be ruled out of course.
By the President of the United States of America
Finnish settlers first arrived in this country in 1638, when Nordics, many of them natives of Finland or Swedes who spoke Finnish, established the colony of New Sweden in present-day Delaware. They introduced European civilization to the Delaware River Valley and began the transformation of a vast wilderness. Theirs were the pioneer spirit and virtues that are the foundation of our national character. The 350th anniversary of their landing is a most fitting time to celebrate the legacy of America’s Finnish pioneers and their descendants and to recall that the friendship of the United States and Finland has deep historical roots.
To commemorate the relationship between the peoples of Finland and the United States on the 350th anniversary of New Sweden, the Congress, by Public Law 99-602, has designated 1988 as “National Year of Friendship with Finland,” and has authorized and requested the President to issue a proclamation in its observance.
Now, Therefore, I, Ronald Reagan, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim 1988 as National Year of Friendship with Finland. I call upon all Americans to observe the year with appropriate ceremonies and activities.
In Witness Whereof I have hereunto set my hand this seventeenth day of September, in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and eighty-seven, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and twelfth.
NOTE: First place I've encountered an Orthodox/Russian cross on a really old grave in Southern Indiana was in a pioneer cemetery on Crane Hill. There are several such burial grounds there. I do believe all the log cabins have been taken down and relocated elsewhere.
Excellent info. Thanks.
1. Southern Sami,
2. Ume Sami,
3. Pite Sami,
4. Lule Sami,
5. Northern Sami,
6. Skolt Sami,
7. Inari Sami,
8. Kildin Sami,
9. Ter Sami.
Darkened area represents municipalities that recognize Sami as an official language.
The new Finnish gene atlas places Finns on the worlds genetic map
It would be nice/helpful if they would publish the haplogroups when they’re talking about the DNA. My mom is haplogroup ‘V’ as are (I’ve read) 52% of the Skolt Sa’ami.
My dad’s mom is haplogroup U5a as are many Sa’ami’s. (My yDNA is R1b)
He also has a "mother's side of the family".
BTW, this is Nixon country and depending how you understand his mother's family's name to have been spelled even he may have Sa'ami relatives.
The name was Anglicised as Milhous. The line runs out going back to the 1700s which is not at all unusual ~ but many of Nixon's Southern Indiana cousins actually spelled the name "Mulis" and "Mullis", which reflects a French pronunciation, but it also reflects what a reindeer is called in several Sa'ami languages, and I believe in Finnish rural dialects as well.
With Ronald Reagan, the English forebears (particularly the royals) have been well researched ~ but the Scots less so. Dollars to doughnuts he can track and trace to people living in the Orkneys ~ and they appear to be a genetic isolate ~ Norse in culture and language but of a far more ancient lineage. Then there's "King Frosti" ~ and you tell me whether he's a Suomi or a Sa'ami. All the Orkney Island tribes and families have him in their lineage.
BTW, Nixon's genealogical records appear to have been brought up to date recently ~ probably in that search for Obama's ancestors. I now see that both of these guys are much more closely related than is at all comfortable.
Still, with the discovery of a major iron bearing region stretching from Central Sweden through Finland and into Russia Sweden (in its guise as The Swedish Empire) began to act more like a major world power than a regional power, and opened the Northland up to many outside forces. The iron ore discoveries appear to have attracted Russian interest in the Fenno-Scandian peninsula. That's what finally brought about the modern state of Finland ~
BTW, there are actually references on the internet to one now extinct Sa'ami language actually being spoken far to the South in the Carpathian mountains in the 1600/1700 period. My impression is there was not a lot of archaeological evidence for that, but the Swedish Empire took effective control of the Carpathians in the 1600s and undoubtedly initiated mining operations there. At their farthest Western extent in Bohemia these mountains had one of the world's truly great silver strikes ~ the Thaler (dollar) was invented here. It would have been uncharacteristic of the Swedes to fail to send in trusted native miners to tap those mountains! When the Czar took over the Carpathians he sent in Cossacks to REMOVE the locals ~ which is why there's no one there speaking Sa'ami these days. The detailed histories of the region that'd give us the information we need are probably still in Hungarian so it'll be a while to provide any follow ups to this.
Forest Finn dual geographical DNA project - Y-DNA Memeber Distribution Map
Santa gets his reindeer from the Sami peoples......
Yes. I've done that. I just got tired of following it and don't pay any attention to notification of exact matches anymore.
Thanks for a wonderful post.
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