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Geologist investigates canyon carved in just three days in Texas flood
PHYSORG ^ | 06/21/2010

Posted on 06/21/2010 7:40:31 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

In the summer of 2002, a week of heavy rains in Central Texas caused Canyon Lake -- the reservoir of the Canyon Dam -- to flood over its spillway and down the Guadalupe River Valley in a planned diversion to save the dam from catastrophic failure. The flood, which continued for six weeks, stripped the valley of mesquite, oak trees, and soil; destroyed a bridge; and plucked meter-wide boulders from the ground. And, in a remarkable demonstration of the power of raging waters, the flood excavated a 2.2-kilometer-long, 7-meter-deep canyon in the bedrock.


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: canyon; canyonlake; catastrophism; flood; geology; godsgravesglyphs; grandcanyon; greatflood; noah; noahsflood; stevierayvaughn; texas

This is an aerial photograph taken near the time of the 2002 flood event at Canyon Lake, Texas. Floodwaters overflowed Canyon Lake reservoir and carved the gorge downstream.
1 posted on 06/21/2010 7:40:35 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

MORE HERE :

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/06/100620155748.htm

Canyon Carved in Just Three Days in Texas Flood: Insight Into Ancient Flood Events on Earth and Mars

In the summer of 2002, a week of heavy rains in Central Texas caused Canyon Lake — the reservoir of the Canyon Dam — to flood over its spillway and down the Guadalupe River Valley in a planned diversion to save the dam from catastrophic failure. The flood, which continued for six weeks, stripped the valley of mesquite, oak trees, and soil; destroyed a bridge; and plucked meter-wide boulders from the ground. And, in a remarkable demonstration of the power of raging waters, the flood excavated a 2.2-kilometer-long, 7-meter-deep canyon in the bedrock.

According to a new analysis of the flood and its aftermath — performed by Michael Lamb, assistant professor of geology at the California Institute of Technology (Caltech), and Mark Fonstad of Texas State University — the canyon formed in just three days.

A paper about the research appears in the June 20 advance online edition of the journal Nature Geoscience.

Our traditional view of deep river canyons, such as the Grand Canyon, is that they are carved slowly, as the regular flow and occasionally moderate rushing of rivers erodes rock over periods of millions of years.

Such is not always the case, however. “We know that some big canyons have been cut by large catastrophic flood events during Earth’s history,” Lamb says.

Unfortunately, these catastrophic megafloods — which also may have chiseled out spectacular canyons on Mars — generally leave few telltale signs to distinguish them from slower events. “There are very few modern examples of megafloods,” Lamb says, “and these events are not normally witnessed, so the process by which such erosion happens is not well understood.” Nevertheless, he adds, “the evidence that is left behind, like boulders and streamlined sediment islands, suggests the presence of fast water” — although it reveals nothing about the time frame over which the water flowed.

This is why the Canyon Lake flood is so significant. “Here, we know that all of the erosion occurred during the flood,” Lamb says. “Flood waters flowed for several weeks, but the highest discharge — during which the bulk of the erosion took place — was over a period of just three days.”

Lamb and Fonstad reached this conclusion using aerial photographs of the region taken both before and after the flood, along with field measurements of the topography of the region and measurements of the flood discharge. Then they applied an empirical model of the sediment-carrying capacity of the flood — that is, the amount of soil, rocks, boulders, and other debris carried by the flood to produce the canyon.

The analysis revealed that the rate of the canyon erosion was so rapid that it was limited only by the amount of sediment the floodwaters could carry. This is in contrast to models normally applied to rivers where the erosion is limited by the rate at which the underlying rock breaks and is abraded.

The researchers argue that the rate of erosion was rapid because the flood was able to pop out and cart away massive boulders (a process called “plucking”) — producing several 10- to 12-meter-high waterfalls that propagated upstream toward the dam, along with channels and terraces. The flood was able to pluck these boulders because the bedrock below the soil surface of the valley was already fractured and broken.

The abrasion of rock by sediment-loaded waters — while less significant in terms of the overall formation of the canyon — produced other features, like sculpted walls, plunge pools at the bases of the waterfalls, and teardrop-shaped sediment islands. The sediment islands are particularly significant, Lamb says, because “these are features we see on Earth and on Mars in areas where we think large flow events have occurred. It’s nice that here we’re seeing some of the same features that we’ve interpreted elsewhere as evidence of large flow events.”

The results, Lamb says, offer useful insight into ancient megafloods, both on Earth and on Mars, and the deep canyons they left behind. “We’re trying to build models of erosion rates so we can go to places like Mars and make quantitative reconstructions of how much water was there, how long it lasted, and how quickly it moved,” Lamb says. In addition, he says, “this is one of a few places where models for canyon formation can be tested because we know the flood conditions under which this canyon formed.”


2 posted on 06/21/2010 7:42:33 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

ALSO HERE:

http://www.livescience.com/environment/canyon-formed-rapidly-from-flood-100620.html

TITLE : Canyons Form Quickly, Recent Gusher Suggests

Some of the most spectacular canyons on Earth and Mars were probably formed in the geologic blink of an eye, suggests a new study that found clues to their formation deep in the heart of Texas.

Lake Canyon Gorge, a 23-feet- (7-meter-) deep canyon in Comal County, Texas, was carved in just three days by a flood in 2002. The flood scoured a swath of greenery, leaving sand-colored bedrock rubble in its wake.

“It was just a little v-shaped ditched before, but all that material was busted out during that event,” said engineer Tom Hornseth of Comal County, Texas.

Data gathered at this gorge will help researchers reconstruct the formation of ancient canyons.

A single catastrophic flood capable of cutting into bedrock is extremely rare, but the Comal flood gave scientists a front-row ticket to an event similar to those from the planet’s distant past.

Researchers climbed into the canyon, measured the rate and volume of the flood and took aerial photographs to document the rapid erosion. Their study is detailed in the June 20 early online edition of the journal Nature Geoscience.

Gorges are typically formed along pre-existing river channels. The Grand Canyon was formed as the Colorado River slowly wore down the bedrock. That probably took millions of years though, said geologist and study co-author Michael Lamb of Caltech in Pasadena, Calif.

Rapid gorge carving is a baffling example of how incising bedrock doesn’t take millions of years. At Lake Canyon Gorge, a single burst of water carried away heavy rocks, a process known to geologists as plucking. These sedimentary rocks were already broken down into pieces weighing a couple of tons, but exactly how this happens is not well understood, Lamb told OurAmazingPlanet.

Rapid megafloods may have formed canyons in the distant past as glacial ice dams released trapped water. Large floods may be responsible for the formation of some Martian canyons as well, the study suggests.


3 posted on 06/21/2010 7:45:38 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Young Earth/Creation Ping !

My apologies if it is unlawful for me to create a ping


4 posted on 06/21/2010 7:48:40 PM PDT by deltaromeo11 (if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36b)
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To: SeekAndFind

Waterfall created during the flood that rapidly formed Lake Canyon Gorge
5 posted on 06/21/2010 7:57:15 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: deltaromeo11

RE: My apologies if it is unlawful for me to create a ping


I am not aware that there is a rule that says you can’t create a ping.

Pings are in fact FOR INTERESTED PEOPLE.

I might add, although I am not a young earther, I have to admit that The Creation Research Society Quarterly, Journal of Creation and other peer-reviewed journals written by creation scientists, with field research and PhDs, have for years been talking about the power of catastrophic processes to produce the Grand Canyon and other large earth features in just days and weeks by breached dams and other megaflooding processes.

To them, this comes as no surprise. They’ve been arguing this for decades.


6 posted on 06/21/2010 8:02:11 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

I have been researching creation theory lately and finding some interesting things like human footprints with dinosaur footprints, dinosaur-looking art on Inca Stones and that Mt St Helen’s explosion caused trees to petrify on the bottom of a lake in the vicinity. I think it’s fascinating and it somewhat makes me wonder if evolution theory is just as bogus as the global warming hoax. But, don’t quote me on that.


7 posted on 06/21/2010 8:12:04 PM PDT by deltaromeo11 (if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36b)
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To: SeekAndFind

It comes as no surprise to me, either. Once I started researching the writings of Henry Morris, John Morris, and Ken Ham, it was if the scales fell from my eyes. I firmly believe in a young earth.


8 posted on 06/21/2010 8:25:54 PM PDT by Spudx7
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To: SeekAndFind
Most of the Grand Canyon was carved through the fairly soft Coconino sandstone, the 800 odd feet of red rock commonly seen in pictures. Coconino underlays much of Arizona and is easily fissured into layers. I have a piece of it sitting on my mantle, which has begun to split into layers over the years just by way of changing humidity.

I don't know the geology of this river but it does not shock me that a gorge could be cut through sedimentary strata quite rapidly.

9 posted on 06/21/2010 9:59:03 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: SeekAndFind
Here is a video of the Gorge now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6X_bC11hoQ

10 posted on 06/21/2010 10:29:58 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
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To: MeekOneGOP; ValerieTexas; txhurl; basil; SwinneySwitch; austinaero; lormand; WhyisaTexasgirlinPA; ..

TX ping.


11 posted on 06/22/2010 7:17:11 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (Remember in November. Clean the house on Nov. 2. / Progressive is a PC word for liberal democrat.)
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To: SeekAndFind; Spudx7; deltaromeo11
All that water merely uncovered what was already there.

This area was under the sea not that long ago and is covered with sediment.

I'm a firm believer that history is rediscovered/reinterpreted daily and that people lived in this area a lot longer ago than 15,000 or so years.

12 posted on 06/22/2010 1:08:46 PM PDT by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
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To: SeekAndFind

THanks for posting this.

Here’s some more info on the site.

http://www.canyonlakeguide.com/helpful_info/gorge.htm


13 posted on 06/22/2010 1:12:22 PM PDT by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
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To: wolfcreek

Why do you believe that it was 15,000 years or more ago?


14 posted on 06/22/2010 1:42:47 PM PDT by deltaromeo11 (if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36b)
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To: deltaromeo11
http://www.zianet.com/web/firstam.htm

Secondly, some of the oldest rock in the world exist in this country. I believe there's much left to be discovered.

My Wife who is a bit *sensitive* to natural phenomenon, believes one of the centers of creation exists in the American southwest.

15 posted on 06/22/2010 2:04:25 PM PDT by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
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To: 75thOVI; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aragorn; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; BBell; ...
Cue the Stevie Ray! Thanks SeekAndFind.
 
Catastrophism
 
· join · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post new topic · subscribe ·
 

16 posted on 06/22/2010 2:43:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 240B; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
Gods
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Thanks SeekAndFind.

Stevie Ray ping.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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17 posted on 06/22/2010 2:44:53 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: Arrowhead1952

Very interesting! Thanks, Arrowhead!


18 posted on 06/22/2010 2:48:34 PM PDT by LUV W (DIMs?......start packin'--you're fired!....I can see November from my house!)
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To: SunkenCiv
Our traditional view of deep river canyons, such as the Grand Canyon, is that they are carved slowly, as the regular flow and occasionally moderate rushing of rivers erodes rock over periods of millions of years.

Gradualism takes another hit.

19 posted on 06/22/2010 3:05:08 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: SunkenCiv
Our traditional view of deep river canyons, such as the Grand Canyon, is that they are carved slowly, as the regular flow and occasionally moderate rushing of rivers erodes rock over periods of millions of years.

Gradualism takes another hit.

20 posted on 06/22/2010 3:05:21 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: SeekAndFind; SunkenCiv

VERY cool! Has anyone ever taken a look at a large shaded relief graphic of North America? Amongst other curiosities, MASSIVE drainage channels from the continental divide eastward.


21 posted on 06/22/2010 4:13:35 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake (You have just two choices: SUBMIT or RESIST with everything you've got!)
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To: colorado tanker

You may also enjoy this one:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1054343/posts?page=14#14


22 posted on 06/22/2010 4:21:44 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SunkenCiv

LOL! The Grand Canyon carved by a glacial ice sheet??? I’m open to new ideas and theories, but damn, just damn. :-))


23 posted on 06/22/2010 4:29:08 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: deltaromeo11; Alamo-Girl; alstewartfan; betty boop; Blogger; Blood of Tyrants; cheee; ...

Unlawful???

Let’s ping the list for you then...

(I love to do unlawful things...)


24 posted on 06/22/2010 4:35:41 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: colorado tanker

;’)


25 posted on 06/22/2010 5:38:28 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SunkenCiv
Three days? Huh; Texas amateurs!

My access road & driveway had several new canyons after ONE night of thunderstorms.

This year, there's a new pond on the ranch, too; as well as a couple of formerly dry creeks flowing for the first time in decades.

If I could get there from here, I suspect my spring is gushing, instead of seeping, too.

26 posted on 06/22/2010 6:04:23 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Made in America, by proud American citizens, in 1946.)
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To: deltaromeo11
There are recognizable dinosaur types on Amerind petroglyphs in numerous spots in North America. Most interesting is likely the stegosaur (Mishipishu) glyph at Agawa Rock, Masinaw lake Superior:


27 posted on 06/22/2010 6:08:05 PM PDT by wendy1946
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To: wendy1946
You mean to say that that isn't the little-known Long Tailed Mohegan Mastodon? sar>

Bet Job would have recognized it, and that he had a name for it: Behemoth.

28 posted on 06/22/2010 6:15:42 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Made in America, by proud American citizens, in 1946.)
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To: ApplegateRanch

LOL!


29 posted on 06/22/2010 7:26:01 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SeekAndFind
in a remarkable demonstration of the power of raging waters, the flood excavated a 2.2-kilometer-long, 7-meter-deep canyon in the bedrock.

Are you sure?

I think they have miles, yards and feet in Texas.

30 posted on 06/22/2010 7:29:20 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Who allowed the worst oil pollution disaster in American history and did nothing?)
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To: SunkenCiv

You may laugh, but the squash patch is now in the potato field, and the potatoes are stretched throughout the pasture, and on down 6 miles of canyon, all the way to town.

The real bad news was the wind: we walked out a couple of days ago to find that all three of the turkey roosting snags on top of the ridge had blown down. I doubt that we were as unhappy as the turkeys, though. They have roosted there since long before we bought the ranch in 97.


31 posted on 06/22/2010 8:14:26 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Made in America, by proud American citizens, in 1946.)
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To: ApplegateRanch
No, the behemoth would have been a larger sauropod dinosaur. Mishipishu, or "water panther" in Ojibway language is described in Amerind oral traditions has having a sawblade back, red fur, and a "great spiked tail" which he used as a weapon. That's a stegosaur. Mishipishu glyphs were common when Europeans first got here and Lewis and Clarke described their Indian guides as being in mortal terror of them. They appeared around rivers and lakes and were meant as warnings, i.e. "One of these lives here, be careful". There are only a few of them left now. Amerind artists touch the things up every few decades or so and the horns on the Masinaw glyph were obviously added long after the last stegosaur died out; real stegosaurs didn't have horns.

But given the standard theory we were indoctrinated with in school in which dinosaurs died out tens of millions of years ago, the idea of drawing ANY creature with a sawblade back would never have occurred to anybody.

32 posted on 06/22/2010 8:15:25 PM PDT by wendy1946
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To: wendy1946

Yes, that description is a stegosaur. Never came across these glyphs existence before. Thanks for the information.


33 posted on 06/22/2010 8:54:51 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Made in America, by proud American citizens, in 1946.)
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To: editor-surveyor

Yet another example of some geologic event happening faster than expected.


34 posted on 06/22/2010 8:55:47 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: ApplegateRanch

You might have noticed... the people telling us that stegosaurs died out 70,000,000 years ago are the same people telling us that modern humans and Neanderthals had a common ancestor 800,000 years ago...


35 posted on 06/22/2010 9:21:12 PM PDT by wendy1946
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To: editor-surveyor

Thanks for the ping!


36 posted on 06/22/2010 9:54:28 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: SeekAndFind

I grew up near there and have spent many wonderful days along the Guadalupe River and then on Canyon Lake after the dam was built.

I remember vividly being on the top of a ridge above the area which would become indunated by the lake water. An engineer was showing me where the water conservation level would be at my feet. Looking down into the basin far below and miles away was a huge caterpillar crane. It looked about the size of a very small pea.

The engineer told me the lake was projected to fill about seven years after the impoundment began. I thought about the enormus amount of water that would be necessary to fill the lake and couldn’t believe it would ever happen.

But the rain gogs smiled and water-short Texas had some good years of rain. The lake filled in about two years, well short of predictions.


37 posted on 06/23/2010 5:31:17 AM PDT by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
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To: hinckley buzzard

Thank you. Show me a three day canyon in granite and we will talk.


38 posted on 06/23/2010 5:35:10 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Sometimes you have to go to dark places to get to the light....)
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To: ApplegateRanch

RE Behemoth

What kind of animal is it as described in the book of Job ?

JOB CHAPTER 40:

15 Behold now the behemoth that I have made with you; he eats grass like cattle.

16 Behold now his strength is in his loins and his power is
in the navel of his belly.

17 His tail hardens like a cedar; the sinews of his tendons are knit together.

18 His limbs are as strong as copper, his bones as a load of iron.

19 His is the first [largest] of God’s ways; [only] his Maker can draw His sword [against him].

20 For the mountains bear food for him, and all the beasts of the field play there.

21 Does he lie under the shadows, in the cover of the reeds and the swamp?

22 Do the shadows cover him as his shadow? Do the willows of the brook surround him?

23 Behold, he plunders the river, and [he] does not harden; he trusts that he will draw the Jordan into his mouth.

24 With His eyes He will take him; with snares He will puncture his nostrils.


39 posted on 06/23/2010 8:43:28 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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