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Joni Mitchell Sets Us Straight: Bob Dylan "A Plagiarist," Americans "Stupid and Shallow"
gather.com ^ | 042610 | Kevin Zimmerman

Posted on 04/26/2010 6:26:23 PM PDT by Artemis Webb

"What is the big deal about Bob Dylan?" Julia Schrenkler wondered on Gather.com three years ago. Well, according to fellow folkie Joni Mitchell, he's a plagiarizing fraud.

"Bob is not authentic at all," Mitchell tells the Los Angeles Times. "He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he and I."

True, Dylan's name is a "fake" -- he was born Robert ... um, Zimmerman -- but he'd have to be some kind of crazy to invent a voice like his current subterranean croak. Let's assume she's talking about his Woody Guthrie-isms of the '60s, just to be on the safe side.

But Mitchell (birth name: Roberta Joan Anderson, btw) doesn't restrict her remarks to male performers of her generation, letting us know that "Grace [Slick] and Janis Joplin were [sleeping with] their whole bands and falling down drunk."

Well, yes, but what of the Canadian-born Mitchell's own work? Time for a little self-examination, perhaps?

"My work is set against the stupid, destructive way we live on this planet," she announces. "Americans have decided to be stupid and shallow since 1980. Madonna is like Nero; she marks the turning point."

Ladies and gentlemen, Joni Mitchell: Special Ranting 2010 Edition. Approach her at your own risk...

(Excerpt) Read more at knittingcrochet.gather.com ...


TOPICS: Music/Entertainment
KEYWORDS: bobdylan; graceslick; janisjoplin; jonimitchell
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To: BenKenobi

“What about Chuck Berry?”

Catchy pop lyrics “coffee colored Cadillac”...but not the stuff of legends...Dylan was there.


41 posted on 04/26/2010 6:52:45 PM PDT by jessduntno ("If you want security, go to prison, you're fed, clothed, given medical. But...there's no freedom.")
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To: Artemis Webb

A Canadian version of a Dixie Chick wannabe.


42 posted on 04/26/2010 6:52:47 PM PDT by the_daug
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To: Artemis Webb

lol


43 posted on 04/26/2010 6:53:34 PM PDT by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
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To: wideawake

Neither Slick nor Joplin slept their way into recording contracts.

Janis sure didn’t...


44 posted on 04/26/2010 6:55:14 PM PDT by jessduntno ("If you want security, go to prison, you're fed, clothed, given medical. But...there's no freedom.")
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To: Artemis Webb
"Grace [Slick] and Janis Joplin were [sleeping with] their whole bands and falling down drunk."

Meow. Back in the day, Joni made her way through the entire folk-music scene, so she shouldn't throw stones. Why the need to trash poor dead Janis? And somehow for all her alcohol consumption Grace Slick is still attractive at 70. This comes off incredibly catty.

45 posted on 04/26/2010 6:55:55 PM PDT by denydenydeny (The welfare state turns us all into zoo animals, mouths open, waiting for the next feeding.)
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To: Bullish
Hey Joni, I never liked a single song you ever did, and for the life of me, I can’t remember a single one either.

Wide difference of opinions about her work on this thread. Personally, I loved Joni Mitchell's work, and still do. I consider her to be one of the signature artists of the 60's era.

Ever heard the song, "Woodstock" by Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young? Joni Mitchell wrote that.

46 posted on 04/26/2010 6:56:26 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier
aruanan wrote: "Joni Mitchell was once one of the finest rock musicians on the planet. She was an extraordinary songwriter and lyricist, and had a decent set of pipes. And she could play a guitar. Man, could Joni play."

Thanks for injecting a little reality into this Joni bashing thread...

47 posted on 04/26/2010 6:56:36 PM PDT by northwinds
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To: Artemis Webb

Bitter and bitchy is not attractive in young, beautiful women. It is particularly unattractive on this old biddy.


48 posted on 04/26/2010 6:56:40 PM PDT by bannie (Gone to seed.)
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To: Windflier

She’s had some hard times and health problems...

I can cut her slack for her bit on “The Last Waltz.”


49 posted on 04/26/2010 6:57:06 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Live jubtabulously!)
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To: Windflier
I mean, what is the point?

Bob Dylan soured on the "social justice" scam early, I mean REAL EARLY--like around 1965. That's what the lyrics to "My Back Pages" are all about. But his repudiation was indirect and the flower-children foolishly mistook him to be their prophet.

He explained some of this in his autobiography--which discloses him to be relatively conservative on many issues. I think that's what annoys fading fraying folk artists like Joni Mitchell, who take themselves far too d*mn seriously. He didn't leave them. He was never really with them.

50 posted on 04/26/2010 6:57:35 PM PDT by behzinlea
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To: Artemis Webb

Sheesh. Joni seems all Tangled Up In Blue.


51 posted on 04/26/2010 6:58:02 PM PDT by PGalt
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To: Windflier

To each his own. I always thought Joni’s music sucked, and if she would have recorded “Woodstock” it would have sucked to.


52 posted on 04/26/2010 6:58:07 PM PDT by Bullish (Light skinned with no negro dialect (unless I want one))
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To: Artemis Webb
Chuck Berry has some extremely bizarre sexual proclivities. So much so that they are unmentionable even in adult company.

Crap! I'm running out of heroes here!

53 posted on 04/26/2010 6:58:16 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Artemis Webb

Desperately groping for her 15 minutes which ended years ago.


54 posted on 04/26/2010 6:59:39 PM PDT by eclecticEel (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness: 7/4/1776 - 3/21/1980)
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To: Artemis Webb
I saw Joni Mitchell with Tom Scott in 1974. She had one riff, and now she's miffed.

Dylan was Zimmerman at Hibbing and our friend here recalls that "he would serenade us, on the piano, and it was not what you would think."

Dylan gave us a language which has variously been a machine gun or a lute, but never Joni Mitchell's "plagiarism" nor Joan Baez' "vagueness."

I don't call it anything, said Frankie Lee with a smile.

Joni, Joni, Joni--
I all alone beweep my outcast fate
and trouble deaf Heaven with my bootless cries
and look upon myself and curse my fate

Cue Frank Zappa:

"Do ya love it do ya hate it
There it is the way ya made it"

55 posted on 04/26/2010 6:59:43 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hussein: Islamo-Commie from Kenya)
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To: Artemis Webb

ROFL!


56 posted on 04/26/2010 7:00:37 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: northwinds

Even given your “was” and “could”...she’s still really bitter and bitchy now.


57 posted on 04/26/2010 7:01:30 PM PDT by bannie (Gone to seed.)
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To: Artemis Webb

I’m going to say something very important about music. Learn it, live it, love it.

All music (notice I said the word “all” here) is derivative.

There are only so many notes and so many chords.

Everybody has been influenced (read: has ripped off) everyone else.

People discover Led Zeppelin used a lyrical hook or a riff that someone else used before them and they think they’ve discovered a rent in the space-time continuum.

Get over it people. It’s only music. Enjoy it. Or not. But get over it.


58 posted on 04/26/2010 7:01:46 PM PDT by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: northwinds
Thanks for injecting a little reality into this Joni bashing thread...

In her prime Joni Mitchell was quite talented as an instrumentalist and songwriter, and had a serviceable voice as well.

However, when she calls Bob Dylan a fake and Slick and Joplin whores - well, it makes people focus on the fact that she began her career by emulating Dylan and by famously sleeping with every folk rocker in Laurel Canyon.

She invited that kind of analysis with her comments.

It still won't interfere with the pleasure a Mitchell fan can derive from weeping as he listens to Blue for the 1,000th time.

59 posted on 04/26/2010 7:03:29 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who like to be called Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: northwinds
Thanks for injecting a little reality into this Joni bashing thread...

Well, you know the old saw; "If you remember the 60's, you weren't there."

I think a lot of the folks commenting either were genuinely never turned on by Joni's work, or they really did live through the 60's, and have totally forgotten what a force she was in the music of the era.

She was an awesome songwriter, and musical talent. She was also very understated in her political beliefs at the time, preferring to put her thoughts into her lyrics.

She never came across as an angry radical leftist, like some musicians of the day.

60 posted on 04/26/2010 7:07:01 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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