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Egypt tombs suggest pyramids not built by slaves
Reuters via Yahoo! ^ | 01/10/2010 | Marwa Awad

Posted on 01/10/2010 6:35:05 PM PST by jerry557

CAIRO (Reuters) – New tombs found in Giza support the view that the Great Pyramids were built by free workers and not slaves, as widely believed, Egypt's chief archaeologist said on Sunday.

Films and media have long depicted slaves toiling away in the desert to build the mammoth pyramids only to meet a miserable death at the end of their efforts.

"These tombs were built beside the king's pyramid, which indicates that these people were not by any means slaves," Zahi Hawass, the chief archaeologist heading the Egyptian excavation team, said in a statement.

"If they were slaves, they would not have been able to build their tombs beside their king's."

He said the collection of workers' tombs, some of which were found in the 1990s, were among the most significant finds in the 20th and 21st centuries. They belonged to workers who built the pyramids of Khufu and Khafre.

----

Hawass said evidence had been found showing that farmers in the Delta and Upper Egypt had sent 21 buffalo and 23 sheep to the plateau every day to feed the builders, believed to number around 10,000 -- or about a tenth of Greek historian Herodotus's estimate of 100,000.

These farmers were exempted from paying taxes to the government of ancient Egypt -- evidence that he said underscored the fact they were participating in a national project.

The first discovery of workers' tombs in 1990 came about accidentally when a horse stumbled on a brick structure 10 meters (yards) away from the burial area.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: egypt; godsgravesglyphs; history; pyramids

1 posted on 01/10/2010 6:35:08 PM PST by jerry557
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG ping


2 posted on 01/10/2010 6:40:07 PM PST by Squawk 8888 (TSA and DHS are jobs programs for people who are not smart enough to flip burgers)
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To: jerry557

I think it was probably slavery but not necessarily in the way we tend to think of it. They may have gotten paid but that doesn’t mean a freedom to choose to do or not do the work. The captivity itself wouldn’t require guards or walls if they were living isolated without a means of finding their homeland.


3 posted on 01/10/2010 6:44:24 PM PST by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: jerry557
I've read similar prior claims: That tombs found for high skilled artisans who were free laborers proved that all workers were free. Now they claim that farmers who provided food,for tax exemptions, prove the same.

My question then and now is, how does that prove that the larger group of menial laborers - those who broke their back querying, transporting & lifting the stones - were free laborer?

4 posted on 01/10/2010 6:47:05 PM PST by drpix
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To: jerry557

Gee, an early example of shovel ready jobs?


5 posted on 01/10/2010 6:54:34 PM PST by exbrit
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To: jerry557

I still say reparations are due ...


6 posted on 01/10/2010 6:56:13 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (We have the 1st so that we can call on people to rebel. We have 2nd so that they can.)
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To: exbrit

LOL Union?

Moses was a union rep. LOL


7 posted on 01/10/2010 6:56:47 PM PST by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: jerry557

Did they labor 55% of the year for the government? We do. We are slaves.


8 posted on 01/10/2010 7:02:47 PM PST by CodeToad (If it weren't for physics and law enforcement I'd be unstoppable!)
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To: CodeToad
> Did they labor 55% of the year for the government? We do. We are slaves.

And do -WE- get a burial plot next to the President's???? Oh, no-o-o-o-o... :)

9 posted on 01/10/2010 7:08:29 PM PST by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: dayglored

Hell, we never get into the house we pay for! At least the slaves got into the pyramid for a peek!


10 posted on 01/10/2010 7:21:19 PM PST by CodeToad (If it weren't for physics and law enforcement I'd be unstoppable!)
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To: Squawk 8888; Pharmboy; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks Squawk 8888. This is recycled BS from Zahi "Zowie" Hawass, he's been pushing it for years, and failure to toe this line will finish off a career digging in Egypt. "Oh look, they had two acres of bakeries, that means they were given bread to eat, so they must not have been slaves." Y'know, because slaves don't need to eat, even if it takes 20 years to build something. The Israelites were *never in* Egypt, sez Zowie, didn't build anything, only the Egyptians (who were *not* Arabs, but don't mention that to him either) built Egyptian monuments. It'll almost be a relief when the Islamofascists take over Egypt and start destroying everything.

Thanks also to Pharmboy, who sent a different story about this new find.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

·Dogpile · Archaeologica · LiveScience · Archaeology · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Discover · Nat Geographic · Texas AM Anthro News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · Google ·
· The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


11 posted on 01/10/2010 7:42:20 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
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To: jerry557

they were likely built by BOTH slaves and free workers.


12 posted on 01/10/2010 7:49:27 PM PST by plain talk
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13 posted on 01/10/2010 7:50:21 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
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To: cripplecreek
Hire us it won't get built..
14 posted on 01/10/2010 7:50:22 PM PST by GSP.FAN (These are the times that try men's souls.)
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To: jerry557

‘free’ then does not mean what free now does.


15 posted on 01/10/2010 7:58:39 PM PST by WoofDog123
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To: blam

an earlier “not by slaves” article:

Who Built The Pyramids?
Harvard Magazine | 8-17-2003 | Jonathan Shaw
Posted on 08/17/2003 5:13:35 PM PDT by blam
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/965696/posts


16 posted on 01/10/2010 8:24:20 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
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To: jerry557

Wasn’t the Pharoah considered to be a god who owned all land in egypt and everyone in it (except for the priests, who were given special privileges), making the distinction between slave and free somewhat academic?


17 posted on 01/10/2010 8:29:26 PM PST by eclecticEel (The Most High rules in the kingdom of men ... and sets over it the basest of men.)
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The keywords "davidovits" and "jeanpierrehoudin":
18 posted on 01/10/2010 8:32:02 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
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The Secret of the Great Pyramid: How One Mans Obsession Led to the Solution of Ancient Egypts Greatest Mystery The Secret of the Great Pyramid:
How One Man's Obsession
Led to the Solution of
Ancient Egypt's Greatest Mystery

by Bob Brier and
Jean-Pierre Houdin

Kindle Edition
Paperback


19 posted on 01/10/2010 8:35:35 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
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Why the pharaohs built the Pyramids with fake stones Why the pharaohs built the Pyramids with fake stones
by Joseph Davidovits

chapter one PDF (free)
search Amazon


20 posted on 01/10/2010 8:42:08 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
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To: jerry557
Giza Pyramids Indicate 2012, by Scott Creighton


21 posted on 01/10/2010 9:01:04 PM PST by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: eclecticEel; plain talk; SunkenCiv; All

Slave or free, a complicated question. Roman slaves generally had more rights than American slaves. Were “free” men able to move from one village to another without higher level permission? What was owed to the state in labor and production by various strata of society? Were buried laborers/”slaves” more or less healthy/well nourished than neighboring villagers/farmers? All questions that can clarify the extent of slavery/citizenship.

So far as Moses and the slaves, that was a much later period of history. The pyramids were more than 4000 years ago before the chaos of the First Intermediate Period. Google Ipuwer papyrus. Abraham and the subsequent migration into Egypt was after the FIP, perhaps because of the FIP. Who knows what changes might have taken place in the 3 or 4 hundred years after the first of Abraham’s people settled in Egypt. They might have become so numerous that it awakened jealosy. Also the exodus period was probably after the Second Intermediate Period, and the Hyksos (shepherd kings) period in Egyptian history. Were they relatives? and subsequently despised?


22 posted on 01/10/2010 9:29:11 PM PST by gleeaikin
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To: gleeaikin
Roman slaves generally had more rights than American slaves.

Depends which period of Roman history you're talking about. In the early days, nobody except the pater familias had any legal rights whatsoever. He had power of life and death, quite literally, over slaves, wife, sons, daughters, daughters-in-law, etc. I believe he could even legally sell a son, which makes the distinction between slave and free subject to change at any moment.

Romans, until quite late, routinely executed their slaves freely. Augustus was particularly disgusted by a guy who fed them to his lampreys. It wasn't illegal, just kind of bad taste.

Romans openly used their slaves, male and female, for sexual purposes. They also routinely murdered their slaves' children.

OTOH, there was never anything resembling a racial component to Roman slavery, except that Romans viewed themselves as the master race over everybody.

Slaves in Rome gained more legal rights as time went by.

From early days, a freed Roman slave immediately became a Roman citizen and was then free to compete economically. Many became wealthy and powerful. His children were generally accepted socially.

All things considered, I'd rather have been a slave in Rome than Jamaica.

23 posted on 01/11/2010 7:57:45 AM PST by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: jerry557

Tombs of the union bosses.


24 posted on 01/11/2010 1:54:45 PM PST by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (STOP the Tyrananny State.)
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To: Sherman Logan
All things considered, I'd rather have been a slave in Rome than Jamaica.

Unless you were sent to the mines. That was a death sentence.

25 posted on 01/12/2010 11:32:57 AM PST by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker

True enough.

Interestingly, the Romans and other ancient peoples never used galley slaves, despite what Charlton Heston says. They were an invention of gunpowder weapon days.

Quite logical really. If the fighting, with minor exceptions, is by edged weapons or ramming, then having all the rowers ready to fight for you is a huge advantage. If most of the fighting is by artillery, the rowers are mostly just an engine.


26 posted on 01/12/2010 12:49:07 PM PST by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: drpix
From what we know of Egyptian society, there were simply not enough slaves to provide that type of labor force. Slaves were a luxury item for the well to do, and they didn't want their slaves off hauling stones.

The vast majority of the population of Egypt were farmers, and there is an “off” season for farming, when they could be conscripted or compelled or otherwise temporarily “enslaved” to build the Pyramids.

L. Sprague DeCamp in “the Ancient Engineers” talked about how it was most likely to have happened. He also mentions a very salient point about stone age technology and pyramids; without ‘post and lintel’ construction, the only tall imposing building you CAN make is, by necessity, a pyramid.

So much for the ‘cosmic significance’ of pyramids.

27 posted on 01/12/2010 12:56:26 PM PST by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: Sherman Logan

28 posted on 01/12/2010 1:50:54 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: gleeaikin

4000? I’m guessing you meant 400? The Giza pyramids were built about 2500 BC, the 1st IP was a few hundred years later, and the Exodus was about 1000 years after the 4th dyn Giza pyramids went up; in between time the Middle Kingdom pharaohs had large pyramids built — of mud brick — and what is left of them can still be seen, including this big one in the Fayyum:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawara


29 posted on 01/12/2010 7:22:14 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Actually, the problem is that I forgot to put a comma after “more than 4000 years ago,”. I meant before the First Intermediate Period, but NOT 4000 years before.


30 posted on 01/12/2010 8:14:26 PM PST by gleeaikin
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To: allmendream
Slaves may have been a luxury for private citizens but not for Pharaohs. Pharaohs commanded the most powerful army of the time. The captives from military victories and conquests supplied plenty of slaves for the throne. Ancient accounts abound with tallies of slaves “won” by such conquests.
31 posted on 01/13/2010 9:34:52 AM PST by drpix
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