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Equal, But… (how do children of homosexual "couples" do?)
Catholic Exchange ^ | 6/14/2010 | Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse

Posted on 06/14/2010 8:31:11 AM PDT by markomalley

“Kids Do as Well with Same Sex Parents,” the headlines screamed. I crossed swords with Judith Stacey, one of the authors of this most recent study, at a debate at Bowling Green State a few years ago. I asked her point blank if she believed men and women were completely interchangeable as parents. In front of that very friendly audience, she said absolutely: the gender of parents doesn’t matter. And so she says now, in this new article the media loved. But midway through the article, her argument shifts from a “no difference” argument to my favorite definition of feminism: men and women are identical, except women are better. Her article ends with an intimation that I believe tells strongly against same sex marriage. Redefining marriage will create a cultural climate that will drive men out of the family, and lead to the belief that the only good man is a gay man.

The claim that the gender of parents doesn’t matter is a crucial argument for same sex marriage advocates. Treating same sex unions like marriage amounts to saying that mothers and fathers are interchangeable. It is a coin toss from a child’s point of view, whether they have two moms, two dads, or one of each. So here is how Judith Stacey and Timothy Biblarz show that “Two Mommies are as Good as Mom and Dad.”

What the Evidence Says

They say that the evidence purportedly showing that children need mothers and fathers doesn’t really prove any such thing. That research conflates five factors that are conceptually distinct: the number of parents, the gender of parents, sexual identity, marital status and “biogenetic relationship to children.” Children with married couple parents have one straight male and one straight female parent who are married to each other and both biologically related to them. To prove that heterosexual marriage is uniquely good for children, and superior to same sex parenting, we really need studies that separate all these factors. So, Stacey and Biblarz gathered 81 studies that compare families in these various dimensions.

But hold it right there: before we enter into this argument, look at what we are being asked to take on faith. The “biogenetic relationship to the child” is a ten dollar phrase meaning that the adults in the couple are actually the parents of the children. We have always taken for granted the idea that kids are entitled to a mom and a dad because a mom and a dad is what it takes to have a “biogenetic” origin, in the first place. By breaking marriage down into its constituent elements, Stacey and Biblarz are asking us to break ourselves and our children, into pieces. The children in my household need not be products of my sexual union with anybody in particular, or even a sexual union at all. The birth parents can be different from the legal parents can be different from the caregiving parents.

And the kids are supposed to be ok with all this.

But put that to one side. Let’s also put to one side the question of whether the interpretative scheme that Stacey and Biblarz construct around the 81 studies they summarize is really the one and only possible interpretation of all that data. It would take another whole article to deconstruct that issue. Instead allow me a few quotes, from “How Does the Gender of Parents Matter?” to illustrate my point that fatherhood itself is at stake in the same sex parenting debate.

See what I mean? Men and women are identical, except women are better.

“Gender nonconformity” used to be considered a negative trait, something, which if found, provided an argument against same sex parenting. But listen to Stacey and Biblarz turn “gender flexibility” into a positive trait.

Interchangeable?

The bottom line is not really that mothers and fathers are interchangeable, but that masculinity is a bad thing.

Same sex marriage is being sold to the public as a small change, with “marriage equality” as the only important issue. I believe there is much more at stake in redefining the law and the culture surrounding marriage and parenthood. This article supposedly showing that “kids do fine” with lesbian parents, has proven my point for me. The drive for same sex marriage will marginalize men from the family, and lead to the belief that the only good man is a gay man.


TOPICS: Health/Medicine; Society
KEYWORDS: consent; homosexualagenda; indoctrination; lavendermafia; pseudointellectual; samesexadoption; trash

1 posted on 06/14/2010 8:31:11 AM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley

My wife can not stand feminists. Ask my kids if they like having a mommy and a daddy.


2 posted on 06/14/2010 8:36:42 AM PDT by aliquando (A Scout is T, L, H, F, C, K, O, C, T, B, C, and R.)
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To: markomalley
Having some experience in this area (my niece was raised in a lesbian household and it turned out "not well"), I'm not sure it's so much being raised in a gay household, as being raised in a stable household.

In our case, it was a rotating door on "life partners" - leaving little stability for someone growing up.

3 posted on 06/14/2010 8:38:14 AM PDT by jrg
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To: markomalley

“By breaking marriage down into its constituent elements, Stacey and Biblarz are asking us to break ourselves and our children, into pieces.” Deconstruction, thy name is postmodernism. Geez, think Stacy and Biblarz (is this a real name?) went to the ivy leagues? Such a heavy dose of intellect, not.


4 posted on 06/14/2010 8:42:22 AM PDT by equalitybeforethelaw
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To: markomalley
The major goal of feminists, IMO, has always been to marginalize the real men. It's a domination by women theory. For the past 20 or so years, I have seen it in the commercials on TV.... the children or the wife dominates/castrates the father/husband who is made to appear as a weak stupid jerk....harmless but silly. That is so prevalent that it is taken for granted and has been internalized in the past generation of children. What a shame!

Another byproduct of this emasculation of men is that now we see women rising up in politics, and justly so, because the men are no longer able or willing to do it!

As C.S. Lewis said “We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise.”

5 posted on 06/14/2010 8:43:35 AM PDT by bareford101 (Be loud! We have nothing – NOTHING - to apologize for in fighting for our Country!!)
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To: markomalley
Children with married couple parents have one straight male and one straight female parent who are married to each other and both biologically related to them. To prove that heterosexual marriage is uniquely good for children, and superior to same sex parenting, we really need studies that separate all these factors.

The problem, as alluded by the article, is that too often those arguing against same-sex parents try to argue that it's simply a matter of having two sexes, rather than admitting that the ideal situation is biological parents. The problem being that once you admit that biological parents are the best for the children, you have to admit that all the special acts taken by people to have kids (surrogates, adoption, fostering, sperm donations) are less desirable from the child's point of view. Sure, being adopted is better than being an orphan, but it's not as good as having your biological parents raise you. Biology matters -- that's why so many adopted kids try to find their biological parents.

6 posted on 06/14/2010 8:52:11 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: markomalley

More junk science by libs w/an agenda.

Pray for America


7 posted on 06/14/2010 8:53:41 AM PDT by bray (Throw the Bums out starting w/McCain)
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To: jrg

“it was a rotating door on “life partners”...”

Stability probably is the key factor. We know a lesbian couple who raised the son of one of them. He’s an exceptional young man, now married with a baby of his own. The ‘parents’ have been together 19 years & other gay friends are always asking how they manage to stay together.

A counselor I knew years ago told me once that all young teens go through a homosexual phase that they grow out of. I doubt that’s politically correct for a counselor to say now. But it seems that most every gay person I’ve known (including the couple) are rather juvenile in many ways. It is a wonder they’ve stayed together!


8 posted on 06/14/2010 9:00:51 AM PDT by Twotone (Marte Et Clypeo)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Is there data suggesting “the ideal situation is biological parents,” or are you arguing from a gut feeling?

I suspect outcomes data would show the opposite of what you suggest. 100% of adopted children are wanted, this is far from the case for biological children.


9 posted on 06/14/2010 9:08:18 AM PDT by ivyleaguebrat
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To: markomalley

When I meet two lebians with a kid, I’m going to nicely ask them who the FATHER is. I’ll never relinquish this reality.


10 posted on 06/14/2010 9:14:30 AM PDT by fwdude
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To: markomalley

““Thus, it may not be fatherlessness that expands gender capacities in sons but heterosexual fatherlessness. When gay men, lesbians or heterosexual women parent apart from the influence of heterosexual masculinity, they all seem to do so in comparatively gender-flexible ways that may enable their sons to break free from gender constraints as well.””

See. Having a Mother and a Father ‘forces’ boys to be boys and girls to be girls.

Can’t have that... ./s


11 posted on 06/14/2010 9:21:21 AM PDT by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
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To: markomalley

I know a couple who divoriced and after that the woman moved in with her girlfriend. The two daughters did not do well and begged for years to go live with their Dad. The girls will tell you how awful it was to always be stared at and not be invited anywhere. Those two I think are the most outspoken anti gay people I’ve ever seen but they know first hand about what goes on.


12 posted on 06/14/2010 9:25:57 AM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: markomalley
There is a wonderful book by Kate O'Beirne titled "Women Who Make The World Worse"

It can be found at: http://www.amazon.com/Women-Who-Make-World-Worse/dp/1595230092/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Such great insight into NOW and the demands of the members who will never be satisfied!

13 posted on 06/14/2010 9:30:45 AM PDT by mckenzie7 (Democrats = Trough Sloppers!)
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To: bareford101

“For the past 20 or so years, I have seen it in the commercials on TV.... the children or the wife dominates/castrates the father/husband who is made to appear as a weak stupid jerk....harmless but silly”

I totally agree and have commented on this observation myself. I call them “stupid-husband commercials.” I see them on TV and hear them on radio all the time. The hapless husband, ALWAYS a white male, cannot so much as chew gum and walk without his shrewish wife correcting and informing him. I’m a woman, and I feel like slapping some of these acid-tongued witches!


14 posted on 06/14/2010 9:34:49 AM PDT by 1951Boomer
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To: Twotone

the couselor is full of something, and it ain’t wisdom. I can honestly say that I never went through a homosexual stage, not unless it occurred before age 6, when I first fell in love with a little blond-haired girl in first grade. I can’t remember her name, now. but she filled my dreams for a year.

I ain’t never looked on the other side of the fence. the very thought makes me squirm in discomfort.

so, so much for his “everybody”


15 posted on 06/14/2010 9:47:00 AM PDT by chesley (Lib arguments are neither factual, logical, rational, nor reasonable. They are, however, creative.)
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To: equalitybeforethelaw

Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground engaged in sexual experimentation (Bill Ayers boffed men and women in the Underground).

His stated purpose in this was to “Smash Monogamy”.

When they ask “how does this threaten the institution of marriage, look to the words of Sex Positive advocates who long believed that marriage itself is an outdated structure.


16 posted on 06/14/2010 9:49:05 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (Throw the bums out in 2010.)
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To: Bigh4u2

Wth did that rambling, pseudo-intellectual nonsense even mean anyway?


17 posted on 06/14/2010 9:56:05 AM PDT by darkangel82 (I don't have a superiority complex, I'm just better than you.)
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To: chesley
the couselor is full of something

#2?

18 posted on 06/14/2010 9:58:17 AM PDT by darkangel82 (I don't have a superiority complex, I'm just better than you.)
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To: darkangel82

“boys growing up without fathers ENABLED them to have greater gender FLEXIBILITY”!!!!!!????

I am reminded of a scene in Slap Shot where Paul Newman tells the owner of the Charlston Chiefs that her son is going to have something in his mouth before you can say Jack Robinson.


19 posted on 06/14/2010 10:06:09 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: bareford101
The major goal of feminists, IMO, has always been to marginalize the real men.

Yesterday after church, I took my daughter to pick up a bathing suit at Target.

As we shopped, a pair of very obviously homosexual women came into the area. One was wearing a button-down oxford dress shirt, kacky dress pants, boots, and a leather belt. She was the typical 180 lb, 6.5', short-haired, homely homosexual woman.

When she saw us, she smiled, then said aloud to her friend "Duh, that suit shows too much skin! Put it back or you'll go to hell." I'm pretty easy to nail down as a conservative, even when I haven't come straight from church. I'm sure the woman said this to annoy me and/or try to make me look foolish in front of my daughter and the other customers. Her friend snickered.

I didn't know how to respond at first. I've been to pro-victory rallies, and mixed it up with code pink types, but I'd never been so brazenly attacked in a public/peaceful setting. My daugther, as well as other customers, were just stunned, too.

Everyone was looking at me. In a normal voice, I told my daughter "That suit is nice, but I like the other one better. Why not try them on and see what you think."

Then I turned to the woman and said "You must be lost. The men's department is in the back of the store." She didn't like that, but several customers in the area smiled. Another father asked me "Do they have a big and tall section?"

Surprisingly, the homo women didn't have anything to say. I expected them to come back with both barrels, but they just said something under their breath to one another and kept shopping.
20 posted on 06/14/2010 10:06:44 AM PDT by ConservativeWarrior (In last year's nests, there are no birds this year.)
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To: ivyleaguebrat

The article in discussion makes this point, and suggests that the studies that are examined by the analysis they are refuting back this concept.


21 posted on 06/14/2010 10:12:37 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: ivyleaguebrat

As to “100% of adopted children are wanted”, it is just as true that 100% of the pets purchased are “wanted”, at the time they are purchased, and yet millions of pets are abandoned when people grow tired of them.

You just don’t as easily abandon something that is a part of you. Sure there are cases where a biological parent doesn’t want a child, and therefore that child is better off being adopted than being with the selfish biological parent — but that doesn’t mean that child wouldn’t have been better off with a biological parent who wanted them.


22 posted on 06/14/2010 10:14:55 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: darkangel82

I think that you have divined the essence of my meaning.

In short, yes!


23 posted on 06/14/2010 10:20:04 AM PDT by chesley (Lib arguments are neither factual, logical, rational, nor reasonable. They are, however, creative.)
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To: ConservativeWarrior

You stood up to them. They’re not used to having their Master Race status challenged by “a breeder”.


24 posted on 06/14/2010 10:35:21 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: ConservativeWarrior

Sounds like you pw3nd them.


25 posted on 06/14/2010 10:44:23 AM PDT by darkangel82 (I don't have a superiority complex, I'm just better than you.)
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To: ConservativeWarrior

good for you!!!!! that was a perfect response!!!! I’m not sure I would have been brave enough to say that, but now that I know you did, perhaps I can gain some courage to speak out when these people try to marginalize Christians!


26 posted on 06/14/2010 10:57:42 AM PDT by bareford101 (Be loud! We have nothing – NOTHING - to apologize for in fighting for our Country!!)
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To: bareford101
A year ago, I wouldn't have said anything, either.

I've just had enough. We've been polite for too long, and turned the other cheek too many times.
27 posted on 06/14/2010 11:16:59 AM PDT by ConservativeWarrior (In last year's nests, there are no birds this year.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

You make an interesting and compelling point.


28 posted on 06/14/2010 11:37:10 AM PDT by ivyleaguebrat
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To: ConservativeWarrior

What, do they all take classes to learn mandatory phrases? I’ve come across the “If (whatever)....you’ll go to hell” crap as well. Good for you! They are the ones who look ridiculous, especially when making a point of calling attention to themselves.


29 posted on 06/14/2010 12:30:09 PM PDT by greatplains
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To: markomalley

Consider the source, funding and design...
As IF the outcome of this study was going to show anything but what it showed.

Strike 1: The author is Nanette Gartrell (who is “married” to Dee Mosbacher, a self-described “lesbian feminist activist”).

Strike 2: The study’s funding was underwritten by LGBT interests.

Strike 3: the study outcome is invalid due to self-selection bias of the experimental group (154 prospective lesbian mothers volunteered themselves). There is no control group (hetero couples, single straight parents, etc.

Strike 4: The methodology of the study called for THE PARENTS to rate their own children, and the children to rate THEMSELVES via an “online survey.”

It’s a farce, people. If you have respect for real science, just file this colossal waste of time under “p” for propaganda.


30 posted on 06/14/2010 4:57:26 PM PDT by Antioch (Benedikt Gott Geschickt)
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To: markomalley

Excellent article. Common sense says that the study is manure, but having the reasoning and facts laid bare confirms our good senses.


31 posted on 06/14/2010 7:11:12 PM PDT by fwdude
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To: ConservativeWarrior

Bravo! See, if normal people just have the guts to stand up to these troglodyte perverts, they usually back down. Yes, we’ve been sickeningly polite for too long, and the homo-perverts have capitalized on this character flaw of ours for all it’s worth. Without a lawyer within shouting distance, they are sniveling cowards.


32 posted on 06/14/2010 7:16:04 PM PDT by fwdude
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To: chris_bdba

One of the most disturbing aspects of injecting children into a same-sex relationship is that a main core value of the homosexual culture has always been sexual libertinism. Homosexuals are alarmingly and exponentially more sexually profligate, often openly and proudly so, than the normal world; so much so that they flaunt their licentiousness in the faces of society through their “pride” parades, street fairs, and in their night clubs. Their world is soaked in eroticism; and even though a particular homosexual may not practice promiscuity, it is a well established “value” among homosexual groups who will never tolerate dissension among their members regarding this practice.


33 posted on 06/15/2010 8:32:33 PM PDT by fwdude
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