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New Written Language of Ancient Scotland Discovered
Discovery News ^ | Wednesday, March 31, 2010 | Jennifer Viegas

Posted on 04/06/2010 4:24:41 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

New Written Language of Ancient Scotland Discovered
photo: Rob Knell and Rob Lee
The ancestors of modern Scottish people left behind mysterious, carved stones that new research has just determined contain the written language of the Picts, an Iron Age society that existed in Scotland from 300 to 843. The highly stylized rock engravings, found on what are known as the Pictish Stones, had once been thought to be rock art or tied to heraldry. The new study, published in the Proceedings of the Royal Society A, instead concludes that the engravings represent the long lost language of the Picts, a confederation of Celtic tribes that lived in modern-day eastern and northern Scotland... Rob Lee... a professor in the School of Biosciences at the University of Exeter... and colleagues Philip Jonathan and Pauline Ziman analyzed the engravings, found on the few hundred known Pictish Stones. The researchers used a mathematical process known as Shannon entropy to study the order, direction, randomness and other characteristics of each engraving. The resulting data was compared with that for numerous written languages, such as Egyptian hieroglyphs, Chinese texts and written Latin, Anglo-Saxon, Old Norse, Ancient Irish, Old Irish and Old Welsh. While the Pictish Stone engravings did not match any of these, they displayed characteristics of writing based on a spoken language. Lee explained that writing comes in two basic forms: lexigraphic writing that is based on speech and semasiography, which is not based on speech.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.discovery.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: caledonia; epigraphyandlanguage; godsgravesglyphs; pict; pictish; picts; scotland; scotlandyet; tanistry
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1 posted on 04/06/2010 4:24:41 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
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To: sionnsar; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 240B; 24Karet; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
About five years ago we had a lively discussion on FR about Pictish writing.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

·Dogpile · Archaeologica · LiveScience · Archaeology · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Discover · Nat Geographic · Texas AM Anthro News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · Google ·
· The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


2 posted on 04/06/2010 4:25:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SunkenCiv

3 posted on 04/06/2010 4:31:46 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet)
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To: SunkenCiv

The riders do not appear to have stirrups. Not introduced to Europe until about the 8th Century.


4 posted on 04/06/2010 4:36:05 PM PDT by Plutarch
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To: JoeProBono

Hey, Joe. Give me a call when you get ready to open that.


5 posted on 04/06/2010 4:38:29 PM PDT by Savage Beast (Goneril and Regan are running the U.S., and they're doing their best to silence Cordelia.)
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To: Twotone; Knitting A Conundrum; ThanhPhero; Julia H.; DuncanWaring; snuffy smiff; ottbmare; ...
Thanks to SunkenCiv for the ping.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
Pipes and Drums of FreeRepublic ping!

This is an ultra-low-volume ping list (typically weeks to months between pings, for matters related to Highland bagpipes and Scotland).
FReepmail sionnsar if you want on or off this list.

Going to the Games? Organize a Clan FReeper get-together!

6 posted on 04/06/2010 4:39:54 PM PDT by sionnsar (IranAzadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5:SONY|Remember Neda Agha-Soltan|TV--it's NOT news you can trust)
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To: SunkenCiv

I ain’t gonna argue with the guys,but why can’t they just be like a frieze depicting a hunting or battle scene that can be viewed and understood by everyone regardless of nationality.

Those drawing on the caves in France showing the guys hunting and doing various things, was not a secret language,they could not write but they could draw...


7 posted on 04/06/2010 4:42:01 PM PDT by GSP.FAN (Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.)
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To: Savage Beast

;-{)


8 posted on 04/06/2010 4:46:13 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet)
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To: SunkenCiv

Skeptic here

I doubt it.


9 posted on 04/06/2010 4:48:37 PM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Ostracize Democrats. There can be no Democrat friends.)
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To: GSP.FAN; bert
OTOH...
pictish ogham
Google

10 posted on 04/06/2010 5:02:04 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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Pictish stone found by gravedigger
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11 posted on 04/06/2010 5:08:14 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: JoeProBono
:-)
12 posted on 04/06/2010 5:08:27 PM PDT by Savage Beast (Goneril and Regan are running the U.S., and they're doing their best to silence Cordelia.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Will read and comment later..
And now for something completly different....

Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict....
From the Ummaguumma album by Pink Floyd....

The track consists of several minutes of noises resembling rodents and birds simulated by Waters’ voice and other techniques, such as tapping the microphone played at different speeds, followed by Waters providing a few stanzas of quasi-lyrics in an exaggerated Scottish burr.

The Picts were the indigenous people of what is now Scotland who merged with the Scots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Several_Species_of_Small_Furry_Animals_Gathered_Together_in_a_Cave_and_Grooving_with_a_Pict


13 posted on 04/06/2010 5:10:45 PM PDT by GSP.FAN (Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.)
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To: SunkenCiv
Ask him:


14 posted on 04/06/2010 5:16:19 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: SunkenCiv

You can Pict your frieze but you can’t Pict its prose.


15 posted on 04/06/2010 5:31:47 PM PDT by decimon
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To: colorado tanker

Great book, great writer.


16 posted on 04/06/2010 5:46:18 PM PDT by JMS
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To: JoeProBono; Salamander; Slings and Arrows; Markos33

That’s what I like Joe.

You can always be counted on for a “Pict-O-Gram.”


17 posted on 04/06/2010 5:50:11 PM PDT by shibumi (FReepMail me to get on the "Hippo Attack" ping list!)
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To: All

Several species of small furry animals gathered together in a cave and grooving with a ....


18 posted on 04/06/2010 5:53:51 PM PDT by Maverick68 (w)
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To: SunkenCiv
OK the markings done with simple slashes i can understand being a language.The Romans would not understand it.... The enigma of the symbol stones If there is one item that has come to typify the Picts in Scotland, it must surely be the numerous ornately carved symbol stones they left. No-one really knows with any degree of certainty why these enigmatic stones were erected or the significance of the symbols carved on them. But as with all things Pictish there are theories aplenty. Some scholars exclaim they were territorial markers, others that the stones commemorated great people or events. It has also been suggested that symbols may denote the rank of an individual within the community, perhaps recorded marriage treaties or were a means of representing personal Pictish names.
19 posted on 04/06/2010 5:54:21 PM PDT by GSP.FAN (Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.)
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To: potlatch

.

Bump


20 posted on 04/06/2010 6:18:15 PM PDT by devolve
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To: devolve

Can’t read it, huh? Lol.


21 posted on 04/06/2010 6:29:39 PM PDT by potlatch (~~"Where secrecy or mystery begins, vice or roguery is not far off. "~~)
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To: GSP.FAN

Barry Fell noted that this particular image from the Gundestrup Cauldron is holding up his hands and spelling “thunder” in Ogham — and the figure is a thunder deity. One view (which IMHO is correct) is that the method of writing began as fingerspelling, a way to communicate silently and (if others were unfamiliar with it) secretly.

http://www3.bell.net/sacredwheel/gundestrup.jpg


22 posted on 04/06/2010 6:50:11 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: colorado tanker

:’)


23 posted on 04/06/2010 7:06:53 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: GSP.FAN

I used to enjoy that track.

I’d quibble, there aren’t any indigenous people, or rather, no uniquely indigenous people — we’ve all come from where we’ve come from (I live about a half mile from where I was born, by coinky-dinky); the Picts entered Scotland from Ireland, probably because they got their butts kicked out. :’)


24 posted on 04/06/2010 7:09:50 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: potlatch

.

Lots of stone

I wonder how they ran it through a photocopier


25 posted on 04/06/2010 7:14:36 PM PDT by devolve
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To: devolve

Funny
No jokes from me, you never laugh, lol.


26 posted on 04/06/2010 7:20:12 PM PDT by potlatch (~~"Where secrecy or mystery begins, vice or roguery is not far off. "~~)
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To: Plutarch
"I'm Sir Arnold Stirrup, and I'll be your supporter for the evening."

Ian Anderson

27 posted on 04/06/2010 7:23:01 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SunkenCiv

Gaelic in Eire was not taught to outsiders,in the 18 and 19 century the brits outlawed the speaking of the gaelic language..
So it went underground,when i went to school they taught it as a second language.
I believe it is dead now,we are all Europeans...


28 posted on 04/06/2010 7:34:02 PM PDT by GSP.FAN (Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.)
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To: potlatch

.

LOL!

My MUTE key is stuck - on MUTE


29 posted on 04/06/2010 7:59:00 PM PDT by devolve
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To: SunkenCiv

Interesting stuff. I find your name on many of these history threads. If you have a ping list, please add me. I enjoy your postings.


30 posted on 04/07/2010 6:28:37 AM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: SunkenCiv; Iron Munro
"...the Picts entered Scotland from Ireland, probably because they got their butts kicked out. :’) ..."

Freeper Iron Munro's last name is Scottish, it translates to "(originating or coming) from the River Ro". The river Ro is in Ireland. Maybe his people had a hand in this saga.

31 posted on 04/07/2010 8:11:09 AM PDT by I Buried My Guns (It's not too late to begin your preps !)
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To: GSP.FAN

All the street signs in Ireland are in Gaelic, as well as the titles of government officials. How can you say the language is dead?


32 posted on 04/07/2010 9:09:45 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: devolve

I know.


33 posted on 04/07/2010 9:53:16 AM PDT by potlatch (~~"Where secrecy or mystery begins, vice or roguery is not far off. "~~)
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To: SunkenCiv

Oh, I think this is very cool! Weren’t the picts considered witches?

Did they have anything to do with the Druids? Wonder if it would shed light on the Druids?


34 posted on 04/07/2010 9:56:58 AM PDT by Beowulf9
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To: afraidfortherepublic

They don’t teach it in schools anymore,when i was going to school 44 yrs ago the christian brothers taught me to speak it.
When i left school i never used it and now have largely forgotten it..
I believe there is one little community on the West coast that still speaks it..


35 posted on 04/07/2010 10:29:57 AM PDT by GSP.FAN (Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.)
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To: I Buried My Guns

The river Roe is in Ireland...;>)


36 posted on 04/07/2010 11:01:43 AM PDT by GSP.FAN (Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.)
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To: GSP.FAN
Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict.... From the Ummaguumma album by Pink Floyd....

On Lurker's IPod.

37 posted on 04/07/2010 11:03:47 AM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Savage Beast; JoeProBono

Me too.


38 posted on 04/07/2010 11:26:23 AM PDT by Hoffer Rand (There ARE two Americas: "God's children" and the tax payers)
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To: SunkenCiv

here we go....once upon a time...there was a bunch of men and they had a bunch of horses....


39 posted on 04/07/2010 11:28:26 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (What)
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To: GSP.FAN

if these pics are on stone, they should be on paper someplace


40 posted on 04/07/2010 11:30:15 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (What)
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To: Lurker

I have the album but never got into it,all other albums up to Echoes are classic and never tire of listening to..


41 posted on 04/07/2010 11:43:38 AM PDT by GSP.FAN (Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.)
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To: GSP.FAN

When we were touring there in 2001, our guides told us it was taught in all the schools. Whether I misunderstood, or not, I was on a bus on 9-11-01 between Blarney and Waterford when, suddenly our bus driver and our guide (who had been continuously joking and singing with us) suddenly got very quiet and addressed each other in Gaelic. My husband and I were sitting right behind them and we couldn’t understand a word they said. The guide turned away from the driver, and stepped one row back to us and addressed my husband in hushed tones.

He told us about what had happened earlier that day in NYC. Then he asked my husband, “What do you think I should do?” My husband replied, “Tell them, and then turn on the radio and turn up the volume so we all can hear!”

So, the guide made his way to the back of the bus, criss-crossing the aisle and notifying passengers in groups of 5 or 6. And we listened to Irish radio when the 2nd plane went into the tower, when they announced that another plane had flown into the Pentagon, when yet another crashed into the field in PA. We cheered President Bush’s words of encouragement and steely resolve to the nation.

That moment changed the rest of the trip and changed all of our lives forever. And it all started with a whispered conversation in a foreign country, in a language none of us understood - Gaelic.


42 posted on 04/07/2010 12:53:19 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic

My daughter was in London on 9-11-01 and she said there was a period of silence in downtown London when they got the word. Don’t remember how long she said it was but she said no one moved or spoke.


43 posted on 04/07/2010 1:02:05 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: GSP.FAN

BTW, on Friday of that week we went to Mass at the Cathedral in Galway. The Mass was in Gaelic. I couldn’t even identify the Our Father, which I usually can in foreign languages — that’s how different Gaelic is to American ears! LOL. The President of Ireland led the procession of dignatories. And the offertory consisted of some equipment for the NY Firefighters from the Irish people. The entire country was shut down that Friday, except for necessities such as a few pharmacies. You couldn’t get fed, or a drink at a pub, unless you were a tourist already booked at a hotel. THe Irish populace had to eat and drink at home.

BTW, the Galway Cathedral is beautiful — all decorated with mosaic pictures in different colored stone from every county in Ireland. I don’t think there was any stained glass — just stone pictures which made it look like you were viewing them through a mist because the colors were so soft.


44 posted on 04/07/2010 1:06:58 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Ditter

In Ireland they declared Friday of that week a whole day of mourning (see above). Nothing was open except for places that sold emergency supplies. We did not know if, or when, we could get out and I had brought only the right amount of medecine for our trip. I spent the afternoon in a Galway Pharmacy getting additional Lipitor. The pharmacist was so nice — called my home pharmacy in Wisconsin to work out the right measurement because US pills are in different dosages than the European counterparts. No charge for the long distance call.

The Cathedral was packed with tourists and townspeople. When we came out of Mass, the parking lot was filled with shoulder to shoulder people who could not get in and the priests distributed Communion to all who wanted it.

There were books of condolence that we could sign all over town and at the church too.


45 posted on 04/07/2010 1:13:55 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Yeah the older generation speak it especially in Galway ,i think the last gaeltacht is located in Galway,when i was a kid we were camping in Galway i tried to speak Gaelic to a barman he could not understand one word i said and i could not understand him either...
I believe the Gov invests money to keep the language alive,but as newer generations come along,they lose interest in learning it..
That is a very interesting story regarding 911...
Slainte....


46 posted on 04/07/2010 2:05:05 PM PDT by GSP.FAN (Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.)
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To: GSP.FAN
Thank you. I cannot stress how accomodating and sympathetic the Irish were to us in the aftermath of 9/11, not that they were unkind before! Total strangers would approach us on the street and offer condolences. It was an odd feeling to be out of our own country at such a time of tragedy, but we were the recipients of Cead mile failte romhat!
47 posted on 04/07/2010 2:26:17 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Beowulf9

The druids were not really a sect, more like the village shaman / witch doctor; their time had passed, the Romans wiped ‘em out in the parts of Britain they occupied, and Christian missionaries went beyond the frontiers into Ireland and Scotland with a more attractive deal.


48 posted on 04/07/2010 2:43:10 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: Sacajaweau

The translation is “giddyap!”


49 posted on 04/07/2010 2:44:07 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SunkenCiv

Who was that masked man??? And there’s an indian...


50 posted on 04/07/2010 2:57:39 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (What)
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