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Abortion: A fetus doesn’t care
The Tower of Light ^ | 09 December 2010 | David Zuckerman

Posted on 12/09/2010 8:48:32 AM PST by Lorianne

Seeing as I just discussed murder, it seems fitting to next discuss abortion, as abortion is murder. When you get an abortion, you are killing a living organism, something that had the potential to become a fully-developed human being. I understand the perspective of the pro-life movement.

However, we kill living things all the time. We chop down trees to build our homes, we kill rodents and insects when they intrude said homes, we kill fish and other animals for sport and for nutrition purposes, and neither microorganism nor mouse is safe in Smith Hall; they are constantly killed for educational and research purposes.

We murder organisms we deem inferior to us without hesitance every day, and I personally believe fetuses fit into this category.

We do not have emotion for the reproductive gametes before they combine. When a man masturbates, I would be surprised to learn that he mourns the death of his sperm, as they die shortly after ejaculation. However, once a sperm cell combines with an egg and has the potential to become a human, people become very emotional, despite the fact that it is not a person during the first trimester, the time in which abortions are permitted.

During the first trimester, a fetus has no idea what is happening, as its brain is not developed enough for such advanced forms of awareness, thought and emotion. In the first trimester, a growing fetus cannot possibly understand what life is. It does not understand that it is being deprived of anything when an abortion is taking place. If my parents aborted my birth, I would not have been upset, as I could not have experienced any emotions during those early weeks of life.

Although it could be argued that I would be missing out on future experiences, I would not have been aware of this deprivation and would therefore not have experienced this deprivation.

Aside: If, for example, a wife cheats on her husband, but the husband never becomes aware of the affair, I would argue that this duplicity is not bad for the husband. If the wife is still loving and the husband is still happy, and if no one that knows about this affair negatively alters their behavior toward this man, he is unaffected. Yes, those aware of this affair would say that their relationship is not as strong because of this lie, but the man is still happily oblivious to it all. According to this train of thought, a fetus early in development, oblivious to everything, surely cannot emotionally suffer from an abortion.

And even if I was aware of what was happening, I do not think I would want to exist if my life was a mistake. I would not want to be a burden on a young woman still in high school. I would not want to limit the freedom of a young couple, one that may not want a child yet and may be financially unstable. And I would certainly not want to be the resulting reward of rape.

We wear condoms and take birth control in the attempt to prevent childbirth. Just because these precautionary measures fail does not mean women should be forced to suffer through carrying a child for nine months and undergo a painful and potentially fatal delivery.

Some that cannot raise a child on their own put their children up for adoption, but why force another to potentially grow up in an orphanage? We are overpopulated enough as it is.

To create life is a major responsibility; people should not have children unless they believe they can care for their children and make them happy. Life is hard even when one has loving parents with the best intentions. Life is filled with unfulfilled desires, never-ending stress (especially so close to finals) and disappointments. I do not know if I want to be responsible for putting another human being through the hardships that accompany existence.


TOPICS: Education; Society
KEYWORDS: 50milliondead; abortion; antibreeder; cultureofdeath; davidzuckerman; deathindustry; genocide; infanticide; leftuniverse; liberalism; lifehate; mentaldisorder; moralabsolutes; prodeath; prolife; zuckerman
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I post this only to highlight the level of critical thinking going on in supposedly educated people attending colleges across the land
1 posted on 12/09/2010 8:48:35 AM PST by Lorianne
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To: Lorianne

There was a time and place where people named “Zuckerman” fit in to that category too.


2 posted on 12/09/2010 8:50:40 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Lorianne

I really don’t know how to respond to such naked, abject, unadulterated evilness.


3 posted on 12/09/2010 8:51:42 AM PST by Celtic Cross (I AM the Impeccable Hat. (AKA The Pope's Hat))
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To: massgopguy
Wow good point. It's even more powerful next to the statement that you're replying to.

"We murder organisms we deem inferior to us without hesitance every day"

There was a time and place where people named “Zuckerman” fit in to that category too.

4 posted on 12/09/2010 8:53:05 AM PST by Christian Engineer Mass (Leftys who zone in on Palin miss the point. America's not about single figures. That's for NK/Cuba.)
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To: Lorianne
"the fact that it is not a person during the first trimester"

"The FACT"????

Oh, really? >:-(

Psalm 139 (NIV)
13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.


If God believes we are 'persons' at conception, then that's good enough for me. Enough of this justification for murdering innocents in the womb. >:-(
5 posted on 12/09/2010 8:56:48 AM PST by pillut48 (Israel doesn't have a friend in President Obama...and neither does the USA! (h/t pgkdan))
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To: Lorianne
I understand the perspective of the pro-life movement.

Clearly he doesn't.

6 posted on 12/09/2010 8:56:53 AM PST by trad_anglican
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To: Lorianne

What a knucklehead. Wonder who he voted for. And do you have a link straight to the article. The one atop brings up an error message for me.


7 posted on 12/09/2010 9:00:37 AM PST by mlizzy (Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee ...)
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To: Lorianne; 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; Amos the Prophet; ..
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


8 posted on 12/09/2010 9:02:54 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Lorianne

“Although it could be argued that I would be missing out on future experiences, I would not have been aware of this deprivation and would therefore not have experienced this deprivation.”

oh, okay then. well argued. Critical thinking indeed. As they say, only a degreed college egghead could frame this sort of tortured argument. A sixth grader could shoot it down. I listen quietly to educated liberals talk and I’m frequently shocked by their intellectual shallowness. How did universities reward these morons with BAs, doctorates, PhDs?


9 posted on 12/09/2010 9:07:52 AM PST by moodyskeptic (Cultural warrior with a keyboard)
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To: Lorianne

he basically argues that anything done in secrecy will cause no harm, whether adultery or whatever.

I wonder if he’d argue that it’s ok for a mother to painlessly kill her six month baby in his sleep.

Based on his view of life, I wonder why caring what the fetus thinks should even matter.


10 posted on 12/09/2010 9:08:02 AM PST by MNDude (Legalize drugs! Ban the Happy Meal!)
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To: Lorianne
a fetus has no idea what is happening, as its brain is not developed enough for such advanced forms of awareness, thought and emotion. In the first trimester, a growing fetus cannot possibly understand what life is. It does not understand that it is being deprived of anything when an abortion is taking place.

God gave the natural right to life to human life in all its forms.Whether the form has passed a certain threshold of age or awareness is irrelevant.

11 posted on 12/09/2010 9:09:09 AM PST by mjp ((pro-{God, reality, reason, egoism, individualism, natural rights, limited government, capitalism}))
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To: Lorianne
During the first trimester, a fetus has no idea what is happening, as its brain is not developed enough for such advanced forms of awareness, thought and emotion.

So murder is OK as long as the victim does not know he is being killed. So if a murder victim does not see his assailant take aim and fire, and if the victim's brains are instantly blown out by the high caliber projectile then its OK because he never knew he was being killed.

Brilliant! This should make a perfectly good legal defense in many drive by shootings, mafia hits, political assassinations ...

And does this mean Lee Harvey Oswald did nothing wrong?

12 posted on 12/09/2010 9:10:04 AM PST by Upstate NY Guy (Gen 15:16 The iniquity of the Amorite is not yet complete.)
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To: Lorianne

What an idiot. Singer extended this logic all the way up to 6 months after a child is born. And I got news for Zuckerman, abortion is legal up to 9 months and I don’t see him arguing for limiting abortion to the first trimester. He would have more credibility if he did, not his arguments, but his willingness to put himself on the line to ban abortion after the first trimester because the fetus then becomes a person. He will never do this, he cares to much about liberal approval and so he really is ok with all abortions, not just those in the first trimester.


13 posted on 12/09/2010 9:12:30 AM PST by HerrBlucher (Defund, repeal, investigate, impeach, convict, jail, celebrate.)
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To: Lorianne; wagglebee
We murder organisms we deem inferior to us without hesitance every day, and I personally believe fetuses fit into this category.

The Left is the Left is the Left. They exterminate that which does not fit in their world.

14 posted on 12/09/2010 9:14:03 AM PST by a fool in paradise (The establishment clause isn't just against my OWN government establishing state religion in America)
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To: Lorianne

With all due respect to this obviously much more enlightened than I fellow......how the hell do you know what another human being wants? Really? Do you know that I want you to go soak your head?


15 posted on 12/09/2010 9:14:19 AM PST by mockingbyrd (Remember in November.)
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To: Lorianne

Critical thinking was designed by Cultural Marxists and inserted into the Universities to destroy Western Civilization. It kills logic and reason and science (John Locke/St. Thomas Aquinas) which was the foundation of the prevailing Christian paradigm that we had in the US until the 50’s when the minds of children were being transformed into mush.

This secular humanism (turn to collective thought and conformity) was written about by William F. Buckley, Jr. in Man and God at Yale(1950) where a once Christian college was producing Keynesian Marxists (on purpose). He was rightly alarmed, as we see the results of MOST universities have adopted the Darwin, Marx model and all elementary schools teach cognitive dissonance (no logic in thinking) to even those in Kindergarten.

Destroy their knowledge base with junk and lies (Heather has two mommies) and children will be unable to process information. Ex-KGB agents had reported the infiltration in the media and schools in the 70’s. The promotion of drugs and sex in media and schools is to create a dysfunctional society who need a master.

My advice: Get your children and grandchildren out of public schools and away from the television which glorifies evil and makes fun of the good.

Children are conditioned—like Pavlov’s dogs. The Marxists combined Freud and all of psychological thinking and inserted it into a cultural Marxism to destroy marriage (the natural family) and Christianity (the force for individual rights and dignity to a human being).

They destroyed Christianity in South and Central America by twisting it with Marxist ideology—calling it Liberation Theology. It is what our Marxist commmander in chief attended for 20 years. It is demonic according to the Pope.

Alinsky and the one worship the devil.....small surprise there.


16 posted on 12/09/2010 9:14:42 AM PST by savagesusie
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To: Lorianne
Aside: If, for example, a wife cheats on her husband, but the husband never becomes aware of the affair, I would argue that this duplicity is not bad for the husband. If the wife is still loving and the husband is still happy, and if no one that knows about this affair negatively alters their behavior toward this man, he is unaffected.

He's a cuckold and those who do know of his ignorance and his wife's infidelity think him a sap and an idiot. But I guess it's okay because he's ignorant.

17 posted on 12/09/2010 9:15:28 AM PST by a fool in paradise (The establishment clause isn't just against my OWN government establishing state religion in America)
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To: Lorianne
And even if I was aware of what was happening, I do not think I would want to exist if my life was a mistake. I would not want to be a burden on a young woman still in high school.

There are kids who learn at some point in their life that they are a "mistake". None of them wish that they were dead.

18 posted on 12/09/2010 9:16:25 AM PST by a fool in paradise (The establishment clause isn't just against my OWN government establishing state religion in America)
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To: Celtic Cross

This argument is evil. From this point, it really is not much of a leap to euthanasia, and ultimately putting people to death for their own good, to save them from suffering... and then “for the good of the people...”
-And we have arrived at the logic of Joseph Stalin.


19 posted on 12/09/2010 9:16:30 AM PST by Wildbill22
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To: Lorianne
Kill the mother and save the child, Neuter the father, this makes as much sense as abortion.
20 posted on 12/09/2010 9:16:50 AM PST by mountainlion (concerned conservative.)
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To: moodyskeptic
His argument would as easily fit the situation where the victim is in bed asleep and Zuckerman slips in quietly and blows his brains out with a shotgun.

This guy is a mental defective.

21 posted on 12/09/2010 9:18:41 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: moodyskeptic
His argument would as easily fit the situation where the victim is in bed asleep and Zuckerman slips in quietly and blows his brains out with a shotgun.

This guy is a mental defective.

22 posted on 12/09/2010 9:19:03 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: moodyskeptic
“Although it could be argued that I would be missing out on future experiences, I would not have been aware of this deprivation and would therefore not have experienced this deprivation.”

Take the Dead Kennedy's message to heart then and kill the poor. It wouldn't be a "quality" life. No more poverty. Problem solved, if you can live with yourself...

23 posted on 12/09/2010 9:19:03 AM PST by a fool in paradise (The establishment clause isn't just against my OWN government establishing state religion in America)
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To: Lorianne

Trees, rodents, insects, fish, and human fetuses: it’s all the same to the brilliant and enlightened like Zuckerman.


24 posted on 12/09/2010 9:19:48 AM PST by windsorknot
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To: savagesusie
Alinsky and the one worship the devil.....small surprise there.

Lest anyone think your are joking, Saul Alinsky dedicated Rules For Radicals to Lucifer.

25 posted on 12/09/2010 9:21:03 AM PST by a fool in paradise (The establishment clause isn't just against my OWN government establishing state religion in America)
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To: a fool in paradise
I guess the author is unaware that seventy years ago his last name alone would have placed him in the "inferior" (actually he would have been labeled something like a "subhuman") category and he would have been murdered.
26 posted on 12/09/2010 9:22:05 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Lorianne
However, we kill living things all the time. We chop down trees to build our homes, we kill rodents and insects when they intrude said homes, we kill fish and other animals for sport and for nutrition purposes, and neither microorganism nor mouse is safe in Smith Hall; they are constantly killed for educational and research purposes. We murder organisms we deem inferior to us without hesitance every day, and I personally believe fetuses fit into this category.

We do not have emotion for the reproductive gametes before they combine. When a man masturbates, I would be surprised to learn that he mourns the death of his sperm, as they die shortly after ejaculation. However, once a sperm cell combines with an egg and has the potential to become a human, people become very emotional, despite the fact that it is not a person during the first trimester, the time in which abortions are permitted.

******************************

Zuckerman seems to have surpassed even Peter Singer in his lack of regard for human beings.

27 posted on 12/09/2010 9:25:46 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Lorianne

“Before I formed you in the belly, I knew you. Before you came forth out of the womb, I sanctified you”
~ Jeremiah 1:5


28 posted on 12/09/2010 9:26:22 AM PST by PATRIOT1876 (The only crimes that are 100% preventable are crimes committed by illegal aliens)
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To: Lorianne

So the main point of the author is that the fetus’ lack of awareness makes it ok....

so, if i were to walk up behind the author and shoot him in the back of the head thus killing him instantly, the fact that he was unaware of what just happened would make his murder ok with him?

Wow, how do you argue with that logic?


29 posted on 12/09/2010 9:26:54 AM PST by Shamrock498
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To: Lorianne

Another educated idiot with frightenly Nazi-like immoral beliefs.


30 posted on 12/09/2010 9:27:09 AM PST by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: Lorianne
It would appear that some adult at Towson has taken this down. Wow. Intrinscally Evil indeed.


In the eyes of candid (instead of hiding behind neutral words like "choice") "enlightened progressives", this child is no different than a tree, rodent, insect, fish, animal, microorganism or mouse ... organisms "we" (and who is 'we' mr. future death panelist?) deem inferior to 'us' (meaning: the statist marxist/socialist government party superiors).

Now that's blatant intrinsic evil for all to see.

31 posted on 12/09/2010 9:30:57 AM PST by Servant of the Cross (I'm with Jim DeMint ... on the fringe!)
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To: Lorianne

Hmm...I don’t think that the emotional well-being of the fetus is really the primary driver behind anti-abortion arguments. If you walk up to somebody on the street and shoot them in the head, nobody’s going to much care about the damage you did to their emotions. It’s the fact that you killed them that is the problem.


32 posted on 12/09/2010 9:31:06 AM PST by Junior_G (Funny how liberals' love affair with Muslims began on 9/11)
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To: Lorianne
We murder organisms we deem inferior to us without hesitance every day, and I personally believe fetuses fit into this category.

Life unworthy of life? Is that the premise being presented? I've heard that expression somewhere...I remember, that is the phrase the Nazis used to try to convince the masses exterminating the handicapped was the right thing to do.

33 posted on 12/09/2010 9:31:06 AM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: Lorianne

Disgusting. The author of this outrageous piece should be aborted immediately.


34 posted on 12/09/2010 9:33:22 AM PST by Outlaw Woman (Lock & Load-Coming to a Neighborhood near you)
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To: Outlaw Woman

See if this link works:
http://www.thetowerlight.com/2010/12/abortion-a-fetus-doesn%E2%80%99t-care/

There is a comments section but you have to register to comment.


35 posted on 12/09/2010 9:36:06 AM PST by Lorianne (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ___ George Orwell)
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To: Lorianne

If a murderer humanely renders his victim unconscious that victim doesn’t care if he or she is murdered, either. Does that make murder okay as long as it is done humanely?


36 posted on 12/09/2010 9:36:40 AM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: Lorianne

It boils down to belief in the soul.If you believe there is a soul there you know it is wrong. I’m sick of the argument about rape! The baby didn’t do it. If I were to be a victim of rape, I wouldn’t blame the child or be ashamed of he or she. My first stop wouldn’t be the abortion center, my first stop would be a lawyer to make sure the rapist never got custody of MY child!!!


37 posted on 12/09/2010 9:39:08 AM PST by sanjoaquinvalley (Longtime Lady Lurker)
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To: a fool in paradise

He’s a cuckold and those who do know of his ignorance and his wife’s infidelity think him a sap and an idiot. But I guess it’s okay because he’s ignorant.

And when years later he dies of AIDs not ever knowing how he got it.


38 posted on 12/09/2010 9:41:47 AM PST by Help!
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To: Christian Engineer Mass

>>”We murder organisms we deem inferior to us without hesitance every day”

>>There was a time and place where people named “Zuckerman” fit in to that category too.

Thanks. Quickly scanning, I had missed that.


39 posted on 12/09/2010 9:44:20 AM PST by deks ("...the battle of our time is the battle of liberty against the overreach of the federal government")
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To: Ol' Sparky

That was my thought about his logic.

If the criteria is “they are not aware what is a happening to them”, that could apply to anyone. You could slip anyone a narcotic, say in food or drink, and when they are unconscious you kill them.

Following Zuckerman’s ‘logic’ (such as it is), since the person has no idea of what is happening, or about to happen, it is OK.


40 posted on 12/09/2010 9:44:26 AM PST by Lorianne (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ___ George Orwell)
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To: Lorianne

It would seem that the author believes that .. If you ignore or are unaware of evil .. evil does not exists!

So-o-o .. If I am unaware or just ignore that train ‘barreling’ down upon me .. it will just go away or better yet .. It just wont exist!?

(Gotta remember this .. when my taxes come due! 8)


41 posted on 12/09/2010 9:44:54 AM PST by plinyelder ("I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born." -- Ronald Reagan)
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Bump!


42 posted on 12/09/2010 9:46:58 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Lorianne

“During the first trimester, a fetus has no idea what is happening, as its brain is not developed enough for such advanced forms of awareness, thought and emotion. In the first trimester, a growing fetus cannot possibly understand what life is. It does not understand that it is being deprived of anything when an abortion is taking place. If my parents aborted my birth, I would not have been upset, as I could not have experienced any emotions during those early weeks of life.

Although it could be argued that I would be missing out on future experiences, I would not have been aware of this deprivation and would therefore not have experienced this deprivation. “
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

Okay for the sake of argument I will agree with this man. Let us suppose the fetus, because of spinal development did not feel pain, did not know what happened and died never knowing life. I will buy it.

Here is what I want to know. The abortionist and the nurses that saw the fetus in the first trimester come out in “parts” and had to “put it back together” (unless it was done by RU486 and came out in one piece) and they saw this fully formed human fetus. They saw life that “could have been, and they knew they just murdered it. How do they look at themselves in the mirror each day?

Now multiply this by how many abortions done in that clinic alone?

How do these abortionist and nurses even get out of bed in the morning?


43 posted on 12/09/2010 9:47:01 AM PST by Wile E Coyote Genius (IQ 206....more than all Democrats combined)
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To: Lorianne
Aside: If, for example, a wife cheats on her husband, but the husband never becomes aware of the affair, I would argue that this duplicity is not bad for the husband. If the wife is still loving and the husband is still happy, and if no one that knows about this affair negatively alters their behavior toward this man, he is unaffected. Yes, those aware of this affair would say that their relationship is not as strong because of this lie, but the man is still happily oblivious to it all. According to this train of thought, a fetus early in development, oblivious to everything, surely cannot emotionally suffer from an abortion.

Anyone. Anyone who thinks like this cannot be trusted to add his check book correctly, let alone be taken seriously on moral questions.

First off, a "loving" wife is not going to cheat. Second, whether the husband ever finds out, or not, depends on too many things that the wife cannot control. Her "morality" depends on the actions of others. There's something just WRONG about that.

Third, even assuming that he never finds out, she has to live the lie for the rest of her life, or his. That's got to be hard on someone that is truly sorry. Or is she just going to continue to cheat while being "loving" at home?

Fourthly, would she feel the same way if she was the cuckqueen? Fifthly, since when did right and wrong depend on emotions?

44 posted on 12/09/2010 10:11:18 AM PST by chesley (Eat what you want, and die like a man.)
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To: Lorianne
Oh, and one other thing

To create life is a major responsibility; people should not have children unless they believe they can care for their children and make them happy. Life is hard even when one has loving parents with the best intentions. Life is filled with unfulfilled desires, never-ending stress (especially so close to finals) and disappointments. I do not know if I want to be responsible for putting another human being through the hardships that accompany existence.

Perhaps there should have been one other "unfulfilled desire", if you know what I mean.

45 posted on 12/09/2010 10:13:42 AM PST by chesley (Eat what you want, and die like a man.)
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To: Lorianne; All

This link seems to work:

http://www.thetowerlight.com/2010/12/abortion-a-fetus-doesn%E2%80%99t-care/


46 posted on 12/09/2010 10:42:46 AM PST by Lorianne (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ___ George Orwell)
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To: Lorianne

The man left God out of the mix. I guess the existence or will of God means nothing to him.

It will.


47 posted on 12/09/2010 10:50:28 AM PST by Do Not Make Fun Of His Ears (The "11th Commandment" applies to Republicans, not RINOs.)
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To: chesley; The Comedian
"To create life is a major responsibility; people should not have children unless they believe they can care for their children and make them happy."

No mention of the expense.

"I do not know if I want to be responsible for putting another human being through the hardships that accompany existence."

But forcing hard working Americans to "share the wealth" with deadbeats is OK.

48 posted on 12/09/2010 10:51:39 AM PST by a fool in paradise (The establishment clause isn't just against my OWN government establishing state religion in America)
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To: Do Not Make Fun Of His Ears

Abortion: A liberal doesn’t care.


49 posted on 12/09/2010 10:52:36 AM PST by a fool in paradise (The establishment clause isn't just against my OWN government establishing state religion in America)
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To: moodyskeptic

““Although it could be argued that I would be missing out on future experiences, I would not have been aware of this deprivation and would therefore not have experienced this deprivation.”

So I guess if somebody decided to play God and end HIS life, he could say the same thing about himself.

What an arrogant idiot.


50 posted on 12/09/2010 10:53:02 AM PST by Do Not Make Fun Of His Ears (The "11th Commandment" applies to Republicans, not RINOs.)
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