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May I have some input from our HVAC guys?

Posted on 10/26/2010 3:06:38 PM PDT by LouAvul

I have a 4 ton Carrier unit that was manufactured in 1996. My house was built in 1998 so I’m assuming the unit sat in a warehouse for a couple of years. It requires R-22 freon which is being phased out and, again, I’m assuming they’ll be charging a premium for it.

My air conditioner has been shutting off. It would run for a couple of hours and never reach the target cooling temperature. The outside unit (fan) would shut off and the attic unit (coil?) would continue to operate. I’d shut it off and after an hour or two, turn it back on. It worked for awhile after I turned it back on.

The HVAC guy just examined it. The outside motor is running at 1.8 amps. He said it’s supposed to run at 1.4 amps which means the motor is overheating and shutting off. In the attic he showed me significant level of rust and he said that the coil is freezing which is why there’s no air flow when it should be cooling. Then, according to him, the ice melts and drains, which is what’s causing the rust.

He says I need to replace the outside motor ($350) and the coil in the attic (on top of the furnace) for $1500.

Or I can go with new. That’s a 24ABC6 condenser, CNPVP coil and 58PHA furnace. This costs $6900. From $6900 I can subtract $1500 for a tax credit, $525 for our local power company instant rebate, another $75 rebate from Carrier, and a $125 rebate from the installer. That’s $4675 installed, plus tax.

The guy also said the warranty is significant. For the first year, emergency service 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. 10 years on parts, compressor, condensing coil, and evaporator coil. 5 years on labor. 20 years on heat exchange. They’ll also install a programmable thermostat. Currently the thermostat is non-programmable.

The IRS is discontinuing the $1500 tax credit after this year.

So I can spend $2000 to fix the existing unit or $5000 for new. The new price includes the furnace as well.


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1 posted on 10/26/2010 3:06:40 PM PDT by LouAvul
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To: LouAvul
Get another opinion. It sounds short of freon and cycles off on low pressure. That would account for the icing on the evaporator coil (fan unit).

May be a simple leak and add some freon.

2 posted on 10/26/2010 3:12:01 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: LouAvul

Why would you wanna spend good money upgrading an old system using R-22 which is being phased out.

Also something else you did not mention: Cost savings.

Your monthly electricity bill will decrease significantly based on a new energy efficient unit.

Buy the new system. It’s a no-brainer.


3 posted on 10/26/2010 3:13:36 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (Yes, as a matter of fact, what you do in your bedroom IS my business.)
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To: LouAvul

Get some more bids. We replaced our 20 year old AC & furnace this summer. Those guys are hungry. There are numerous Carrier installers as well as Lennox (my favorite). You NEED to get some more bids then have them compete against each other.


4 posted on 10/26/2010 3:14:01 PM PDT by macquire
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To: LouAvul

personally I’d go with the new unit. I wouldn’t worry about the tax break, it will come back eventually. Take a look at the energy efficency, if you can make it break even in 3-5 years then it’s totally a no brainer. If your staying in your house for the next 5+ years, again go for it.


5 posted on 10/26/2010 3:14:07 PM PDT by waynesa98
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To: LouAvul

We replaced ours June of 2009. I believe, Bryant is the same same as Carrier. Bryant units are made by Carrier. On the 3 estimates I received, same same model of Carrier was 2K higher than the Bryant. We went with Bryant. Same 1500.00 tax credit and then there was a 500.00 mfg. rebate . . . my husband looked the other day for a friend and I believe now it is 1200.00. So you might want to compare the two and see for your situation. 2700.00 and IF the Bryant is another 2K cheaper than Carrier, I’d replace. The Carrier we were looking at was around 6500 and went with Bryant for 4500 ‘ish’ less the rebates.


6 posted on 10/26/2010 3:14:21 PM PDT by Qwackertoo (Let this nightmare of Nov. 4, 2008 be over ASAP.)
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To: LouAvul

Replace it, the heater isn’t gpoing to last much longer either. You’ve got 12 years of use out of them both, which isn’t bad, not great, but not bad either. THe both of them will nickle and dime you to death as time progresses.


7 posted on 10/26/2010 3:14:26 PM PDT by ggwyo
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To: LouAvul

I just asked my favorite HVAC dude, my husband.

He said it is an old unit and you would be better off replacing with a higher efficiency unit and you will likely have a payback within 3 years if you buy a higher efficiency unit.

Remember the higher the SEER rating the more efficient it is.

Now days you need at least a 13 SEER. We just bought a 17 SEER, Mitsubishi that is amazingly quiet and does a great job.


8 posted on 10/26/2010 3:14:26 PM PDT by Kimmers (Tell a lie often enough it becomes political........)
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To: Kimmers
the higher the SEER rating the more efficient it is

The SEER is 16-16.9.

9 posted on 10/26/2010 3:17:24 PM PDT by LouAvul
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To: MileHi

I know someone who was having problems with a used German car (top of the line brand) with compressor leaks or or evaporator. The part and install were something like $1,500.

I suggested one of those leak sealing kits. There are a few of them out there. Some are better than others.

Anyway - they had the mechanic put the stuff in and it has been fine for 6 + months.


10 posted on 10/26/2010 3:17:30 PM PDT by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
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To: LouAvul

It sounds like you are getting a great price on this unit.....go for it.....


11 posted on 10/26/2010 3:20:46 PM PDT by Kimmers (Tell a lie often enough it becomes political........)
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To: macquire

Yeah those prices sounded high. I had a tech guy who does telephone stuff do some work recently. He had an issue with his house and went on Craig’s List and got a semi used system cheap.

They are hungry. Also search some of the online sites. In central FL I can get a 4 ton install for about $2500 after rebates. The furnace is more but search around on the web and also check Craig’s List. Guys are on there advertising deals.


12 posted on 10/26/2010 3:26:02 PM PDT by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
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To: MileHi

What he said. All of the symptoms indicate a freon leak. Also, an AC system should last more than 12 years. I’d do the cheapest thing first and not assume that you have a major problem. Get at least three reputable opinions.


13 posted on 10/26/2010 3:27:18 PM PDT by vigilence
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To: LouAvul

Your tech is just trying to “upsell” you! Have the next guy top off your freon. Your symptoms are classic low fluid pressure, not mechanical!


14 posted on 10/26/2010 3:28:17 PM PDT by cartoonistx
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To: ggwyo
You’ve got 12 years of use out of them both, which isn’t bad, not great

Man, central AC units are expected to last 25-30 years around here. Dry area, though. And the furnace unit (including elements) in this house lasted 25 years until replaced. Our heat pump is 11 years old and I consider it brand new.

15 posted on 10/26/2010 3:29:26 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: LouAvul

Love my Trane 14 SEER

First time we turned it on it blew a bunch of stuff out of the ducts that the previous carrier unit never moved. She was mortified.


16 posted on 10/26/2010 3:32:01 PM PDT by halfright (My presidents picture is in the dictionary, next to the word, "rectum".)
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To: LouAvul

At least get a second opinion before you start panting for the super duper new unit.


17 posted on 10/26/2010 3:33:56 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: Frantzie

Could work. There are ways to detect leaks (soap bubbles or electronic)and many can be fixed without evacuating. Those R22 systems should last 25 years. Some of these guys are “hungry” alright. They are incompetent or liars in many cases.

I always said if doctors are like HVAC service guys, how do you know if you have one of the three-in-ten who know what the hell they are doing?


18 posted on 10/26/2010 3:35:33 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: vigilence

Exactly right.


19 posted on 10/26/2010 3:36:35 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: LouAvul

4 ton unit is huge. How many sq ft is your place?


20 posted on 10/26/2010 3:44:06 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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