1961 - Women weren't allowed to rent cars or fly jets or serve as police officers. ????

Fulton County Georgia School System ^ | 2010

[Liberty Ship]

Almost Astronauts: 13 Women Who Dared to Dream by Tanya Stone. At a time when women weren’t allowed to rent a car, play professional sports, fly jets, or serve as police officers, 13 strong women pilots sought the impossible: to be part of the Mercury 13 astronaut program in 1961. Non-Fiction. Lexile n/a.

[Liberty Ship]

I was looking at the Summer Reading List for the Fulton County Georgia School System, hoping to see at least one good classic. None, of course. But what I found was a list of "social engineering" books. I have posted the worst description above. It is a LIE.

The first woman police officer was Lola Baldwin, appointed in Portland in 1908.

Women's professional sports: All Girls Professional Baseball Team, 1943; Ladies Professional Golf, 1953; Professional Women's Bowling, 1959.

Women not allowed to fly a jet? The blurb itself admits that the candidates were pilots. However, for the record, in 1944, Ann Baumgartner was the first woman to fly an experimental jet plane; and in 1953, Jacqueline Cochran broke the sound barrier.

And I can't even begin to figure out how to address the claim that women could not rent cars in 1961. Does anyone know if this is true?

I am weary of the petty bureaucracy, staffed by morons, that we call the school system cramming agendas down the throats of children in the name of education. So I thought I would turn over this rock and post it here.

[chuck_the_tv_out]

Have you tried getting onto your local school board? Leftists do, that’s why the kids get that stuff

[cripplecreek]

The Chuck Yeager autobiography is one of my favorite books so Jackie Cochran was one of my first thoughts.

[esquirette]

In 1982 Maas Brothers wouldn’t give me a credit card in my own name. Ten years before I went to law school they did not accept women. There have been some changes.

[Amberdawn]

I think that the idea of women having these careers was largely derided at that time, though SOME did work professionally. I know that my mother was fired from her job in 1959 when she announced she was pregnant. There is a lot of politics involved in these stories and you are right to question their ‘facts’.

[Dr. Sivana]

In early 20th century P.G. Wodehouse, the thoughtless Bobbie Wickham was a professional ladies’ tennis player. Jeeves did not approve.

[nevergore]

Leftists don’t work that’s why.....

[calex59]

And I can't even begin to figure out how to address the claim that women could not rent cars in 1961. Does anyone know if this is true?

All of the claims are false but the above is the most outrageous. Certainly women could rent a car in 1961, and way before that. All they needed was a drivers license and the money to pay for it.

[a fool in paradise]

Revisionist history. It’s good enough for the Communist Party.

“Women’s Day” is an international Communist holiday.

[org.whodat]

And I can't even begin to figure out how to address the claim that women could not rent cars in 1961. Does anyone know if this is true?

Back in those days they only had rental business at large airports. Hell the first time I ever rented a car would have been in the mid seventies.

[a fool in paradise]

Babe Didrikson excelled in a lot of sports (fair at Tennis but more known for other endevours)

http://www.babedidriksonzaharias.org/achievements.cfm

Historical revisionists do nobody any favors when they deny the accomplishments of others to make their hyperbole “no one ever before” sound so good. “If it wasn’t for...”

[detective]

The book sounds like politically correct disinformation. However, the program it refers to was organized by Jackie Cochran. She had been in charge of women pilots during WWII and had broken the sound barrier in 1953.

In the 1960s, Cochran was a sponsor of the Mercury 13 program, an early effort to test the ability of women to be astronauts. Thirteen women pilots passed the same preliminary tests as the male astronauts of the Mercury program before the program was canceled. It was never a NASA initiative, though it was spearheaded by two members of the NASA Life Sciences Committee, one of whom, Dr. W. Randolph Lovelace II, was a close friend of Cochran and her husband. Though Cochran initially supported the program, she was later responsible for delaying further phases of testing, and letters from her to members of the Navy and NASA expressing concern over whether or not the program was to be run properly and in accordance with NASA goals may have significantly contributed to the eventual cancellation of the program.

Congress held hearings to determine whether or not the exclusion of women from the astronaut program was discriminatory, during which John Glenn and Scott Carpenter testified against admitting women to the astronaut program. Cochran herself argued against bringing women into the space program, saying that time was of the essence, and moving forward as planned was the only way to beat the Soviets in the Space Race.

[mnehring]

I can't even begin to figure out how to address the claim that women could not rent cars in 1961.

I have a feeling this may be tough to verify but I have found some very old Hertz advertisements that actually catered to women. Based on the look of the car, this may be in the early 60s (old Mercury Monterey?).

I did find this old article from 1953 that describes a car accident in which the woman rented the car.
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10712F83D5B107A93C6A8178DD85F478585F9

This old article describes a woman renting a car and driving to New York in 1941.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=QfcuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=s9sFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4963,607103&dq=first+woman+to+rent+a+car&hl=e

Finally, this ad from 1925 says any man or woman can rent a car from them and they'll teach them to drive in minutes.
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/chicagotribune/access/449055432.html?dids=449055432:449055432&FMT=CITE&FMTS=CITE:AI&type=historic&date=Apr+25%2C+1925&author=&pub=Chicago+Tribune&desc=Display+Ad+5+--+No+Title&pqatl=google

[forgotten man]

The car in the Hertz ad looks like a 1961 Chevy Impala.

[Liberty Ship]

Thanks. And here is a link to other ads, including a Hertz endorsement from Ester Williams in 1958. (Scroll down, bottom left for the most legible version.)

http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/search?q=Hertz&page=7

So, everything the Fulton County Board of Education posted was untrue. Q.E.D.

[The Great RJ]

An even worse oppression of women exists today in Muslim countries. Women are not able to drive cars, hold jobs, go in public without a male escort and forced to dress in burquas. In places like Iran and Saudi Arabia women are flogged or hanged for innocent flirtation or for having the misfortune of being a rape victim. This is the kind of oppression of women that high school kids should be taught exists instead of the PC crap.

[wintertime]

Have you tried getting onto your local school board? Leftists do, that’s why the kids get that stuff
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The solution is to abolish all school boards. Privatize all K-12 education. Close down all the government schools. Sell the building and lands. And...Throw every school employee out of work and into the free market.

What run for school board? You are kidding, right?

In the last two counties in which we have lived the school district is the single largest employer, with the most employees, and largest payroll, in the county. No other business comes even close! Then add to this **HUGE** and influential and highly organized group of people all the vendors who supply the schools and their employees. Even my dentist and his five employees depend in the school dental insurance that comes into his office.

The only people who win school board elections are those who hold the NEA imprimatur.

[Oldpuppymax]

Yeah. And it was also the women’s vote that put Hussein in the White House. Maybe that’s why they call it “suffrage.” We’re sure as hell suffering for it now!

[astyanax]

I'm sure it's just a typo.
They meant 1861.
;)

[Liberty Ship]

Yes, the clear message from the Fulton County School System is that you would be better off as a woman in Iran or Saudi Arabia today than you would have been in the United States in 1961 where you couldn’t even rent a car.

[astyanax]

At the bottom of the list I did see Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the Rings.
I'll give them some credit for including those.

[EDINVA]

It would depend on where one applies for either a credit card or admission to law school.

I’m not familiar with Mass Brothers, but my first credit card was issued by Garfinckels in Washington DC in 1966. It could also be used at a number of other local department store chains that existed then (Woodward & Lothrup, Raleighs, Hechts, etc). Later in the 60s I got Lord & Taylor, Carte Blanche and Amex. That was long before 1982.

My husband’s former mother-in-law graduated from GW’s law school (also in DC) back in the 1930s. The Ivies didn’t admit women at all till @ 1970, so those that have law schools (other than Cornell which was always coed) would have denied women admission before then.

[RebelTXRose]

Did they OFFER cars for rent then? If not, NOBODY could rent them!

[Nepeta]

These claims are all hogwash.

However, in 1961 (and for some years after) it was legal to pay women less than a man for exactly the same job; jobs were listed under "men" and "women"; and it was also perfectly legal to ask married women when they planned to have children. (Housing ads in newspapers were listed under "white" and "black".)

Different times, but it is important to remember the truth of those times, and not nonsense about women not flying jets or renting cars.

[esquirette]

I would say my experience was the rule and not the exception, just based upon my own observations, few of which I remember or document. I am certainly not a crusader or angry feminist by any means. I went to law school to take care of myself in a better job than say, teaching or nursing.

[chuck_the_tv_out]

I think you’d be surprised what some effort could accomplish.

Privatizing education isn’t going to happen in the foreseeable future.

The minute you assume you will lose elections is when you definitely will lose them

[wintertime]

I think you’d be surprised what some effort could accomplish.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well?...Then why not use that effort to abolish government schooling? The minute you assume you assume something is impossible then it definitely is impossible.

By the way, have you seen those videos of parents standing in long long lines waiting for the lottery for charter schools? Have you seen the crying parents and children who have lost their chance to escape the government school concentration camps? Surely, there are parents who are ripe for change.

Solution #1: Vouchers, tax credits, and charters could be used to build the infrastructure needed for full privatization. Teachers and principals would be allowed to move to charter status as has happened with Green Dot charter schools in California. Gradually the amount of the vouchers would be reduced, and parents would be expected to take on the full responsibility of educating their own children. Tax credits would fund the poorest. MASSIVE tax reductions would accompany the privatization of K-12 education.

Solution #2: Private conservative education foundations would be formed by wealthy conservatives. The foundations would offer grants to teachers willing to open one-room schools in their homes or small rented spaces. The foundations would certify the teacher, approve the curriculum, test the students, run community-wide sports and arts programs, and organize more complex science labs. The foundations would organize the parents to lobby for complete shut down of government K-12 schools and MASSIVE tax reductions.

[chuck_the_tv_out]

Nice ideas - it’s good you’ve given it some thought.

So what’s step 1?

[stylecouncilor]

LOL!

[Mears]

bfl

[RightField]

Remember, I Am Woman, Hear Me Roar" ?

In 1976, I was 8.75 months pregnant during my final exams in grad school. One male professor had a fit when I sat down to take the exam ... he made a big deal of moving me to the front of the room, right by the front door, so the "ambulance attendants" wouldn't have to disturb too much of the class if I went into labor during the exam.

Then, in 1979, my manager at work told me that the reason I didn't get paid the same as the two males in exactly the same position as mine was because they had families to support and wives who stayed home. There were witnesses in the room when he said this ... ha!

I went to the EEOC after the 1979 incident, and end up getting quite a bit of back pay, plus many of the women in the company got a raise as a result. (The company's main revenue came from Federal government contracts!)

[x]

Most likely, she's talking about piloting commercial passenger jets, like 707s.

Nothing prevented a woman from getting a pilots license and flying a plane, but think back to those days. Pilots for the big commercial airlines were invariably men.

There were woman pilots in WWII, but Barbara Allen Rainey is given credit for being the first female pilot in the US military (1974) -- not even a footnote for those women thirty years before.

Similarly Emily Hanrahan Howell Warner gets credit for being the first woman hired as a pilot by a major airline (1973), even though she and other women had been flying planes for years before that.

Maybe it's not so much the political correctness that gets on people's nerves. It's the inaccuracy, the sloppy use of language and sloppy thinking, that so often goes with it.

[wintertime]

So what’s step 1?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Push for very **small** voucher or tax credit programs aimed at very narrow and highly defined groups such as those in failing schools or the disabled. Then gradually broaden the definition of “failing school” or “disabled” and begin to increase the number of vouchers and charters.

Why are **small** programs necessary? Well...Look what happened in Utah. The legislature passed a sweeping voucher bill that covered all children. The NEA went nuts and managed to have a statewide referendum and had the bill repealed. ( I think the residents of that state were a little freaked by so much rapid change and also feared it would mean higher taxes.)

So...What did Utah do? It passed a very small voucher program that was not well funded aimed at the “disabled”. Of course ( wink, wink) “disabled” included reading disabilities ( nearly half the kids in the state, for whom there was not enough voucher money). Since the voucher program was poorly funded only a limited number of kids got the voucher. Utah also allowed a limited number of charters.

As a result, parents saw that some kids on their block were getting vouchers and going to great private schools and charters and their kids weren't. Now the pressure is on to **increase** the voucher funding and the number of charters. Well!...Who would’a guessed that would happen? ( wink wink) ;-)

The next step is to allow teachers to turn their government school into charters. This has happened in Los Angeles with the Green Dot charters.

Gradually, year by year, increase the amount of vouchers, tax credits, and charters.

When most children are attending private voucher schools and charters, then make all government schools charters. Then make the charters voucher schools.

At this point, it is time to gradually expect parents to take on more and more responsibility for paying for their **own** child's tuition with vouchers and tax credits for the poorest only.

In an ideal world, all education would be privately paid for by the parents and charity would pay for the poorest.

Do I think this is possible? Yep! I do!

One more thing: All sports, music, theater, and art programs should **gradually** ( little by little so as not to scare the public) be turned over to the counties departments of recreation. A lot of “rah rah” support is generated for the local school because of the sports and arts programs. The umbilical tying these programs to the government schools needs to be **CUT**!

[Amberdawn]

I’m glad to hear you fought back and won. The people who fired my mom probably thought the same about her pregnancy-That she would get hurt on the job or be unable to do her duties. She worked in a furniture store. One reason my parents had to forego a bigger house and property was because they didn’t, or wouldn’t, count my mother’s salary in considering a mortgage. My Dad still complains bitterly about this to this day.

[chuck_the_tv_out]

Sounds very good. You obviously know a lot about it. I agree now it seems like a much more long term solution than trying to play their game.

I bet there are a thousand genuinely motivated people on this board. And we could accomplish great things if we worked together.

For so many years I’ve seen great ideas come and go, but nothing really changes, for that old cliche reason - conservatives have jobs. And a lot are even working 6 days a week. For me, I have to work 7 days a week to get the grades I want.

[reformedliberal]

In 1964, at 7 months pregnant, I was asked to take leave because they didn’t have insurance to cover pregnant women. I _could_ have had my job back. I didn’t want it. I was paid as much as the men with the same position and many of them resented that.

There was no EEOC.

I also recall that I could not get credit on my own, even though I was working. Even a store credit card depended on a co-signature from my husband and was based on his income.

I was young and we all just accepted that this was the way things were.

[astyanax]

Kudos! Well said and well thought out.
There is very little reason your plan would not receive broad bipartisan support.
After all, it’s “for the children”...
;)