Skip to comments.Sea Level Could Rise in South, Fall in North
Posted on 12/02/2010 5:02:44 PM PST by PROCON
Climate change is expected to cause sea levels to rise -- at least in some parts of the world. Elsewhere, the level of the ocean will actually fall. Scientists are trying to get a better picture of the complex phenomenon, which also depends on a host of natural factors.
When presented as a globe, the Earth looks as round and smooth as a billiard ball. To anyone standing on a beach, the ocean looks as flat as a pancake.
But perception is deceptive. "In reality, the water in the oceans wobbles all over the place," says oceanographer Detlef Stammer. He isn't talking about waves, but large-scale bulges and bumps in the sea level.
(Excerpt) Read more at spiegel.de ...
Thanks to all FR science types for your input on this hypothesis.
This must have been what Randi Rhoades was talking about when she said she hoped Rush Limbaugh’s house would wash away.
So, AGW Scientists (and I use that word LOOSELY) are trying to blame a potential problem on one man made hoax, instead of "a host of natural factors". Am I missing something?
The sea level has been going up and down since the beginning of time. If the sea rises, buy a houseboat. If the sea sevel goes down, dig clams & be happy. So what’s the problem?
Operative word: “COULD”. Any idiot can predict that something COULD happen.
Good grief - do we really have to go over this again?
The Earth revolves around the sun. The moon affects the oceans’ tides.
Then there’s gravity.
Speaking of which - its a La Nina winter like 1955
♫ The waves on the sea go up and down, up and down, up and down ... ♫
Are you telling me the ocean rises in one spot and falls in another and you expect me to believe it???
Sorry, copied the wrong address. :) Must be my frozen fingers.
La Nina 1955 conditions
I'll bite, where?
Said Euro trash:
Do they say anything about that?
That’s the Bay of Fundy famous for its’ tides.
The very ground itself rises and falls all the time, especially along the coastline.
Some continents, the ocean rises on one coast while it is falling on the other.
The oceans are fairly constant, and do not change their median level. What happens is that the ground (the crust) moves, and makes it appear that the sea is rising or falling.
Just look at the volcanoes that pop up out of the ocean. If you measured sea level around their perimeter, you could conclude the ocean was falling.
This article can’t be right.
“For instance, while seas have risen by about 15 centimeters in the tropical Western Pacific, the ocean near San Francisco has fallen by about the same amount.”
They are NOT talking about tides.
Thanks for your input, FRiend!
They aren’t talking about tides. The photo I posted was intended to illustrate that water levels can be high in one area and low in another at the same time. The issue in the comparison between the tropical Pacific and the cold waters off SF has to do with thermal expansion in warmer waters...
Yano, this could be true. Just the other night I made a pile of water on the right side of my bathtub, about three inches high.
So it makes perfect sense for one part of, say, the Pacific, to stick up several feet over the other parts, or for there to be a hole in the water somewhere.
After all, AGW causes floods, droughts, rain, hurricanes, and lack of hurricanes.
Might be out of context, but it was funny :-)
If my aunt had balls she woulda been my uncle..........
But I digress, if the Greenland ice sheet were to melt completely, the global temperature of this planet would be so high that life as we know it would probably have died off long before Iceland melted into the sea.........
But I was and it carries as much weight as the story
There is something known as "ice age rebound" which is and has been occuring in near-arctic and near antarctic latitudes for many centuries. Old ports along the Finnish coast, for example, are in some cases now high and dry, a kilometer away from today's coastline. The compression caused by the overburden of ice during the ice-age is still "springing back." Finland's land area is literally GROWING by some 2-3 square mile per year, and this phenomenon is true across the northern lands. Which means land must be disappearing SOMEWHERE else.
If the sea recedes in one place, it MUST rise somewhere else, whether Global Warming is occuring or not...... the question is what aspect of sea-rise is due to this factor and what is due to GW, and how is it measured?
Thanks for your input, I learn a lot here!..:=)
I may not be the smartest person around, but if all the oceans and major seas are interconnected, how could the levels vary other than local miniscule changes due to gravitational variations or tidal effects?
Some very smart FReepers have already responded to some of your questions and I usually have the REAL scientific types respond in due course, stay tuned..:=)
This is great news. Now I won’t have to worry a low tide will keep me from getting my sailboat in and out of the bayou.
The earth is out of balance again.
It’s probably because all of our money is now in China, thus causing a tilt in that direction.
We just need to go take it back. It’s not rocket science.
Thanks FRiend for your input!
Also of course, the movements of the oceans are a dynamical response to this time-variable force. The North Atlantic swirls, with the line of high tide sweeping like an arm from Spain, along Great Britain and the North Sea. The center of the swirl is an Amphidromic Point east of Newfoundland.
As the ironic sense is plain, and you are expressing disbelief in such things, I believe this is a good example of the rhetorical category of Argument from Ignorance.
I used to wonder about that term, since it was hard to imagine how you would make such an argument, but I have noticed that expressions of disbelief such as yours fall into this category. It's basically the reaction of "Who ever heard of such a thing!"
Outside of tides and wind and current, I do indeed find it odd that part of an ocean can hump up in one place for any length of time. Even odder to think that the effect is caused by Global Warming.
What is Algor’s favorite island- the Maldives? The ocean has been humping up there for a while.
And NPR had a piece on one spot on the West African coast where the sea level was rising. But only there, apparently.
And yet I run across people who think that the Pacific is higher than the Atlantic, because you need locks to navigate the Panama Canal.
It takes a FReeper to explain it all.....thanks for the information
This has slightly different charts.
People who look at Earth rotation rate show very little actual ocean rise, it’s all local due to, may I use an unscientific term, sloshing about of the water.
It's safe to assume the author has never actually been to a beach.
This is supposed to be due to the varying density of seawater caused by variation in temperature and salinity. The article states, "In the Indian Ocean, the sea level is about 100 meters (330 feet) below the average, while the waters around Iceland are 60 meters above the average." That does seem like a lot. I find the density of seawater density due to salinity is considered to vary between 1020 and 1029 kg/m3, so a 10.29 km column of the former would weigh as much as a 10.20 km column of the latter, but this only gives me 90 meters, so I have questions too! ... but I think this is the idea.
The island of Santorini has the strangest feature that I never figured out. You can get off a ship in the port and drive up switchbacks several hundred feet. Then you drive straight across a plane to a beach on the other side of the island. I suppose the only explanation is that the plane is actually a downward slope, but it doesn't seem like it.
I have no particular argument with the slide show. If it seeks to emphasize the compications and uncertainties in the matter, I think this is entirely justified. I am alarmed by the conversion of such tenuous conclusions and predictions into absolutist and even hysterical propaganda campaigns, and of course it goes much further than that.
WRT earth’s rotation, I suppose this refers to the slowing rate of same. This slowing is of course, very slow. The nominal rotation rate causes an equatorial bulge of about 20 miles, and this value is proportional to the rotation rate itself. So, a dimunition of say, 1 second, in the length of the day would cause a decrease of 1/86400 * 20 miles or about .4 meters. But the rate of slowing is given as about 2 ms/day/century, which means it will take about 50,000 years to create this .4 meter difference. Well, that’s not so long! If we go back to the dinosaurs ... my goodness!
I believe the explanation is as you suggest. The perception of slope is very subjective. Even in routine highway driving it is difficult to tell when you reach the peak of crest, and when you see the upslope ahead of you when driving a downslope it looks much steeper than it seems when you drive up it. Conversely, the downslope in the rearview mirror looks steeper than it felt when you were just coming down it.
I’ve experienced the same things while biking in mountains, especially through canyons. Your eyes tell you one thing about whether you are climbing or decending. And your legs tell you otherwise. The next time I do it, I plan to tape a small carpenter’s level to my top tube.
I mentioned earth rate because there are people who calculate mean sea level (with the sloshing averaged out) by looking at the rotation rate.
I can’t find the reference now, but basically the mean sea level changes are as expected (1 to 3 mm per year) with one anomaly, and that was a sea level drop in the 1970’s attributed to evaporation.
I share your concern that basic science has become a propaganda tool. Well, maybe not “has become”, it probably always was, but communication and travel advances have given us a global reach so the consequences and stakes are larger.
In other words Gaia will punish evil avaricious capitalist nations like South Korea with rising seas and inundated coastlines while sparing countries with enlightened ledership pursuing a reduced human population through mass starvation like North Korea.