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Another first gun question
Self | January 23, 2010 | Richard Kimball

Posted on 01/23/2010 12:42:20 PM PST by Richard Kimball

Young lady I know is around twenty and wants to get a concealed carry permit. She knows the safety concepts and has been safely handling .22 rifles and other small arms for years. This would be her first handgun. In Texas, for a concealed carry permit, she must test with a caliber larger than .22. If she tests with a revolver, her carry permit is only good for a revolver. She is relatively small, so please no suggestions for .45s, .50 Desert Eagles, etc. (Like that ever stops anyone from suggesting them anyway ;o>).


TOPICS: Hobbies
KEYWORDS: armedcitizen; banglist; ccw; gunporn; pistol; rkba
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I'm think of something around a 9mm or a .357 with a .38 load in a revolver, but not something as small as a Lady Smith. A slightly larger handgun in a smaller caliber seems to have less kick. We have not had many zombie infestations in the area, so a 12 gauge isn't necessary. I'm particularly interested in the revolver, semi-auto aspect. I think she'd be comfortable with a revolver, but would it be prudent to get a semi-auto in order to get the additional legal right to carry either? Any thoughts appreciated.
1 posted on 01/23/2010 12:42:21 PM PST by Richard Kimball
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To: Richard Kimball
Why not look at a Browning Hi Power in 9MM. Beautiful gun, semi automatic, good for most jobs/
2 posted on 01/23/2010 12:47:45 PM PST by BooBoo1000
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To: Richard Kimball

Kahr P9 would be a good choice, small 9mm single stack, very easy to conceal and fits a small hand well. BTW, just because the zombies haven’t showed up yet they shouldn’t be counted out.


3 posted on 01/23/2010 12:48:10 PM PST by henry_reardon
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To: Richard Kimball

Pick up a Makarov (9x18)semiauto for about 200.00 and learn how to shoot it, then maybe upgrade. They are easy to shoot, accurate and ammo is cheap. Can’t go wrong.


4 posted on 01/23/2010 12:50:02 PM PST by refermech
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To: Richard Kimball

Believe it or not, a .45 ACP is not a bad choice. My wife who has small hands, small wrists and is not “strong” carries and shoots a Kimber SIS Pro in .45 ACP.

Best thing to do is to go to a range, try revolvers and semis in a variety of calibers and let her choose something that she shoots well and is comfortable with.

Hoss.


5 posted on 01/23/2010 12:50:42 PM PST by HossB86
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To: HossB86

That makes sense, and we’ll probably do some test firing. I’ve got access to everything except a 9, although I still think a .45 is a tad too big.
I have noticed, though, that kick isn’t just a function of caliber. Some .45s leave your arms in pain, while others have far less kick.


6 posted on 01/23/2010 12:54:03 PM PST by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: Richard Kimball
I'm particularly interested in the revolver, semi-auto aspect. I think she'd be comfortable with a revolver, but would it be prudent to get a semi-auto in order to get the additional legal right to carry either?

One thing to keep in mind is that a semi-auto uses the recoil in combination with the resistence provided by the hand/arms to cycle the round. It is possible to have a misfeed if the arms are not kept stiff enough during the recoil. This problem doesn't exist with a revolver.

Not sure it is much of an issue, but a potential consideration. Ultimately - it should be the firewarm that she is the most comfortable with. I'd recommend going to a range and having her try as many different types as possible.

7 posted on 01/23/2010 12:55:31 PM PST by !1776!
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To: Richard Kimball
A Ruger LCP in .380 ACP
or
S&W 642 with crimson trace DPX 110gr +p .38 Special

8 posted on 01/23/2010 12:56:04 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: BooBoo1000

Browning is nice!!!!! Not exactly cheap, though. Are all firearms up since the Bamster got in? I use on occasion, but never joined the “firearm of the month” club, so I only check the market every few years.


9 posted on 01/23/2010 12:56:56 PM PST by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: Richard Kimball

“If she tests with a revolver, her carry permit is only good for a revolver”.

Whats with this?


10 posted on 01/23/2010 12:58:48 PM PST by Tigen (I shall raise you one .)
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To: Richard Kimball

I had a smith 9mm semi. Wonderful to handle but for me, not a pro shooter, I found it very hard to be accurate with. My brother didn’t have that problem so I think it was the operator. :(


11 posted on 01/23/2010 12:59:11 PM PST by Outlaw Woman (If you remove the first Amendment, we'll be forced to move on to the next one.)
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To: Richard Kimball
"but would it be prudent to get a semi-auto in order to get the additional legal right to carry either?"

I don't understand this part. Does your local community impose caliber or format restrictions in order to obtain a CCW?

Although my primary carry is a semi-auto .45 I've found that revolvers make great "starter" weapons. I have a small-frame S&W model 19 in .357 that I used to teach my kids to shoot. With .38 ammo it was quite comfortable for them.
12 posted on 01/23/2010 12:59:44 PM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

Those are both excellent. Only problem is with the Ruger, I might want two. That is a beautifully designed small weapon.


13 posted on 01/23/2010 1:01:57 PM PST by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: Richard Kimball

Springfield Armory XD subcompact in either 9MM or .40 would be a good choice and it’s pretty economical. If you need to go a little less expensive, an S&W Sigma (not as refined but serviceable) or a used Glock 19 or 12 compact would also be good choices. I’m not big on Sig because they’re expensive and don’t feel as good as the Glock to me but they’re good choices if you can get a used one. Taurus model 85’s in .38 are good alternative to S&W and Ruger’s SP 101 in a revolver. I’ve never had an problems with my Taurus.


14 posted on 01/23/2010 1:02:17 PM PST by JMS
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To: refermech
Pick up a Makarov (9x18)semiauto for about 200.00 and learn how to shoot it, then maybe upgrade. They are easy to shoot, accurate and ammo is cheap. Can’t go wrong.

Most women do not have the upper body strength
to operate a blowback pistol like a Makarov.

Besides the recoil of a Makarov is punishing.
A better choice whoud be a CZ-82


15 posted on 01/23/2010 1:03:36 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: JMS

Sorry, meant a Glock 23 not 12.


16 posted on 01/23/2010 1:03:41 PM PST by JMS
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To: rockrr

If she intends to carry concealed I would suggest a simple S&W model 36 snub nose. It has stopping power and is concealable. If it is simply a house gun, a four inch .357 revolver loaded up with P+ .38spl rounds.


17 posted on 01/23/2010 1:04:34 PM PST by sarge83
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To: rockrr
If she takes the class with a semi-auto, she can carry either a semi-auto or revolver. If she takes it with a revolver, her permit is only good for a revolver.

The class itself, I've taken it, is mostly about safety, concealed carry laws, and not shooting yourself, although you do have to shoot at least fifty rounds with a semi-reasonable degree of accuracy.

The state reasoning is that since semi-autos are more complex, you should test with a semi to carry a semi, but if you can handle a semi, you should be able to handle a revolver.

18 posted on 01/23/2010 1:05:24 PM PST by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: Richard Kimball
Keep in mind that any .357/.38 can be downloaded with a wide variety of .38 special loads, even wadcutters for those who are especially sensitive. Which the J-frames a really good choice, either steel frame or the alloy 642/442.

Then again, for certain methods of concealed carry (big purse) the Ruger SP101 is very popular, and it can be loaded, as a helpful old-time told me once, "with anything a sane person would shoot in it".

19 posted on 01/23/2010 1:05:57 PM PST by OKSooner ("He's quite mad, you know." - James Bond to P. Galore in "Goldfinger".)
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To: Tigen

See my post #18.


20 posted on 01/23/2010 1:07:13 PM PST by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: sarge83

I’ve got a model 36 and it’s a good weapon. If we go revolver, that might be the way.


21 posted on 01/23/2010 1:08:18 PM PST by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: Richard Kimball

First thing I’d do is see which weapon fits her hand well. If she can’t hold it comfortably and securely and reach the controls, It doesn’t matter what caliber it is.

Revolvers are safer for beginners (easier to check if loaded).

In autos, Kahr, as mentioned previously, makes some nice carry pieces, small, light, and concealable. They have 9mm, .380, or 40 S&W.
Their 9’s are as small as other brands .380’s I would recommend a 9 over the .380 unless she’s really recoil sensitive. The ammo is much more powerful, more available, and sometimes even cheaper.


22 posted on 01/23/2010 1:10:52 PM PST by E.Allen
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To: Richard Kimball

For close range self-defense - How about ‘The Judge’ Taurus .45/410 Revolver...?

(http://www.taurus-handguns.com/item/167268_Taurus_Hand_Guns_Pistols_TAU_2441031TC_____M410_45.aspx)


23 posted on 01/23/2010 1:10:55 PM PST by ICCtheWay
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To: Richard Kimball

Unless someone wants to take up shooting as a hobby , by that I mean beyond that what is required for decent proficiency , I like to see new shooters to try revolvers . A four inch barreled double action .38 special is great handling in most shooters hands and very concealable . If you stick with a lightly used , quality brand , you can get your money back if you change your mind .


24 posted on 01/23/2010 1:11:20 PM PST by kbennkc (For those who have fought for it , freedom has a flavor the protected will never know F Trp 8th Cav)
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To: Richard Kimball
My advice to anyone that is not an actively competitive shooter that is able and willing to constantly practice with their firearm is always go for a revolver. When a potential victim is terrified, it's dark, and they are functioning on adrenaline it will go bang first time, every-time.
25 posted on 01/23/2010 1:12:37 PM PST by bitterohiogunclinger (America held hostage - day 393)
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To: OKSooner

I’ve always liked the versatility of the .357/.38. I am also a little concerned about jamming with a semi-auto.


26 posted on 01/23/2010 1:14:15 PM PST by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: !1776!
It is possible to have a misfeed if the arms are not kept stiff enough during the recoil. This problem doesn't exist with a revolver.

Very good point . I have seen big strong men , whose limp wristed hold caused a malfunction .

27 posted on 01/23/2010 1:14:53 PM PST by kbennkc (For those who have fought for it , freedom has a flavor the protected will never know F Trp 8th Cav)
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To: Richard Kimball

Ruger SP101.

Got one for my daughter when she turned 21 back in the mid-90’s and she went to combat hand gunning school with it and swears by it ever since.

Probably the ultimate purse gun.

I have one for myself, and, with it in a pocket holster, it is a great walk-about defensive weapon.


28 posted on 01/23/2010 1:15:08 PM PST by x1stcav (Charter member of the Yukon Army..)
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To: Richard Kimball

Individual handgun recommendations for semiautos are pretty much useless unless the lady can easily rack the slide and finds the grip comfortable for her hand. Everyone is going to recommend their own personal favorite.

I think the thing to do is take her to a gun shop and have her handle a variety of different guns. For girls, the size of the grip, weight, and slide stiffness are usually bigger issues than for guys.

She’ll be able to rule out alot of options and make a short list of contenders real quick just by handling a bunch of different guns.


29 posted on 01/23/2010 1:16:49 PM PST by Zeddicus
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To: ICCtheWay

That’s a cool one. I was worried about this. There are so many good choices. Am I the only one who thinks it’s weird that it’s illegal to saw off a shotgun, but perfectly legal to make a pistol that shoots shotgun shells?


30 posted on 01/23/2010 1:17:03 PM PST by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: Richard Kimball

Get her a copy of “Armed and Female” by Paxton Quigley.

It’s in paperback, and I think amazon still has it.

The book may be a trifle outdated, since it was published some years back, but it’s still a fabulous book, and discusses several options for the female (i.e., smaller person/smaller hands).
The recommendations include the “intimidation factor” of each weapon!

Or, see www.paxtonquigley.com or www.corneredcat.com

HTH! Rad


31 posted on 01/23/2010 1:18:41 PM PST by Radagast the Fool ("Mexico-Beirut with tacos!"--Dr. Zoidberg)
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To: bitterohiogunclinger; kbennkc

You two and a couple of others have me really leaning towards a revolver.


32 posted on 01/23/2010 1:19:01 PM PST by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: Richard Kimball

“She is relatively small…,”

So for concealed, size and weight of the weapon would seem the most important for her. First, of course, is that it go bang every time. And, you get that with a revolver.

Ditto what rockrr and HossB86 stated upthread.

Recommend she consider testing with a rented semi-auto, then rent, experiment and buy and carry a revolver first. Experiment later with the semi’s and learn how to quickly clear a malfunction.

Rhetorical question: What sort of circumstance could she find herself in that would make her wish she could fire more than 5 or 6 rounds before having to reload?

Caveat! Read the reviews re the Kahr P9, looks great but may be problematic for reliable self defense.


33 posted on 01/23/2010 1:21:54 PM PST by frog in a pot (It's a myth, folks. The frog will jump out and he will be pi$$ed. Ever had big warts?)
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To: Richard Kimball

There are some nice .380’s out there.
And .25 cals can still punch holes rather well.
Might need Glaser safety slugs for it though.


34 posted on 01/23/2010 1:21:56 PM PST by Darksheare (Tar is cheap, and feathers are plentiful.)
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To: Richard Kimball
I have two suggestions. The first is one of those Czech import CZ-82 pistols. They're compact, hold 12 rounds of 9X18 (NOT 9MM Luger) ammo, are reliable, and pack about the same power as a .38 spl in a semi-auto configuration.

I own two of them and they're great litle pistols for less than $250.00. Ammo is plentiful and relatively inexpensive meaning she can PRACTICE.

The second is a Charter Arms Bulldog chambered in .44 spl. I've got one of these and they're also rugged, surprisingly accurate, and pack about the same punch as the .45 ACP round in a much more compact package.

They're also relatively inexpensive.

Either one of them would be a good choice for a first carry pistol IMO.

Just my two cents, your mileage may vary.

Best,

L

35 posted on 01/23/2010 1:23:22 PM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Richard Kimball
Consider Glock Model 27 in .40 S&W

36 posted on 01/23/2010 1:23:41 PM PST by Touch Not the Cat
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To: Richard Kimball

If you’re looking for a revolver larger than the Smith J frames, consider a Ruger SP101 (bull strong) which will handle .357 and .38 Special, or one of my favorites, a used (no new production) Colt Detective Special, .38 only but holds 6 rounds - it’s about mid way in size between the J and K frames.


37 posted on 01/23/2010 1:25:39 PM PST by Tijeras_Slim (Live jubtabulously!)
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To: Richard Kimball

The NRA short pistol course is for either revolver or autoloader.

I suggest she take an NRA long course, which will take all day and include range time. My students are all urged to take the long course because it includes a written test. Should she have to defend herself, and a bottom feeding lawyer (OK, OK, forgive the redundancy!) wants to claim she was not properly trained, the test results and her qualification target are available.

So much for shark repellent.

I suggest the Charter Arms .38 revolvers because of their lightness, low cost, availability with a laser sight (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED ! ! !) and the reliability/simplicity of a wheel gun.

Suggest to her that she shoot lots of low powered .38 wad cutters and carry the best defense loads she can afford.

Possession of a musical instrument does not a musician make. Neither does owning a handgun make one competent to defend one’s life in a gun fight.

Perfect practice makes perfect, so find her a good shooting coach. NRA has quite a list of ‘em.


38 posted on 01/23/2010 1:25:44 PM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: Richard Kimball

I don’t think size matters. One of our best shooters on the NG pistol team was a 110 lb female. Either that or a .380 as others have suggested.


39 posted on 01/23/2010 1:29:30 PM PST by Arrowhead1952 (New Year's Resolution: Never, ever, ever again vote for anyone with a (d) after their name.)
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To: Richard Kimball

I forgot to mention we shot only .45 M1911s.


40 posted on 01/23/2010 1:31:21 PM PST by Arrowhead1952 (New Year's Resolution: Never, ever, ever again vote for anyone with a (d) after their name.)
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To: Richard Kimball

What part of Texas is she in?

In April, I will be holding a “Ladies Learn to Shoot Day” near Austin where we will have about 60 guns of many calibers that she can try out. We furnish guns, ammo, and one on one NRA qualified shooting instructors. The course lasts half a day on a private range, all for the kingly sum of $35.


41 posted on 01/23/2010 1:31:32 PM PST by basil (It's time to rid the country of "Gun Free Zones" aka "Killing Fields")
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To: basil
I'm heading out with the family right now, will be back later. EVERYONE PLEASE CONTINUE TO POST SUGGESTIONS!!! I'm checking every one!

We're just up the road from Austin and go there all the time. I'll freepmail you this pm.

THANKS

42 posted on 01/23/2010 1:34:58 PM PST by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: Richard Kimball; GladesGuru
Beginners should start with NRA Certified training

I would recommend training
from an NRA Certified Instructor in

Refuse to be a victim
NRA training for women
Basic pistol
Personal protection in the home
and the newly released
Personal protection outside the home

NRA Gun Safety Rules

Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction

Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot

Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use

NRA T/C CRSO

43 posted on 01/23/2010 1:35:54 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Richard Kimball

>>She is relatively small, so please no suggestions for .45s, .50 Desert Eagles, etc.<<

.
Get a .45 before you get the “tiny” 9 mm Rohrbaugh. The latter is a cute and well made gun but will try to separate your hand from the rest of your body every time you pull the trigger.


44 posted on 01/23/2010 1:37:11 PM PST by 353FMG (Save the Planet -- Eliminate Socialism)
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To: 353FMG

Yeah, that’s the balance of size and power. The “noisy cricket” problem can be an issue.


45 posted on 01/23/2010 1:39:45 PM PST by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: Richard Kimball

If she has the strength and dexterity to work the slide on a semi, that would be preferable to give her the broadest choices. If that’s a problem, I would go with a .38 revolver. My wife also has trouble racking the slide on a semi but she likes my .357 Taurus tracker wheel gun with a 4” ported barrel that shoots seven .38 specials. The ports reduce the recoil; the 4” barrel allows for better aim and I replaced the original tickler grips with Hogue which further cuts the recoil. If she feels uniquely and regularly threatened, I would go with the revolver. They always do what they’re supposed to.


46 posted on 01/23/2010 1:50:47 PM PST by Postman
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

NRA rocks.. I just joined


47 posted on 01/23/2010 1:53:51 PM PST by DollyCali (Don't tell God how big your storm is...Tell the storm how big your God is!)
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To: Postman

Walthers 9mm - nice gun - easy handling, not as bulky as a glock ..


48 posted on 01/23/2010 1:55:10 PM PST by Froggie
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To: Postman

Walthers 9mm - nice gun - easy handling, not as bulky as a glock ..


49 posted on 01/23/2010 1:55:17 PM PST by Froggie
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To: Postman

Walthers 9mm - nice gun - easy handling, not as bulky as a glock ..


50 posted on 01/23/2010 1:55:28 PM PST by Froggie
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