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Hobbit debate goes out on some limbs
ScienceNews ^ | May 8, 2010 | Bruce Bower

Posted on 04/23/2010 11:21:30 AM PDT by decimon

Two fossil hobbits have given what’s left of their arms and legs to science. That wasn’t enough, though, to quell debate over hobbits’ evolutionary status at the annual meeting of the American Association of Physical Anthropologists on April 17.

Since 2004, the discoverers of unusual “hobbit” fossils on the Indonesian island of Flores have attributed their find to a pint-sized species, Homo floresiensis, that lived there from 95,000 to 17,000 years ago. These researchers also suspect, on the basis of hobbit anatomy and recent stone tool discoveries on Flores, that H. floresiensis evolved from a currently unknown hominid species that migrated from Africa to Indonesia more than 1 million years ago.

Critics say the finds represent nothing more than human pygmies like those still living on Flores. In their opinion, the centerpiece hobbit find — a partial skeleton of an adult female known as LB1 — is what’s left of a woman who suffered from a developmental disorder that resulted in an unusually small brain and a misshapen skull and lower body.

But arm and leg fossils from LB1 and a second hobbit appear robust, not unhealthy, according to a new study directed by William Jungers of Stony Brook University in New York. The bones display humanlike thickness in the tough tissue that forms the outer shell of most bones, and opposite sides of the limb bones exhibit comparable thickness, a sign of healthy growth, said Stony Brook anthropologist and study coauthor Frederick Grine, who presented Jungers’ paper at the meeting.

(Excerpt) Read more at sciencenews.org ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: dmanisi; flores; godsgravesglyphs; hobbits; homoerectus; homofloresiensis; multiregionalism; origin; origins

1 posted on 04/23/2010 11:21:31 AM PDT by decimon
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To: decimon

Via SunkenCiv.


2 posted on 04/23/2010 11:22:06 AM PDT by decimon
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To: SunkenCiv

Truncated history ping.


3 posted on 04/23/2010 11:22:40 AM PDT by decimon
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To: decimon
“is what’s left of a woman who suffered from a developmental disorder that resulted in an unusually small brain and a misshapen skull and lower body.”

Discussin Nancy Peeloosy again?

4 posted on 04/23/2010 11:29:07 AM PDT by bitterohiogunclinger (America held hostage - day 393)
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To: decimon
Critics say the finds represent nothing more than human pygmies like those still living on Flores. In their opinion, the centerpiece hobbit find — a partial skeleton of an adult female known as LB1 — is what’s left of a woman who suffered from a developmental disorder that resulted in an unusually small brain and a misshapen skull and lower body.

It seems unlikely that a person with such developmental disabilities would survive to adulthood in the stone age, or that enough of them survived that one was fossilized.

5 posted on 04/23/2010 11:37:44 AM PDT by Caesar Soze
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To: decimon
Why? Did one of them have only nine fingers?

Shalom.

6 posted on 04/23/2010 12:19:52 PM PDT by Buggman (HebrewRoot.com - Baruch haBa b'Shem ADONAI!)
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To: decimon

They really did exist!

7 posted on 04/23/2010 12:51:24 PM PDT by camerongood210
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To: decimon

This article was a little ‘SHORT’ on scientific details!


8 posted on 04/23/2010 2:42:04 PM PDT by STD (islam a spiritual-legal-political Theocratic system of governance which is not to be questioned;)
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To: decimon; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 240B; 24Karet; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks decimon.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

·Dogpile · Archaeologica · LiveScience · Archaeology · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Discover · Nat Geographic · Texas AM Anthro News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · Google ·
· The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


9 posted on 04/23/2010 4:11:16 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: decimon; SunkenCiv

Well, as long as it's for science, sure I'll donate 'em.

10 posted on 04/23/2010 4:21:18 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker

Makes me wonder about the “hobbit” family tree...


11 posted on 04/23/2010 4:48:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SunkenCiv
I didn't realize there were serious questions about the first find. They're going to need to find more specimens before we'll get a good feel for what this is all about, i.e. if we really have a new species here, IMHO. It's sure interesting, though.

The article says the ultimate origin is Africa, but I wonder if that's just an assumption on the author's part.

12 posted on 04/23/2010 5:02:20 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker

The first find was allegedly vandalized and withheld by someone who claimed they were nothing to write home about, and it took a year or two I think it was to get the stuff back. Meanwhile, the fossils were condemned as dwarfed and microcephalic but otherwise normal modern humans. It was a circus. It reminded me of Virchow’s foolish and escalating phony claims about the Neandertal fossils:

http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~bramblet/ant301/two.html

“Rudolph Virchow (1821-1902), professor of pathological anatomy at the University of Berlin and founder of the field of cellular pathology... believed that people of the Stone Age were identical in biology to modern humans and he attributed the different anatomy of the Neanderthal to a combination of severe rickets, repeated fractures, and severe arthritis. The Neanderthal specimen thus was relegated to controversy.”

His later version was to claim that the remains were those of a 18th century Cossack soldier who’d fled some defeat and hidden in that cave.


13 posted on 04/23/2010 6:32:27 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: colorado tanker; blam
This whole "Out Of Africa" thingy is wearing on my mind, whats left of it. I have been reading about this for 50 years, a couple of years less than Blam, and even with DNA it still makes no sense.

The argument is Bones and Genetic Diversity. If you remember the Eoehippus, Prohippus, Hippus argument A does not always equal B. The same goes with Genetic Diversity if MCDNA is more or less static where would it be more diverse at the tip of the spear or the shaft.

14 posted on 04/24/2010 5:02:52 PM PDT by Little Bill (Carol Che-Porter is a MOONBAT.)
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To: Little Bill
Hobbit Hand Waves Away Doubters

Mike Morewood, the archeaologist who did the original excavation on the Hobbits, says they look more like the guys in the article below:

Stranger In A New Land (Archaeology)

"Image: JOHN GURCHE PORTRAIT OF A PIONEER With a brain half the size of a modern one and a brow reminiscent of Homo habilis, this hominid is one of the most primitive members of our genus on record. Paleoartist John Gurche reconstructed this 1.75-million-year-old explorer from a nearly complete teenage H. erectus skull and associated mandible found in Dmanisi in the Republic of Georgia. The background figures derive from two partial crania recovered at the site.

15 posted on 04/24/2010 5:27:03 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
The thing that has always bothered me is that the remnants are at the fringes. Adman Islands, Hottentots, Bushmen, and Abos and Melanesians. It is like an expanding balloon.

The prime example is Africa, don't make no sense.

16 posted on 04/24/2010 5:52:31 PM PDT by Little Bill (Carol Che-Porter is a MOONBAT.)
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To: Little Bill
"The thing that has always bothered me is that the remnants are at the fringes. Adman Islands, Hottentots, Bushmen, and Abos and Melanesians. It is like an expanding balloon."

Yup.

The oldest DNA in the world is found in a Negrito tribe in Malaysia. I used to know the name of these people, their name starts out with two o's Oo....(something)

17 posted on 04/24/2010 6:23:55 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Look at Africa. It seems to me that there was migration to rather than from, I love demographics.


18 posted on 04/24/2010 6:33:49 PM PDT by Little Bill (Carol Che-Porter is a MOONBAT.)
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To: Little Bill
Humans Migrated Out Of Africa, Then Some Went Back, Study Says
19 posted on 04/24/2010 6:54:21 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
...but 30,000 years later some of them moved back.

Who were the some and who were not the some that didn't move back and what happened to them?.

Then we have the problem of the five genetic Isolates among modern people as posted lately.

20 posted on 04/24/2010 7:37:26 PM PDT by Little Bill (Carol Che-Porter is a MOONBAT.)
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To: Little Bill
Ancient DNA Suggests New Hominid Line

Genetic data unveil a shadowy, previously unknown Stone Age ancestor


21 posted on 04/25/2010 6:38:16 AM PDT by blam
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To: Little Bill; blam

Very interesting discussion, thanks.


22 posted on 04/25/2010 11:33:03 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Little Bill
Ah...here it is:

Oorang Asli

The name "Orang Asli" means "original people" or "first people". They all live on the Peninsular of Malaysia. Nowadays there about 60.000 Orang Asli people, of which 60% still live in the rain forest. About 40% Orang Asli live along or near the coast. Each has its own language and culture, and perceives itself as different from the others. Linguistically, some of the northern Orang Asli groups speak languages, that suggest a historical link with the indigenous peoples in Burma, Thailand and Indo-China. They are classified into three groups:
- Senoi
- Orang Malayu Asli
- Negrito

23 posted on 04/25/2010 1:02:53 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

They remind me of that supposed lost Tribe they found in the Philippines years ago. Never had contact with civilization, turns out that they were driven into the jungles by the present inhabitants centuries ago. I forget all of the details.


24 posted on 04/26/2010 4:49:46 PM PDT by Little Bill (Carol Che-Porter is a MOONBAT.)
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