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President Eisenhower Defends A "Traitor?"
Old Virginia Blog ^ | 05/11/2010 | Richard Williams

Posted on 05/12/2010 11:50:16 AM PDT by Davy Buck

"General Robert E. Lee was, in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our Nation. He believed unswervingly in the Constitutional validity of his cause which until 1865 was still an arguable question in America. . ."

(Excerpt) Read more at oldvirginiablog.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Education; History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: confederacy; dixie; eisenhower; military; patriotism
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1 posted on 05/12/2010 11:50:16 AM PDT by Davy Buck
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To: Davy Buck

“He was a foe without hate; a friend without treachery; a soldier without cruelty; a victor without oppression, and a victim without murmuring. He was a public officer without vices; a private citizen without wrong; a neighbour without reproach; a Christian without hypocrisy, and a man without guile. He was a Caesar, without his ambition; Frederick, without his tyranny; Napoleon, without his selfishness, and Washington, without his reward.”


2 posted on 05/12/2010 11:52:17 AM PDT by Eyes Unclouded ("The word bipartisan means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out." -George Carlin)
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To: Davy Buck

Robert E. Lee was a great man and should serve as example for all of us. Some will agree with this statement while others will disagree. That’s okay. It’s That’s way with humans. I admire Lee tremendously, have read most all that has been written by him and about him. And nothing can deter me from the belief that he lived an exemplary life.


3 posted on 05/12/2010 11:54:14 AM PDT by carton253 (Ask me about Throw Away the Scabbard - a Civil War alternate history.)
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To: carton253

Which is exactly the point Ike was making.


4 posted on 05/12/2010 11:55:01 AM PDT by Davy Buck
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To: Davy Buck

Geez. I am a Yankee (even though born in VA)and I respect and admire the memory of General Lee. By all accounts, he was all that he was made out to be, and more.

Eisenhower was a military man...I would fully understand that he, even being a Pennsylvanian, would admire and respect the man.

Traitor? No, just doing what he thought was right.

What irritated me more was seeing him played in “Gettysburg” by a Leftist dumbass like Martin Sheen.

THAT bothered me.


5 posted on 05/12/2010 11:55:40 AM PDT by rlmorel (We are traveling "The Road to Serfdom".)
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To: Davy Buck
It's still an arguable question. Proof: people are still arguing over it. Constitutional questions should be settled by reasoned arguments, not by sheer force.
6 posted on 05/12/2010 11:55:43 AM PDT by JoeFromSidney ( My new book, RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY, now available from Amazon.)
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To: Davy Buck

I know... I’ve read it before. :) Thank’s for posting it.


7 posted on 05/12/2010 11:57:31 AM PDT by carton253 (Ask me about Throw Away the Scabbard - a Civil War alternate history.)
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To: Davy Buck
Great Southerners, Great Americans???

and they have a picture of Woodrow Wilson.

well that's it for me....I'm outta here.

8 posted on 05/12/2010 11:57:45 AM PDT by Vaquero (BHO....'The Pretenda from Kenya')
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To: Davy Buck

The man helped to lead an armed revolution against the United States of America. Whatever his other qualities, I find that hard to respect. And yes I am a Southerner.


9 posted on 05/12/2010 11:58:22 AM PDT by DemonDeac
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To: rlmorel

What bothered me was Martin Sheen was too small to be Lee and didn’t have a commanding presence on screen. Too small, too small...


10 posted on 05/12/2010 11:58:33 AM PDT by carton253 (Ask me about Throw Away the Scabbard - a Civil War alternate history.)
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To: Davy Buck

As a military man, Dwight Eisenhower respected the abilities of other military men. He was a great admirer of both Lee and Grant.


11 posted on 05/12/2010 12:00:49 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: DemonDeac

Well, George Washington helped lead an armed rebellion against George III. How do you feel about Washington?


12 posted on 05/12/2010 12:02:45 PM PDT by Oberon (Big Brutha Be Watchin'.)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Personally, I too think there is much to be admired about Grant and Lee. BTW, how the heck are you?


13 posted on 05/12/2010 12:02:58 PM PDT by carton253 (Ask me about Throw Away the Scabbard - a Civil War alternate history.)
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To: DemonDeac

An alternate view is that he led a crusade to rescue America from an overbearing Federal Government that had trampled states rights... and I’m a Yankee (literally).


14 posted on 05/12/2010 12:05:01 PM PDT by pgyanke (You have no "rights" that require an involuntary burden on another person. Period. - MrB)
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To: carton253

Hanging in there, thanks. Yourself?


15 posted on 05/12/2010 12:06:06 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Vaquero

Yeah, Wilson doesn’t fit. I think the point was showing Lee as not just a “great Southerner”, but also a “great American.”


16 posted on 05/12/2010 12:06:22 PM PDT by Davy Buck
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To: DemonDeac

Actually, no. The South attempted to leave peacefully. They only defended their homes after they were invaded and attacked.


17 posted on 05/12/2010 12:07:41 PM PDT by Davy Buck
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To: pgyanke

So you agree with the contention that losing at the ballot box is justification for armed rebellion?


18 posted on 05/12/2010 12:07:49 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (The problem with Socialism is eventually you run our of other peoples money. Lady Thatcher)
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To: Davy Buck

So you agree with the contention that losing at the ballot box is justification for armed rebellion?


19 posted on 05/12/2010 12:08:23 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (The problem with Socialism is eventually you run our of other peoples money. Lady Thatcher)
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To: Davy Buck

Ike’s image as avuncular and laid back is one that is refuted by his letters.

In many ways he was a conceited self promoter.

Never went to church before he got into the WH.

Appointed Earl Warren.

Polish Resettlement Act 1947 - wasn’t he also part of the betrayal of Poles who were sent back to the gulags?

At every chance, Eisenhower frustrated Patton from victory, Patton was victorious anyway.


20 posted on 05/12/2010 12:08:26 PM PDT by eleni121 (For Jesus did not give us a timid spirit , but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline)
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To: Vaquero
Wilson was born in Staunton, Virginia, in 1856. His parents identified with the Confederacy. His father served for a time as a chaplain in the CSA.

21 posted on 05/12/2010 12:09:01 PM PDT by Genoa (Luke 12:2)
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To: carton253

Agreed...IT DIDN’T WORK!!!!

I often think, I would LOVE to see a great movie done about George Washington. I think he is one of the most amazing men who ever lived, and you couldn’t get a pipsqueak to play THAT part. (I always thought Liam Neeson would be perfect to play that part, he is a big guy, has the same kind of bone structure in his face and those piercing gray-blue eyes, same as Washington. There was a pretty decent movie a few years back where Washington was played by Jeff Daniels in “The Crossing”, and I have to say...I thought he did a fine job.

But NO MATTER how hard I tried to see him as General George Washington, I kept seeing Jim Carrey beside him. I just couldn’t do it...

Washington was amazing. While it is true that he never threw a silver dollar across the Potomac, he DID throw a stone over the Natural Bridge in VA, which is something like 215 feet to the bottom of the arch (I think) which is pretty impressive!


22 posted on 05/12/2010 12:09:02 PM PDT by rlmorel (We are traveling "The Road to Serfdom".)
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To: rlmorel; carton253
"What irritated me more was seeing him played in “Gettysburg” by a Leftist dumbass like Martin Sheen."

You have to see "Gods and Generals." Robert Duvall took the role over from Sheen, and has the kind of presence you would expect from Lee. Duvall is in fact, a distant descendant of Lee.

As a bit of trivia, Les Kinsolving played General Barksdale in the movie, a distant ancestor of his.

23 posted on 05/12/2010 12:10:49 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Davy Buck

Lee is not at all comparable to the Confederate leaders. Robert E. Lee was always opposed to slavery and freed his slaves long before the war. He was strongly opposed to secession, pointing out that the Confederate movement was an attempted revolution against the Revolution of 1776. He only agreed to fight for Virginia after she seceded. He was constantly at odds with the slavemaster Confederate leaders during the war and was never allowed to command more than his own Army of Northern Virginia until the final weeks of the war.


24 posted on 05/12/2010 12:12:29 PM PDT by iowamark
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To: Davy Buck

Actually, no. The South attempted to leave belligerantly. They fired first and got more than they bargained for.


25 posted on 05/12/2010 12:12:34 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: MNJohnnie
Virginia did not seceede until after Lincoln called for volunteers.

Some Virginians stayed with the Union army -- George Thomas and Philip Cooke to name two. Most felt that their duty was to protect their homes and family.

For me, there is honor on both sides... anguished decisions on both sides... men of valor on both sides... men of integrity on both sides...

What intriques me the most about the war are the quality of these men...on both sides.

26 posted on 05/12/2010 12:12:39 PM PDT by carton253 (Ask me about Throw Away the Scabbard - a Civil War alternate history.)
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To: MNJohnnie
So you agree with the contention that losing at the ballot box is justification for armed rebellion?

No... I think we can all agree that you would benefit from a better education on the subject.

27 posted on 05/12/2010 12:12:39 PM PDT by pgyanke (You have no "rights" that require an involuntary burden on another person. Period. - MrB)
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To: carton253

Grant is another amazing guy. A complete, total failure living in threadbare clothes on skid row one day, then within a pretty short time, commanding an army.

He was an impressive guy, and knew how to lead. I think having lived on the margins for a while as a failure, he didn’t care much for the trappings of power. He was, by all accounts, a pretty unassuming guy.


28 posted on 05/12/2010 12:12:51 PM PDT by rlmorel (We are traveling "The Road to Serfdom".)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Doing fine.


29 posted on 05/12/2010 12:12:55 PM PDT by carton253 (Ask me about Throw Away the Scabbard - a Civil War alternate history.)
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To: Davy Buck
The civil war as not just about slavery it was about the states rights and whether or not the federal government had the right to tell them what to do

Slavery was dying out in the civilized world at that time anyway

I am NOT arguing in favor of slavery- you knee-jerkers just relax.

I am saying remove slavery from the equation and NOW ask yourself- Does the federal government have to ability to tell states what they can do?

If, instead of slavery, the south was fighting to prevent the federal government from forcing them to ..oh, I dunno..buy health insurance, for example.

Now whose side are you on? All the states at the time agreed to join the US union with the expectation they could withdraw if they disliked what the federal govt was doing

30 posted on 05/12/2010 12:13:33 PM PDT by Mr. K (This administration IS WEARING OUT MY CAPSLOCK KEY!)
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To: rlmorel

Yeah, the more I read about Grant, the more I like him.


31 posted on 05/12/2010 12:14:25 PM PDT by carton253 (Ask me about Throw Away the Scabbard - a Civil War alternate history.)
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To: Genoa

Wilson was a proto socialist piece of crap...he set the stage for Marxist FDR.


32 posted on 05/12/2010 12:15:00 PM PDT by Vaquero (BHO....'The Pretenda from Kenya')
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To: Davy Buck

This sounds like communist garbage/liberalism. Not even going to waste one more second with this.


33 posted on 05/12/2010 12:15:08 PM PDT by Sprite518
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To: Joe 6-pack

Seen it!

Robert Duvall is one of my all time favorites! One of my FAVORITE movies is “Open Range”, where he raises a shot glass up and toasts a saloon of hostile people with the salutation:

“Good Health to them who has it comin’.”

Heh, my good friend veeram has modified that toast to refer to various liberals, terrorists and other enemies of the US: “A Good Beatin’ to them who has it comin’.”

A true American is Robert Duvall...


34 posted on 05/12/2010 12:16:34 PM PDT by rlmorel (We are traveling "The Road to Serfdom".)
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To: Vaquero
But a distinguished son of the Old Dominion, sir.

35 posted on 05/12/2010 12:18:46 PM PDT by Genoa (Luke 12:2)
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To: All

Funny...tempers STILL run hot over the Civil War.

As someone who was born in VA, raised around the world as a military brat, and came of age as a Yankee, I never thought much about the Civil War past the historical dates, battles and so on.

When I went in the US Navy, for the first time in my life I was called “Damn Yankee”!

That just FLOORED me! I had no idea.

Let’s keep it civil here folks, so we don’t have a war...:)


36 posted on 05/12/2010 12:20:08 PM PDT by rlmorel (We are traveling "The Road to Serfdom".)
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To: rlmorel
"There was a pretty decent movie a few years back where Washington was played by Jeff Daniels in “The Crossing”, and I have to say...I thought he did a fine job...But NO MATTER how hard I tried to see him as General George Washington, I kept seeing Jim Carrey beside him."

Daniels made a great Joshua Chamberlain in Gettysburg and Gods and Generals, but I agree...there was something slightly lacking in his Washington.

37 posted on 05/12/2010 12:22:03 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: rlmorel

The civility boat on Civil War threads sailed a long time ago...


38 posted on 05/12/2010 12:23:41 PM PDT by carton253 (Ask me about Throw Away the Scabbard - a Civil War alternate history.)
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To: carton253

Me too. I always had an impression of him as a somewhat insensitive, uncaring, bloodthirsty commander who didn’t give a rat’s ass about the men he was sending across a field, and an incompetent politician who could barely get out of his own way.

I read several books about him, as well as his memoirs, and I came out with a very different impression of the man.

In truth, by all accounts he kept his suffering over the fate of his troops to himself as what he saw as a necessary role of leadership, and his failings as a politician were not that he was corrupt and a dimwit, but that he was entirely too trusting of those around him.


39 posted on 05/12/2010 12:24:24 PM PDT by rlmorel (We are traveling "The Road to Serfdom".)
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To: rockrr; Davy Buck
Debates about the War of Northern Aggression are fun, fun, fun! These next five years are going to be swell! Some good escapist activity while the present government dismantles the Union.

40 posted on 05/12/2010 12:24:25 PM PDT by Genoa (Luke 12:2)
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To: iowamark
Robert E. Lee was always opposed to slavery and freed his slaves long before the war.

Lee had no real problems with slavery and didn't free his slaves until December 1862. Let's not make the man out to be something he isn't; he's a human, not a deity. Lee was faced with a difficult decision. Lee took the only course he felt his honor allowed him. While I may not agree with it, and while by a strict interpretation of the Constitution his actions may have constituted treason, I am certainly not going to condemn him for it. The average man, upon reaching the crossroads in life, often does not take the right path if he feels it's too hard. Lee took that path regardless of the consequences because he felt it was the only thing his integrity allowed. I respect him for that, and recognize that he paid a tremendous price for his decision.

41 posted on 05/12/2010 12:26:07 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: pgyanke
No... I think we can all agree that you would benefit from a better education on the subject.

Actually you should of limited your answer to the question rather then engage in such a transparently childish attempt at topic diversion.

Your response not only proved you don't really believe your "Crusade" argument but also indicated you pretensions to intellectual credibility on this topic are a grotesque fraud.

By saying NO you then agree that Secession was an illegitimate response to the results of the 1860 elections.

BTW, I have a BA in History. So from the point of view of Education, I have a much better grasp of the facts on this topic then you.

42 posted on 05/12/2010 12:26:19 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (The problem with Socialism is eventually you run our of other peoples money. Lady Thatcher)
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To: Genoa
I think I might ask for a Confederate Caucus where no controversy is allowed!

43 posted on 05/12/2010 12:27:03 PM PDT by Genoa (Luke 12:2)
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To: carton253
Agreed.

Grant one said that No worse cause in history was ever served by better men.

44 posted on 05/12/2010 12:27:53 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (The problem with Socialism is eventually you run our of other peoples money. Lady Thatcher)
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To: Joe 6-pack

Robert Duvall - amazing as the old man in a cameo in The Road based in the Cormc McCarthy novel.

His best performance ever?


45 posted on 05/12/2010 12:28:47 PM PDT by eleni121 (For Jesus did not give us a timid spirit , but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline)
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To: MNJohnnie
A BA in History?? Write when you find work!

46 posted on 05/12/2010 12:28:48 PM PDT by Genoa (Luke 12:2)
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To: carton253

LOL...I think we need to post the picture of the Civilty War FAIL BOAT (The one lying over on its side...)

I generally don’t get involved with Civil War threads for just that reason, but I have always felt that Lee made a tough choice, a very tough choice, and he lived the rest of his life facing it.

As someone who has been lucky enough in life never to have had to make a decision like that one, I respect those who do. I think he made the harder choice, one that he probably knew was not going to go well in the end, but by gosh, he made it. Could I make that decision? I guess I will only know if it comes up. I would like to say I could, but...how does one ever know?


47 posted on 05/12/2010 12:29:36 PM PDT by rlmorel (We are traveling "The Road to Serfdom".)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Interesting...I wrote my post at #47 before I saw yours.

I agree. He WAS a human.


48 posted on 05/12/2010 12:31:17 PM PDT by rlmorel (We are traveling "The Road to Serfdom".)
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To: Genoa

HAAAA Damn now that is funny!

Yes, I do not work in the field being far too over on the right politically to be tolerated by the Historian’s guild


49 posted on 05/12/2010 12:34:41 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (The problem with Socialism is eventually you run our of other peoples money. Lady Thatcher)
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To: Joe 6-pack

I LOVED him as Josha Chamberlain. What a great man, too. (Chamberlain)

I think Washington had to have someone playing it with a HUGE amount of stature and...should I say it (because I HATE the word)...gravitas.

I kept wanting to giggle every time I saw his face, but I give him points for doing a yeoman job.


50 posted on 05/12/2010 12:37:56 PM PDT by rlmorel (We are traveling "The Road to Serfdom".)
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