Posted on 09/17/2010 11:40:59 PM PDT by hylandia
I live in San Francisco, and I think you all know what that implies. I am a dyed-in-the-wool liberal and nearly everyone I interact with daily is as well. I read Free Republic most days to try to understand why Obamacare is so hated, and why the Ground Zero Mosque is taking such flak. And to be honest, I understand most of the viewpoints here. I don't agree, but I understand. The only one I don't understand is the very, very strong opposition to illegal immigration. Is it strictly a legal opposition? Workers that flaunt our laws at the border are likely to flaunt others? Or are there other reasons? I promise not to post again... so the zotting is a foregone response. I am just very interested in exactly why you feel that illegal immigration is so wrong.
Ahhnndddd 101!
IBTEKAAT
(in before the electric kool aid acid test)
In the future you can “progress” to controlling the uteruses of women to limit the overpopulation you created by supporting illegal immigration twenty years ago. In other words, you can “progress” from harming America with illegal immigration to raping America with a Chinese style birth control program. Will you chase down the grandkids of all those illegals you love so much and rip the babies out of their wombs to save the environment?
Many progressive “intellectuals” think that is the way to go in overpopulated countries. That is your future if you don't start firing some synapses.
When the consequences of your stupidity today, comes back to bite you in the butt, you will whine about it. Liberals will have a slogan to blame it on big windmill.
It punishes everyone who abides by the rules.
It's just the Right Thing to do to respect the rules of the places you visit.
By way of analogy, let's say you have a well known friendly neighbor who upon seeing you walk down the street, invites you to join them on the porch for a lemonade or something. You get an open invitation to "come visit any time". That wouldn't make it right to one day see a window open in that house, sneak inside, hide, and start camping out in the basement or something.
Sara, honey, I have no idea where your hypothesis comes from and how it even applies to me.
But, hell, if you want to argue over some invented scenario, let er rip.
I have never been for open borders. It is cruel and inhumane to ask a man, woman or even children to leave their families, neighborhoods, the country of their birth and culture.
It is further cruel that humans live in squalid conditions or to always be relegated to second class humans who are never allowed to roam freely as a citizen.
They get pulled over, no license, we take your car. Now that man’s ability to provide for his family is greatly impacted.
Cars ain’t cheap and he will have to acquire another if he hopes to make it to whatever job he has. Without a car he is Flintstoning it to get from point A to point B.
Without a car he cannot pack his car full of groceries that would feed his family.
Without a car he cannot transport his very sick child to receive medical care.
Being here illegally and telling all your friends to come over further complicates the problem and exacerbates it over and over again.
BTW, we have plenty of water. The shortage is over in the valley and it is robbing farmers of the vital thing required to farm.
And why is that? Because of some particular and special smelt. Hell, I say eat the damn things or use for chumming.
But the shortage is artificial and forced on the farmer by some government bureaucrat who loves to wield power over others not realizing the damning effect it has good hard working Americans and even those who are here illegally.
We have plenty of water in the cities and to each and every household.
So long as it snows in the Sierras will always have plenty of water.
We live in the high desert but it is completely manageable.
Now I ask why you don’t point your question at the people of Arizona, New Mexico, Western Texas and well, dare I say it Southern Nevada.
Those are true deserts and they get their water from everywhere but their respective states.
As far as your dimwitted utopia of cutting the uterus out of a woman, that would be your sick dream and I am thinking your name, SaraJohnson, is your American name.
You are really a Chinese spy. Right?
Now I ask people who
Here are my reasons why I oppose illegal immigration:
First let me say that I am not so much against the illegals per se, because if I was in their shoes suffering in hell and the door to paradise was left open and unguarded I would probably walk in as well.
The people that I’m angry at are the people on this side of the border that let it happen.
Here’s why I think it’s bad:
1. It’s breaking the law, or worse it’s selective enforcement of the law. Which is (or should be) a very serious thing in a society that is founded on the rule of law. This has a caustic effect on the fabric of society, increases cynicism, disrespect for other laws, and enrages those that follow the process.
2. It is my view that nations in essence are containers of culture or value systems. There is an implied contract for the people born inside the boundaries that they will be acculturated to those values. That maintains a degree of peace and harmony within the society. Immigration laws were designed to insure that the people allowed in would not cause social disruptions or be burdensome and in fact would make positive contributions to the society - i.e. were for the benefit of the country first and then the immigrant. Thus to be allowed in you would need to satisfy certain criteria such as acceptance of our culture, having a history not antagonistic to the culture, be of good character, be able to support yourself, be willing to integrate yourself into the society by learning the language,, have some skill set that was desirable, not have any communicable disease, etc.
3. With illegal immigration none of this is possible. So you open up the country to all sort of threats and problems. You will get criminals, terrorists, people with disease, good workers that want to assimilate, good workers that don’t want to assimilate and instead form ghettos and eventually demand special treatment or separation, people that come in for the social benefits and add to the tax burden, etc. We see all this happening and none of it is good. Why inflict a system like that on yourself?
I’m all in favor for increasing LEGAL immigration (if that’s what we want as a society), where all those criteria that I mentioned above are taken into account. (BTW, I’m a legal immigrant myself and I had to go through that type of screening)
Now that I’ve told you why I’m against ILLEGAL immigration, perhaps you can tell me why you favor it.
What color is the sky in your world and who is the arbiter of honesty as a characteristic of intellect?
You? LOL
Well you made a start by aknowledging it is illegal.But you are really just interested in gettin some good juicy backfeed.Maybe some other troll will provide that??
Billions upon billions every year. Try adding them up. Look at California’s deficit. What would it be without years of laying out for illegals. These numbers accumulate. How about the California school system. Classes in Spanish. You pay for all those teachers. After they retire you continue paying for them.
I understand the left thinks the resources are always there but they’re not. I for one don’t wish my lifestyle degraded any further than it is in order to support illegals for supporting them is exactly what we do.
I'm not sure it is wrong or illegal in San Fran.
I bet you that guy can get sued for attempting to practice medicine without a medical license. What a shame.
There you are dragon. I was waiting for your true colors to show.
I’d like to give you a little comprehensive reasoning and see what your response is.
The reason for a border and controls is that we own this country and they own theirs, in a sovereign sense. (There are two levels of ownership: private personal property exists within a framework of a sovereign state whose laws protect those people and property.)
We the people elect our leaders to govern us as we like. One of the things our leaders have recognized is that most of us want a stable electorate that is steeped in the history and culture of this country. And while things change over time, a stable population evolves slowly with few disruptions. To that end, our leaders passed laws to regulate immigration so that we can benefit from a regular infusion of talent and ideas, but not so fast that it disturbs the decisions and tranquility of those who already live here and have invested their whole lives in the culture we have.
But then there are leaders and a minority of the electorate who are not satisfied with the decisions we have made for ourselves. (You are probably one.) They have not been entirely successful at changing minds to their way of thinking. So a solution they have come to is to change the electorate by subverting the very laws they passed to placate current citizens and under cover of darkness import a new future electorate they believe will shift things more their way, mainly socialist-thinking people from Mexico and other third world countries.
Any fair-minded person should see that illegally substituting one electorate for another in order to rig elections down the road is wrong. More insidiously, while claiming to be for diversity and against racism, they use the conflict over illegal immigration to create solidarity along racial lines of several minority groups and division in the majority to consolidate their power base for changing the system away from what the majority of existing citizens originally voted for, even before giving amnesty and the vote to the newcomers.
The reaction of the majority of the current electorate appears to be an opposition to immigrant groups and an insipient racism. In fact, it is a reaction, not always well-voiced, to defend our right to govern ourselves by majority consent without subversion from outside and illegitimate tactics on the part of the minority in this country.
PM and posted. Please feel free to respond privately or in thread.
I think you go off the rails a bit in point 3. It is all true but goes more into side-effects than the main issue. (No one would be for deliberately proliferating violent crime.) See what you think of my statement in 114.
.jpg)
but there was no free medical and welfare and SSI and soup kitchens etc....of course there was very little taxation as well....
now look.....
we citizens are mandated to pay income tax, and SS tax, and Medicare tax....and to get car insurance....
we have no choice...
but we have an implied contract.....we pay as good citizens will do and there will be a little money for you when you reach 62, and health care when you reach 65....we'll have good schools and highways .....
IOWS....we pay for services for now, and for later....WE PAY.....
but you have millions sneaking into our country without paying all that citizens do and they are bankrupting SS and Medicare, the jail system, overrunning our schools, and our hospitals....
so our taxes are buying us NOTHING....everything promised or implies..SS,Medicare,good schools, good healthcare, etc is being taken away from us....STOLEN by people that have not invested in this country like a citizen....
I beleive in immigration....legal....let these people apply along with the Russians and the VietNamese, and the Pacific Islanders....
Best one yet!!
“In fact, it is a reaction, not always well-voiced, to defend our right to govern ourselves by majority consent without subversion from outside and illegitimate tactics on the part of the minority in this country.”
I don’t disagree with that. That’s what I was alluding to with my comment about “being angry with people on this side of the border for letting it happen”.
“I think you go off the rails a bit in point 3. It is all true but goes more into side-effects than the main issue.”
Those side effect are not trivial. They are the unintended consequences of what you call the minority’s scheme to gain power through illegal immigration. They for example may not necessarily want a balkanized country, eventually disintegrating, but they may get it anyway. They may not want terrorists or criminals crossing the border, but they’ll get them anyway. They may not (or may) want a heavier welfare burden, but they’ll get it anyway.
You make the case for why so many people in this country favor illegals (or don’t fight it). I agree with that. What I was pointing out was all the other bad consequences that happen with illegals, whether schemed or not. It’s bad because of all of the above.
Vanity as First Post
At Least He is Honest with his Stated Position
Perhaps not so much Zot Material as a Strafing Run
As a dyed-in-the-wool San Francisco liberal, you are a compulsive liar. Which means you do understand the opposition to illegal immigration, and you are not interested in why Freepers feel that illegal immigration is so wrong.
What you are into, however, is hit-and-run crank-yanking. And one of the oldest communist tricks is to ask rock-stupid questions and demand answer after answer. Chinese communists would make their prisoners write their autobiographies over and over and over to wear them down and make them doubt themselves. Your pathetic post is your version of that. You come not to learn, but in your own feeble way, to lie and do whatever harm you can.
But you're as hidden as a child with it's hands over it's eyes, because you're a child. As you well know (but think conservatives don't), liberals live in a world of endless sniping and undermining and mocking and sneering at each other - let alone at conservatives - in a seething hell of insecurity and psychological game playing.
And that's what you're trying to do here.
But I have an answer for you anyway, SF liberal, and here it is: liberalism is dying. It is being crushed by people waking up to the fact that the liberal lifestyle is revolting - and not because of sex. Rather, it's revolting because you're moral cowards, and live lives of endless fear and hypocrisy and violence. Because of it, even your own children are turning against you, and politically you're all about to be thrown out on your asses once and for all.
And there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop it.
I hope that doesn't make you sad at the end of the day.
LOL.
From the beginning it was ignored because man wanted the "cheap" labor but politicians could not get their bosses (Jane and John Public) to agree to new laws that would open the borders wide.
I don't know for sure but I think our Man on Horseback said something like, We Are A Nation Of Laws Not Men. I like that personally. Makes sense.
But followers of Alinksy's "Rules For Spoiled Brats" (whether lefties or Chambers of Commerce) attack us opponents of ILLEGAL immigration by name-calling.. nothing substantive.
I understand where you are coming from and I visited Sanfran
sicko when I was young and in the Army -and found it too
perverted even when I was running away from my Christian faith.My ancestors came to America legally from Germany and Ireland before our American War of Northern Aggression/Civil
War (choose one) My Great grandfather could remember having known family who were not born in the USA.I speak only for myself—but What galls about the Mosque at Ground Zero is
pretty much the same as the galling facto of the govt.progressive response to ILLEGAL immigration.-REWARDING
those who have peers and loyalty to those violate our laws.
It's easy.
Legal immigration is the same as welcoming guests into your house through the front door.
Illegal immigration is the same as someone breaking in your back door.
One is a delight, the other is an assault. One respects your property and person, the other doesn't.
The limited ability to see the big picture is what makes you liberal.
To be added or removed from the VK list, FReepmail Darkwing104.
ya know... crap like that is usually followed closely by Kitties and Lightning
Then we can have this discussion.
The kittens must be asleep.
5.56mm
Your life is meaningless. Your existence is pointless. Self-destruction is your only way out.
Illegal = illegal
In other words, AGAINST our laws.
You are a DUMB ASS.
You are a problem and a product of the public school system.
You should not be allowed to ever get near a voting booth in your life.
People like you should be put into the insane asylums.
I believe the sanfranciscan IS already in a mental asylum but has access to the internet.
There are other people with your IQ currently serving in the US Congress. Just look at the (d) side of the isle, and you are probably at the top of the IQ list. The swimmer teddy was probably your true political hero, since he is stoned most of the day. Either he was or Robert KKK Byrd may have been. Or are you more on the SAN FRAN NAN side? Maybe B Hussein O is your leftwing hero.
Did you have a few too many snorts of cocaine with your Tequila this morning? Why don’t you go to the local office and collect your stinking food stamps and go buy your liquor and cigarettes for the week? Druggies like you should not be allowed anywhere near a computer. That can be dangerous, since you may accidentally access a porn site and that could affect your IQ even worse at your age.
Just leave us alone to our intelligent political discussion. Well, you don’t know what intelligence is, by your totally ignorant initial post. What is with liberals like you? You have to mess up the Internet with your whiny, juvenile ideas. I know first graders who have much more intellect than you exhibited with your little rant. There is nothing that indicates any amount of intelligence.
Does your mommy know you are alone with her computer? You should be banned from ever being allowed anywhere near any electronics again, since you may accidentally shock yourself. Well, that could do some good and ensure you never reproduce any offspring. Go back to doing what you Dummies do best – trash anyone you disagree with and praise the idiot democrats who hate America.
Whatever the case, you should never be allowed to vote in any election. It takes some understanding of politics to understand that every candidate and his or her supporters agree with and have the courage to ensure that agenda is good for America.
You might be correct. People like hylandia who have to axe why ILLEGAL is illegal are not all here.
You're gay?
I can see how some people might see my original post as a hit-and-run trolling post. However, my point was not to start a debate (on this issue at least, I don’t think I could possibly keep up with the flood of responses). My point was simply to try to understand why people, on the other side of the aisle, are against illegal immigration. You hear a lot in the media about the problem of illegal immigration, but you actually hear very little about the why.
Nice graphic!
Yes, it was. Thank you to most of you for the reasoned responses.
And thank you cowboyway, for the hilarious response.
I found it somewhere awhile back. Did I get it from you? (I try not to swipe many FReepers pics.)
It’s not mine. I was just admiring it.
Yeah, I liked it too. I think I found it around Halloween last year. I usually do my own but this one is cool.
IATZ!
So what did you learn from your little exercise here?
Do you understand why? Do you have any arguments against the positions written here? What is your stance on illegal (non-legal) immigration?
I am a dyed-in-the-wool liberal and nearly everyone I interact with daily is as well.
Will you have conversations with your liberal friends about what you have gleaned from this thread besides talking about the cute pictures?
You don’t see why ILLEGAL immigration is so bad?
Okay.
Put a sign out in front of your house saying that you are unarmed, and that all lawbreakers are welcome.
Let hundreds or thousands of illegals enter your house.
After they are done, look at what you have left.
That is, if you haven’t been raped and murdered beforehand.
You can thank me for the dose of reality after they are done with you.
It is very immoral.
It is a form of slavery....the advantage is primarily to the employer as it relieves him of the obligation to pay social security, medicare and workman’s compensation on the illegal employee.
This has two consequences
It permits the exploitation of the employee..denying them the basic protections granted American citizens under employment and civil rights law.
It dilutes the integrity of that law for legal employees. Ultimately it weakens our institutions which then benefits principally the employer, who can then take advantage of the American employee.
It occurs because we have a fascist government.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.