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Elementary Teacher Charged with Sex With 12 Year Old Boy
WOAI ^ | 8/1/10 | Jim Forsyth

Posted on 08/02/2010 7:13:54 AM PDT by laotzu

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To: xsmommy

:)


141 posted on 08/03/2010 11:55:08 AM PDT by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: Hegewisch Dupa

Thank you. May God bless you as well. :)


142 posted on 08/03/2010 11:57:46 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: wagglebee; GladesGuru
"Yes, some children will be beaten, seduced, raped, even killed. But, given that government intervention is worse - perhaps we must rely on family and neighbors, and church members.[GladesGuru]

"This better than just about any post on FR demonstrates how sick, dangerous and evil the libertarian agenda is".[wagglebee]

GladesGuru is in no way accurately reflecting libertarian principles. Even libertarians admit that one of the primary functions of government is to protect individual rights.

143 posted on 08/03/2010 12:15:21 PM PDT by Durus (The People have abdicated our duties and anxiously hopes for just two things, "Bread and Circuses")
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To: Durus

“In case you are otherwise unclear if one advocates overturning consent laws that protect children from pedophiles then you are supporting pedophilia. It is really that simple.”

Only to the simple is your argument “that simple”, and somehow I suspect you are anything but simple minded.

My argument with the age of consent laws is based upon the clear and unambiguous fact that a “one age suits all” law from a large and distant government is hardly likely to produce as valid a decision as a decision made by the young person and the parents.

Had the laws been written with a parental consent exception, I would agree with you regarding such laws. Indeed, I was curious as to whether anyone else would raise the issue of parental authority being recognized by such a clause.

If the parents are the supreme authority over their minor children, then age of consent laws must have a clause allowing the parents to give consent for their child to engage in a sexual relationship.

If, on the other hand, the state is the supreme authority in the family, then age of consent laws need no such clause recognizing parental final authority.

Which do you think best for American families and the republic?

My apologies, as I incorrectly assumed that my question was implicit in my posts.


144 posted on 08/03/2010 12:22:26 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: Durus; GladesGuru; metmom; BykrBayb; trisham; Abathar; manc; Responsibility2nd
GladesGuru is in no way accurately reflecting libertarian principles. Even libertarians admit that one of the primary functions of government is to protect individual rights.

I think that a great many libertarians actually hate the very idea of government and the rule of law.

Libertarians (especially on FR) love to quote Ronald Reagan's 1975 Reason Magazine interview; however, they conveniently excerpt his entire statement [added emphasis is mine]:

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals–if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

Now, I can’t say that I will agree with all the things that the present group who call themselves Libertarians in the sense of a party say, because I think that like in any political movement there are shades, and there are libertarians who are almost over at the point of wanting no government at all or anarchy. I believe there are legitimate government functions. There is a legitimate need in an orderly society for some government to maintain freedom or we will have tyranny by individuals. The strongest man on the block will run the neighborhood. We have government to insure that we don’t each one of us have to carry a club to defend ourselves. But again, I stand on my statement that I think that libertarianism and conservatism are travelling the same path.


145 posted on 08/03/2010 12:26:34 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Celerity
In other words, it is (in my opinion) criminal to engage in sexual activity with ANYONE who is too young to make sound decisions - In my observation, those below the age of 25.

Are you nuts? By the time I was 25 I was out of college, owned a home and two cars and had been married for years but I was too young to have sex with my then 23 year old wife?

I would have to say your opinion on this issue is pretty lame.

146 posted on 08/03/2010 12:38:26 PM PDT by Eaker (Pablo is very wily)
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To: GladesGuru
My argument with the age of consent laws is based upon the clear and unambiguous fact that a “one age suits all” law from a large and distant government is hardly likely to produce as valid a decision as a decision made by the young person and the parents.

No law is perfect, that is why we have a legal system, however I have yet to be presented with a clear and unambiguous age of consent law that is "one size fits all". In my state, the age of consent for heterosexual activity is 16. For homosexual activity, the age of consent is 18. One must be 18 years old to marry without parental consent. Girls aged 13 to 17 and boys aged 14 to 17 may be married only with their parent’s consent. Girls younger than 13 and boys younger than 14 are not allowed to be married. This covers your requirement of parental consent. However you will notice that in no possible example can sex between a 38 year old woman and a 12 year old boy be deemed legal and that was the topic at hand. Defending this particular act is what has put you in the indefensible position as being a female pedophile apologist. What the age of consent laws are in your state?

147 posted on 08/03/2010 12:44:08 PM PDT by Durus (The People have abdicated our duties and anxiously hopes for just two things, "Bread and Circuses")
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To: wagglebee

You posted:
“You are actually suggesting that letting childred be BEATEN, RAPED AND KILLED is preferable to the government having laws to prevent it.”

I posted no such thing.

What I did post, and at some length, was that at least in Florida, government intervention in abusive situations resulted in more abuse.

There are some things which government can’t do. Preventing evil seems to be one such thing. Preventing child abuse by government taking custody of the abused child has been tried - and those programs produced more abuse.

Please do not attack me because I bring bad news. As a matter of fact, I spent many weeks, and thousands of dollars trying to help a woman keep her child after the state filed a felony level child abuse charge against her because one of the state wild beasts nearly killed the child.

A Harvard educated plastic surgeon friend of mine contributed over $15,000 of professional time trying to point out to the goobers that the mother was incapable of causing such wounds.

That boy suffered, in addition to the physical wounds, such things as being deprived of his mother when critically ill, then forced into a foster home where he had to call the black woman running the home “Mom”.

His birth mother was white. Talk about confusing a 3.5 year old!

The sad fact is that state custodial care is filled with violent, and/or sexually predatory “clients” who then beat or rape other “clients”.

Sorry, but government has proven that it can not prevent it.

I raised this disturbing failure of government because I hoped to start a discussion as to how something productive could be found.

Got ideas?


148 posted on 08/03/2010 12:45:02 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: GladesGuru

I get it now.

Your liber(al)tarian position is that “goobermint” (how puerile!) has no right to enact any laws governing children at all, since they apparently “belong” to the parents sort of like possessions.

So if the parents think the child is ready to have sex at 12, the “goobermint” has no say in the matter. Or at an even earlier age, I guess.

Since liber(al)tarians also want prostitution legal, I wonder if your position holds that money can change hands when these 12 year olds have sex with 30 year olds.


149 posted on 08/03/2010 12:47:42 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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Oops - 38 year olds.


150 posted on 08/03/2010 12:48:19 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: wagglebee

I miss him very much.


151 posted on 08/03/2010 12:50:49 PM PDT by Durus (The People have abdicated our duties and anxiously hopes for just two things, "Bread and Circuses")
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To: GladesGuru; metmom; BykrBayb; trisham; Abathar; manc; Responsibility2nd
You posted: “You are actually suggesting that letting childred be BEATEN, RAPED AND KILLED is preferable to the government having laws to prevent it.”

I posted no such thing.

Actually, that is EXACTLY what you posted in post #122. Here, let me refresh your memory:

Yes, some children will be beaten, seduced, raped, even killed. But, given that government intervention is worse

The libertarian solution ALWAYS seems to be to look for an excuse to remove laws and your rationalization is among the sickest.

There are some things which government can’t do. Preventing evil seems to be one such thing. Preventing child abuse by government taking custody of the abused child has been tried - and those programs produced more abuse.

~snip~

The sad fact is that state custodial care is filled with violent, and/or sexually predatory “clients” who then beat or rape other “clients”.

Sorry, but government has proven that it can not prevent it.

So, you want to take a single extreme incident and remove all laws protecting children. Typical libertarian anarchist.

152 posted on 08/03/2010 12:53:27 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Durus

“Defending this particular act is what has put you in the indefensible position as being a female pedophile apologist.”

Sorry, but again you confuse questioning the factual basis of the “damage” with my being a female pedophile apologist.

Given that I live near Miami, home territory of one Janet Reno, who was filmed in bed with a 15 year old female, and that said film was known to many in the law field and the rest of the community, and given my rejection of just about all Reno believed or did, to try to call me a female pedophile apologist crosses the line from the subtle to the ridiculous.

My previous question remains unanswered. Should the parents or the state be the final authority as to when a child is to have sex, and with whom?

I asked this question in this form because under western law, from Moses through Jesus time, including the Roman period, the child was legally the chattel of the father.

Liberalism effectively made the father responsible for the child but usurped his authority.

By the way, “deemed legal” sounds rather like “deemed passed”.

My question remains unanswered: Should the parents have the final deciding authority as to the age of first intercourse, and with whom said intercourse occurs - or should the state?

Since we agree that the present system leaves much to be desired, what should be? Note I asked what should be, not waht is presently legal.

That, to me, is important. ‘Specially in a post Obama period.


153 posted on 08/03/2010 1:00:55 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: little jeremiah

Since liber(al)tarians also want prostitution legal, I wonder if your position holds that money can change hands when these 12 year olds have sex with 30 year olds.”

Arf, Arf, ARF! I think I hear the sounds of straw dogs baying.

;-)

If we can stick to the subject, specifically, “Who should decide?”


154 posted on 08/03/2010 1:06:04 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: wagglebee

Libertarians are ruining this website.
 
I've long called on Jim Robinson to take a bugzapper stand and clean it up He won't. I guess the donations from the libs are more important than conservative values.

155 posted on 08/03/2010 1:08:30 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (PALIN/MCCAIN IN 2012 - barf alert? sarc tag? -- can't decide)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Wait until next year when the libertarians are once again pushing Ron Paul for president.


156 posted on 08/03/2010 1:10:43 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: GladesGuru; little jeremiah; metmom; BykrBayb; trisham; Abathar; manc; Responsibility2nd
Arf, Arf, ARF! I think I hear the sounds of straw dogs baying.

You're joking right? You acknowledged that under your the policy you prefer "some children will be beaten, seduced, raped, even killed," but you accuse someone of making a strawman by asking about child prostitution?

Are you saying that you OPPOSE laws against prostitution?

157 posted on 08/03/2010 1:16:17 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

I am trying to maintain some humor, a tad difficult after some of the erroneous attacks, the argumentium ad homenium replies, ad nauseam.

Not owning a whore house, not even a “ho” house, I never really considered the issue. I would assume the legality of prostitution to be a matter for the local community, as clearly the Constitution says nothing about it.

Once again, very slowly (yes, I am trying to inject a bit of humor) - “Given that government has proven that it can not reduce child abuse by passing laws, what next?”


158 posted on 08/03/2010 1:30:49 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: Durus

I just realized the faulty premise in your “In case you are otherwise unclear if one advocates overturning consent laws that protect children from pedophiles then you are supporting pedophilia. It is really that simple.”

There are lots of laws regarding pedophilia, but Chester the Molester still exists.

What does this tell us about the efficacy of those laws?

My question regarding what should comes after the present failure mode set of laws is hardly a red herring.

The present system is in failure mode. What next?


159 posted on 08/03/2010 1:37:53 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: GladesGuru; little jeremiah; metmom; BykrBayb; trisham; Abathar; manc; Responsibility2nd
I am trying to maintain some humor,

There's really nothing funny about opposing laws that protect children.

a tad difficult after some of the erroneous attacks, the argumentium ad homenium replies, ad nauseam.

What exactly do you expect on a conservative forum when you are advocating a policy where "some children will be beaten, seduced, raped, even killed"?

Not owning a whore house, not even a “ho” house, I never really considered the issue. I would assume the legality of prostitution to be a matter for the local community, as clearly the Constitution says nothing about it.

So, communities should be allowed to outlaw prostitution, but "government intervention is worse" than laws which protect children from being molested and murdered?

Once again, very slowly (yes, I am trying to inject a bit of humor) - “Given that government has proven that it can not reduce child abuse by passing laws, what next?”

I can assure you that ANY SOLUTION that involves liberals and libertarians will be a disaster.

160 posted on 08/03/2010 1:39:18 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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