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John Birch Society and Mormon Prophecies about the US Constitution
Evangel Magazine (?) | 2002 | Dennis A. Wright

Posted on 01/10/2010 12:47:27 AM PST by CondoleezzaProtege

"...G. Vance Smith, a committed Mormon, now leads the Society. Vance Smith is systematically removing people from leadership positions within the John Birch Society and replacing them with Mormons. One gathers that Smith does not feel that he is accountable to the membership concerning his reasons for the replacement of longtime leadership. There seems to be no accountability factor. Longtime Birchers are leaving the Society en masse.

There seems to be a major concern that the Society is fast becoming a puppet for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. One document that I received suggests that Smith's course of action is tied in with his Mormon belief that, "The time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang upon a single thread."

Note the words of Mormon Prophet Brigham Young:

"Will the Constitution be destroyed? No; it will be held inviolate by this people; and, as Joseph Smith said, 'The time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang upon a single thread. At that critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from threatened destruction.' It will be so." (Journal of Discourses,7:15.) Young also made another "prophecy" about the same circumstances: "Brethren and sisters, our friends wish to know our feelings towards the Government. I answer, they are first rate, and we will prove it too, as you will see if you only live long enough, for that we shall live to prove it is certain, and when the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the "Mormon" Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forward and do it." (Journal of Discourses, 2:182.)

There is yet a third voice explaining this" prophecy," and that is the voice of Orson Hyde, a contemporary of Joseph Smiths because he was one of his Twelve Apostles, who wrote this, also quoted in Journal of Discourses:

"It is said that brother Joseph in his lifetime declared that the Elders of this Church should step forth at a particular time when the Constitution should be in danger, and rescue it, and save it. I believe he said something like this - that the time would come when the country would be in danger of an overthrow; and said he, If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church. I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it." (Journal of Discourses, 6:152) Does Vance Smith believe that this is a prophecy made by his Prophet that has yet to be fulfilled, and does he see the Birch Society in all of its endeavors striving to be the group to "step forward and do it" to save the Constitution in junction with the LDS Church? Is this why he is systematically removing longtime Birchers from leadership positions and replacing them with Mormons? Time will tell."


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Religion; Society; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: antimormonthread; birchers; christians; cpac; cpac2010; cult; cultists; evangelical; jbs; johnbirchsociety; ldschurch; mittromney; mittwhits; mormon; romney; teaparty
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To: ansel12
I don't know if that's the pic you wanted to post, given the topic... Washington praying at Valley Forge?

That was painted by a **shock** Mormon!!!

51 posted on 01/10/2010 4:43:39 PM PST by Ripliancum (I'm not ignoring you, just taking good counsel. - Proverbs 15:1-2)
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To: Ripliancum

What does the religion of the painter have to do with anything, I was pointing out that Washington was a Christian, something that you were implying that he was not.

Was that your Mormonism speaking? Why is this the first response from you when I have posted many political posts pertaining to Mitt Romney and his political liberalism to you, today?

Do you discuss politics or only Mormon topics?


52 posted on 01/10/2010 4:52:30 PM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: ansel12
Um, no. I said Washington was a Mason, which he was. The Mormon bashers usually equally rail against the Masons.
53 posted on 01/10/2010 4:55:45 PM PST by Ripliancum (I'm not ignoring you, just taking good counsel. - Proverbs 15:1-2)
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To: Ripliancum; nonsporting
Of course, then they would have to throw under the bus all the Founding Fathers who were Masons, including George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, John Paul Jones, Robert Livingston, Paul Revere, etc.
When done with them and the Mormons, they can then move on to whatever else doesn’t fit their definition.

Who would have thrown the Christian, George Washington under the bus, and who is they?

54 posted on 01/10/2010 5:03:44 PM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: ansel12

And I’m not a big Romney fan, again, why should I rise to useless bait?


55 posted on 01/10/2010 5:04:59 PM PST by Ripliancum (I'm not ignoring you, just taking good counsel. - Proverbs 15:1-2)
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To: ansel12

So you don’t think that Mason’s are anti Christian? Most “traditional” Christians do.


56 posted on 01/10/2010 5:06:49 PM PST by Ripliancum (I'm not ignoring you, just taking good counsel. - Proverbs 15:1-2)
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To: Ripliancum

I do know know that Christians know that George Washington was a Christian, regardless of what you keep hacking at, and I notice that you seem only to focus on what you perceive as religious issues, not politics.

I never baited you in my posts about Mitt Romney, those were substantive, political posts that you would not answer, now I can’t get rid of you because you keep wanting to bash Christianity, Christians and our founding fathers, and promote Mormonism.


57 posted on 01/10/2010 5:15:49 PM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: ansel12

Wow, interesting interpretations of my posts and lack of same.

Don’t worry, consider yourself “rid” of me.


58 posted on 01/10/2010 5:21:55 PM PST by Ripliancum (I'm not ignoring you, just taking good counsel. - Proverbs 15:1-2)
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To: All

Lest you all have too much fun here with this conspiracy thread by it’self, look what someone else just posted.

McCain aide: Palin believed candidacy ‘God’s plan’

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2425446/posts


59 posted on 01/10/2010 5:30:13 PM PST by Ripliancum (I'm not ignoring you, just taking good counsel. - Proverbs 15:1-2)
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To: Ripliancum
The Mormon bashers usually equally rail against the Masons.

Really?

60 posted on 01/10/2010 5:38:49 PM PST by ejonesie22
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To: Ripliancum
So you don’t think that Mason’s are anti Christian? Most “traditional” Christians do.

Really?

61 posted on 01/10/2010 5:41:17 PM PST by ejonesie22
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To: Ripliancum

Look I know that you only just recently signed up to promote Mitt Romney and Mormonism(although you will not discuss Romney) and that you are not a fan of Governor Palin, but trying to hijack a thread with an unrelated post of another thread link seems a little over the top.


62 posted on 01/10/2010 6:10:47 PM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: cva66snipe
 
Christ condemned one thing more than anything else and that was hypocrisies of the leaders.
 
So true: HE did.
 
And the APOSTLES felt quite strongly about some things as well...
 



Acts 2:42
  They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
 
 
 Acts 4:2
 They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead.
 
 
Acts 5:42
  Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.
 
 
Acts 13:1
  In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul.
 
 
 Acts 13:12
   When the proconsul saw what had happened, he believed, for he was amazed at the teaching about the Lord.
 
 
Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?
 
 
Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
 
 
Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 
 
Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
 
 
1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
 
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.
 
 
Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.
 
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 
 
2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
 
 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
 
Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
 
 
Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
 
 
Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
 
 
 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.
 
 
 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 
 
2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

63 posted on 01/10/2010 6:11:28 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Ripliancum
 
You guys have so much fun bashing Mormons over in the Religion Forum.
 
Where else?
 
We can't afford a statue!!


 
 The LDS Organization® prints Hundreds of Thousands of THIS yearly!

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
 
 
The LDS headquarters; in the heart of a modern  US city, visited by THOUSANDS daily, has this placed in prominent view:
 
 
...which reiterates the charge that
"they were all wrong; they teach for doctrines the commandments of men".

64 posted on 01/10/2010 6:13:53 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Ripliancum
 
I see absolutely no value in rising to your bait, or anyone else’s. Do what you will.
 
Ok; we will.
 

2 Corinthians 11:12
And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.

65 posted on 01/10/2010 6:15:28 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Ripliancum; All
If you feel so inclined, ask the mods to move it to the religion forum so you can do what you like to do unbridled.

I don't feel restrained - how 'bout the rest of you Flying Inmen? (and ladies; too)

66 posted on 01/10/2010 6:17:02 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ansel12
No many of today's churches by in large are fallen. Why? Look in the pulpits and see who they allow. Look at their doctrines and see what they condone or support. Deism as far as I know exist today in this nation mainly in one church and that is Unitarian. Thiomas Jefferson {edited} the Bible used there. The practice of Deism although the theory had existed for ages and was strong in the UK became prominent from around 1600-1800 here. It died out and not many it seems stayed with it for life.

As for the founding father beliefs? I'd say it's like most people many as they age become more conservative in their religious beliefs both by reading and through personal experience and soon find out for themselves by revelation through The Holy Spirit the truth.

Churches today in many places are falling or fallen and it's beyond a any one denomination problem many have been affected and many have such within their clergy. The more conservative churches are removing such from their leadership positions. Others of the more liberal sects are chosing them as pastors.

Ones allowing such abandon even the very basic laws and commandments GOD gave. I'm talking about the adoption of policies supporting gay marriages, gay clergy, etc. But the one church I see as doing the most harm to the nation as a whole is the United Church of Christ. Look up separation of church and state and see who heads it and profession. Not to be confused with the far more conservative Church of Christ. As I understand it maybe 3 of the 55 were not actually active members of a church. Then again neither am I.

If anyone is trully seeking and reading the Bible I don't think they could remain a Deist for long. There is but one sin which can not be forgiven a person. Blasphemy of The Holy Spirit which brings the absolute rejection of Jesus Christ. It is a state of ones heart so hardened toward GOD it will not change.

67 posted on 01/10/2010 6:18:11 PM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Ripliancum
The Mormon bashers usually equally rail against the Masons.

There goes our SINGLE ISSUE status!

68 posted on 01/10/2010 6:18:54 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Ripliancum
Palin believed candidacy ‘God’s plan’

Still DOES!

Will still next year, too!

69 posted on 01/10/2010 6:20:11 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: cva66snipe
As I understand it maybe 3 of the 55 were not actually active members of a church. Then again neither am I.

That was meant to be posted about the formers of the U.S. Constitution.

70 posted on 01/10/2010 6:25:31 PM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: cva66snipe
Not really what I was asking about, unless your answer was that all the founding fathers were Christians and that they, and the people they served were more Christian than today.

"Fifty two men of the 55 who formed the Constitution were active Christians. Although many of them by today's church standards would be rejected because they were Deist."
"Which ones were not Christians and which ones would not have been allowed in our current Christian churches? You think that current America is more Christian than our founding fathers, and presumably the Americans that they served? "

71 posted on 01/10/2010 6:25:46 PM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: ansel12

Happy clappy “Yuz Jay-Sus luvs me” Churchianity is a product of the Second Great Awakening, and was largely a movement of the rural masses. The founding fathers were a combination of deists, congregationalists, and Episcopalians. All were suspicious of clerical influence on the government, and most had no love for Rome.


72 posted on 01/10/2010 6:28:20 PM PST by Clemenza (Remember our Korean War Veterans)
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To: Clemenza

Of course they were almost all Protestant Christians, I think that 2 or 3 were Catholic Christians.

I’m not aware of any of them that denied Christ, or that were atheists.


73 posted on 01/10/2010 6:31:33 PM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: Elsie
LDS is a relatively young church. It has radically changed from the days of it's beginnings. I don't believe they are Pagans nor headed to hell for that matter. All young churches have a learning period and it was no different with even those Christ chose and immediate ones to follow. Look at some of their petty senseless arguments amongst themselves. Arguments that today we see as trivial and why was it such a big deal with them. The cutting of ones skin as an example {just trying to be polite OK :>} Look at what it finally took to get them to leave Jerusalem and begin The Great Commission. What were they doing early on and then what were they told to do by Christ? Did he say stay in Judea and live together? He smites the flock and they scattered taking The Gospel with them.

The Holy Spirit will lead all people and all churches who seek the Lord to the truth in the Lords anointed time. Considering the LDS church of today vs it's early days a lot has happened and changed in a short period of time. Remember as well even the Israelites took many, many, years to teach. We want things right here and right now changed. GOD gave us time for our own needs but as such our time and GOD's time are not the same thing.

74 posted on 01/10/2010 6:40:52 PM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: ansel12
LOL. The founding fathers the ones who turned to Christ for salvation would be as Christian as The Pope or Billy Graham. or the missionary serving in China. Nothing makes one person more Christian than another. That judgment and decision can come only from GOD after we depart here when our deeds are judged and we receive reward or rebuke from GOD. GOD does not play favorites in that respect.
75 posted on 01/10/2010 6:47:36 PM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Elsie

Is this the White Moose prophecy?


76 posted on 01/10/2010 7:11:12 PM PST by Ripliancum (I'm not ignoring you, just taking good counsel. - Proverbs 15:1-2)
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To: FromLori; colorcountry; greyfoxx39; Utah Binger; Spunky; Appleby; Don Carlos; Hat-Trick; ...

Someone on here told me not too long ago they were a member for years and then quit.

=- - - - - - -

There are several EX-LDS here on FR.


77 posted on 01/10/2010 8:54:03 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Ripliancum; Godzilla; Elsie; ejonesie22; greyfoxx39; Colofornian

Time to move on... It’s been fun people.

- - - - - - -
Way to defend the faith, Rip.

LoL.


78 posted on 01/10/2010 8:55:46 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: T Minus Four; Jabba the Nutt

As I understand it, every male Mormon in good standing over the age of 12 is an “elder”.

- - - - - - -
Every “worthy” male member of the LDS over the age of 12 is ordained to the LDS priesthood. “Elder” is one of the offices of the second or “higher” priesthood.

LDS priesthood goes like this:

# Deacon - Age 12
# Teacher - Age 14
# Priest - Age 14
# Elder - Around age 18/19; for converts soon after baptism
# High priest - Adult men usually after they have been called as a “bishop”.


79 posted on 01/10/2010 9:00:23 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut

got it


80 posted on 01/10/2010 9:01:09 PM PST by T Minus Four
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To: Jabba the Nutt; T Minus Four

CORRECTION: Priest is 16, not 14 as in my prev post.

LDS priesthood goes like this:

# Deacon - Age 12
# Teacher - Age 14
# Priest - Age 16
# Elder - Around age 18/19; for converts soon after baptism
# High priest - Adult men usually after they have been called as a “bishop”.


81 posted on 01/10/2010 9:09:38 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

I am not Mormon, nor am I a member of John Birch. I went to the website and they claim John McManus is the President at least according to the Press section dated 1/9/10. There is no Vance Smith listed on Board or in contact. Not sure what the true story is....


82 posted on 01/10/2010 9:11:04 PM PST by bushwon ("If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait till it is free"--PJ O'rourke)
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To: bushwon

Vance Smith was president until 2005.


83 posted on 01/10/2010 9:37:03 PM PST by CondoleezzaProtege ("When I survey the wondrous cross...")
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To: ansel12
Jefferson was far from being a Christian in the sense that you and I understand it. There was one Catholic signer of the Declaration (Charles Carroll) who was there largely because he represented a rather prominent Maryland family. If you read the writings of Adams and Jefferson, you will find that they were not fans of, what Jefferson referred to as "Priestly-ridden people."

Deists, un-Churched, Congregationalist, Episcopalian, or Quaker, few of the founders had anything in common with the fundamentalist charismatic faith so common in the megachurches today, and had nothing in common (philosophically or religiously) with the Church of Rome. Anything to the contrary is ahistorical revisionism at its worst. For a true lesson on fundamentalist protestant revivalism, see the Second Great Awakening to get a better clue as to why we are where we are today religiously in the US, and how the Bible Belt became the Bible Belt.

84 posted on 01/10/2010 11:34:38 PM PST by Clemenza (Remember our Korean War Veterans)
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To: cva66snipe
It has radically changed from the days of it's beginnings.

But WHY??

THEY are the one's who claim to have the RESTORED GOSPEL!

There has been NOTHING in their 'doctrine' that has changed - why have they?

THEY are the ones who proclaim that the jots and tittles are SO important; why do they IGNORE GOD's word in D&C 132?

THEY are the ones who claim that their Temple Rites® are so IMPORTANT; yet they have CHANGED even those!


Led by GOD or MEN?

The reader will decide.

85 posted on 01/11/2010 4:33:30 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: cva66snipe
 
That judgment and decision can come only from GOD after we depart here when our deeds are judged and we receive reward or rebuke from GOD.


John 6

28. Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
29. Jesus answered,
"The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."


86 posted on 01/11/2010 4:36:57 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Ripliancum
Is this the White Moose prophecy?

No; this is the antithesis of the ...

"WE believed it before we didn't believe it." claim of present day MORMON leadership.

87 posted on 01/11/2010 4:38:26 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: reaganaut

So then; them boys are GENTILES ‘til they turn 12??

Don’t the GIRLS get any special labels?


88 posted on 01/11/2010 4:39:52 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: reaganaut
# High priest - Adult men usually after they have been called as a “bishop”.
 
 
No thanks: I already HAVE a High Priest.

Hebrews 9:8-12

The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

[Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.

But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].

 

89 posted on 01/11/2010 4:47:25 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Clemenza
Jefferson was far from being a Christian in the sense that you and I understand it.

I don't know how you can speak for me. I don't argue theology with a complicated, dead genius from 200 years ago that was not a religious leader but instead was a president.

When a guy is a baptized Christian that attends Christian church religiously, that has lifelong church membership and is educated by, married by, and buried by his Christian leaders, then I assume the guy was a Christian.

90 posted on 01/11/2010 7:33:33 AM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

Depends on your view of the terminology.

The Bible, in my belief, is a step beyond “inspired” or “divinely inspire”, but is the very real Word of God, penned by men, but lead by God Himself.

The use of the term “divinely inspired” can correctly be attributed to more than the Bible. Have you ever been inspired by anything to take a course of action? To write a letter? To DO something?

Further, has God ever inspired humans to do anything beyond penning the original manuscripts of the Bible (the only complete and perfect version of the Bible is that which was originally penned, but now has been lost)?

Some of our founding fathers and even later leaders called the foundation of these United States as being from Divine Providence. When you consider that the odds were overwhelmingly against the young American nation in her war for independence, one can see that the eventual victory came at the hand of God.

Is it a stretch that God could “inspire” men to write the founding documents of a nation His Divine Hand lead to independence? After all, many of the authors of the Constitution were Christian, or at minimum, held to a firm belief in deity and HIS providential hand.

Now - to say that the Constitution is the infallible Word of God - yes that would most definitely be blasphemous.

But the term “divinely inspired” does not necessarily = “God-breathed”. I hold the “God-breathed” view of the Bible, but believe HE has inspired people to take courses of action (maybe even including to put together the best constitution a nation has ever been formed under).

Glen Beck was not trying to equate the US Constitution with scripture in any way - just demonstrating that God had to have had a guiding hand in the writing of it. Nothing blasphemous about that.


91 posted on 01/11/2010 7:33:48 AM PST by TheBattman (They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature...)
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To: cva66snipe
All young churches have a learning period

How can a church whose founder supposedly was given the "restored gospel" directly from God have a learning period?

Those who read the book for the first time will find within its pages the course laid out for eternal life. They will be able to conclude, with the testimony of Joseph Smith that "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct book of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man could get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book."

'Most correct book'

92 posted on 01/11/2010 7:38:30 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Obamacare: Old folks don't deserve healthcare. They use up too many carbon credits just breathing.)
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To: ansel12

I’ll throw this in as well. To me this all says that he was a church going Christian, of whom religious experts can sit around and debate his eccentricities or imperfections, or his vanities, etc, but they can not just decide that the man was not a Christian and start teaching that our founding fathers were not of the Christian faith.

“He served on the vestry, or governing body, of Episcopal parishes. He attended church regularly, and often those churches were Episcopalian. He contributed to Episcopal churches regularly, and he had his children not only baptized but also married under Anglican and Episcopal auspices.”


93 posted on 01/11/2010 7:40:58 AM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: Elsie

Chocolate moose prophecy

94 posted on 01/11/2010 8:44:25 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege
"The main point is: Mormons believe in prophecies specifically about the US Constitution and a time where there will be a spiritual duty for Mormons to rise up and "preserve it." I find this pretty interesting."

If it was not put in the "Doctrine and Covenants" it is not considered a prophecy.

95 posted on 01/11/2010 9:35:54 AM PST by Spunky (You are free to make choices, but not free from the consequences)
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To: Elsie

And Christ is our ONLY high priest.

It physically sickens me to think that they so pridefully equate themselves with Jesus as being High Priests after the order (type) of Melchizedek. They do not realize that they denigrate Christ’s place in doing so.


96 posted on 01/11/2010 11:22:23 AM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: TheBattman; CondoleezzaProtege

But the term “divinely inspired” does not necessarily = “God-breathed”.

- - - - - -
Entemologically, that is EXACTLY what it means. Inspired - from O.Fr. inspiration, from L.L. inspirationem (nom. inspiratio), from L. inspiratus, pp. of inspirare “inspire, inflame, blow into,” from in-”in” + spirare “to breathe”,

Divine means God. Therefore, while the term may be misused in Modern English, “divinely inspired” literally means “the divine (God/gods) breathed in”.

Also, Becks theology allows (even insists) that the Constitution is literally “God breathed”. This comes from the LDS idea of Replacement theology, that the Latter Day saints are God’s new chosen people and the US is God’s promised land. This is also seen in their doctrines that Zion will be built here in America and that the Garden of Eden is located in Missouri.


97 posted on 01/11/2010 12:17:10 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: ansel12

Thanks for not pinging me. Of the 55, 52 I’ve read were Active Church Members. My wording on the first post was slightly off and YOU in your typical Trollish manner made it an issue after that and IGNORED Clarifications made thereafter. I personally consider you a troll and will never post or answer any additional post from you again on any subject manner as this was the last straw. Badgering posters is not the same as civil debate and you need to learn the differencee.


98 posted on 01/11/2010 12:54:56 PM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: greyfoxx39
How can a church whose founder supposedly was given the "restored gospel" directly from God have a learning period?

How can 12 of Christ chosen sit and argue over trivial matters years after the cross that caused a division? How can they misinterpret a passage of scripture that one among them would not die? Where did even Peter's knowledge come from? Yet Peter too was human. I have better things to do than to go on a Mormon and JBS witch hunt. I do believe this. Of the churches of today the doctorine mistakes of Mormons are gnats compared to some other well respected considered mainstream Christian Churches are not near as serious as the following. Ones who allow such abominations ass those who teach and marry persons into a practice of abomiunation in the pulpit. Which would I rather have as a neighbor? No contest!

99 posted on 01/11/2010 1:04:59 PM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: greyfoxx39
My 11/2000 printing of the BoM, the one with © 1981 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. on the frontisplate, states, at the bottom of the BRIEF EXPLANATION page:


About this edition:  Some minor errors in the text have been perpetuated in
past editions of the Book of Mormon.  This edition contains corrections that
seem appropriate  to  bring  the  material into conformity with prepublication
manuscripts and early editions edited by the Prophet Joseph Smith.


 
About this edition:  Some minor errors in the text have been perpetuated in
past editions of the Book of Mormon.  This edition contains corrections that
seem appropriate  to  bring  the  material into conformity with prepublication
manuscripts and early editions edited by the Prophet Joseph Smith.
 
 
 
 
SEEM appropriate?  Didn't the Quorum of Twelve convene to put THEIR imprimitur on the CHANGES?
 
How did GOD allow these ERRORS to even get STARTED?
If HIS purpose was to CORRECT error in the FIRST place...

100 posted on 01/11/2010 1:32:26 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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