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USB 3.0: freakishly fast - maybe
ZDNet ^ | 7 January 2010 | Robin Harris

Posted on 01/12/2010 8:02:47 AM PST by ShadowAce

You’ll be hearing a lot about USB 3.0 this year. And well you should, because its potential is vast. But will system vendors step up to the plate to deliver all of USB 3’s goodness?

Speeds und feeds
USB 2.0 has never delivered the advertised 480 mbits/sec because that number technically correct and operationally bogus. If you have data transferring in both directions at the same time it could happen - but for USB disks it never does.

That drops the theoretical transfer rate to 240 mbits/sec, but because of protocol overhead - for example, some signal redundancy to increase data integrity - the payload bandwidth is still lower.

Net net: you’re lucky to get a 20 MB/sec data rate off a disk - when the advertised rate suggests 60. But unless you use FireWire or eSATA that is the best you can get - until now.

Enter the 3
USB 3.0 is a different protocol - USB is a brand, not a technology - and while I haven’t done a deep dive it is a big improvement, while retaining backward compatibility with USB 1 & 2.

The biggest improvement is performance: it can move over 440 MBytes/sec.

The fine print
As noted in the video your mileage will vary. We’re dependent on the system vendors and their driver writers to develop robust support. That could take years.

Mac users face a bigger problem: it appears that Cupertino is doing nothing - zip, nada - with USB 3.0. With their smaller market share and tighter control, little is likely to happen unless Apple actively supports it.

The StorageMojo take
USB 3.0 is a Good Thing. Drives, even flash drives, are getting large enough USB 2 is like sipping the ocean through a straw. The rapid growth of file-based workflows needs more bandwidth - and USB 3.0 looks like a good answer.

Apple is risking their creative professional base if they ignore a fast new I/O bus. Light Peak, an optical interconnect Intel has been working on at Apple’s behest, may be their answer.

But as I noted in Light Peak: black hole

Light Peak is a great idea and doomed. Between obnoxious DRM, costly optical hubs and switches, Blu-ray style licensing fees, Intel over-engineering and Apple’s penchant for twee little I/O ports, Light Peak is almost certain to fail.

With Windows 7 momentum and a major I/O fail, Microsoft may be able to take back much of the creative professional market that gives Apple such a hip image.

Let the games begin!


TOPICS: Computers/Internet
KEYWORDS: hitech; protocol; usb

1 posted on 01/12/2010 8:02:48 AM PST by ShadowAce
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To: rdb3; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; GodGunsandGuts; CyberCowboy777; Salo; Bobsat; JosephW; ...

Video at link

2 posted on 01/12/2010 8:03:13 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: ShadowAce
USB 3.0 is a different protocol - USB is a brand, not a technology - and while I haven’t done a deep dive it is a big improvement, while retaining backward compatibility with USB 1 & 2.

Deep Dive, the latest rhetoric in the project manager's and marketing scum's vocabulary that as usual, means nothing.

3 posted on 01/12/2010 8:10:00 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: ShadowAce

I just bought a OCZ Vertex SSD and Win 7 64-bit.

Very fast.


4 posted on 01/12/2010 8:15:36 AM PST by mowowie
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To: ShadowAce

Nothing against the poster, but that article is awful. It brings forth no details and rambles. Drunk blogging is dangerous...


5 posted on 01/12/2010 8:17:04 AM PST by xenob
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To: ShadowAce
Is this something that would require a hardware upgrade, new computer or could it be accomplished with a software download?

Pardon my stupidity on all things geeky. All I know is when somebody says we can download faster.....I want it.

6 posted on 01/12/2010 8:17:10 AM PST by Recon Dad ( USMC SSgt Patrick O - 3rd Afghanistan Deployment - Day 84)
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To: ShadowAce
and while I haven’t done a deep dive

How about getting back to us once you have.

(not *you,* SA)

7 posted on 01/12/2010 8:17:10 AM PST by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: Recon Dad

It’ll require new hardware—either a new computer, or a new PCI card with the ports.


8 posted on 01/12/2010 8:22:13 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: Lx

“Deep Dive, the latest rhetoric in the project manager’s and marketing scum’s vocabulary that as usual, means nothing”

I guess it’s intended to be the opposite of “the 40,000 foot view”. :)


9 posted on 01/12/2010 8:25:40 AM PST by Pessimist (u)
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To: ShadowAce

I think I’ll wait for USB 4 or 5


10 posted on 01/12/2010 8:27:27 AM PST by PoloSec (Note to Princess B H Obama: May PISS be Upon Mohammads Head...You Pervert)
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To: ShadowAce
Mac users face a bigger problem: it appears that Cupertino is doing nothing - zip, nada - with USB 3.0. With their smaller market share and tighter control, little is likely to happen unless Apple actively supports it.

Mac do have the ability to accept third party expansion cards, don't they? Or do they?

11 posted on 01/12/2010 8:27:58 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Lx
Add that phrase to the dust heap of history, along with:

Value add
Low-hanging fruit, and
Skillset

12 posted on 01/12/2010 8:30:34 AM PST by I Buried My Guns (BLOAT: Buy Lots Of Ammo Today)
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To: ShadowAce

I will have to wait for USB 3.0 as I have just put money into USB 2.0 hard drives, laptops, thumb drives, etc.


13 posted on 01/12/2010 8:34:26 AM PST by kevinm13 (Tim Geithner is a tax cheat. Manmade "Global Warming" is a HOAX!)
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To: I Buried My Guns

Paradigm shift...

It appears cloud computing is making a come back. I don’t know if they’ll ever get over users worries about a third party having their data.


14 posted on 01/12/2010 8:35:01 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: ShadowAce
"because that number technically correct and operationally bogus"

"I'd like to buy a verb, Alex."

15 posted on 01/12/2010 8:35:40 AM PST by Uncle Miltie ("Free" Healthcare + Citizenship for Lawbreakers = Democrats Forever! Buenos Dias!)
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To: ShadowAce; Swordmaker
Will it make FRee Republic load faster?
16 posted on 01/12/2010 9:01:10 AM PST by tubebender (Some minds are like concrete Thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: Lx
I don’t know if they’ll ever get over users worries about a third party having their data.

Not with this user they won't. There's even a legal aspect to it. Courts have ruled that information shared with a vendor isn't subject to fourth amendment protection because the originator already elected to share it, and has thus waived fourth amendment. Kind of like they can go through your trash can, because by throwing the stuff out, you implicitly renounced claim to it.

17 posted on 01/12/2010 9:02:09 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: tubebender
Will it make FRee Republic load faster?

Tell me about it. The last week or two it seems like page requests from FR take like 5-10 seconds. And it's not my PC or internet, because other sites load normally.

18 posted on 01/12/2010 9:03:36 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Still Thinking

It’s a very scary road. How much is some companies client list go to go for? I firmly believe these backup companies will eventually start to mine the data. Things as simple as an email or phone list is worth big bucks and if they’ve already got a 4th amendment ruling, it will happen.


19 posted on 01/12/2010 9:10:16 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Lx
as usual, means nothing.

Funny, I was able to discern his meaning in the context he used it.

But, agreed. It is stupid techno-babble. He could have easily used the tried and true "20,000 foot overview" to show us how hip he thinks he is.

20 posted on 01/12/2010 9:12:23 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
Sorry but 20,000 foot overview is now happily stated as a helicopter view but who knows how long until that is out of favor...
21 posted on 01/12/2010 9:15:32 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: ShadowAce

Light Peak vs. USB:

Light Peak:
10 Gb/s simultaneous in each direction (100 Gb/s future)
Cable length 100 m
Can run video, audio and data at the same time on the same cable, in multiple protocols.

USB3:
4.8 Gb/s
Cable length 3m
Runs only data on the USB protocol

IMNSHO, USB3 is just evolutionary, taking the same thing we’ve been doing and going faster with it. Light Peak gives one thin cable than can saturate a hard drive’s platters and run multiple 1080p HDTV streams at the same time over the same cable. At least that’s if Intel can deliver.


22 posted on 01/12/2010 9:22:38 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: Lx

And liberals like the one in charge of a lot of tech companies would be more likely to abuse data entrusted to them for political reasons. Thus, conservatives are at greater danger from that kind of exploitation. Plus, why would you want your fate to be in someone else’s hands in the first place?


23 posted on 01/12/2010 9:24:16 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: ShadowAce
Mac users face a bigger problem: it appears that Cupertino is doing nothing - zip, nada - with USB 3.0.

Wasn't Apple late to the USB party to begin with preferring Firewire?

24 posted on 01/12/2010 9:31:52 AM PST by VeniVidiVici (I'd rather be an AGW denier than a dumbass Watermelon)
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To: antiRepublicrat
At least that’s if Intel can deliver.

And if the DRM doesn't induce a bunch of latency.

25 posted on 01/12/2010 9:34:19 AM PST by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
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To: I Buried My Guns

My new favorite that I’ve been hearing at work is “critical path”, how about just asking if something is important??


26 posted on 01/12/2010 9:37:46 AM PST by rednesss (fascism is the union,marriage,merger or fusion of corporate economic power with governmental power)
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To: Still Thinking
The last week or two it seems like page requests from FR take like 5-10 seconds.

Try http://209.157.64.200. It could be your DNS. (The thing that translates freerepublic.com into its real address.) It may also be that some folks insert their own IP for a popular one, especially Google (http://74.125.39.103) so they can gather search data they can sell. And then they pass the original request along. If a bunch of folks do this, things obviously can get pretty slow. I'm not sure what to do about it though.

ML/NJ

27 posted on 01/12/2010 9:43:52 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj

Don’t think it’s my DNS. About 7 seconds from text URL, 6 with numeric. For comparison www.msnbc.msn.com is about 3 seconds from text and 1.5 from numeric.


28 posted on 01/12/2010 9:55:09 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: ml/nj

Course, comparing pmsnbc.com with FR is like comparing CNN with Fox, which has actual viewers.


29 posted on 01/12/2010 9:56:25 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Recon Dad

To get USB 3 will require new hardware. But, unless you’re using a USB network adapter, you won’t see an increase in download speed. That is a function of your ISP, your connection bandwidth (dial-up, DSL, Cable, Fiber), the server you’re downloading from, your gateway/router (if you have one) and your network adapter. And then there’s your internal (to the computer) bus. The bus is how adapters, memory and CPU all talk to each other. It has a bandwidth and speed rating as well.


30 posted on 01/12/2010 9:56:43 AM PST by AFreeBird (Going Rogue in 2012)
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To: Lx
I don’t know if they’ll ever get over users worries about a third party having their data.

I will never put my personal data into the cloud.

31 posted on 01/12/2010 9:58:14 AM PST by AFreeBird (Going Rogue in 2012)
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To: AFreeBird
But, unless you’re using a USB network adapter, you won’t see an increase in download speed.

Nah. Even USB 2.0 will keep up with broadband.

32 posted on 01/12/2010 10:02:20 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: ShadowAce

Anyone know offhand how this compares to Firewire’s (IEEE1394) speed?


33 posted on 01/12/2010 10:14:50 AM PST by chris_bdba
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To: chris_bdba

Higher than current Firewire, lower than next gen of FW. (Kinda like USB 2)


34 posted on 01/12/2010 10:26:28 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Knitebane
And if the DRM doesn't induce a bunch of latency.

The DRM is optional. I'm sure the studios required a DRM option before they'd get behind using it as a video cable, as they did with HDMI. Right now HDMI is at its limit with 1080p, so this gives much more headroom for later HD video standards, or multiple streams.

35 posted on 01/12/2010 10:28:08 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: I Buried My Guns
Skillset

Fingernails across a chalkboard.

If the guy on NFL Network Radio uses that term, I change the channel immediately.

Even Mitch Rapp uses it in the latest Vince Flynn novel. Almost enough to make me root for his terrorist adversaries.

36 posted on 01/12/2010 10:35:01 AM PST by Skooz (Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us)
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To: Lx

I store anything, any emails, on my own domain. Even though it is shared hosting, I do have an expectation to privacy on my little chunk of it. I actually asked the hosting service about it, and policy is that they don’t read anything (whether they do or not is irrelevant, it’s the policy and my expectations).

The issue of the 4th all hinges on the “expectation of privacy,” both subjective and objective.


37 posted on 01/12/2010 10:52:11 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: rednesss
“critical path”

That's a heav ily used word in project management circles.

Goes back to the minuteman days I think.

38 posted on 01/12/2010 11:06:58 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: antiRepublicrat
The DRM is optional.

The spec for the hardware may have DRM optional, but commercial operating systems check for DRM on the video before allowing HD to be enabled.

This is currently true with HDMI, but HDMI isn't wireless. The concern is that actually using the wireless protocol with the added DRM will induce higher latency.

39 posted on 01/12/2010 11:44:21 AM PST by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
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To: Knitebane
The concern is that actually using the wireless protocol with the added DRM will induce higher latency.

I think I'm missing something here. Wireless? This is optical.

40 posted on 01/12/2010 11:49:04 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: rednesss
My new favorite that I’ve been hearing at work is “critical path”, how about just asking if something is important??

It's just a relationship of dependencies and how long everything takes. In a project of A, B, C, D tasks, if the only task interdependency is that long task A must be done before long task D, then the total time of the project is A+D -- that's your critical path. You will blow your deadline if you extend A and delay D. You have two short tasks B and C and they aren't in your critical path, they just need to be some time before the end, that's where you can do some schedule juggling if necessary in order to leave A+D, the critical path, alone.

If you've ever made a project timeline with a project management tool, you've probably done a variation of critical path.

Of course, if you're suddenly hearing this at work, that sounds like management by buzzword. Critical path will not be properly implemented, nor will proper after-action feedback occur. In short, you're screwed. Change your name to Dilbert.

41 posted on 01/12/2010 12:21:13 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat
Wireless? This is optical.

And isn't that wireless? ;-)

42 posted on 01/12/2010 1:34:44 PM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; rednesss
“critical path”

Actually the concept of critical path(s) I'm not sure how I'd say in other words. Certainly not two.

43 posted on 01/12/2010 1:36:29 PM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: ShadowAce

Intel has postponed the USB3.0 date for vendors until 2012 for the i3/i5/i7 line of motherboards, and for the next generation (and new socket) of motherboards.

It was postponed officially around early October 2009.

However, it will take that long for the integrated HDCP/Dolby Digital passthrough to make it to market in any significant way, as it just came to market this week with the i3/i5 line.

Set-top PCs with integrated cable cards and CPU chip integrated multiple HD monitor support should be on the market by Christmas 2012.

At which point we can finally all start looking like the slothful people in the movie Wall-E.


44 posted on 01/12/2010 2:00:54 PM PST by JerseyHighlander
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To: VeniVidiVici

“Wasn’t Apple late to the USB party to begin with preferring Firewire?”

Not with USB 1.0, the iMacs were the first computers with USB. They abandoned older Mac keyboard, mouse, and printer connectors in favor of USB. Full support for USB on the PC side did not come until Windows 98. Windows 95 OSR2 had only partial support.

The Windows 98 and the iMac both came out in late July, early August of 1998.


45 posted on 01/12/2010 3:24:34 PM PST by GreenLanternCorps ("Barack Obama" is Swahili for "Jimmy Carter".)
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To: JerseyHighlander
Intel has postponed the USB3.0 date for vendors until 2012...

ASUS has announced a USB 3.0 MB

46 posted on 01/12/2010 6:04:54 PM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: ShadowAce

I’m telling you, my post was current at the time I posted it. That is some great product from Asus.

This thread has helped me tremendously catching up on the timeline for the i3/i5/i7 line of cpus: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1172451

The USB3 project at Intel codenamed Sandy Bridge was postponed.


47 posted on 01/13/2010 4:07:45 AM PST by JerseyHighlander
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To: antiRepublicrat
Sorry. I confused LightPeak with WirelessHD.

It's the WirelessHD that will end up getting tanked because the media moguls think we are all thieves.

Digging into LightPeak I have to ask: What's wrong with TOSLINK?

48 posted on 01/13/2010 1:53:12 PM PST by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
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To: Knitebane
What's wrong with TOSLINK?

For one, TOSLINK is slower than USB2. It has awesome bandwidth if you're only doing audio though, which is what it's made for.

49 posted on 01/13/2010 2:28:31 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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