Skip to comments.Have you had IRS problems?
Posted on 04/07/2010 10:18:39 AM PDT by Cowman
I posted a somewhat shorter version of this in a previous thread. I have been asked to expand it to a full post. Americans are now working their way through their tax forms and making valiant attempts to avoid using colorful language in reference to the tax people. For you this is a warning. If you have never had problems with the IRS you are very fortunate but rest assured you are in their crosshairs. The following is an experience I have had with the friendly, accessible government services that will be the template for the ever expanding O-care bureaucracy. 16500 more agents are being added to their ranks as you are reading this. Keep in mind that if they can do this to us they can do it to you or ANYONE And they will.
(Some of the details may have been changed slightly as there are legal matters pending)
It started when a friend of mine decided to cash out her 401k worth $150,000 to pay off the mortgage and a few other bills and start a small home business. The people at Fidelity said they had the account but couldn't release it due to an IRS lean. She went to the head IRS office in Boston where they informed her she had a $4500 lean for unpaid taxes from 2006. After begging and borrowing she got the money and paid the IRS. Then they said she was all set. She went back to the Fidelity office in Hartford who said it was not released. She went back to the IRS. There is a $400 release fee that needs to be paid. More loans were taken to pay that. The release was to be online in 24 hours.
She was at Fidelity as soon as the release was due. There was still a problem so call the IRS. There is another $5000 lean on the account -- from 2005. Use up more friendships borrow, beg, go back with the last possible $5000.Again they told her she was all set. When the mandatory 24hours was up there was still no release. IRS demanded another $400 fee - more borrowing. At last the fee was paid but Fidelity still had a hold on the account. After calling her Senator and congressman, and having their offices call the agent in charge of the Boston IRS office, they offered the services of the ombudsman. They said only one more lean and The account will be clear, and its only $4200 this time She had to call everyone she knew and ask them to cash their paychecks and youll get it back in 2 days. the last lean was paid They guaranteed the money would be available but there was one little wrinkle: Youre paid up, but the release has to be mailed from the Official Office of Lean Releases in the IRS headquarters in DC -- Or you could go down there and pick it up (snicker) Well she borrowed my car (after selling her own to raise funds) and went down to the pit on the Potomac
When she got there they made her wait four hours past her appointment time. (They didnt even offer her a cup of coffee while she waited.) She didnt waste the waiting time though she met with a law firm that specializes in defending citizens against the IRS.
As it turns out the IRS is legally required to provide an itemized list of everything owed at the first meeting -- something they never did even though they had no less than four opportunities. In addition we found out the agent in charge of the Boston IRS office is related to someone that had a case against her last year. IRS came up with a $25000 tax bill from a business, 1200 miles away that was sold at a loss in 2001 and the business license was never canceled. (A clerical error on the part of the buyer) According to the priests of owings at the IRS the business was sending over 180k to her every year even though she had filed a personal income tax in the state of Massachusetts for less than 40k since the business was sold. Nobody ever asked why, if she had received all that they say she had WHY would she take a job with payroll deduction and spend a whole year in an attempt to free 150k? With the help of several tax attorneys she managed to negotiate down to 15k and the race was on to collect even more before Fidelity returned the money to liquid status. (That would require 30 - 90 days before the account could be drawn down.) An account with IRS was set up and any money that could be found was put in. My coin collection was sold, (including a gorgeous 1944 WLH that I meant to keep forever) Computers were pawned, Rent was not paid, Entire paychecks went to the cause. By bits and pieces the 15k was collected. On the day of the deadline all was there but $750. Less than an hour after closing it was deposited. Unfortunately, this was credited on the day after the deadline making the negotiated deal toast, incurring fines for not making the deadline AND incurring interest not on the $750 that was late BUT ON THE WHOLE 25K. With fees and fines we were back to $22,500.
After nearly a year of scraping up whatever could be put together and many, legal conference calls, another settlement was reached for 12,500. During this time, because of the Obama administration efforts to destroy medical research through socializing the industry, my employer of 12 years decided to close this, supposedly their flagship, site. I thought fine, Ill get a large severance, pay off any outstanding fines and use the money we have been fighting over to pay off the accumulated debts. But I find out that the IRS has my 401k locked up (Enough to pay them and a few others off and finish this thing.) Apparently IRS indenture doesnt qualify as a hardship.
After several months and several more strained relationships the full amount was paid. The IRS account read $0.00 so we dodged creditor calls and waited through the 24 hour posting period until we could get our own money. When she went down to pick up her check she found that because of a mass outage of the IRS computer system the release could not be posted wed just have to wait until they were fixed. Two weeks later they were not fixed. After investigation by the legal team (Having to say that makes me feel like OJ Simpson.) we found the computers were back up in a matter of hours but IRS still refused to let go of the money; Even though they had no legal right to hold onto it. The attorneys came up with a plan to get it away from them by moving it to another state that is out of the reach of the Boston office but the plan would take 15K 20K and 6-12 weeks. This is where we stand today.
My home of 12 years has gone to the cause and long time friends have been avoiding us for months. The principals in this are living in their car and dodging repossession and Ramen noodles have become a delacacy. We now have a team of attorneys working on this in Boston, Hartford and DC. I never really complained about the tax structure in this country before this. I thought the tax rates were far too high and I thought that tax money was being wasted on lots of really stupid programs but I just figured that was the way it was and nothing could be done about it that wasnt at least as bad as the inconvenience of the tax code. That has changed. I now see the income tax as a purely evil institution that has been established not for the purpose of supplying the funds needed to run the military and pave the roads but it was established to be the knee breakers of the federal government. If you run afoul of any of their minions THEY WILL DESTROY YOU.
The worst thing about allowing these government gangsters to have such power is the damage they do by their very existence. The morality of the income tax is dubious at best but these bureaucratic leaches are completely without morality. They take without giving back. They say they are providing for the poor by funding benevolence programs but what they do is take food from the producers tables, heat from their homes, and even medical insurance and prescription drugs. Without the crushing tax load these people would purchase these things for themselves and their own children. They have earned these things by working for them. Even tuition at a good private school could be purchased if only the tax Nazis didnt steal the substance of those who work. those who have had 60% or more of their income stolen from them are either forced to cheat to stave off impoverishment or are driven into the very failed programs that are funded by what was stolen from them thus making them dependent on those who have legally mugged them. Even Al Capone or Sam Giancana couldnt come up with such a racket.
These are the self-important, power-mad autocrats are the ones that the victims of public education want in control of the medical industry. I work in medical research. When I heard one of these brainwashed Obomunists complaining that he wasnt getting enough work hours I (politely and in an effort to educate the moron) mentioned that if socialized medicine goes through we would all be out of a job because no drug company would spend the half billion dollars needed to develop a new drug if they couldnt make a profit by selling it on the open market. His response was to curse those evil drug companies that wont produce life saving drugs if they cant make money on them. I was also subjected to a screed on the evils of profit. He had absolutely no concept that it was the very profits he was denouncing that was what made up his paycheck. This is what the government sponsored mobsters use your tax dollars for -- to teach your children socialist Garbage like this. Nothing about American history, but they are pumped full of Marxist / Leninist theology and earth worship.
The founders of this country believed that all authority and power was given to the individual by God and was then temporarily given to the elected officials. The Declaration defines King George III as a tyrant; He has erected a multitude of new offices and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people and eat out their substance. It is time to take that temporarily given power back from the tyrannical bureaucrats. Even the French understood the dangers of this sort of tyranny. As Bastiat once wrote, "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
The enemy of freedom hides behind State Police bodyguards, bulletproof glass and bomb proof buildings. He has no fear of the people. He can without conscience target anyone he wishes for destruction, with or without reason, he is the schoolyard bully who can extract lunch money and give out atomic wedgies without fear of a higher authority taking action against him. This sort of power drunk narcissist desperately need to have the fear of God put into him, but there is no God to these people but the god of power and the god of self. This Leftist theology is constructed by those who have given themselves to our present system has constructed their own alternate morality; one that is completely opposite to biblical morality
Ever since President Taft (A Republican BTW) signed the income tax into law, even though he considered it to be unconstitutional, we have been on a downward slide of diminishing freedom. Liberty has been defined as the ability of the individual to choose their path in their life. Ones life is most associated with their work -- what they do to make money. Therefore the freedom to do with ones own money is the basis of liberty as their money is what their labor has been exchanged for. when the government takes individual labor to pay for what that individual has no say in or even sees as a moral evil what is had is tyranny. If this was done based on skin color it would be called slavery but because the adherents of the slave mentality have been so brainwashed as to believe that taxes are our duty rather than the means of our oppression the Progressive overlords, aided and abetted by their puppets in the press, have pushed all dissent to what they have called the Fringe or the Radical Right This is what your tax dollars are used for.
It came slowly over the last hundred years or so but ultimately we have given the enemy the levers that control our lives and now they have set them to maximum load. The enemy has taken over the education structure, the legal structure, and the media structure and thus has taken over our culture. Our labors are taken to pay for the abominations of ACORN, the production of so called art that serves the propagandist needs of the enslaving State and to government run indoctrination centers where our own children are immersed in a purple haze of liberal truisms and Leninist doctrines. All this is for the purpose of erasing any rightness or goodness that is derived from the religious faith that their parents endeavor to give them. This is what your tax dollars are used for.
We have seen this in the videos of government school children forced to sing hymns in praise of Obama. We have a government consisting of those who worship the earth, Who worship the gods of the UN, Who worship the power derived from controlling the currency who seek human sacrifice through abortion, who bow down to the gods of celebrity and who seek to control your choice of what to eat, the kind of car you drive and when and where to drive it. They desire control of your thermostat so that you will not be able to make unrighteous decisions about how warm to keep your house. They wish to control your electricity use and your radios to prevent your delicate ears from the heresies of Limbaugh and Savage. The dark power of political correctness will even control what you think. When scientific facts are presented that disprove their mindless adherence to the false doctrine of global warming they refuse to hear the truth and turn to the power of their fellows in government to silence the infidel. When the horror of abortion is presented they fall into the mantra of choice. if a woman chooses to have the baby and marry the father they tear their garments and gnash their teeth as if a great heresy has been committed They surround themselves with a ceremonial fog of progressive myopia that has become their godless faith. This is what your tax dollars pay for
We have a movement started but unless we fight harder than the enemy has ever imagined we will suffer the thousand years of darkness Ronald Reagan warned of. With the enemy in power people will be forced to sneak down dark alleys and whisper coded messages to express dissent. The current leaders of the enemy forces learned their tactics in the Chicago of Al Capone and Bugsy Segal so the same tactics must be used against them. I am not saying that we need to start storming offices and throwing the Schutzstaffel out of windows or following them home to sledgehammer their kneecaps, although that would instill the needed fear of the people in them.
We need to fight with the means of the courts and the new media. Internet sources are probably the most powerful means of exposing and embarrassing the dark forces seeking to destroy America (God bless Andrew Brietbart BTW) we still have some shreds of freedom of expression. Conservative talk radio has not yet been driven to broadcasting from ships outside the five mile limit. The internet will be more difficult to silence but it wont stop the totalitarians from attempting to cause bloggers and pod casters to disappear into the American gulags. We are beyond disagreement. We are beyond angry. We are mad real mad. We know who the enemy is, we know where the enemy is and we just wont take their socialist crap anymore
It is time to take back the means of controlling our lives by taking from these petty bureaucrats and desk driving dictators the power to do so even if the doing looks like the castle riot in Frankenstein. They are parasites and the only way to get rid of a parasite is to make their risk greater than their reward. Sooner or later these demonic bureaucrats are going to take too much and the individual citizens of this country will have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking them out. It just may be that this epic battle is the crisis that cannot go to waste that Rahm Emmanuel spoke of but they will learn there are more of us than there are of them. The Tea Party people have made a good start along with the Dynamic Duo who are working to take down ACORN but this battle is far from over. Pray that we will have the stomach and the backbone to finish what they have started
I tell you I don’t want a revolution or civil war, but if the only thing one accomplishes is completely getting rid of the IRS then I’ll sign on.
IRS is the most rogue and out of control government agency in existence. The BATFE (second most out of control) are incompetent amateurs compared to the IRS.
I was once audited and the auditor was a real piece of work. I think she hated men. I eventually took it to tax court and the assistant U.S. Attorney phoned me the day before it went to trial and told me after reviewing the case, he agreed with me and he asked the case be dismissed in my favor.
On the other hand I have know a couple of people who dealt with them and said they were as nice as could be and ended up getting refunds. It probably has something to do with who you are dealing with.
BTW, this story doesn’t sound quite right to me. Also it is Lien, not lean.
And spell check didn't like it the other way.
We have never been in trouble with the IRS, just always owe them money due to both dh and I being self-employed. My experience with IRS people, phone calls only, has been very positive. In fact, one elderly hispanic agent counseled me to, “Not yell at your husband when he gets home. Ask him, very nicely, to teach you how to fill out these forms so you can do it yourself.” I still shake my head in wonderment over that call!
Having said that, I never, ever want to get on the bad side of the IRS.
I have been screwed by the IRS multiple times. For three years in a row, they told us we had no child and owed back taxes, interest and penalties. Each time we had to send in a birth certificate (long form at that mind you) and wait for them to decide if we had a kid or not. Now this was when she was nine years old so they had recognized her for that length of time.
I finally got a supervisor to admit, after I went on a tirade the third time, that they we using us a training method for their agents.
Same thing happened to me last year (first year with a child). I expect it will probably happen this year as well.
It started when a friend of mine decided to cash out her 401k worth $150,000 to pay off the mortgage and a few other bills and start a small home business. The people at Fidelity said they had the account but couldn't release it due to an IRS lean. She went to the head IRS office in Boston <= RIGHT THERE
I was called in by the IRS and I knew I owed them at least $8K. I got the best recommended representative and he went in and got out for $2500. Never represent yourself in dealings with the IRS. They love it when you do. They chuckle to themselves when you walk in. This actually has a lot to do with the way their performance is evaluated.
In every city there are representatives that they hate because they chew up their time (making their time management eval poor in the process) and generally make their lives miserable. They want them out of their office as soon as possible. This is the type of person you want representing you. Even it seems small. Even if it seems something you shouldn't have to pay for representation for. There are enough publicized examples that everyone should know never to the IRS (and any Law Enforcement agency for that matter) without skilled representation.
This is something I have burned on my consciousness from now on. If we had representation for the first meeting they would have locked themselves into a specific number and would have had to abide by the law that requires them to give an itemized bill of what is owed and why.
Don't go in with just a CPA. Take a lawyer that specializes in dealing with these parasites.
I had something similar to your example happen two years ago. They reassessed my taxes and mailed me their demand. I corresponded with them, both by mail and by phone calls, found out what documentation was necessary to verify my status and sent the documentation to them.
They summarily denied my documentation (”we didn’t review it because we don’t have to”), and reiterated the deadline for payment.
I sent them essentially the same information again, along with a narrative that explained in minute detail my claim, and this time they reduced (without comment or explanation) the tax liability by several thousand dollars to something less than a grand.
I spoke with my CPA and two tax attorneys who all told me the same thing - “Get out your checkbook, cut them a check, and consider yourself lucky”. No one - even the claims adjuster at the IRS - doubted my claim, my story, or my sincerity, but every one of them warned me that if I took it to court I could lose and subject myself to even greater jeopardy.
So the IRS fleeced me for the sheer sport of it.
Like a cat toying with a mouse it is the tormenting they enjoy.
Whether you get on “their bad” side or not, we are all still slaves until the IRS is abolished. Abuse is built in. FLAT TAX!
What are the odds?