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Haiti Relief (Vanity)

Posted on 01/14/2010 11:52:55 AM PST by Red in Blue PA

Watching the ongoing relief efforst on TV, it is frustrating to know that people deserately need the basics and will probably not get them for days. The officials are offloading everything at the airport andit is stacking up. I am no expert, but IMO we need to be doing a 2 pronged approach to this disaster, and airstyle-type drop of World War II combined with the precise relief we are seeing set up on television. But why they are not doing the airdrops is beyond me. The peeople need the basics such as water and crackers and these could beeasily airdropped.

If anyone of any importance is reading this, please consider airdrops! People will not make it to surgery if they do not get the water they need.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: airdrop; airdrops; airport; airportbottleneck; dehydration; earthquake; earthquakerelief; haiti; haitianearthquake; haitiearthquake; haitiquake; haitiquake2010; haitirelief; helphaiti; helphaitians; humanitarianrelief; relief; starvation
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1 posted on 01/14/2010 11:52:57 AM PST by Red in Blue PA
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To: Red in Blue PA

Forgot to add.....the govt seems to want to total control of all resources there as opposed to the 1940’s when the goal was simply to help as many people as possible.

Situations like this require IMMEDIATE assistance, and may not be pretty, but efforst must be made as soon as possible. We are going on 48 hourse and not many people are even in the city proper yet.


2 posted on 01/14/2010 11:58:23 AM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Can you imagine the ‘sharks in the water’ if an air drop were dropped.
The stampede killing those trying to get to any goods.

And then there’s always the corruption of the ones who steal the drop, like the U.N. does.

What about those with broken legs, arms, unconscious?


3 posted on 01/14/2010 11:58:42 AM PST by Freddd (CNN is not credible.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Forgot to add.....the govt seems to want to total control of all resources———————yeah...OUR government, so Obama can be a ‘hero’ on the U.S. taxpayer’s back, again.


4 posted on 01/14/2010 12:00:25 PM PST by Freddd (CNN is not credible.)
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To: Freddd
Can you imagine the ‘sharks in the water’ if an air drop were dropped.

And can you imagine the DESPERATION after days without any water?

And then there’s always the corruption of the ones who steal the drop, like the U.N. does.

Steal Water? I doubt it. And if they would, there are not a lack of camermen.

What about those with broken legs, arms, unconscious?

I would venture a guess that the family structure is actually stronger there than in the USA.
5 posted on 01/14/2010 12:02:04 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: Freddd

Please please air drop crackers and food to working and unemployed Americans in Florida being taxed to death to pay for Haitian economic refugees aka illegal aliens in FL.

Our unemployment rate is over 13%. Saltines, Ritz and cheeze whiz would be appreciated. We really could use your help.


6 posted on 01/14/2010 12:04:36 PM PST by Frantzie (TV - sending Americans towards Islamic serfdom - Cancel TV service NOW)
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To: Red in Blue PA

The need for good clean water is probably tops on that list. Next would be medical. They are afraid there going cholera in the coming days. :( They are ready traumatized by injure, shock and lack of food and good water, there bodies aren’t going to handle it very well.


7 posted on 01/14/2010 12:06:29 PM PST by MsLady (If you died tonight, where would you go? Salvation, don't leave earth without it!)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Did you ever see desperate people rushing towards an air drop.

Not safe, not a good idea.


8 posted on 01/14/2010 12:09:33 PM PST by Carley (OBAMA IS A MALEVOLENT FORCE IN THE WORLD)
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To: MsLady

Is anybody wathching this heartbreaking Shep Smith segment?

OMG.


9 posted on 01/14/2010 12:09:43 PM PST by txhurl
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To: txhurl

Yes, the reporter on the scene could no longer hold it in.

Horrible.


10 posted on 01/14/2010 12:11:12 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: Freddd

Didn’t Bush offer and provide a lot of assistance after the Indonesia tsunami?


11 posted on 01/14/2010 12:11:14 PM PST by ilovesarah2012
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To: Red in Blue PA

>> But why they are not doing the airdrops is beyond me. The peeople need the basics such as water and crackers and these could beeasily airdropped.

I’m not sure airdrops are a good idea. There very well could be rioting at the drop site. When so many are desperate, there needs to be a controlled plan to avoid serious civil unrest.

SnakeDoc


12 posted on 01/14/2010 12:11:50 PM PST by SnakeDoctor (Life is tough; it's tougher if you're stupid. -- John Wayne)
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To: Carley

I agree, it sounds like a good idea on paper, but the results would be even worse than doing nothing.


13 posted on 01/14/2010 12:12:46 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Red in Blue PA

The Navy is taking a ship down there, don’t know when it left. With 2000 Marines. Wonder if other ships could get in? They can’t get supplies in there fast enough. I think they are also coming across the border from Dominican Republic. I heard that earlier. From my understanding it’s very mountainous there. The roads are probably congested. With people trying to get into DR for medical attention. What a tragedy, it’s just heartbreaking.


14 posted on 01/14/2010 12:13:57 PM PST by MsLady (If you died tonight, where would you go? Salvation, don't leave earth without it!)
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To: SnakeDoctor

Water is cheap. Almost nothing except for the cost of fuel. This is the easiest this they could do to ameliorate the suffering. The planes would not even need to land. They could go back to Puerto Rico or Miami immediately.


15 posted on 01/14/2010 12:14:32 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: Red in Blue PA

I was crying with both of them.

I pray I didn’t hear the word looters on top of that hill.
I just misheard something.


16 posted on 01/14/2010 12:15:50 PM PST by txhurl
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To: dfwgator
the results would be even worse than doing nothing.

Let them starve/die of thirst. Not much common sense these days, even here on FR.
17 posted on 01/14/2010 12:16:00 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: txhurl

No I’ll go take a look. I haven’t been able to watch much, just can’t stomach it. The look on there faces just breaks my heart, the devastation, the dead bodies everywhere. I can’t even imagine.


18 posted on 01/14/2010 12:16:56 PM PST by MsLady (If you died tonight, where would you go? Salvation, don't leave earth without it!)
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To: Red in Blue PA

But there has to be better alternatives than just dropping supplies. You need to get troops with machine guns on the spot to make sure the distribution goes smoothly. Without that, you get a riot, or the crooks run off with the supplies for themselves.


19 posted on 01/14/2010 12:17:46 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

With logic like that, the airdrops of WW2 would have never happened.


20 posted on 01/14/2010 12:18:52 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: Red in Blue PA
The planes would not even need to land.

LAPES? Yeah, that would work. Toss in the cost of the pallet and rigging to be added to the fuel. Figure a couple hundred dead on the ground for each drop.

21 posted on 01/14/2010 12:19:42 PM PST by xone
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To: Red in Blue PA

I understand they wouldn’t need to land. But, the trampled bodies that will undoubtedly appear at EVERY early dropsite is a definite downside.

SnakeDoc


22 posted on 01/14/2010 12:19:50 PM PST by SnakeDoctor (Life is tough; it's tougher if you're stupid. -- John Wayne)
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To: Red in Blue PA

I think once the Marines and Army get there the can set up and guard/defend areas like soccer fields and parks for air drops. If you don’t have the military to guard drop zones there would be utter chaos.


23 posted on 01/14/2010 12:21:15 PM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: Red in Blue PA
I am no expert...

There are not many experts.

24 posted on 01/14/2010 12:21:30 PM PST by verity (Obama Lies)
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To: xone
Figure a couple hundred dead on the ground for each drop.

WHatever losses there would be, are GUARANTEED without them.

Sometimes, risk is necessary. This is indeed one of those times.
25 posted on 01/14/2010 12:21:46 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: dfwgator

Nice that the reporters are bringing in tents, water, and supplies for themselves. Do you think a single news organization purchased relief for the suffering Haitians.


26 posted on 01/14/2010 12:22:31 PM PST by Carley (OBAMA IS A MALEVOLENT FORCE IN THE WORLD)
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To: SnakeDoctor

Every scenario has a downside in this situation. This would merely assuage the immediate suffering and give people a chance.

Cholera is not going to be far behind without potable water.


27 posted on 01/14/2010 12:23:03 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Now if you dropped in some Army Rangers with those supplies, maybe it would have a shot.


28 posted on 01/14/2010 12:23:19 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Carley

I have thought about that too. Every news organization should (IMO) only have the people they absolutely need to cover this story, as each person’s footprint of need (water food, etc) is immense.


29 posted on 01/14/2010 12:24:32 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: Carley

It pisses me off when I see the videos of people trapped in the buildings with people trying to help them get out, while the camera people just stand and film it. I say, “drop the frickin’ camera and get in there and help.”


30 posted on 01/14/2010 12:24:45 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: SnakeDoctor

Saltwater-converting ship is there or almost there.

Think of all the engineering needed in such a short period.

Asking to borrow private planes now.


31 posted on 01/14/2010 12:25:36 PM PST by txhurl
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To: Red in Blue PA
HELP IS ON THE WAY:

snip

As the military's large-scale operation got underway, the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier, bearing 19 helicopters and equipped with operating rooms, was expected to arrive off the Haitian coast on Friday, he said.

Navy officers said the aircraft carrier will serve as a "floating airport" for a fleet of helicopters ferrying emergency teams and aid to Haiti, where rescuers raced against the clock to find survivors among thousands of corpses.

Officials have warned the death toll could top 100,000.

The carrier and the amphibious ships were equipped to purify water and deliver it by helicopter, a mission the navy has carried out in other natural disasters.

A guided-missile cruiser, the USS Normandy, and a frigate, the USS Underwood, along with several Coast Guard cutters were also steaming toward Haiti to provide more helicopters and assistance.

snip

32 posted on 01/14/2010 12:27:17 PM PST by kristinn (A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words.)
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To: kristinn

The ship is expected to arrive Friday. A day or two to get it up and running.

Even once this happens, how will the water be distributed throught the city to people with broken legs?

Some “out of the box” (hate that phrase) thinking is desperately needed in this situation.....and I am seeing none of it.


33 posted on 01/14/2010 12:29:36 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Big difference to have the earthquake or its aftermath killing you vs. the US military killing you.

This is not analogous to airdrops(?) in WWII. At best, the helos arriving can sling load supplies, that would keep the casualties down. But they are a way out yet. This is part of the tragedy, the Haitian gov’t is such a POS that they have to wait for aid.


34 posted on 01/14/2010 12:30:44 PM PST by xone
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To: xone

At this point, time is a killer, in the most literal of senses.


35 posted on 01/14/2010 12:33:58 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: Red in Blue PA
The ship is expected to arrive Friday. A day or two to get it up and running.

There will be supplies flying off that deck when they are in range IF there is a place to take it. That will be the problem as always. Coordination, not logisitical capability is the issue.

36 posted on 01/14/2010 12:35:34 PM PST by xone
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To: Red in Blue PA

Instead of sending soldiers, philanthropic geniuses should go there without staying in a resort this time to learn something about the real Haiti.


37 posted on 01/14/2010 12:36:04 PM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

I was thinking of a wagon-wheel-type distribution system, build say, 50. Using PVC 100-ft lengths, air drop empty water bottles all over, millions.

The hub of the wheel would be a pool that the helos could continuously drop 500 gal water bags into, which would then run down the pvc pipes into lines of people with water bottles.

Cheap and quick to build.


38 posted on 01/14/2010 12:38:17 PM PST by txhurl
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To: Red in Blue PA
time is a killer,

Time, thankfully, is not a US citizen. The Navy will have a plan when they are in range. They are good at that. Running amok only causes chaos and that causes more death.

39 posted on 01/14/2010 12:38:52 PM PST by xone
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To: xone

Re: “Running amok”

At this point, the ports are destroyed, the roads are not good, and the airport is not even up and running again for night flightds with temporary lights!

There is only one gateyway into Haiti, the airport, and the roads leading out are not good. Only one gateway is not going to help the majority of people in Haiti in this situation.


40 posted on 01/14/2010 12:41:51 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Because you’re not there. Our guys know how to do this. Haiti is not unfamliar territory for our military.


41 posted on 01/14/2010 12:42:38 PM PST by kristinn (A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words.)
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To: kristinn

I am not there but that doesn’t mean I cannot have an informed opinion.

We do not yet have the airport up for night flights. (Why could’nt this have been donw on Day 1?)

Having only one gateway for supplies for alomost 3 million people is not workable.....but hey, you might know better.


42 posted on 01/14/2010 12:44:44 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: Red in Blue PA
As you said, air-drops might be a possibility. With the associated risks. I think the main thing to remember in these huge, widespread catastrophes - NOTHING is easy, and it will take a LONG time for help to come. This goes for anyplace. And more-so in a place like Haiti.

I hated it when the folks complained about Katrina. I hated it when folks complained about our snow storm last year in Seattle. When a disaster hits - the government (or the power company, or the hardware store, or the grocery store) WILL NOT be able to deal with it quick enough. It is just too much too handle. Add in the REALLY corrupt governments of many of these third world countries and it is even worse.

Even in a place like Haiti, if the folks were educated on the hazards of earthquakes, they at least could have had some stores of water in each home. Obviously a lot of it would be under rubble now, but a lot would still be available. And perhaps enough to share with a neighbor for a few days. A small thing - but a necessity. Personaly, I have donated to World Vision that already has local networks in place to help the victims, with less of my donation going to corrupt officials.

43 posted on 01/14/2010 12:49:03 PM PST by 21twelve
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To: Red in Blue PA
At this point, the ports are destroyed, the roads are not good, and the airport is not even up and running again for night flightds with temporary lights!

They just had a huge earthquake. Of course these facilities are down right now. The US doesn't own the airport. Even here, the airport would be down a few days while it is inspected to make sure relief flights are possible. If you are counting on military relief, lights aren't required. Most likely, the field needs to be inspected and recertified. Helicopters can overcome the transport system being down in the short run. The Navy needs an amphib for over the beach delivery. These things take time, many more will die before the tide is turned. Dropping 1# bombs from altitude with speed solves nothing. You need to relax.

44 posted on 01/14/2010 12:54:17 PM PST by xone
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To: Red in Blue PA

“Having only one gateway for supplies for alomost 3 million people is not workable.....but hey, you might know better.”

It looks to me on google earth that there are three “major” roads in and out of Port au Prince. They were saying these roads are single -lane in many places and on a good day is still an 8 hour trip to a city in Dom. Rep. They estimated it was a 12 to 16 hour trip now. I’ve also heard that at least one of those roads was impassable even on a motorcyle. (One major bridge out will do that).

The port facilities are damaged (probably the loading cranes were knocked over?). Power out at the airport. I imagine once our military gets there that will be the first priority to get full-time power at the airport.

It was really disheartening to see all of the planes in the air circling, and all of the folks in U.S. airports mobing to leave, and then have the FAA cancel all flights to PauP for the rest of the day. No room at the airport to park, no fuel at the airport, and probably still no tower communications. (Early planes just had the pilots talking to each other to let each other know where they were and taking turns landing. Might still be that way?)


45 posted on 01/14/2010 12:57:08 PM PST by 21twelve
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To: Red in Blue PA

Because time takes time. Our guys are there today getting the airport ready for 24/7 operations this evening, if it’s not done already. It hasn’t been 48 hours yet since the quake.


46 posted on 01/14/2010 12:57:37 PM PST by kristinn (A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words.)
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To: xone

By dropping 1# bombs you do mean 1 lb. water bottles, right?

Which would likely shatter on impact. Unless you fly real low, and the last thing these poor people need right now is chopper winds continously above their heads.


47 posted on 01/14/2010 1:00:54 PM PST by txhurl
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To: kristinn

I know our guys are doing all they can.

I am merely arguing that the basics should be dropped concurrently, as the temperatures are in the 90’s every day. People can only survive that for so long.

I do not believe we have the sense of urgency we need.


48 posted on 01/14/2010 1:04:49 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: Red in Blue PA
Just exactly why do we “have” to do anything? Haiti is a write off and has been for decades. Not a State or possession of the US. Let the mighty UN do the heavy lifting.
49 posted on 01/14/2010 1:06:15 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (usff.com)
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To: mad_as_he$$

You sound like a nice fellow/s

Hope you never need any help.


50 posted on 01/14/2010 1:07:25 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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