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Glenn Beck Accused Redcoats of Burning Churches ("VANITY")
N/A | 8/28/2010 | Me

Posted on 08/28/2010 7:51:41 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel

I didn't see any comments about Glenn Beck's 1st words on his Friday TV show.

He talked about the "Black Robe Regiment", and said that Brits largely blamed churches/preachers for fomenting the Revolution.

Then he said as a result, when the Redcoats came here upon the war starting, they burned churches because of this. Then he said they even "locked up people inside and burned them".


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; History; Military/Veterans; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: americanhistory; americanrevolution; beck; churchburning; glennbeck
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Where is Beck getting this? I'm just a casual lay "fan" of the AmRevWar, but I've never seen any reference to Redcoats particularly burning churches, and certainly not with people inside.

Is he believing the "Patriot" scenario?

I'm not saying a few of these couldn't have happened - but a regular "campaign" of sorts to burn churches, especially with civilians there?

Does anyone have salient comments on this?

I hope he's not getting...unreliable.

1 posted on 08/28/2010 7:51:43 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel
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To: Pharmboy

If any RevWar people can enlighten me on this point, I’d appreciate it.


2 posted on 08/28/2010 7:53:12 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

I know it happened in the battle of Bround Brook. Read the journal of Johann Ewald. British Major John Simcoe burned the Dutch Reformed Church.


3 posted on 08/28/2010 7:56:24 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: the OlLine Rebel

You need to have watched his Friday Glenn Beck Show.....can probably be found via the internet.


4 posted on 08/28/2010 7:57:20 AM PDT by cranked
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To: the OlLine Rebel

Let me ask the obvious... where did you attend school?

Beck has had guests for weeks who have brought evidence of history that we were never taught in school. It is all documented, and he even shows the books and interviewed the authors.


5 posted on 08/28/2010 7:58:07 AM PDT by TommyDale (Independent - I already left the GOP because they were too liberal)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

I think that Beck took a scene from Mel Gibson’s fictionalized “The Patriot” as true. There is no evidence that the British burned American churches during the Revolution. Beck’s larger point — the hostility of the British to American religious freedom — is well-founded though. For example, in New York, the British seized non-Anglican churches and used them as barracks and prisons during the Revolution.


6 posted on 08/28/2010 8:01:41 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: the OlLine Rebel

You really need to read history. Burning churches happened all over the place during the Revolutionary war.

If you’re not into reading boring history texts, you might watch Mel Gibson’s “The Patriot”, it’s in there too.


7 posted on 08/28/2010 8:02:01 AM PDT by Ripliancum ("As He died to make men holy, let us live to make men free")
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To: LS

ping


8 posted on 08/28/2010 8:04:18 AM PDT by KansasGirl (No, I do not proofread.)
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To: Rockingham
There is no evidence that the British burned American churches during the Revolution.

Where do you get that from? In addition to the very famous Bround Brook incident, the Scots actually called the American Revolution the "Presbyterian Revolution" because the British, early on, burned over 50 Presbyterian churches. "To the privations, hardships and cruelties of the war the Presbyterians were pre-eminently exposed. In them the very essence of rebellion was supposed to be concentrated, and by the wanton plunderings and excesses of the marauding parties they suffered severely. Their Presbyterianism was prima facie evidence of guilt. A house that had a large Bible and David’s Psalms in meter in it was supposed, as a matter of course, to be tenanted by rebels." - W.P. Breed, Episcopalian minister in Philadelphia

9 posted on 08/28/2010 8:04:50 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: the OlLine Rebel

Look up the British Raid on Danbury. Oh, wait — let me do it for you. They burned several churches, at least one was Episcopalian. However, they did not burn the Anglican church.

http://www.skyweb.net/~channy/danraid.html


10 posted on 08/28/2010 8:04:54 AM PDT by TommyDale (Independent - I already left the GOP because they were too liberal)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

I suspect there is some anti-Beck bias here. Get over it, folks.


11 posted on 08/28/2010 8:06:29 AM PDT by TommyDale (Independent - I already left the GOP because they were too liberal)
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To: Rockingham

Not so. The burnings happened. Here’s just a couple of examples, there are many more:

“This beautiful church was built in 1745 as the church of Prince William Parish. It was burned by the British in May 1779. “
http://www.gloryway.com/old_sheldon_church.htm

“Red House Presbyterian Church... The first building, one of three successive wooden frame structures, was burned in 1781 by British soldiers during the Revolutionary War.”
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ncccha/memoranda/churches/redhousechurch/redhousechurch.html


12 posted on 08/28/2010 8:06:34 AM PDT by Ripliancum ("As He died to make men holy, let us live to make men free")
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To: All
"Nor was this an isolated incident; throughout the northern Colonies, dissident churches were systematically abused. The Presbyterian church at Newtown, Long Island, had its steeple sawed off, and was used as a prison and guardhouse. Later, it was torn down completely, and its boards used for the construction of soldier huts. In New Jersey, the church at Princeton was stripped of its pews and gallery for fuel, and the churches at Elizabeth and Mount Holly were burned. In New York City, the Presbyterian churches were made into prisons, or used by British officers for stabling their horses." Many Presbyterian ministers lost their homes and property. Bancroft describes one incident, "One Huck, a captain of British militia, fired [i.e. "set aflame"] the library and dwelling-house of the clergy man at William’s plantation in the upper part of South Carolina, and burned every Bible into which the Scotch Irsh translation of the psalms was bound." - Boettner, op. cit., p. 384
13 posted on 08/28/2010 8:07:37 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: the OlLine Rebel

The British burned entire cities, so yes, they certainly did burn churches.


14 posted on 08/28/2010 8:07:50 AM PDT by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

From what I’ve read, most atrocities against the colonists where perpetrated in what was then the west by the British indian allies, presumably with English approval.


15 posted on 08/28/2010 8:09:05 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: the OlLine Rebel
Maybe the “Patriot” writers were reliving a Nazi church burning in France.
Beck should find of interest the treatment after the war of those who remained loyal to the British crown. Not everyone felt the revolution was the best thing to have take place.
16 posted on 08/28/2010 8:09:13 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: mnehring

With the people inside?


17 posted on 08/28/2010 8:10:13 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Pharmboy
Those wily British. :')
Google

18 posted on 08/28/2010 8:10:35 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Democratic Underground... matters are worse, as their latest fund drive has come up short...)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

Don’t think that war back then was genteel. The French and Indian War and Pontiac’s Rebellion, just before the Revolution, were insanely murderous affairs, with no quarter and butchery of the wounded, sometimes of women and children who were not enslaved. And many of the participants in the Revolution were veterans of those events.

Beck probably got his idea from the movie The Patriot, which depicted an occupied church being burned (itself based on a WWII event), but otherwise there is no documented Revolutionary War case of that. This is not to say that there weren’t plenty of other war crimes on both sides - mostly shooting of enemy soldiers who wanted to surrender.


19 posted on 08/28/2010 8:11:23 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: the OlLine Rebel
Found these two Churches.

A Dutch reformed Church was burned in the Battle of Bound Brook

http://www.njskylands.com/hsBoundBrook.htm

October 28 * British Major John Simcoe leads raid through Elizabethtown to Bound Brook burning the Dutch Reformed Church and Court House at Millstone (then called Somerset Court House), an unsuccessful attempt to draw the militia into an ambush.

Another Church on the same web site mentioned:
“James Buckmeter
16 Aug 2009, 19:10
My ancestor, Matthias Wade was in the Essex militia and participated in the battle of Springfield, one of the last revolutionary battles. One result of the battle was the burning of the church (Connecticut Farms) and the loss of church records, including Wade family history. There were apparently two Wade family members between Benjamin (the original Wade) and Matthias, but records for them are quite confusing since they apparently had the same names, married women with same names and had children with same names. Benjamin and Matthias are well documented though.
I learn a little more year to year. “

20 posted on 08/28/2010 8:13:02 AM PDT by FR_addict
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To: count-your-change

That probably referred to the William’s plantation incident, albeit, it was Hollywood’ed up by Gibson. In the William’s plantation incident (noted above) the church, library, and residence were all burned with the family and they made a bonfire of Bibles that had the Scot-Irish translations.


21 posted on 08/28/2010 8:13:23 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: the OlLine Rebel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banastre_Tarleton

Education is your friend. The Wikipedia article has cited sources. Read them and then come back.


22 posted on 08/28/2010 8:13:47 AM PDT by Shanty Shaker
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To: the OlLine Rebel

A church in Midway, GA, was burned by the British. It’s mentioned on the Midway page of Wiki >>>

Established in 1752, the Midway Congregational Church building was destroyed during the Revolutionary War. British in the area burned it, but it was rebuilt.

There are numerous references to it elsewhere.

There’s this:
http://www.nyfreedom.com/trinitychurch.htm

and this:
http://www.discoversouthcarolina.com/products/3460.aspx

BTW, the colonists burned at least one Anglican church during the Revolution, and others were collateral damage as the British burned entire towns.

Long before the revolution, the British burned or destroyed many Catholic missions in Florida, including St. Augustine (1702).

Not an expert, but hope this helps.


23 posted on 08/28/2010 8:16:00 AM PDT by WestTexasWend
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To: TommyDale
Let me ask the obvious... where did you attend school?

But.. but.. publicmic schoolschizzles taught me that the British were all classy and honorable and the Americans were rebellious savages. /sarc

24 posted on 08/28/2010 8:18:10 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: the OlLine Rebel

I’m a historian of the period.
The British blaming church leaders for fomenting revolution is true.
The church burnings did happen, the most famous being during Simcoe’s 1779 raid on Bound (not Bround) Brook, NJ.
The claim that the British locked up Americans in the burning churches—that happened in the movie “The Patriot”, but I’m still trying to verify that.


25 posted on 08/28/2010 8:20:54 AM PDT by CivilWarguy
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To: skeeter

I guess the Indians were wearing Red Coats, too.


26 posted on 08/28/2010 8:21:08 AM PDT by TommyDale (Independent - I already left the GOP because they were too liberal)
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To: mnehring

I stand corrected on those particulars. Nevertheless, these were limited examples and not part of a general policy — as the wide scale survival through the Revolution of most colonial era churches indicates.


27 posted on 08/28/2010 8:22:19 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Ripliancum

I stand corrected on those particulars. Nevertheless, these were limited examples and not part of a general policy — as the wide scale survival through the Revolution of most colonial era churches indicates.


28 posted on 08/28/2010 8:22:56 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: CivilWarguy

The British atrocities depicted in “The Patriot” were actually carried out and then some by the barbaric Binastre Tarleton, who unfortunately would later die in bed of old age.


29 posted on 08/28/2010 8:25:42 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("O Muslim! My bullets are dipped in pig grease!")
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To: CivilWarguy

Certainly the incident in ‘The Patriot’ was lifted wholesale from Oradour-sur-Glane, 1944.


30 posted on 08/28/2010 8:26:16 AM PDT by agere_contra (...what if we won't eat the dog food?)
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To: mnehring

The Presbyterian Church at Bound Brook was not burned at the Battle of Bound Brook NJ in 1777 but as you mentioned correctly the Dutch Church at Van Veghten’s Bridge (2 miles west of Bound Brook) was burned by Simcoe’s Raiders in the fall of 1779 (they claimed that they found stored in the church, harness’ and other equipment belonging to the Continental Army). Simcoe also ordered the burning of the Somerset Court House (about 5 miles sw of Bound Brook) because he claimed that he found a mistreated Tory prisoner in the jail.

British troops did heavily damage the church at Somerset Court House (now the village of Millstone) in December 1776. They used much of the structural wood and siding to build huts that they expected to live in during the winter but which they never used since they evacuated the town immediately after the Battle of Trenton NJ


31 posted on 08/28/2010 8:27:23 AM PDT by XRdsRev (New Jersey - Crossroads of the American Revolution)
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To: WestTexasWend

Correction:
Meant to post the Trinity Church (NY) link under the “collateral damage” remark.

In its place should’ve been:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Presbyterian_Church

(The belief that colonists hid gunpowder/arms in churches, true or not, is often cited as the reason they were burned.)


32 posted on 08/28/2010 8:28:26 AM PDT by WestTexasWend
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To: the OlLine Rebel

read some history books, Benjamin Franklin’s book talks about this and worse!


33 posted on 08/28/2010 8:29:21 AM PDT by Jewels1091
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To: mnehring
You raise an interesting point---one that my friend Dave Dougherty has been making to me for a few weeks---that in many ways the American Revolution was a Scots-Irish revolution against the Brits. Almost 1/3 of the generals and top officers were Scots Irish, and New England was actually disproportionately NOT as well represented as a % of population.

I knew some incidents of burning churches happened, but I hadn't put two and two together.

34 posted on 08/28/2010 8:30:07 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: the OlLine Rebel
On CSPAN I just saw a guy in the crowd wearing a paper hat. You just know that the pic will be all over MSM claiming that Beck caters to people with paper hats.
35 posted on 08/28/2010 8:30:57 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: Rockingham

“the wide scale survival through the Revolution of most colonial era churches indicates.”

I would think so, too. I’ve gone to historic sites all my life (including obscure) and I can’t recall too many church-burnings from the RevWar. Certainly not “on purpose” as in, “we’ll get your churches.”

But there is interesting info here. I guess I get so bogged down in the “order of battle” part I miss some of the more general “social” aspects of it.


36 posted on 08/28/2010 8:31:01 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

British captives on Braddock’s march/massacre were burned alive.


37 posted on 08/28/2010 8:31:04 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: the OlLine Rebel

It is obvious that the British did not always fight like the gentlemen you have seen depicted in movies, but committed atrocities of what would now be considered war crimes. I suspect that if anyone other than Glenn Beck had mentioned this, it would have gone without comment.

So far, everything the left has objected to has not happened, and once again, Beck gets the last laugh. The mainstream media and the left have made fools of themselves, just as they did with the Shirley Sherrod incident. I find it amazing that such fear can be stirred by one man who has a genuine concern for the American spirit.


38 posted on 08/28/2010 8:35:45 AM PDT by TommyDale (Independent - I already left the GOP because they were too liberal)
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To: Ripliancum
If you’re not into reading boring history texts, you might watch Mel Gibson’s “The Patriot”, it’s in there too.

The trouble with "The Patriot" is that it distorts history, partly to make the "good guys" more PC, and partly to make the "bad guys" look bad without any regard to accuracy.

For instance, Francis Marion was a slaveowner, but you can't make a movie in 1999 with a "good guy" owning slaves, because that automatically makes him a "bad guy". (Disclaimer: I'm no expert in the analysis of PC groupthink.) So they make a fictional character that does not own slaves, although he does use colored help. Go figger.

Meanwhile, Col. Tavington, who is substituted for the real-life Banastre Tarleton, mostly does the same things, but with a couple of notable exceptions. Tarleton burned churches, and he burned houses with people inside, but never, as far as we know, a church with people inside. You may be sure that if that had happened, we would know about it. Tarleton's excesses were talked about everywhere, even preached about, and they were a major reason that South Carolina, which started the war with a large Tory base, turned fiercely Whig and chased Cornwallis northward with nothing to show for his time here.

The other difference I was thinking of between Tarleton and Tavington is that Tarleton didn't die in the war. Of course, in a movie the "bad guy" has to die; he can't survive, go home to Liverpool to a hero's welcome, get a seat in Parliament and live to be 78.

It's actually a good thing real life is not like the movies.

39 posted on 08/28/2010 8:36:54 AM PDT by thulldud (Is it "alter or abolish" time yet?)
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To: elcid1970; Shanty Shaker

I have never heard that a burning church - with civilians - was perpetrated by Banastre Tarleton.

I am quite aware of Butcher Tarleton and his antics with his loyalist dragoons, thank you.

As stated, I am a “fan” of the RevWar and I do wish people would give me the benefit of the doubt on this, rather than making sarcastic comments. Heck, even if I was a rube on the subject, a little more courtesy would be nice.


40 posted on 08/28/2010 8:37:54 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: Rockingham
The Brits regularly seized buildings and put troops in them. There were two reasons for that ~ the inhabitants or owners were gone, and there were really very few buildings in America.

This was a wild country even at that time ~ our Third Amendment prohibits the practice EXCEPT IN TIME OF WAR, which excused the Brits.

As far as burning churches down, there are instances of the Brits doing that, and in South Carolina they literally had a civil war going on with our people, patriots to the core, were up against OTHER civilians recently shipped in by the Brits ~ and all those old boys had bright red hair and gave no quarter.

For the most part the Brits did restrict themselves a bit and only burned down houses, barns and other buildings when there were suspected rebels inside ~ and when it came to churches, there's one instance of the scene shown in "The Patriot" ~ but, of course, there should have been none of that at all.

41 posted on 08/28/2010 8:38:40 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: count-your-change
The province of New Brunswick was created for the purpose of quartering Brits run out of America at the end of the war.

They, too, do American Revolution re-enactments, but from the "other side".

42 posted on 08/28/2010 8:42:12 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: CivilWarguy

I am trying to think where I read it -— it was a church in northern South Carolina -— and I think one of my ancestors was in the church. Or at least a woman of the same last name. In Draper’s ‘the Battle Of King’s Mountain’ perhaps? If i can find it later today I will let you know.


43 posted on 08/28/2010 8:44:17 AM PDT by squarebarb
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

I did indeed mention “the Patriot” in my comments. That’s part of what concerned me.

And being a casual student of the RevWar and the period, I’m pretty aware of how raw it could be. But not quite as bad as others think of it. There were “rules” generally, and often they were followed. I would never say overall they’d be at the level of a Moslem worldview, e.g. Yes, there was butchery, but not as a policy.


44 posted on 08/28/2010 8:47:45 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: CivilWarguy
If the Brits had burned the Old Yellow Church at Canajoharie along the Mohawk, they'd have locked up all the Americans they could find ~ but thankfully they didn't.

There was simultaneously an Iroquois civil war going on with the Oneida versus most of the rest, and the Oneida were American allies.

I cried when the tribal historian sent me the detailed history of the Oneida claims made to the United States. They'd lost over half their people, and 3/4 of their warriors. Virtually every plough, harness or other item useful in this world, right down to iron pots, had been seized by the Brits.

Then, every building had been burned to the ground, and women and children were regularly bayoneted and tortured (by the Brits).

Why did we let these Brits evacuate to New Brunswick when there were perfectly good deep waters not too far away where they could have been dropped.

Next time, no more Mr. Nice Guy.

45 posted on 08/28/2010 8:51:36 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: the OlLine Rebel
[ Heck, even if I was a rube on the subject, a little more courtesy would be nice. ]

Jee.. your question produced a lot of interesting URL's and resources.. you want a HUG TOO?...

here Hold my cigar and beer... (((( HUG ))))

46 posted on 08/28/2010 8:52:58 AM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: Rockingham

I think the scene from “The Patriot” was based on fact and Beck used that fact, not the other way around.

The British were merciless.


47 posted on 08/28/2010 8:55:04 AM PDT by madison10
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To: the OlLine Rebel
Just some references, that's all. I'm just a casual history buff as well.

1
'In that six day period the British set the towns of New Haven, Fairfield, Westport and Norwalk ablaze. At least five (5) churches, two hundred ninety-five (295) houses, one hundred fifty-three (153) barns and a significant number of stores, shops, mills and vessels were torched by British troops.'

2
May 25, 1778 at Bristol, Rhode Island - On May 25, a British raiding party entered the town of Bristol. They destroyed 22 dwellings and a church.

3
First Presbyterian Church of Yorktown Monument-During the Revolutionary War, the church became an arsenal and barracks and a meeting place for the Patriots. British troops destroyed the parsonage and storehouse in early June, 1779 and burned the church to the ground shortly after. After the war, a second church was built in 1785. There is a monument in front of the church, celebrating the all-black First Rhode Island Regiment, which figured prominently in the British raid in Yorktown in 1779.

48 posted on 08/28/2010 8:56:03 AM PDT by Palter (If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. ~ Mark Twain)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

This is what I remember:

The Patriot ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Py2LZNb79Q Video “Burn the Church, Captain”
http://www.constitution.org/col/the_patriot.htm

Richard Holmes - Redcoat: The British Soldier in the Age of Horse and Musket..

The redcoats are coming! The redcoats are coming! Everybody knows who the redcoats were: brutal, ill-disciplined troops, led by aristocratic sadists, the storm-troopers of the 18th century who massacred the Scots at Culloden, and who burnt heroic American patriots to death in their churches.

In Britain the redcoats have had a bad press for almost a century, in part because of their depiction in a series of comic strips printed in The Beano and the The Dandy hugely popular comic papers published by D. C. Thompson & Co., of Dundee (in Scotland). The strips portrayed the heroic Scots continually outwitting the brutal, stupid, cowardly redcoats in the guerilla war fought after the defeat of Bonnie Prince Charlie’s army. Evidence for the success of that campaign is the presence on the British throne of our current king, King James XIV, of the House of Stewart. The risible film, The patriot propagated other lies about British troops in America. Perhaps the worst lie of all was that redcoats were easy to kill (and by little Mel Gibson!)

http://www.epinions.com/review/Redcoat_The_British_Soldier_in_the_Age_of_Horse_and_Musket_by_Richard_Holmes/content_130259193476

Military stores set up in church..burned after drinking and looting riot by British -Danbury CT

http://www.skyweb.net/~channy/danraid.html


49 posted on 08/28/2010 8:58:50 AM PDT by fight_truth_decay
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To: TommyDale

Please accord me a little respect. 1st by reading my posts in full, then by holding the sarcasm, which doesn’t help, even if I WAS a RevWar illiterate. I’m asking a simple question hoping to get good answers (Beck did not supply any sources in his 1st minutes - no, I haven’t yet watched beyond 15 min of it). I don’t want to pump myself up, but it IS a hobby of mine and I have read much more on the period/war than your average Joe, never mind “seen” much more.

I am NOT anti-Glenn Beck. I record his show every day and watch it. I love him, but I’m afraid he’s getting a little loose with the facts. That does not help any cause.

Started with his all-too-brief “Indian” episode the other week. He brought up startling info about Hebrew-type etchings on stones found in Indian burials, etc. I thought very interesting - I know about zilch about Indians. I went here and the Glenn Beck thread had people denouncing those stones - they’ve been discredited, found frauds, it’s a Morman thing, etc. Not good.

Now he mentions something with which I’m unfamiliar in a period I know something about. It made me question it.


50 posted on 08/28/2010 8:59:08 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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