Skip to comments.New Written Language of Ancient Scotland Discovered
Posted on 04/06/2010 4:24:41 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
photo: Rob Knell and Rob Lee
The ancestors of modern Scottish people left behind mysterious, carved stones that new research has just determined contain the written language of the Picts, an Iron Age society that existed in Scotland from 300 to 843. The highly stylized rock engravings, found on what are known as the Pictish Stones, had once been thought to be rock art or tied to heraldry. The new study, published in the Proceedings of the Royal Society A, instead concludes that the engravings represent the long lost language of the Picts, a confederation of Celtic tribes that lived in modern-day eastern and northern Scotland... Rob Lee... a professor in the School of Biosciences at the University of Exeter... and colleagues Philip Jonathan and Pauline Ziman analyzed the engravings, found on the few hundred known Pictish Stones. The researchers used a mathematical process known as Shannon entropy to study the order, direction, randomness and other characteristics of each engraving. The resulting data was compared with that for numerous written languages, such as Egyptian hieroglyphs, Chinese texts and written Latin, Anglo-Saxon, Old Norse, Ancient Irish, Old Irish and Old Welsh. While the Pictish Stone engravings did not match any of these, they displayed characteristics of writing based on a spoken language. Lee explained that writing comes in two basic forms: lexigraphic writing that is based on speech and semasiography, which is not based on speech.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.discovery.com ...
About five years ago we had a lively discussion on FR about Pictish writing.
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The riders do not appear to have stirrups. Not introduced to Europe until about the 8th Century.
Hey, Joe. Give me a call when you get ready to open that.
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This is an ultra-low-volume ping list (typically weeks to months between pings, for matters related to Highland bagpipes and Scotland).
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Going to the Games? Organize a Clan FReeper get-together!
I ain’t gonna argue with the guys,but why can’t they just be like a frieze depicting a hunting or battle scene that can be viewed and understood by everyone regardless of nationality.
Those drawing on the caves in France showing the guys hunting and doing various things, was not a secret language,they could not write but they could draw...
I doubt it.
Pictish stone found by gravedigger
most significant in decade - expert [Shetland]
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Will read and comment later..
And now for something completly different....
Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict....
From the Ummaguumma album by Pink Floyd....
The track consists of several minutes of noises resembling rodents and birds simulated by Waters’ voice and other techniques, such as tapping the microphone played at different speeds, followed by Waters providing a few stanzas of quasi-lyrics in an exaggerated Scottish burr.
The Picts were the indigenous people of what is now Scotland who merged with the Scots.
You can Pict your frieze but you can’t Pict its prose.
Great book, great writer.
That’s what I like Joe.
You can always be counted on for a “Pict-O-Gram.”
Several species of small furry animals gathered together in a cave and grooving with a ....
Can’t read it, huh? Lol.
Barry Fell noted that this particular image from the Gundestrup Cauldron is holding up his hands and spelling “thunder” in Ogham — and the figure is a thunder deity. One view (which IMHO is correct) is that the method of writing began as fingerspelling, a way to communicate silently and (if others were unfamiliar with it) secretly.
I used to enjoy that track.
I’d quibble, there aren’t any indigenous people, or rather, no uniquely indigenous people — we’ve all come from where we’ve come from (I live about a half mile from where I was born, by coinky-dinky); the Picts entered Scotland from Ireland, probably because they got their butts kicked out. :’)
Lots of stone
I wonder how they ran it through a photocopier
No jokes from me, you never laugh, lol.
Gaelic in Eire was not taught to outsiders,in the 18 and 19 century the brits outlawed the speaking of the gaelic language..
So it went underground,when i went to school they taught it as a second language.
I believe it is dead now,we are all Europeans...
My MUTE key is stuck - on MUTE
Interesting stuff. I find your name on many of these history threads. If you have a ping list, please add me. I enjoy your postings.
Freeper Iron Munro's last name is Scottish, it translates to "(originating or coming) from the River Ro". The river Ro is in Ireland. Maybe his people had a hand in this saga.
All the street signs in Ireland are in Gaelic, as well as the titles of government officials. How can you say the language is dead?
Oh, I think this is very cool! Weren’t the picts considered witches?
Did they have anything to do with the Druids? Wonder if it would shed light on the Druids?
They don’t teach it in schools anymore,when i was going to school 44 yrs ago the christian brothers taught me to speak it.
When i left school i never used it and now have largely forgotten it..
I believe there is one little community on the West coast that still speaks it..
The river Roe is in Ireland...;>)
On Lurker's IPod.
here we go....once upon a time...there was a bunch of men and they had a bunch of horses....
if these pics are on stone, they should be on paper someplace
I have the album but never got into it,all other albums up to Echoes are classic and never tire of listening to..
When we were touring there in 2001, our guides told us it was taught in all the schools. Whether I misunderstood, or not, I was on a bus on 9-11-01 between Blarney and Waterford when, suddenly our bus driver and our guide (who had been continuously joking and singing with us) suddenly got very quiet and addressed each other in Gaelic. My husband and I were sitting right behind them and we couldn’t understand a word they said. The guide turned away from the driver, and stepped one row back to us and addressed my husband in hushed tones.
He told us about what had happened earlier that day in NYC. Then he asked my husband, “What do you think I should do?” My husband replied, “Tell them, and then turn on the radio and turn up the volume so we all can hear!”
So, the guide made his way to the back of the bus, criss-crossing the aisle and notifying passengers in groups of 5 or 6. And we listened to Irish radio when the 2nd plane went into the tower, when they announced that another plane had flown into the Pentagon, when yet another crashed into the field in PA. We cheered President Bush’s words of encouragement and steely resolve to the nation.
That moment changed the rest of the trip and changed all of our lives forever. And it all started with a whispered conversation in a foreign country, in a language none of us understood - Gaelic.
My daughter was in London on 9-11-01 and she said there was a period of silence in downtown London when they got the word. Don’t remember how long she said it was but she said no one moved or spoke.
BTW, on Friday of that week we went to Mass at the Cathedral in Galway. The Mass was in Gaelic. I couldn’t even identify the Our Father, which I usually can in foreign languages — that’s how different Gaelic is to American ears! LOL. The President of Ireland led the procession of dignatories. And the offertory consisted of some equipment for the NY Firefighters from the Irish people. The entire country was shut down that Friday, except for necessities such as a few pharmacies. You couldn’t get fed, or a drink at a pub, unless you were a tourist already booked at a hotel. THe Irish populace had to eat and drink at home.
BTW, the Galway Cathedral is beautiful — all decorated with mosaic pictures in different colored stone from every county in Ireland. I don’t think there was any stained glass — just stone pictures which made it look like you were viewing them through a mist because the colors were so soft.
In Ireland they declared Friday of that week a whole day of mourning (see above). Nothing was open except for places that sold emergency supplies. We did not know if, or when, we could get out and I had brought only the right amount of medecine for our trip. I spent the afternoon in a Galway Pharmacy getting additional Lipitor. The pharmacist was so nice — called my home pharmacy in Wisconsin to work out the right measurement because US pills are in different dosages than the European counterparts. No charge for the long distance call.
The Cathedral was packed with tourists and townspeople. When we came out of Mass, the parking lot was filled with shoulder to shoulder people who could not get in and the priests distributed Communion to all who wanted it.
There were books of condolence that we could sign all over town and at the church too.
Yeah the older generation speak it especially in Galway ,i think the last gaeltacht is located in Galway,when i was a kid we were camping in Galway i tried to speak Gaelic to a barman he could not understand one word i said and i could not understand him either...
I believe the Gov invests money to keep the language alive,but as newer generations come along,they lose interest in learning it..
That is a very interesting story regarding 911...
The druids were not really a sect, more like the village shaman / witch doctor; their time had passed, the Romans wiped ‘em out in the parts of Britain they occupied, and Christian missionaries went beyond the frontiers into Ireland and Scotland with a more attractive deal.
The translation is “giddyap!”
Who was that masked man??? And there’s an indian...