Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Migrants from the Near East 'brought farming to Europe'
BBC ^ | November 10, 2010 | Katia Moskvitch

Posted on 11/14/2010 1:55:35 PM PST by decimon

Farming in Europe did not just spread by word-of-mouth, but was introduced by migrants from the ancient Near East, a study suggests.

Scientists analysed DNA from the 8,000 year-old remains of early farmers found at an ancient graveyard in Germany.

They compared the genetic signatures to those of modern populations and found similarities with the DNA of people living in today's Turkey and Iraq.

The study appears in the journal PLoS Biology.

Wolfgang Haak of the University of Adelaide in Australia led the team of international researchers from Germany, Russia and Australia.

Up until now, many scientists believed that the concept of farming was brought to Europe merely by the transfer of ideas. They thought that European hunter-gatherers living in close proximity to ancient farmers in the Near East were spreading the information about more settled ways and agriculture further north.

But the recent study challenges that hypothesis.

"We have shown that the first farmers in Europe had a much greater genetic input from the Near East and Anatolia, than from populations of Stone Age hunter-gatherers who already existed in the area," said Dr Haak.

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: agriculture; animalhusbandry; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-76 next last

The first farmers are believed to have brought domesticated cattle with them to Europe


One of the houses in the Neolithic settlement at Skara Brae, in Scotland's Orkney islands

1 posted on 11/14/2010 1:55:37 PM PST by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Uber orange ping.


2 posted on 11/14/2010 1:56:38 PM PST by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon

I just love it when archeologists have different opinions of the same find...THEY BOTH GET GRANT MONEY....and it can go on....FOREVER!!!


3 posted on 11/14/2010 2:01:15 PM PST by Sacajaweau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon
The first Celts of whom we have historic knowledge (that is, a written reference) were driven out of the Danube region sometime in the 1000 BCE to 700 BCE timeframe.

One of the reasons we have some "history" is that they picked up, purchased, collected, seized, or otherwise laid hands on Greek scribes to take with them to write down important information ~ navigational hints, bills, deliveries, news about the gods, etc.

The Galicians in Spain claim their earliest materials (copied by hand down through the centuries like all ancient documents) are written in ancient Greek for example.

The seagoing Celts weren't the only people to do that, and Greek scribes were always highly prized and sought after.

I suspect in earlier times OTHERS found it advantageous to capture Middle Eastern agricultural technicians and use them as slaves in the "royal gardens".

Else we'd have to believe two possible other tales ~ (1) That Middle Eastern settlers could move into occupied hunting grounds in Europe and just start farming without difficulty, or (2) That primitive hunter/gatherers went to the Middle East to study farming and then returned!

Since Western Europeans look more like the Sa'ami than they do like the Arabs, I simply have to opt for the slavery option.

4 posted on 11/14/2010 2:08:47 PM PST by muawiyah (GIT OUT THE WAY ~ REPUBLICANS COMIN' THROUGH)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon
Up until now, many scientists believed that the concept of farming was brought to Europe merely by the transfer of ideas.

I've never heard that. Europe has seen wave after wave of peoples from the East moving in. The Lap people in Finland are basically Asians. The Turks aren't like Arabs -- they are also Asians. Huns and all the other barbarians came from Asia. Why would this be a recent (1-2000 years ago) phenomenon? Why wouldn't this have happened at the beginning of agriculture?

The notion that people in the Near East and people in Europe had enough language in common that this sort of idea could transfer seems quite spurious. It seems far more likely like people just walked on over and said "We could plant seeds here. Let's stop and stay a while."

5 posted on 11/14/2010 2:12:11 PM PST by ClearCase_guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon

Back to Ex Oriente Lux?


6 posted on 11/14/2010 2:14:42 PM PST by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
I suspect in earlier times OTHERS found it advantageous to capture Middle Eastern agricultural technicians and use them as slaves in the "royal gardens".

With the exception of a very few highly favored locations around the world, hunter-gatherers never developed anything much above the band or tribe level of organization. Not a dense enought population.

So they never had kings or royal gardens. Such things show up only with agriculture.

What I find most interesting is that these finds show the early history of Europe to be much like that of the US. More advanced agriculturists moving in from the east, pushing the less-advanced natives before them or wiping them out.

The archaeologists and anthropologists never tire of postulating some time in the distant past where things were handled peacefully, but whenever actual evidence turns up it seems to indicate our ancestors were all remarkably warlike.

That's why they became our ancestors. The unwarlike or those who were insufficiently efficient at war died, killed by our ancestors.

7 posted on 11/14/2010 2:20:28 PM PST by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
Else we'd have to believe two possible other tales ~ (1) That Middle Eastern settlers could move into occupied hunting grounds in Europe and just start farming without difficulty, or (2) That primitive hunter/gatherers went to the Middle East to study farming and then returned!

(3) Farmers from the Middle East, with the dense populations made possible by farming, were able to move into lands very thinly settled by hunters and push them out.

I'm not sure why that's hard to believe. It's exactly what Americans and Australians did.

Not to mention Bantus, Malays and a great many other peoples.

8 posted on 11/14/2010 2:23:21 PM PST by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy
First off, the Lapp people, or Sa'ami, are NOT ASIANS. They are, if you will, essentially the same white folk who wintered over in the last ice age in the Western European refugia.

They are more like your ancestors of 15,000 years ago than you are. Think of them as the "original white people" but more adapted to sub-arctic climates.

Second, before the Turkish invasions from about the 900s to 1300s in the Middle East, most of the people in Anatolia (today's Turkish main homeland) were of Celtic, Greek or Semitic ancestry. The Celts and Greeks "moved in" during the First Millenium BCE, and this is talking about people all the way back to 10,000 BCE, so they'd be mostly descendants of folks who survived the last ice age in the Middle Eastern refugia ~ or the predecessors to those we call Semites today.

9 posted on 11/14/2010 2:23:51 PM PST by muawiyah (GIT OUT THE WAY ~ REPUBLICANS COMIN' THROUGH)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

I thought I had this ready to post, shows how wrong I can be. From the FRchives:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/830671/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2007569/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2058700/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2062499/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2077948/posts


10 posted on 11/14/2010 2:32:02 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
The Sa'ami languages belong to the Uralic language group. The language originates near the Ural mountains, which divide Europe from Asia. I merely point out that there was a necessary movement from the east into Europe for this to occur.

With respect to the Turks, their movement into Anatolia is comparatively modern, as you point out. But again, I was merely pointing to a Asian people who clearly moved in from Asia and decided to stay. This is an incredibly common phenomenon and I find is surprising that people think the populations were somehow static, and that the concept of agriculture was spread by word of mouth.

This whole thing sounds like a grant seeker stating something very obvious ("agriculture was spread by human migration") and pretending to disprove a notion that no one really held ("agriculture spread by word of mouth").

11 posted on 11/14/2010 2:32:34 PM PST by ClearCase_guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: decimon; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

· GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach ·
· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
 Antiquity Journal
 & archive
 Archaeologica
 Archaeology
 Archaeology Channel
 BAR
 Bronze Age Forum
 Discover
 Dogpile
 Eurekalert
 Google
 LiveScience
 Mirabilis.ca
 Nat Geographic
 PhysOrg
 Science Daily
 Science News
 Texas AM
 Yahoo
 Excerpt, or Link only?
 


Thanks decimon.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
 

· History topic · history keyword · archaeology keyword · paleontology keyword ·
· Science topic · science keyword · Books/Literature topic · pages keyword ·


12 posted on 11/14/2010 2:33:12 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan
The "advanced agriculturalists" in what is now the United States were the Indians. Europeans were quite retarded in that regard compared to the Indians.

The number of plant species domesticated by ancient American populations is HUGE and easily outnumbers the count from the Old World.

So, what you had in America were advanced agriculturalists (with, for example, squash, beans, popcorn, strawberries, and myriads of other tasty delights) being overrun by people little removed from their hunter/gather, migratory herdsman traditions.

One of the great hot-houses of agricultural development occurred in Kentucky and Southern Indiana.

The most renowned civilization, that of Sumer (the first one we know of) was started up by migratory herdsmen!

The second most renowned civilization, that of Egypt, was also started up by people who moved in from the dying grasslands of what became known as the Sahara Desert. They may have herded domestic animals, or not ~ most likely they were great hunters from the plains!

The Yayoi brought agriculture to an already civilized and organized Japan. The Jomon were developing agriculture in the far North where conditions were tougher, but otherwise they could depend on hunting and gathering in the rich hardwood forests then covering Central and Southern japan!

Dollars to doughnuts Hunter/Gatherer societies were capable of enslaving farmers and doing with them as they wished.

So, yes, "royal gardens" and filled with slaves brought in from distant lands.

We don't know where that first "royal garden" might have been but archaeologists working in Iran may well have found it ~ and are working very carefully to recover every piece of information available.

13 posted on 11/14/2010 2:35:14 PM PST by muawiyah (GIT OUT THE WAY ~ REPUBLICANS COMIN' THROUGH)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy
Wrong ~ the Uralic-Altaic language groups have been broken up, reorganized, and studied further and found to have far less in common than had originally been thought.

The Sa'ami languages are grouped with the Finno-Ughric group ~ mostly on the basis of sharing the same vocabularies in a wide variety of human activities.

However, there are sufficient grammatical differences in ALL the Sa'ami languages to set them aside as EARLIER than Finnish, Estonian, and possibly some extinct forms more akin to the Hungarian base language (before the arrival of the Cumin, et al).

Even German has acquired some grammatical forms from Sa'ami ~ which suggests some serious contact about the 8th Century BCE.

Current thinking is the other languages once grouped in the former Uralic-Altaic group probably originated IN THE WEST and then spread EAST.

Even some Japanese (the Royal Family and Daimyo ~ the people who invaded in the 6th century AD) have the Sa'ami X-factor gene sequence, as do the Yakuts/Sakha in Russia, the Iriquois, Cherokee, Ojibway and other Indians in North America, as well as do the Fulbe in Africa, and the Berbers ~ these all being connections as recent as 7,000 years back!

The Sa'ami have no connection with Central and East Asian groups except the Yakuts/Sakha (who are ancestral to the Daimyo BTW).

The archaeological record shows that as fast as the ice melted the people who became the Sa'ami moved NORTH on the Western coast of the Fenno-Scandian peninsula to the Arctic Ocena and then East to more familiar Sa'ami territories.

Check this website: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1199377/

14 posted on 11/14/2010 2:44:58 PM PST by muawiyah (GIT OUT THE WAY ~ REPUBLICANS COMIN' THROUGH)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Sacajaweau

*sheesh*

Why do “modern” archeologists think that a particular step forward is unique to a certain area of the world? I know for a fact that the same idea can come to more than one person at a time.

In their arrogance, archeologists dismiss entire cultures because the cultures don’t fit the beliefs of the archeologists.

I could make a list, but why? Stupidity seems to be rampant in certain educational circles.


15 posted on 11/14/2010 2:49:36 PM PST by Monkey Face (In God we trust!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
So, what you had in America were advanced agriculturalists (with, for example, squash, beans, popcorn, strawberries, and myriads of other tasty delights) being overrun by people little removed from their hunter/gather, migratory herdsman traditions.

Righto. The reason, of course, that so many species were domesticated in the Americans, as compared to the Old World, is that with the exception of maize (North America) and potatoes (South America) they weren't very productive in the old calories/acre test.

Since the native Americans were so much more "advanced" than Europeans, why didn't the NAs "discover" Europe and colonize it instead of the other way around?

I've read a great deal about the pre-Columbian history of the New World, and I'm perfectly in agreement that their achievements have often been overlooked, but let's not let hyperbole get out of hand.

While there were areas of what is now the USA where "civilizations" had sprung up, notably in the South and Southwest, they were at best at a stage roughly equal to that of very early Sumer or the peoples discussed in this article, which were 5000 to 7000 years earlier in the Old World.

No large domestic animals, no wheel, no metal (for utilitarian purposes), no writing. That's not an advanced civilization.

BTW, "migratory herdsmen" is not an earlier stage of life than settled agriculture, it's a parallel one. It's far more advanced than the hunter-gatherer stage and to be fully economically viable often requires a settled agricultural society nearby to raid, rule or trade with.

16 posted on 11/14/2010 2:51:39 PM PST by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
Sounds interesting; I'll check out the website. And I'll stop holding up the Sa'ami as an example.

But my overall point is that various peoples from the East have moved into Europe and that these periodic waves of migrations have been taking place for thousands of years and are not any sort of surprising new discovery.

17 posted on 11/14/2010 2:54:02 PM PST by ClearCase_guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: decimon

Migrants from the Near East ‘brought farming to Europe’ only because they had already lost all the topsoil, turned the Middle East into a desert and were ready to do the same thing in Europe until the Arayan-descended Hessian Stormtrooopers wiped them out Big Battle of the Saar [Cannaanite God of the Storm, pronounced with a Germanic lisp as “Thor”] with iron swords against the farmer`s puny bronze sickle swords. That`s why Teutonic legend calls them “Thor Losers”


18 posted on 11/14/2010 3:11:52 PM PST by bunkerhill7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

What we’ll see is that ancient peoples had much greater contact through trade and migration than we currently realize.

Intermarriage had to occur or tribal systems would collapse under their own genetic weight.


19 posted on 11/14/2010 3:13:22 PM PST by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan
You'll discover that in the literature regarding research into copper smelting that there are two different fields ~ that regarding OLD WORLD and that regarding NEW WORLD.

I've been to the site near the Wisconsin/Michigan border ~ and now there's a site of comparable age in Meso-America.

Remembering that smelting copper is logically the first off the block ~ and the easiest to do, you can also start with what are called native ore surface deposits (they look green) and beat them rather than melt them. First time you put that stuff on an exceptionally hot fire you would, of course, discover smelting.

America has had several such deposits and the Old World has had harder to get-at deposits.

So far the Indians are arguably ahead of the Old World when it comes to copper working, or smelting, but the time frames are working their way back to probably "simultaneous discovery" having something to do with the return of human populations to Northern forests (which took time to grow).

The Indians were also CENTURIES ahead of the Euro-African invaders when it came to the use of glass to cut and kill! Their error was to not first invent firearms, or maybe some way of avoiding Hanta Virus!

Now, concerning "writing", the North American plains Indian sign language is clearly identical to what is known as Chinese in the Shang Dynasty shards. No idea how that got here, but it was very useful. Then there several independent writing methods developed in Meso-America ~ and fortunately as I drift off into the great never never smart guys have learned how to decipher them ~ and they are like us. In the Old World ONE form of writing was independently developed ~ that was in Sumer. It's earliest hieroglyphic form appears to have served as the basis for Chinese and Egyptian! All other forms in the Old World arise out of that discovery. Meso Americans devised MORE THAN ONE independent form of writing.

Large Domestic Animals ~ the Llama was domesticated LONG before any Old World animals. The North American cattle had/have endemic brucellosis which means that any native human population that succeeded in breeding the first 3 or 4 generations in the 8 generation domestication process would themselves have suffered from some serious reproductive problems and would have gone extinct before working it out. (SEE: Tame Foxes).

Still, i'm sure more than one Indian looked at a buffalo and said "Hey, I'd like to have one of them so I could build a big wagon and pull it around" ~ it's an obvious application, not one not readily accomplished.

The Indians also had old world dogs and I suppose they could have bred for large dogs but think of the meat bill for those suckers!

The Sumerians, BTW, did their thing in an area of land between the otherwise defensible Euphrates and Tigris rivers ~ and their first settlements appear to have arisen before the arrival of cattle ~ so that meant they were purely hunters.

20 posted on 11/14/2010 3:22:23 PM PST by muawiyah (GIT OUT THE WAY ~ REPUBLICANS COMIN' THROUGH)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: bunkerhill7
Oh, my goodness, you've been into "Faux St0rmwhat'sit" haven't you.

They're still arguing that the Ainu are not East Asians ~

21 posted on 11/14/2010 3:24:14 PM PST by muawiyah (GIT OUT THE WAY ~ REPUBLICANS COMIN' THROUGH)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan
Oh, forgot amaranth ~ and a wide variety of squash and beans ~ you didn't need livestock if you could grow beans.

The THREE SISTERS of the American Indians (and this is North, South and Central American indians) are Corn, Beans and Squash. Grown together this was an incredibly productive food source.

They did this without ploughs ~

22 posted on 11/14/2010 3:26:57 PM PST by muawiyah (GIT OUT THE WAY ~ REPUBLICANS COMIN' THROUGH)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: bunkerhill7
That`s why Teutonic legend calls them “Thor Losers”

Yes, a people renowned for their sense of humor. Nothing like a week in the "Bavarian Catskills" to loosen up.

23 posted on 11/14/2010 3:36:37 PM PST by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: decimon
The new book by Bill Bryson, At Home, has an interesting discussion of Skara Brae.
24 posted on 11/14/2010 3:41:46 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Verginius Rufus
The new book by Bill Bryson, At Home, has an interesting discussion of Skara Brae.

I don't know why that picture is in that article but it's a neat picture.

25 posted on 11/14/2010 3:45:59 PM PST by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy
"The Lap people in Finland are basically Asians."

The Sa'ami consider Lap or Laplander a derogatory term these days. I have some Sa'ami DNA but it doesn't bother me. I do dislike 'Redneck' somewhat though. (ahem)

Where Do The Finns Come From?

"It seems far more likely like people just walked on over and said "We could plant seeds here. Let's stop and stay a while."

Stephan Oppenheimer says in his book, The Origins Of The British, that his studies does not support a physical migration of people from the Middle East and that farming was just adopted from village to village by the people who were already at any location. In fact, he said that once a DNA haplogroup settled in an area, it was never replaced by another.

For example, the (majority) DNA of the Brits today is the same DNA that arrived there at the end of the Ice Age. It was wave after wave of essentially the same people migrating north and west out of the Iberian Ice Age refuge. Mostly halpogroups (yDNA)R1b and (mtDMA) 'H' of which are 65%+ of Western Europeans.

Renee Zellweger is Sa'ami.


26 posted on 11/14/2010 3:51:02 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: blam

Why do you drop the ‘L’?


27 posted on 11/14/2010 3:57:38 PM PST by bvw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: decimon

Billy Ray Cyrus and his cows.


28 posted on 11/14/2010 4:10:45 PM PST by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bvw
"Why do you drop the ‘L’?"

What 'L'? (I don't know what you're talking about)

29 posted on 11/14/2010 4:12:20 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: blam

“sa’ami”?


30 posted on 11/14/2010 4:18:33 PM PST by bvw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: bvw
“sa’ami”?

That's ba'oney.

31 posted on 11/14/2010 4:20:17 PM PST by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: decimon

The Ba’oney settled the Orkneys.


32 posted on 11/14/2010 4:28:35 PM PST by bvw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: blam

I thought she was Norweigian? You might be right because of the eyes. Nice picture of her there. When you see her in movies and interview - her eyes. She looks like she is squinting all the time. You are right.

I wonder why? I think it is probably adapting to the constant white snow to avoid snow blindness.

I think Pam Anderson is. She is supposedly Swedish. It is the eyes.

She looks like Finnish fiddle player Linda Brava aka
http://www.relaxedpolitics.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/linda-brava-2-site.jpg

http://www.topnews.in/files/Pamela-Anderson-1.jpg

Finnish Formula 1 drivers and world champions. Raikkonen looks more European while Hakkinen looks more Sa’ami.

http://www.scottasia.net/2008/serenity/press/images/Kimi_Raikkonen_1.jpg

http://www.formula1.com/photos/teams_and_drivers/hall_of_fame_profile/top_right/hof_profile_right_40.jpg


33 posted on 11/14/2010 4:35:54 PM PST by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

Have you checked out Dienekes blog? He blogs on genetic research. It can get very recondite and technical but it is of interest.


34 posted on 11/14/2010 4:37:57 PM PST by squarebarb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: bvw
The Ba’oney settled the Orkneys.

I thought that was the Ma'arkey.

35 posted on 11/14/2010 4:38:43 PM PST by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: decimon
I thought that was the Ma'arkey.

I think it was Ma'larkey.

36 posted on 11/14/2010 4:40:14 PM PST by sausageseller (If you want to cut your own throat, don't come to me for a bandage. M, Thatcher)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Frantzie

37 posted on 11/14/2010 4:44:52 PM PST by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: squarebarb
I follow up on this stuff by reading the papers once they've been mentioned by someone else on FR.

Keeping a focus on the Sa'ami stuff since there are 500 of them used by the Swedes and Finns as a medical testing ground.

They seem to be my tribe too! Keeps me ahead of the medical community by decades.

38 posted on 11/14/2010 4:50:46 PM PST by muawiyah (GIT OUT THE WAY ~ REPUBLICANS COMIN' THROUGH)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: blam
So is the gal who played Spiderman's girlfriend, and she's a friend of Pamela Anderson (who's also Sa'ami), and they have a couple of other friends they get together with to party and they are also Sa'ami ~ and it runs down hill from there.

This is the Swedish crowd so they're probably all Tiger Woods' ex-wife's cousins and friends as well.

39 posted on 11/14/2010 4:55:52 PM PST by muawiyah (GIT OUT THE WAY ~ REPUBLICANS COMIN' THROUGH)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: decimon

Right, it was two peoples, like the Angles and Saxons. The Angles invented triangles and rectangles, before that there were just squares. And the Saxons invented the saxophone. Very jazzy combination. No squares, just hot sax.


40 posted on 11/14/2010 4:56:58 PM PST by bvw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Frantzie; blam
I never considered the eyes "squinty" ~ they're just normal ~ but there's some extra eyelids you can bring down to keep your eyes from freezing ~ plus, you can blink "up" with the lower part under the eye.

Now that's an advantage and a half.

Fur Shur the Sa'ami all have eyes that can be hidden deep within the warmer recesses of the skull.

41 posted on 11/14/2010 4:59:12 PM PST by muawiyah (GIT OUT THE WAY ~ REPUBLICANS COMIN' THROUGH)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

Benjamin Franklin has mtDNA haplogroup ‘V’ same as me and my mom. So....


42 posted on 11/14/2010 5:00:26 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: blam

Latest thoughts on the way agriculture moved into the North Country is that it had to first move uphill in the mountains. Cold tolerant varieties had to be developed. That pretty much kept the Indo-Europeans out of Fenno Scandia until the middle of the First Century BCE. At the same time pastoralists did move in earlier ~ with sheep but not cattle. Took a good while to develop a cold tolerant cow ~ although they may have brought some back from the Yakuts.


43 posted on 11/14/2010 5:04:19 PM PST by muawiyah (GIT OUT THE WAY ~ REPUBLICANS COMIN' THROUGH)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

Kirsten Dunst.

http://www.topnews.in/files/Kirsten_Dunst.jpg

Also pretty. The eyes are slightly less rounded. Not a negative or positive just different. It is weird because when I watched Renee Zellwger it movies like when she plays the chubby Brit (Bridget Jones) or other films. I always thought somebody get this girl some contacts or glasses so she stops squinting.

She, Kirsten and Pam Anderson are all very pretty. Pam Anderson was gorgeous before she did all that freaked out surgery when she was much younger.

So Sa’ami could be in Finland, Sweden and Norway as Zellweger is supposed Norwegian. Most in Finland. She looks great in that picture - she could have married me over that sissy boy Chesney. He plays for the other team.


44 posted on 11/14/2010 5:10:26 PM PST by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah; Frantzie

I have a brother who looks like Richard Gere and I always thought Richard had a ‘squinty eyed’ thing going on. My brother’s was even more squinty than Richard’s and his two very blonde boys are even more so. We all have a signature, bright blue eyes...almost to bright


45 posted on 11/14/2010 5:12:02 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: decimon

I was gonna say this dude is no Sa’ami because Finns etc are usually very smart. He is no dummy cause his kid is worth supposedly hundreds of millions.

I wonder if early men wore mullets too. The guy in the picture could be his brother. LOL!


46 posted on 11/14/2010 5:12:11 PM PST by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

Interesting. I was not judging the eyes but it is about the only way the lay person can tell. If you know the family came from somewhere in Scandinavia it might be a tip. I wonder if the facial structure is slightly different. I think all those women have higher cheekbones as well.

Obviously a genetic adaptation due to the cold in the Lapp region. I wonder why people stayed that far north and if the Ice Age made any difference.


47 posted on 11/14/2010 5:23:41 PM PST by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
The Finnish word for "100" is sata. The Estonian word is similar--sada.

This would seem to be a loanword from an Indo-European language--the Avestan word for 100 is satem, and in several modern Slavic languages the word is sto. This corresponds to the word for 100 in the so-called centum languages (Latin "100 = centum, Greek hekaton, etc.)--there is a pattern of words which have an "s" in Indo-Iranian, Baltic, and Slavic, which have a "k" sound in Greek, Latin, Celtic, etc. (in the Germanic languages the "k" becomes an "h")--for example, Greek kardia for "heart" vs. Russian serdtse or Latvian sirds.

Getting back to the Finnish word for "100" it would appear they didn't have a word for that number so they borrowed it from some ancient Iranian or Slavic speaker. The Scythians were Iranian-speaking and lived north of the Black Sea.

48 posted on 11/14/2010 5:26:44 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Frantzie
Lots of fish there, and reindeer, and lingonberries in season. I believe the big archaeological concern at the moment is the existence of a group that got trapped in Northern Scandinavia during the Younger Dryas. They ate lots and lots and lots of seal!

Problem with that is it has 25 times as much iron as any other mammal. So, you eat nothing but seal your body needs a way to get rid of the excess iron. I think you've seen those guys with copper colored arms underlain with iron deposits ~ probably that, and also Intermittent Scandinavian Porphyria ~ plus 82 other different main gene sets for liver function.

At these latitudes all those folks are deficient in B-12 (and some other B vitamins, but mostly B-12).

The ladies have a rounder face than people to the Souf' in Europe ~ those with a shot of Indo-European ancestry. That pronounced cheek bone is a recurrent theme though and can sometimes get out of hand ~ plus dental dysplasia (naturally missing, or extremely crooked teeth) is a hallmark. One survey found that 18% of Sa'ami had three or more natural teeth that never came in!

I have a big bunch of cousins who can pass for Skolt Sa'ami, but most Sa'ami in Europe are found in Norway and speak Northern Sa'ami language.

The Scandinavians have take two approaches to the Sa'ami over the centuries. First they tried to ship them out to America ~ and secondly they tried to force them to become good little Finns, Swedes or Norwegians.

More recently they've given up that stuff.

49 posted on 11/14/2010 5:37:55 PM PST by muawiyah (GIT OUT THE WAY ~ REPUBLICANS COMIN' THROUGH)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: blam
Gere has them but I do not know if he is Sa'ami. He smirks a lot too. (g) It is funny how your brother's sons have inherited it. Cool. I wonder after sucessive generations if it disappears. Here is Kirsten Dunst.

Looking very lovely. http://www.topnews.in/files/Kirsten_Dunst.jpg

Some people say almost Asian but I wonder if people in northern Asia has the same adaptation due to the cold or Eskimos??? It is and she is very attractive.

Sadly she like Obama. Ann Margaret - very Swedish as just got off the boat when she made Elvis movies practically. Sa'ami? Smoking gorgeous back in the day. http://www.vintageculture.net/images/ann-margaret11.jpg Watch some Renee Z's films. I swear the girl needs glasses - it looks like she is squinting. Kimi Raikkonen who is Finnish has almost white or silver eyes. Almost like ice. I knew a Norwegian American girl. Very blonde and blue eyes but she had some eye problems. I am not sure it it was genetic.

50 posted on 11/14/2010 5:40:31 PM PST by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-76 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson