Posted on 05/11/2010 11:04:04 AM PDT by newgeezer
At the ripe age of 28, Jon Zimmer is sort of an old fogey. That is, he is obsessive about the sound quality of his music. ... But iPods and compressed computer files ... are “sucking the life out of music,” he says.
The last decade has brought an explosion in dazzling technological advances ... that have transformed the fan’s experience. There are improvements in the quality of media everywhere — except in music.
In many ways, the quality of what people hear — how well the playback reflects the original sound— has taken a step back. ...
In one way, the music business has been the victim of its own technological success: the ease of loading songs onto a computer or an iPod has meant that a generation of fans has happily traded fidelity for portability and convenience. This is the obstacle the industry faces in any effort to create higher-quality — and more expensive — ways of listening.
“If people are interested in getting a better sound, there are many ways to do it,” Mr. Zimmer said. “But many people don’t even know that they might be interested.”
Take Thomas Pinales, a 22-year-old from Spanish Harlem and a fan of some of today’s most popular artists... Mr. Pinales listens to his music stored on his Apple iPod through a pair of earbuds, and while he wouldn’t mind upgrading, he is not convinced that it would be worth the cost.
“My ears aren’t fine tuned,” he said. “I don’t know if I could really tell the difference.”
The change in sound quality is as much cultural as technological. For decades, starting around the 1950s, high-end stereos were a status symbol. A high-quality system was something to show off, much like a new flat-screen TV today. ...
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
I was more than happy to move from vinyl to CDs but, as the kid said, digital compression sucks the life out of music.
And that's why so-called "HD Radio™" is a crock. Aside from the absence of background hiss, there's nothing "HD" about it. Thanks to lossy digital compression, everything on HD Radio—and satellite radio and typical MP3s—has an unmistakable, "underwater" sound.
I guess MP3s and iPods have taken the place of the 8-track tapes of the '70s. Those sounded awful, compared to vinyl albums (on good equipment). But, 8-tracks were portable and people who didn't really listen to music didn't care as much about sound quality. So, maybe "the quality of what people hear" hasn't really "taken a step back" after all. Instead, it's stayed pretty much the same. Most folks just want to hear the songs, while the audiophiles want high fidelity.
That's a sentence that couldn't possibly be any more wrong.
Would more bits be much of an improvement in listening to artists like that?
MP3’s work o.k. in the truck or on the boat, where the background noise would drown out the silence. I had a friend stop by yesterday and blew him away with the sound off a 10 and 1/2 inch reel-to-reel playing through a 224 dbx unit.
MP3 files sound like Phil Spector’s wall of sound. Midrange with lots of compression.
I recently replaced my 12 y.o. Bose Wave Radio with a new one. I was amazed by the sound quality. I could hear tiny details that I never heard before on the old Bose. It’s unreal how “real” it sounds.
Not giving up my three turntables or reel2reels (21 at last count) ;) Analog rules digital well it has a place in my system but so does cassette and I refuse to surrender my Akai CR 81D eight track recorder. Love listening to LPs...MFSL/UHQR, Sheffield, M&K Realtime, etc.,
OK, I’m going to unpack my JVC turntable when I get home.
What do you have an 8 track RtoR for? Did you have a recording studio?
I have Bose headphones for my iPod... they are very nice for what they are.
I have been thinking about upgrading my Airstream trailer with a Bose stereo and 4 speakers. I am near deaf in my right ear and my left is fading. Do you really think there would be enough improvement to make it worth the $$$, Bose is certainly proud of it’s products. ;>)
I would definitely suggest you go with the Bose. It’s like hearing all kinds of little things that you previously could only hear with headphones, it’s like having “virtual” headphones. Wonderful little tiny sounds you’ve been missing.
I too have some hearing loss (retired R&R musician) and I am finally enjoying listening to music again.
Good luck!
Thats nice. of course just the use of a turntable isnt a given that you getting optimal sound reproduction that will best an excellent CD based system. Every part in chain contributes to the final audible output. And everybody has different tastes and discernment as to what they prefer.
My AMT-1A’s have been kickin’ a** for almost 40 years now. Freegards!
Too many years in the artillery. It would take a heck of a sound system for me to hear the difference between MP3s and real music.
In any case MP3s are more portable, and I’m mostly listening to books on CD, anyways.
Thanks for your input. I lost me hearing on the gun range, riding Harley’s and....... Rock & Roll. :>)
I’ll start shopping.
No you misunderstood. That Akai is a 8-track cartridge recorder. One of the most desirable models in fact they still sell for good price on ebay. Only the quad surround sound model is more popular in the Akai range of eight tracks. Quad 8track tapes whata concept. I never bought into quadraphonic sound myself tho...plain ol stereo works for me.
Go to the Bose website. They’re wonderful to deal with.
And you’re very welcome.
I’m already there... LOL
Cool. Let me know how you like it.
~</:o)
Any Maggie (Magnepan) owners on the thread? I recently added to my main system and must say these speakers are amazingly fast and detailed. Almost anything I listen to, familiar favorites I find the maggie reveal details I never noticed before. Vocals just stand out in the mix like they were meant to be heard. I heard there is also a method of modifying these speakers to make them even better though I like them as they are.
I’m a musician with a pretty fair ear.
I don’t get involved much in the argument, though, because I care more about the quality of the performance as opposed to its audio fidelity.
Ahhhh....the days of Wow and Flutter. Long gone they are. Yet, I still have...and use...my Yamaha YP-211 turntable hooked up to my Yamaha CA-610 amp.
But now the digital technology is advancing to a point where we can pack way more onto hard drives etc. So at the high end, won’t the technology likely devolve into extremely high fidelity digital products sold at a premium while most of the regular folks get by on the more bland digital versions now available? After all, if you could hypothetically pack 100,000 hours of listening into an Ipod, this would vastly exceed the amount of use the device could possibly get even without repeating a single song. At that juncture, wouldn’t it make more sense to make the digital songs much higher fidelity to pack in, say “only” 10,000 songs?
We’ve seen TV gradually morph from analog to digital, resulting in great improvements in fidelity/picture quality, albeit at a higher price. Given advances in computer memory, it seems inevitable that music will go the same direction, even if it hasn’t gotten there yet. I’m no techie, so this is obviously speculative. But I’m asking you, honestly, assuming the technology would permit far larger file sizes, is it really impossible to imagine digital versions of music that would be superior to analog versions delivered even on the best equipment?
I’ll try. So many to choose from!
I don’t want to lose the use of my iPod and the thousands of tunes I have saved on it, so while I want their radio, I am leaning toward the iPod dock. I’m thinking that I could use it in a variety of environments, including my boat.
I wish there was an Bose store near me so that I could trying them all on. LOL
This isn’t R&R, but I found it while screwing around on the net... I find it fun to watch. It’s where the old sexy meets the new sexy, in a fun sort of way...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hYGp5VdYbE
Thanks! That was awesome. I love that genre. Very nice. And the great big red lips can really take you back a few decades.
PS: My new Bose will run an iPod and an MP3, besides cds.
What model is it?
Just so you’ll know, you’re taking the heat with my wife over this expenditure.
She will be hearing me say.... “But honey, this was highly recommended by a hearing impaired retired R&R musician. Also dear, you know how music changes my mood and this guy told me that I would feel 19 again. So when you really think about it, my love, you will see that I actually bought this for you. Yes dear, it’s all for you.” LOL
I got the boat, truck, Airstream, several guns and Harley this way... it’s worked for over 38 years, it might work again. LOL
Of course that still wont satisfy the purists, but it would be MUCH better than what is standard now.
I have NO USE for the compressed formats.
Even at my age I like hearing the ORIGINAL 16track tape hiss on the Black Sabbath CDs :)
I’ve NEVER been able to identify the “underwater” quality you speak of. 8-tracks were sort of popular, but not really. They were kind of good for cars where the road noise prevented high fidelity playback anyway. And, it was almost impossible to keep a vinyl LP from getting scratched and/or wearing with time and repeated playings, so except for the first few times of listening, LPs NEVER sounded all that great.
Well, there’s two kinds of being proud:
Being proud of products that ain’t worth a flip, that’s false pride.
And bein proud of products that really are remarkable. I think Bose products are remarkable, and I don’t know of any other company that does the kinds of things they do with sound.
That’s kind of funny, isn’t it.
Stereo porn?
Listen here ...erm...yeah. ;D
I remember those days. Back in the early 1980s, I spent nearly $1,000 on a Kenwood system and that was a lot of money back in those days. At the time, I had nearly 600 vinyl LPs and dozens of reel-to-reel tapes that I taped off the radio (so sue me!). Also, I got most of my vinyl records from flea markets for dirt cheap. I remember one mother was selling her son's collection because he moved out of the house. Vintage Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Doors, Led Zeppelin, etc., she must have had no idea of the value of those as she let me fill a milkbox crate of them for just $10.
At the time, there was really no other way to play your music collection than to place a vinyl LP on the turntable and play out side 1 or side 2. Sure, you could move the stylus over to another track but then you risked damaging the record or the stylus needle so you just let the thing play out.
What I really miss about the albums is discovering all those "deep" album tracks that grow on you over time and you end up liking them even better than the hit singles you bought the record for in the first place.
These days, you can just pluck the singles off iTunes and you never get to hear the rest of the album. Just think of how many good songs go undiscovered as a result.
If only they didn't charge so much for the whole album, I'd buy the whole album much more often.
I understand and agree. I only use that word in relation to their expense. I have 2 small Bose speakers for my computer and I am quite pleased with them. I think I will taking my wife on a 3 hour drive to a Bose store and we can listen to each of the packages....
Not sure what you mean when you say that. If you mean you can't tell (or, just aren't the least bit bothered by) the difference between a CD and a common MP3 file, congratulations! :-)
Or, if you mean you don't know what I meant by "underwater," it's something which is most evident at the highest frequencies. Cymbals that sound crisp and clear on a CD ("tss, tss") sound muddy or "underwater" when ripped to a 192 kbps MP3 ("shwish, shwish"). I don't mind it too much for background music but, if I'm going to sit down for the purpose of listening to something, I just can't stand it.
LPs NEVER sounded all that great.
They certainly did on my system. Of course, not all LPs were alike, either. Sheffield Labs' were quite a bit better than K-Tel's. :-)
“I like hearing the ORIGINAL 16track tape hiss on the Black Sabbath CDs”
Yup! Sabbath is tremendous, those first six albums are hard to beat!
I think a big part is how people listen to music today. For most folks it’s mostly while doing something else—driving, jogging, reading, and on crappy speakers or ear buds. And doing it a song at a time from different artists. So the cats mastering the music keep that in mind, and make the mix as loud and in your face as possible, in order to ensure that their tune has just as much chance of getting noticed as everyone elses. A mix like that is going to sound awful on a decent home hi-fi, whether its on vinyl, cd or some form of electronic media, but with ear buds you might not notice it.
The cats who like to listen to loud music on their home hi-fi system are few and far between. I love kicking the rock. There are lotsa new and old artists whose mixes still sound awesome, and I think more and more are recognizing the problem and rebelling against it.
Freegards, rock on
I was wondering how long until the “Mc” word showed up.
I’ll never forget hearing some classical guitar stuff, don’t remember who the artist was, through a system of Revox reel, McIntosh preamp/amp, Soundcraftsmen EQ and Klipsch speakers back in the 70s. It gave me chills. ‘Course, the room was tweaked for sound like that.
WOW, just WOW!
Same model here. I've rebuilt them once with new surrounds
on the woofer and passive radiator and new diaphragms. One
of he best speakers ever made.
I’ll start shopping.
I'm hearing impaired for almost exactly the same reasons. I have a Yamaha graphic equalizer on my system and have the
sound tailored to the high end audio loss that I have. It
would probably sound too “bright” to most people.
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