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Vanity -- Firearm Advice

Posted on 06/07/2010 6:24:12 PM PDT by Labyrinthos

I am in the process of shopping for my first concealed carry pistol. I have narrowed the field to the Glock 19 (4.02" barrel), Glock 26 (3.46" barrel), Baretta PX Storm (either 4" or 3" barrel), and Springfield XD (either 4.08" or 3.10" barrel) -- all 9mm/10+1.

My concern is that the sub-compacts feel uncomfortably small in my large hands. I have also been told that I should become proficient with a pistol with a 4" barrel, which has a longer line of sight, before moving to a sub-compact. On the other hand, I am concerned that the pistols with the 4" barrels will not conceal well, particularly the Baretta and Springfield, which have an overall length that is about a half inch longer than the Glock.

Another concern is the safety system on the Glock, which from what I have read, seems more prone to accidental discharge.

In addition, what kind of factory sights should I get? Several people have told me to stick with fixed sights for a CCW, night sights if available, because adjustible sights tend to get knocked out of line when the pistol is carried every day.

Lastly, the reason I am going with the 9mm is because I really like to shoot a lot at the range, and 9mm is significantly more affordable than .40 S & W and .45 ACP, particularly when I already have two .357's to feed. Given how much I like to shoot, the pistol I buy will need to be a workhorse with a proven record for durability and reliability.

Thanks in advance for all the wonderful advice that you will give me.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Hobbies; Sports
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1 posted on 06/07/2010 6:24:12 PM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: Labyrinthos

Hmmmm......curious if you will get any opinions?


2 posted on 06/07/2010 6:28:23 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Anti-Gunners suffer from Factose Intolerance)
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To: Labyrinthos

Buy one of each and a couple of cases of ammo and some reloading gear.


3 posted on 06/07/2010 6:31:09 PM PDT by arthurus ("If you don't believe in shooting abortionists, don't shoot an abortionist." -Ann C.)
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To: Labyrinthos

something in a 1911 platform and forget the rest...


4 posted on 06/07/2010 6:34:20 PM PDT by waterhill (Screw You, We're From TEXAS. We're From TEXAS, Screw You...)
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To: Labyrinthos

I have a Springfield XD .45, so I would say the Springfield.


5 posted on 06/07/2010 6:34:43 PM PDT by Sybeck1 (Pander to me for a change!!)
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To: Labyrinthos

Are you male or female?

How do you intend to carry the pistol?

Larger guns can be carried concealed, they just take more wardrobe planning.

There are lots of options for carrying on your person or in an accessory of some sort (purse, bag, “planner,” laptop case, etc.).

The Glock and the XD are both good choices. The Glocks are subject to NDs more often because many law enforcement agencies use them, and they get handled more often, so the chance of something bad happening increases. Plus, it seems that cops are more prone to the old “finger on the trigger” routine (Rule 2 violations).

Whatever you get, make sure it fits you and you can comfortably operate the pistol; loading, firing, unloading.


6 posted on 06/07/2010 6:35:03 PM PDT by Disambiguator (Progressivism, Socialism, Marxism, Communism - it's all shades of black.)
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To: Labyrinthos

“I have also been told that I should become proficient with a pistol with a 4” barrel, which has a longer line of sight, before moving to a sub-compact. “

I’ll bet it was a gun dealer who told you that.


7 posted on 06/07/2010 6:35:05 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: Labyrinthos

Quit listening to rumors an go shoot the glock an the XD......pick one . Both are good choices....

YOU have to be able to shoot it an have confidnence in it.....not your friends or a gun counter salesmans choice......yours !


8 posted on 06/07/2010 6:35:30 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Labyrinthos

I have the full-size Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm. It’s a great gun, and it has the best feeling grip/handle of any handgun I’ve shot. Personally the largest palm strap fits my hand, but I keep the medium on because it fits most shooters, and I like to share! Part of the reason I bought this gun is because of the manual safety. I shoot with a lot of people who are new to guns and I wanted a gun that had a visual safety in order to teach them to think about the sequence of firing a handgun.

I’m not sure I’d consider it as a concealed carry because of its size, but I do know I’ll buy its little brother when I’m ready for a new handgun. Fit, finish, and function are all exceptional with the one I own. But, if you’re going to shoot your gun a lot, maybe comfort is more important than size...

That being said, I’ve heard nothing but good things about the Springfield XD series. My friend has one and it’s a good gun.


9 posted on 06/07/2010 6:36:30 PM PDT by Dexter Morgan (Everyone hides who they are.)
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To: Labyrinthos

Since you go to the range a lot, you should try each of your choices out. All the ranges around here, have a wide selection you can rent.


10 posted on 06/07/2010 6:36:39 PM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: Labyrinthos

The 4” XD is too large.


11 posted on 06/07/2010 6:37:47 PM PDT by bmwcyle (NJ Governor Chris Christie for President)
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To: Labyrinthos

Your range of choices make it clear your over-riding concern should be how it fits in your hand, and points.

Seriously. Your every choice is top shelf.


12 posted on 06/07/2010 6:37:48 PM PDT by papertyger
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To: Labyrinthos

If you are not familiar with handguns in general, don’t count out the possibility of a revolver. A Ruger LCR or Smith or Charter snubnose .38 is relatively safe and reliable. 5 shots is enough for any problem you are ever likely to encounter, and it always goes bang. If you are set on a 9mm, just get one that everyone says is reliable and indestructible and practice with it, learn the controls. It doesn’t have to be a full-sized pistol. A double-action 9mm is somewhat safer to carry if you’re not comfortable with a cocked-and-locked pistol in your waistband. I’ll leave it to the numerous gun pundits to opine on what brand you should buy.


13 posted on 06/07/2010 6:39:42 PM PDT by Sender (It's never too late to be who you could have been.)
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To: Labyrinthos
I want a 600 Nitro pocket pistol that holds 30 rounds, kicks like a 22 and shoots MOA at 100 yards. Since I haven't been able to find one, I've had to compromise. It is my belief that if a gun is too big to ccw, you probably won't tote it much. I carry a full sized 1911 in the winter, but generally carry one of my little ones shown below (Kahr PM9, S&W Airweight and the G26).

BTW, I don't care what Gaston says, Glocks don't have safties. Pull the trigger and they go bang. I treat mine like revolvers with light triggers.


14 posted on 06/07/2010 6:41:23 PM PDT by umgud (Obama is a failed experiment.)
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To: Labyrinthos
My list for a carry weapon:

A safety is necessary (rules out all Glocks)
Onerous or sketchy safeties are out (ie. No Quicksafe from Walther)
Short trigger
Light trigger (~ 5 lbs)
No magazine disconnect (rules out A LOT of weapons)



My carry weapon:


15 posted on 06/07/2010 6:43:07 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Anti-Gunners suffer from Factose Intolerance)
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To: umgud
BTW, I don't care what Gaston says, Glocks don't have safties. Pull the trigger and they go bang. I treat mine like revolvers with light triggers.

Bingo!
If I told people I carried my 1911 in Condition Zero (I don't), they would call me nuts and rightfully so. Yet this is precisely how Glocks are carried.
16 posted on 06/07/2010 6:44:57 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Anti-Gunners suffer from Factose Intolerance)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Forgot to add to my list.....Single Action for consistent trigger pull.


17 posted on 06/07/2010 6:46:29 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Anti-Gunners suffer from Factose Intolerance)
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To: Labyrinthos

As a glockaholic, I would recommend the 19. I have the 19 and the 26, as well as the 17 in a 9 mm. I also have a 22 and a 23. I have not bothered to get a 27 which is the subcompact 40 s&w.

I love the 19. I have quite a number of 9 mm handguns, from sigs to rugers to glocks s&w, etc. The glock 19 is my fave..., that and my sig 228. They are nice and compact, not too small a mag (the glock 19 is NOT a 10+1, but rather an 15 round mag) and it is just blisteringly accurate. I carry it and my sig 228 because the sig just feels so well balanced in my hand. I am slightly more accurate with the glock, and at 200 dollars less, you can’t go wrong.

I don’t care much for the 26. I have the pinky extension grips and they pinch my hand when I shoot them. They ARE just concealable as everything, but the 19 is almost so.

I use a “thunderwear” holster which fits in front of my crotch and no one ever knows I am carrying. Ever. Google them. They make a great concealed holster. Also Crossdraw makes a nice hip/side concealed holster.

Lotsa glock haters out there, but they are wonderful firearms and so easy to field strip and clean that an idiot could do it.

Only one caveat on glocks. If you load your own ammo and pour your own lead bullets DO NOT USE THE GLOCK BARREL. The twist on it will lead foul and then you will have a KABOOM on your hands. There are lots of good aftermarket barrels for Glock to use if you melt lead and pour your own.

Other than that, I would say you can’t go wrong with a Glock.

Final piece of advice. Borrow one of each and shoot a box or so of ammo thru it. Remember, the gun is only as good as YOU are with the gun. I have yet to hear of a bad guy who mocks the firearm you use to ventilate his chest as he lay dying. Find a gun you are comfortable with, then worry about carrying it concealed.

Hope all that helps.


18 posted on 06/07/2010 6:46:42 PM PDT by AK_47_7.62x39 (There are many moderate Muslims, but there is no such thing as a moderate Islam. -- Geert Wilders)
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To: All
Bang list FReepers:

I am looking for a thread from earlier this year that was about or lead to posts about a .44 that kaboomed the top off. There were links to another site (high road?) that got to the bottom of the cause. Anyone recall that? Any help finding it is appreciated. Thanks!

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread...

19 posted on 06/07/2010 6:47:37 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Labyrinthos

The grip safety of my XD-40 subcompact, plus the feel, is what sealed the deal. I don’t want to mess with a thumb safety in the heat of the moment, but it does give me peace of mind. The XD-9 would also be a fine EDC.


20 posted on 06/07/2010 6:50:27 PM PDT by scott7278 ("...I have not changed Congress and how it operates the way I would have liked." BHO)
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To: Labyrinthos
XD is a nice pistol, though I have found that blocky guns like a Glock don't conceal as nicely as a 1911 will on my frame and manner of dress. Narrow frames are far more concealable than small blocky 'brick' guns like a Glock or XD. I have a full size 1911 with slimmed down grip scales that practically disappears on me when I dress right, but the the Glocks I have print a little bit. This may be important for you, but in my state 'printing' while CCW is not an issue of any kind.

Only two pistols that I'd like to acquire lately are a the newly released Colt New Agent .45 ACP and an Hk USP Tactical Compact 45. I'd probably make either of those my primary carry gun, but I'm still searching for the best carry method.

One thing that I can tell you is that you'll collect a sock drawer full of unsuitable CCW holsters you don't use anymore until you find the one that you really like best.

21 posted on 06/07/2010 6:51:13 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: Labyrinthos

Consider a .38 special or .357 magnum (shooting .38 Special) by smith and wesson. As reliable as a rock, if you stay away from environments where it is subject to abuse (not my first choice for Afghanistan).

Not as stylish as some, but effective, and reliable.


22 posted on 06/07/2010 6:54:42 PM PDT by donmeaker (Invicto)
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To: MileHi
I am looking for a thread from earlier this year that was about or lead to posts about a .44 that kaboomed the top off.

Not sure it's the same, but someone recently emailed me a pic of a S&W 629 that blew off top half of cyl and top strap.

23 posted on 06/07/2010 6:59:31 PM PDT by umgud (Obama is a failed experiment.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

the glock safety is ergonomically located. You can make a case that it is too much so. To pretend it has no safety is false. The 1911 safety is also ergonomically located, going to fire position when muscles twitch “Close grip”. By contrast double action revolvers have no safety, and have an enviable safety reputation despite that. Glocks with NY trigger (~8 lbs pull) have a much better reputation for safety than Glocks with lighter (~5 lbs) trigger pull.


24 posted on 06/07/2010 7:01:34 PM PDT by donmeaker (Invicto)
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To: Labyrinthos

25 posted on 06/07/2010 7:02:03 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet)
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To: Labyrinthos

26 posted on 06/07/2010 7:02:03 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet)
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To: Labyrinthos
One more thing. You mentioned Glock, safeties, and "accidental discharge." I am assuming you will PRACTICE with the weapon. Not just firing it, but PRESENTING it to fire (more impt than firing it, imo). If you do, you will learn trigger discipline and learn to avoid accidental NEGLIGENT discharge. Simply put, keep your finger off the trigger till you have acquired your target. Basic rule of handgun safety. Like I said, I use a concealed holster that sits in front of my family jewels. I have a vested interest in not shooting my balls off. I have spent several hours extracting and presenting the firearm as rapidly as possible. I would recommend any person who will carry concealed do the same. If you do, you will have no problem with the glock safety...... either that or carry without one in the tube, but I think that is just stupid, myself, even after watching that Israeli training vid (they all carry with an empty tube and part of the training is to chamber a round when they present the handgun).
27 posted on 06/07/2010 7:02:06 PM PDT by AK_47_7.62x39 (There are many moderate Muslims, but there is no such thing as a moderate Islam. -- Geert Wilders)
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To: donmeaker

A Glock is a 1911 in Condition Zero (ie no real safety).


28 posted on 06/07/2010 7:03:41 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Anti-Gunners suffer from Factose Intolerance)
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To: AK_47_7.62x39
the glock 19 is NOT a 10+1, but rather an 15 round mag

Glock apparently makes two variations of the G19 in 10+1 (night sight and fixed sight) for those of us who live in states that limit the magazine capacity (i.e., NY, Calif, Mass, CT, etc.)

29 posted on 06/07/2010 7:03:54 PM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: Labyrinthos

for later


30 posted on 06/07/2010 7:04:01 PM PDT by lowflyn (He'll crack before we do.)
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To: MileHi

Glocks have a bad reputation when used to shoot reloads. There is a weakness in the side of the chamber, and if a reload has been previously fired with the same side to the weakness, it will often fail toward your hand. Very unpleasant, I have it on good authority.

Either don’t shoot reloads, or have a very elaborate and formal method of keeping track of which way the round was positioned each time it is fired, so that is can never be fired twice with the weakness against the same part of the brass case.


31 posted on 06/07/2010 7:06:50 PM PDT by donmeaker (Invicto)
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To: Labyrinthos

I’ve got an XDm, 1911 EMP and an LCR. The XDm (same size as XD) is pretty large for concealed carry. The EMP is perfect size for concealed carry.

The LCR is even better because it’s so light and you don’t have to worry about whether it’s cocked or locked, etc.


32 posted on 06/07/2010 7:07:02 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: donmeaker
Not as stylish as some, but effective, and reliable.

Not to mention very concealable.

33 posted on 06/07/2010 7:07:49 PM PDT by BILLNHILL MAKE ME ILL (Onward thru the smoke, mirrors, and B.S....)
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To: Labyrinthos
Glock apparently makes two variations of the G19 in 10+1 (night sight and fixed sight) for those of us who live in states that limit the magazine capacity (i.e., NY, Calif, Mass, CT, etc.)

Yes, everyone makes Cal mags. I assumed you lived in a free state. If not, 10 round mags will be the best you can do no matter what handgun you pick.

34 posted on 06/07/2010 7:10:51 PM PDT by AK_47_7.62x39 (There are many moderate Muslims, but there is no such thing as a moderate Islam. -- Geert Wilders)
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To: Red in Blue PA

No. It is not. It is a different and now much copied design that lives in the space between double and single action. The 1911 is a single action design.

The Glock, like the XD and the ParaOrd LD are about 1/3 to 1/2 cocked in the holster, with the remaining 2/3rds or 1/2 of the cocking stroke provided by the user’s trigger stroke.

If you say that 1/2 to 2/3ds is not safe enough for you I understand and support that.

Reality is what it is.


35 posted on 06/07/2010 7:11:43 PM PDT by donmeaker (Invicto)
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To: donmeaker
The Glock, like the XD and the ParaOrd LD are about 1/3 to 1/2 cocked in the holster, with the remaining 2/3rds or 1/2 of the cocking stroke provided by the user’s trigger stroke.

If you pull the trigger and it goes bang.....that is Condition Zero.
36 posted on 06/07/2010 7:13:11 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Anti-Gunners suffer from Factose Intolerance)
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To: Red in Blue PA

In a 1911.

Double Action Revolvers have different definitions for condition zero.


37 posted on 06/07/2010 7:13:59 PM PDT by donmeaker (Invicto)
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To: Labyrinthos

No one has mentioned an SA/DA without a safety, such as a Walther P99 or P99C AS. No one’s mentioned a SIG 229, either. The initial DA pull if you don’t have time to cock is stiff enough that accidental discharge is quite unlikely. Just something to consider. (Living in MA, Springfields are unavailable to me.)


38 posted on 06/07/2010 7:15:47 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: Labyrinthos
Walther P99 (or S&W P99)


39 posted on 06/07/2010 7:16:46 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: Labyrinthos
I'm knarf's friend and he asked me to respond to you post.

In picking a CC weapon you need to consider afew things.What size of man you are,what weapon you can opperate with confidence,time and moneys needed to learn your weapon. I carry a glock 19 and love it.I've carried for over 15 years and this so far is the best cc weapon I've ever owned.Like you I have large hands to go along with my 6'2" 250 lbs body type.I was also worried about how the Glock 19 would do in my hands.Too my surprise it worked very well.In fact I'm shooting better now then I ever have.Also like you I love to shoot and the price of the 9mm is good for me.

My Glock holds 15+1 and I always have 46 rounds on me at all times.And if you want to go a little rogue you can get 33 rounders for it..(got to love it..)

Keeping in mind that there is no wrong weapon if no one know's you have it on you and when you need it you can hit your target..

good luck and keep shootin'

40 posted on 06/07/2010 7:19:35 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: Labyrinthos

I started one of these threads last month. Ended up going with the Heckler & Koch P30 (HK USPc 9mm was my second choice, followed by Walther P99, Sig P239 and Glock 19).

I cannot recommend the HK P30 highly enough. It is truly a fantastic pistol ... compact, comfortable, concealable, powerful, reliable, accurate, rugged. A truly badass weapon.

I am an HK believer at this point. Getting an HK USP Compact .45 later this year.

SnakeDoc


41 posted on 06/07/2010 7:20:45 PM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("Shut it down" ... 00:00:03 ... 00:00:02 ... 00:00:01 ... 00:00:00.)
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To: umgud

I want a .50 BMG pocket pistol that kicks like a pellet gun and is just as quiet. And it has to fit in my pocket. When it goes, off, I want it to vaporize everything within a kilometer. In the general direction I’m pointing it, that is. Also it should not vaporize good people. Am I asking too much?


42 posted on 06/07/2010 7:20:51 PM PDT by Sender (It's never too late to be who you could have been.)
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To: donmeaker
Glocks have a bad reputation when used to shoot reloads. There is a weakness in the side of the chamber, and if a reload has been previously fired with the same side to the weakness, it will often fail toward your hand. Very unpleasant, I have it on good authority.

Either don’t shoot reloads, or have a very elaborate and formal method of keeping track of which way the round was positioned each time it is fired, so that is can never be fired twice with the weakness against the same part of the brass case.

I have reloaded and shot thousands of reloads in my Glocks. It is the 40s that have the reputation for kabooms, and that was in the early models.

Glock has sloppy tolerances, which is one reason why they are so reliable. They hardly ever jam, stovepipe or force you to clear a round. That loose tolerance allowed excessive pressures in some of their early 40s and created some problems, BUT on every one of them sent back to glock there was evidence of hot loads.

I shoot normal reloads. That means when it calls for 5 grains of bullseye I LOAD 5 grains, and dont' think "boy howdy, this will really drill em if I run on up to 8 or so." I do reasonable checks when I load and cull split or bulged cases, but you can reload straightwall case brass NUMBERS of times and not worry about an accident.

Glocks really have no greater number of kabooms than any other handgun. I have pics of sigs, colts, smith/wesson, kimbers, H&Ks, rugers and berettas that all blew up. They are mechanical instruments under tremendous pressure and they will sometimes fail. Glocks fail "more" simply because there are so many "more" of them.

43 posted on 06/07/2010 7:21:34 PM PDT by AK_47_7.62x39 (There are many moderate Muslims, but there is no such thing as a moderate Islam. -- Geert Wilders)
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BTTT


44 posted on 06/07/2010 7:22:52 PM PDT by DollyCali (Don't tell God how big your storm is...Tell the storm how big your God is!)
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To: Labyrinthos

Try either the XD .40 Cal or 9mm, both have an extender allowing for a 10 capacity Mag and they fit beautifully in my large hand.

Furthermore, I have the XD .45 and love it’s performance.


45 posted on 06/07/2010 7:24:38 PM PDT by SoConPubbie
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To: Red in Blue PA

She’s a beauty.

Consider that the M1911 has been around for 100 years.
Gotta love it.


46 posted on 06/07/2010 7:25:50 PM PDT by BerserkPatriot (There are no 1st Amendment rights without 2nd Amendment Rights)
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To: SoConPubbie; Labyrinthos

Oh, I forgot to mention, it’s a sub-compact.


47 posted on 06/07/2010 7:26:02 PM PDT by SoConPubbie
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To: Labyrinthos

The HK P30 ... 15+1 capacity, HK reliability, and relatively concealable. It is the most comfortable gun you'll ever hold. Comes with two alternate backstraps and side grips for different hand sizes.

Only down side is that HK is a high-end brand ... which means you're going to pay a bit more for it. But, you'll never regret spending a bit more.

SnakeDoc

48 posted on 06/07/2010 7:27:12 PM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("Shut it down" ... 00:00:03 ... 00:00:02 ... 00:00:01 ... 00:00:00.)
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To: Sender

you forgot “I want the bullet to home in on evil.”

Like the receipe for the perfect knife:
Sharp as a needle,
Keen as a razor,
Small enough to fit in your pocket,
Big enough to use as a paddle for your canoe.


49 posted on 06/07/2010 7:27:43 PM PDT by donmeaker (Invicto)
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To: SnakeDoctor

HK is the company that hates you because you suck.

Pity some of their products are darned adequate. Too bad they seem to insist that buyers drink their coolaide. Lot of German companies like that.


50 posted on 06/07/2010 7:29:15 PM PDT by donmeaker (Invicto)
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