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What can employers do to avoid costs of new Obamacare legislation
December 25, 2009 | CapnJack

Posted on 12/25/2009 8:17:56 AM PST by CapnJack

What can employers across the country, big and small, do to avoid much of the costs of the new Obamacare legislation?

There has been talk about converting employees to contractors. But there are pitfalls to doing this as outlined by this site: http://www.contingentlaw.com/Costly_legal_myths_in_contract.htm

What can employees do to avoid costs (or even protest) this new monstrosity being forced upon them?

If you are a business owner, what are some plans you might inact to reduce the costs and emilinate or minimize any penalties that will come with this legislation?


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Health/Medicine
KEYWORDS: costs; healthcare
I would just like to start a discussion about what employers and employees can do to avoid the massive new costs and penalties that this horrific legislation will impose on the people of this country.

Thanks.

1 posted on 12/25/2009 8:17:56 AM PST by CapnJack
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To: CapnJack

This should be the link to the website I mentioned above

http://www.contingentlaw.com/Costly_legal_myths_in_contract.htm


2 posted on 12/25/2009 8:21:12 AM PST by CapnJack
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To: CapnJack
"I would just like to start a discussion about what employers and employees can do to avoid the massive new costs and penalties that this horrific legislation will impose..."

As an employee and with the expansion of Medicaid there is not much I can do because the payroll department will just take more from my paycheck for the Medicaid cost increase. They have me over a barrel.

3 posted on 12/25/2009 8:21:32 AM PST by avacado
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To: CapnJack

simple solutions to complex problems:

Closing the doors and retiring, telling everyone to go see Obama for job and healthcare, I QUIT, It is not my responsibility to pay anything for anyone.


4 posted on 12/25/2009 8:27:59 AM PST by eyeamok
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To: CapnJack

If I were an employer that provided health care, I would increase the amount of their paychecks as of today for the amount I, the employer, contribute. It would then be up to the individual to either purchase their own care of pay the $750 annual fine.


5 posted on 12/25/2009 8:29:29 AM PST by CTOCS (...and man will live forever more, because of Christmas Day.....)
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To: avacado

“As an employee and with the expansion of Medicaid there is not much I can do because the payroll department will just take more from my paycheck for the Medicaid cost increase. They have me over a barrel.”

One of the simplest things an employee can do is to increase deductions (especially if you usually get taxes back from the feds and/or state) and put the extra money in your paycheck into an IRA, bonds, gold or a savings account. You will keep the money and depending on the vehicle you choose, will earn far better returns on your money and have some available should you end up owing. And as an added bonus, the gubmint doesn’t get to use your money to give to someone else until the last minute.

Make sure that you compare what you will pay by filing short and long forms. Sometimes you end up better off with one than the other and if your income changes, that could also change.

I am making every effort to reduce my taxes, staying legal, but usinf every available avoidance...tax accountants are sometimes a really good investment (no I am not one and am not shilling for them) and fees (mostly deductible) may save you more than doing them yourself.


6 posted on 12/25/2009 8:29:46 AM PST by jessduntno (Have you noiced that when TOTUS flutters and gets stuck, POtuS becomes a futtering stuck?)
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To: avacado

Having owned businesses before, I would just look at my profit/loss estimates. Sorry, but I expect a certain amount of profit to maintain a certain standard of living. A few of my employees would be out of work. The ones I suspected voted for Obama would be first on the list. They voted him in they should be the first to experience the benefits of having done so. Of course I would make sure to let them know how under Bush their jobs had never been threatened but under Obama I had no other choice.


7 posted on 12/25/2009 8:35:36 AM PST by Bad Jack Bauer (Fat and Bald? I was BORN fat and bald, thank you very much!)
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To: CapnJack

Only hire part time or 1099 ee’s for one. That is what they do in Hawaii. Also move headquarters offshor.


8 posted on 12/25/2009 8:39:23 AM PST by screaminsunshine (!!)
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To: eyeamok

Right. Fire everyone and buy robots and PC that make the decisions.

That’s the only way to get out of the healthcare tentacles. Or close up shop all together and leave town.


9 posted on 12/25/2009 8:41:04 AM PST by K-oneTexas (I'm not a judge and there ain't enough of me to be a jury. (Zell Miller, A National Party No More))
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To: jessduntno

I am up to 12 exemptions for a single person. I intend to send an IOU in with my return...just for fun.


10 posted on 12/25/2009 8:41:10 AM PST by screaminsunshine (!!)
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To: CapnJack

Defeat it before it becomes law.


11 posted on 12/25/2009 8:47:31 AM PST by Reagan69 (The only thing SHOVEL-READY since BO's stimulus has been MICHAEL JACKSON (tammy bruce))
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To: CapnJack

And who wrote this site? When they refer to laid off workers as LAIN off workers I am already suspicious. Moreover, this site has to do with trying to understand who is consider an independent contractor and who is a company employee. Most of those questions have been settled by litagation


12 posted on 12/25/2009 8:47:46 AM PST by the long march
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To: screaminsunshine

“I am up to 12 exemptions for a single person. I intend to send an IOU in with my return...just for fun.”

Heh heh...I am exploring options for declaring citizens of non-tax paying states and those who are excluded from paying for medicare and medicaid as dependents...


13 posted on 12/25/2009 8:48:23 AM PST by jessduntno (Have you noiced that when TOTUS flutters and gets stuck, POtuS becomes a futtering stuck?)
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To: CapnJack

A while back, Glenn Beck had one of the commies who is working for Obama, I forget his name, on his show for an interview. During the interview he revealed that he had owned a maid service several years back and he got busted by the State of California for having all the people who worked for him as 1099 contractors. The state apparently thought he should have had them as employees, and paying payroll taxes. Of course he didn’t admit that part of it and tried to turn it into an issue of how workers are abused.

The short of it is that very small businesses might be able to get away with doing 1099s, but once they reach a ceratin size they’ll start being punished for it.


14 posted on 12/25/2009 8:50:22 AM PST by dajeeps
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To: Bad Jack Bauer

You are totally correct. The idiots in D C dont have a clue
how things work. Why should anyone have a business that does not make a profit.
Case closed


15 posted on 12/25/2009 8:52:01 AM PST by southland ( 1 John 4:4 , Zec 12:9, PS 121, PRO 3.5,6)
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To: jessduntno

Hey great idea. Claim 100 million dependents and calculate your refound of all taxes you have ever paid. I like it.


16 posted on 12/25/2009 8:52:04 AM PST by screaminsunshine (!!)
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To: CapnJack

I can tell you, from experience — do NOT bother calling them ‘contractors.’ The IRS is hot on the trail of that, and you could have someone who works for you one hour a week, as we do in our community orchestra, and they will call him an EMPLOYEE and demand back withholding, etc.

buzzards..


17 posted on 12/25/2009 8:54:19 AM PST by bboop (We don't need no stinkin' VAT)
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To: dajeeps; All

I’ve heard there are some size limitations. Keep the number of employees below the critical number (10 I think) and the garbage doesn’t kick in.


18 posted on 12/25/2009 8:55:20 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

“I’ve heard there are some size limitations.”

Size matters...stay lean and mean...


19 posted on 12/25/2009 8:57:49 AM PST by jessduntno (Have you noiced that when TOTUS flutters and gets stuck, POtuS becomes a futtering stuck?)
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To: CapnJack
Trim the work force; employ only part time and/or temporary employees (avoid providing any benefits at all; forcing the employees to pick up the entire premium. I’ve even heard that some businesses may just pay the fines...that it may be cheaper for them to do so, rather than paying for and providing health insurance for their employees. I don’t know about that one, but it sounds plausible.

By the way, at my last job, all of us had to pay our own premiums. We had group insurance, but everyone — single, married, with dependents — all had to have premiums deducted from their pay. I understand that is becoming the norm now; expect more businesses to do the same once Obama Death Care becomes law.

20 posted on 12/25/2009 8:59:01 AM PST by fatnotlazy
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To: CapnJack

That’s easy. Move to Nebraska. Since the sell out Ben Nelson got an exemption for everyone in his state I can’t see what will stop businesses from moving there in droves. I foresee most new businesses and many old ones moving there just for that reason. Also anyone who is self employed or work at home will also be wise to do so. I hope the people of Nebraska are ready to give up their slow pace lifestyle for the hustle bustle of a growing population and all the crime and other problems that go with it.


21 posted on 12/25/2009 9:00:54 AM PST by TonyM (E)
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To: the long march
I found that page from the www.contingentlaw.com site.

It is just giving you some things to think about if you (an employer) is planning to convert employees to contractors.

Since there are a lot of pitfalls to this process it seems the gov’t has employers over a barrel.

I would assume that it would be best to begin “contracting” people instead of hiring them.

I would also think that a larger company might break themselves up into small independent companies so that the worker limits would be below gov’t thresholds and avoid some of the new fines.

22 posted on 12/25/2009 9:10:01 AM PST by CapnJack
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To: CapnJack

Thats is the ticket. Break your business into smaller companies with less employees in each company.


23 posted on 12/25/2009 9:16:01 AM PST by scooby321
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To: CapnJack

The rigid labor laws are a major factor in limiting the recovery. The employee/contractor laws have been a problem for some time but this recession is highlighting their destructive effects. The rats have substantially increased the cost of employment in a variety of ways. With reasonable freedom to choose your status, many individuals could become contractors. I understand that many individuals would prefer to be employees but being a contractor beats the food bank. You can still be a contractor but the rules are so strict that many companies prefer to offshore rather than use contractors here.


24 posted on 12/25/2009 9:20:34 AM PST by businessprofessor
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To: screaminsunshine
“Only hire part time or 1099 ee’s for one”

That is exactly what I plan to do. I do not plan to rehire full time employees I laid off last year.

25 posted on 12/25/2009 9:27:03 AM PST by martinidon
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To: CapnJack

Do what I did two years ago - close and move overseas. No more US employees or US presence eliminates most of the headaches created and coming. Pretty much any industry can do this, save hands-on service (such as janitorial or construction). Good way to go!

Oh, and a little tip - Hong Kong does NOT tax income of any foreign owned HK company if that income is earned outside the territory of HK. Meaning if you are an HK company and perform services/sell products anywhere outside of HK, that income is essentially tax free. Uncle Sam still wants his share, but at least you can avoid double-taxation. And there are LEGAL ways to defer those taxes a LONG time - there’s a reason most big businesses have significant overseas subsidiaries.


26 posted on 12/25/2009 9:39:51 AM PST by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: CapnJack

AFIC: all my new employees will be contract temps. As much work as possible will be configured as piecework. As much as possible will be done via the Mechanical Turk, offshore.
I will be happy to employ Americans when I am not punished for doing so. Meanwhile, this is my way of going on General Strike. People who object should help me to change the Regime.


27 posted on 12/25/2009 9:42:51 AM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: CapnJack

I hope every stupid lib who were out there jumping up and down for Obama and health care reform loses their job and everything they own.


28 posted on 12/25/2009 9:55:25 AM PST by TonyM (E)
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To: CapnJack

It is simply easier to cancel all health insurance, pay the 8% fine, and be done with it


29 posted on 12/25/2009 10:03:24 AM PST by the long march
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To: TonyM

I don’t really think they have any idea what is about to come at them. Business owners are fed up and many of them have more than enough to retire. They’ll just close up shop and all those idiots with Obama stickers on their cars will join the ranks of the unemployed.


30 posted on 12/25/2009 10:29:07 AM PST by McGavin999
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To: martinidon

You can not find a full time job in Kona. Most locals work two or three part time.


31 posted on 12/25/2009 11:07:10 AM PST by screaminsunshine (!!)
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To: CapnJack

Don’t hire any entry level or recent college grads. Only hire highly skilled and experienced workers who have motivation, drive and ability.

That’s what most folks will do - wait ‘til the carnage of the Obama generation works itself out with a lost decade for the young dopes who voted in droves for hope/change.


32 posted on 12/25/2009 1:32:02 PM PST by sbMKE
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To: CapnJack; SierraWasp; Grampa Dave; SouthTexas; NormsRevenge

Do we really know what is in the bill? My son has 15 employees and is already bleeding from the medical insurance he provides for them and the younger ones could care less. At my age I’m more concerned about the level of service I receive and will drug companies continue to bring new drugs to market and will medial devices continue to improve for the family that follows me...


33 posted on 12/25/2009 3:18:54 PM PST by tubebender (Some minds are like concrete Thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: tubebender
“I’m more concerned about the level of service I receive and will drug companies continue to bring new drugs to market and will medial devices continue to improve for the family that follows me...”

I work for a small medical devices company on the north shore of Mass.

I was talking to the comptroller of the company on Wednesday and asked jokingly if he has set up the G/L account on the SAP software system for the new 5% revenue tax on medical devices with this new Obamination healthcare bill.

He said not yet, but will as soon as the bill passes.

That will be about $2.5 million from our small company (approx $50 million in revenues / year).

He said the company will probably have to drop a few new products we have been working on and layoff the people in those projects. We'll just be focusing on our existing products and hope to get the couple of products we have going through FDA approval, online as soon as possible ... else these too will be hit due to the new tax.

34 posted on 12/25/2009 4:12:09 PM PST by CapnJack
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To: driftdiver

“I’ve heard there are some size limitations. Keep the number of employees below the critical number (10 I think) and the garbage doesn’t kick in.”

That might be an effective short term strategy, but they can always pass cardcheck and then maybe not even that will help.

I haven’t looked at the tax structure in either of the bills. But I did find a spot in Scary Reid’s amendment where employers can provide basic catatstrophic insurance plan and provide a voucher so employees can purchase a supplemental plan on their own if they need more than that. In that case, the payroll taxes will still have to be paid, but getting it down to the basics on the part of the employer might offset the total cost by not being involved in myriad of plans, choices, and administration of them that have been traditionally made on behalf of employees.

It’s hard to be optimistic in the face of such tyranny and arrogance on behalf of our political system. I can see this voucher thing as having a good chance of becoming the norm, and perhaps a silver lining to all of the other really bad stuff that comes with it.

Either way, this bill is very bad, jobs and businesses will be destroyed because of it and that is never something that should be forced nor celebrated by anyone.


35 posted on 12/26/2009 3:34:05 AM PST by dajeeps
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To: CapnJack

I am going to not hire more than 5 employees at my plant, we have 10 concrete mixers but rarely use more than 4-5 in the last couple of years.

This is going to cause a catastrophic amount of lost jobs across America.

Employers will divide their company into smaller downsized outfits, they will charge more and pay less wages.


36 posted on 12/26/2009 3:43:20 AM PST by Eye of Unk (Phobos, kerdos, and doxa, said the Time Traveler. “Fear, self-interest, and honor.”)
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To: CapnJack

The solution is simple. Move out of the country.


37 posted on 12/26/2009 3:46:46 AM PST by meyer (Government health care = national strike.)
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To: dajeeps

The taxes kick in in 2010 but most companies have already made their plan changes. No time to plan or organize so I’m guessing we’ll get screwed. Big companies probably won’t be impacted all that much. I’ve already told my folks they should expect some changes.


38 posted on 12/26/2009 4:29:04 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Eye of Unk

the ‘good’ news is demand will be down so you won’t need as many employees.


39 posted on 12/26/2009 4:33:04 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: CapnJack

I wonder what dem congressmen would think reading these comments.

Would they be so blinded by partisan politics or the idea of creating a larger dependent class it wouldn’t faze them?

Or would they realize the destruction they are about to foist on the country. At least consider this?


40 posted on 12/26/2009 5:02:36 AM PST by Vinnie (You're Nobody 'Til Somebody Jihads You)
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To: CapnJack

Ask the bureaucrat to visit and then poof.....he is gone


41 posted on 12/26/2009 5:17:10 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Lukenbach Texas is barely there)
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