Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Air Fares Get Much Too Low
24/7 Wall St. ^ | Monday, September 20, 2010 | Robert Herbst

Posted on 09/20/2010 2:43:33 AM PDT by Willie Green

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-48 next last
To: Willie Green

Well, people will vote with their feet on that one. I suspect a lot of them will opt for the cheap, cheap buses.


21 posted on 09/20/2010 5:13:55 AM PDT by Haiku Guy (Anything not about elephants is irrelephant.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Badabing Badablonde
Its just a matter of time before they put coin machines on the lavatory doors.

Not coin machines... Think credit card readers...

It costs the same to fly a lavatory as it costs to fly three passengers. If you are one of the 30 people to use that lavatory on a trip, you should expect to pay about the tenth of the cost of your ticket.

Of course, on short haul flights, that will mean that almost everybody uses the facilities back at the airport before departure. The reduced demand will mean that airlines can remove most of the lavatories for their planes, making more room for fare-paying customers, and reducing unit costs. WIN-WIN.

22 posted on 09/20/2010 5:20:18 AM PDT by Haiku Guy (Anything not about elephants is irrelephant.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: econjack
I wonder what would happen to costs if airlines didn't have their routes dictated to them.

With the exception of Washington Reagan, and La Guardia where slots are owned and the gummint get't involved, the US airline industry has been deregulated for 32 years. Your premise is wrong. Airlines don't have their routes dictated to them.
23 posted on 09/20/2010 6:08:00 AM PDT by Tzfat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Haiku Guy
I am all for letting airlines drop unprofitable routes. Let the industry decide what airports to serve and when. Getting government involved only leads to stupid decision making

You are late to the party. The industry was deregulated in 1978. No one tells the airlines what routes the can fly domestically; and internationally it is only treaty restrictions that have a say.
24 posted on 09/20/2010 6:13:11 AM PDT by Tzfat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green
Amtrak revenues have dramaticaly increased

And yet they still fail to turn a profit.

while the airlines have decreased!!!

And yet the DO turn a profit. What a miracle!

Here's the lesson Willie: Government entities don't make money, they cost taxpayers BILLIONS.

Private sector businesses do turn a profit or they cease to exist.

Why is that so hard to grasp?

(less than 500 miles) where passenger rail can provide more cost effective service.

As long as they have an endless supply of money taken from hard working taxpayers at the point of a gun.

25 posted on 09/20/2010 6:13:39 AM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tzfat
I thought the FAA still sets the number of carriers that service air ports. I know the prices are deregulated, but I don't think routes are. That's why airlines frequently buy out other airlines...AirTran was bought not for its profitability, but the fact that it had gates at Chicago O’Hare, which became part of the deal.
26 posted on 09/20/2010 6:14:13 AM PDT by econjack (Some people are as dumb as soup.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green

that chart is garbage.

passenger rail is dead and should say dead. How much of the cost for airlines is absurd financial regulation?

Rail is just a white elephant for real estate insiders.


27 posted on 09/20/2010 6:21:34 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green

not to mention the absurd cost of maintaining rails and the fact amtrack is a government rail.

it is cheeper to buy cars for passengers than to fund these rail systems.


28 posted on 09/20/2010 6:24:35 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: econjack

Nope. Routes and fares were deregulated in 1978.


29 posted on 09/20/2010 6:26:16 AM PDT by Tzfat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Haiku Guy

There is nothing free market about the airline industry. It’s heavily subsidized with tax money and government programs encourage wasteful and unneeded airport developments.


30 posted on 09/20/2010 6:42:40 AM PDT by sbMKE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: ROCKLOBSTER

Monetary policy and near-zero interest rates keep oil prices artificially high. The holding costs are at historically low, encouraging speculators to park supply in anticipation of the economic (and price) recovery.


31 posted on 09/20/2010 6:46:59 AM PDT by sbMKE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green
WOW!! Great news. Now we can delete the AMTRAK federal subsidy and let rail compete on it's own.

Finally some good news from passenger rail.

BTW, Rail will never compete with air for 600 mile flights. Rail is, and will always be, too slow.

If I was going to take that amount of time, I'd just drive. Why subject myself to the riff-raff on mass transit if it buys me nothing? If I don't need the speed of air I use the convenience and increased capacity of my own vehicle.

Not to mention the fact that private auto is far far cheaper for a family than rail or air. (Incremental cost per person for auto is trivial. Perhaps $30 per day for food at most. Incremental cost per person for rail or air is hundreds of dollars. Another full fare ticket per person (plus baggage charges, taxes etc))

Take the money from the amtrak subsidy and put it into the highway system where it can actually do some good.

32 posted on 09/20/2010 6:57:06 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: longtermmemmory
it is cheeper to buy cars for passengers than to fund these rail systems.

No it isn't.

Passenger rail systems have economic lifespans that are measured in decades, whereas at best, automobiles only last about 13 years. And most become crappy clunkers long before that.

So to do a true apples-to-apples comparison, it would require an extremely large number of automobiles to travel the same number of passenger miles as a passenger rail train that's heavily used 24/7/365 for 25~30 years of service.

33 posted on 09/20/2010 6:59:18 AM PDT by Willie Green (Some people march to a different drummer – and some people polka.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green
So to do a true apples-to-apples comparison, it would require an extremely large number of automobiles to travel the same number of passenger miles as a passenger rail train that's heavily used 24/7/365 for 25~30 years of service.

True, but you still need the car to get to the train. You have to add that cost in, too.

34 posted on 09/20/2010 7:03:51 AM PDT by paulycy (Demand Constitutionality: Islamo-Marxism is Evil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: econjack

With the exception of Essential Air Service, the FAA does not regulate routes and fares. The number of boarding gates at an airport regulates how many airlines can serve an airport and at a couple of airports in the country there is a restriction on landing slots.

I last checked on Essential Air Service about a month ago. I think the number of airports affected by EAS is down to about 112. Many of these airports were in Alaska.


35 posted on 09/20/2010 7:43:40 AM PDT by CFIIIMEIATP737
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: jimtorr

Cheap tickets to Europe about $260 in the ‘80s, can’t get much lower than $700 today after taxes and fees.


36 posted on 09/20/2010 7:51:54 AM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green

I don’t comment much on your train threads, but one of my coworkers wanted to use Amtrack to go meet his son and daughter in law in AZ. His trip would have taken him through Chicago. We are talking Austin to AZ and FIVE days sitting in a rail car.


37 posted on 09/20/2010 7:53:20 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (Remember in November. Clean the house on Nov. 2. / Progressive is a PC word for liberal democrat.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Arrowhead1952
but one of my coworkers wanted to use Amtrack to go meet his son and daughter in law in AZ. His trip would have taken him through Chicago. We are talking Austin to AZ and FIVE days sitting in a rail car.

Well that would've been his own fault for taking the train in the wrong direction.
If he took the westbound Texas Eagle from Austin to LA, he could've gotten off in Benson, Tucson, Maricopa or Yuma, AZ without much fuss.

However, if he was trying to get to get to Winslow, Flagstaff, Williams Junction or Kingman along the northern Arizona Southwest Chief Amtrak route, yes, that would've taken him to an extremely inconvenient circuitous route through Chicago.

That's a good reason why we need to built more North/South Amtrak routes (like the Fort Worth - OK city - Wichita line) that connect the different East-West Amtrak routes. It would make it a lot easier to get to many areas without making conections in a distant hub and having to double back.

The good news is.... we really don't have to build very many of these North/South connections to make the network more flexible. And the scheduling opportunities would improve dramaticly!

38 posted on 09/20/2010 8:44:36 AM PDT by Willie Green (Some people march to a different drummer – and some people polka.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green

entirely wrong.

They have done studies for the high speed rail between tampa and orlando FL. based on the cost of construction, it would be CHEEPER to buy each potential regular rider a limo with driver FOR LIFE than to build that white elephant.

It is NOT the government’s job to maintain the rails. It is the private company’s job. Amtrak was supposed to be a temporary fix until it could be privatized.

If rail for passengers was so wonderful, then private companies would have moved in.


39 posted on 09/20/2010 12:10:50 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: longtermmemmory
based on the cost of construction, it would be CHEEPER to buy each potential regular rider a limo with driver FOR LIFE than to build that white elephant.

No, limos are expensive to maintain and won't last the lifetime of the riders like a passenger rail car will.
You have to buy each of those passengers at least 3 or 4 limos (maybe more) to actually travel the same number of passenger miles as the train travels.

40 posted on 09/20/2010 12:35:27 PM PDT by Willie Green (Some people march to a different drummer – and some people polka.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-48 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson