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Genome of extinct Siberian cave-dweller linked to modern-day humans
EurekaAlert.org ^ | 22-Dec-2010 | Bobbie Mixon, National Science Foundation

Posted on 12/23/2010 10:27:59 AM PST by LucyT

Sequencing of ancient DNA reveals new hominin population that is neither Neanderthal nor modern human

Researchers have discovered evidence of a distinct group of "archaic" humans existing outside of Africa more than 30,000 years ago at a time when Neanderthals are thought to have dominated Europe and Asia. But genetic testing shows that members of this new group were not Neanderthals, and they interbred with the ancestors of some modern humans who are alive today.

Until last year, the mainstream view in genetics was that modern humans inherited essentially their entire DNA makeup from Neanderthal-related individuals when they migrated from Africa 40,000-55,000 years ago. It was surmised they completely replaced the humans who migrated before them, including the Neanderthals whose ancestors likely made the pilgrimage hundreds of thousands of years earlier.

The finding, based on Neanderthals discovered at Vindija Cave in Croatia, showed that modern humans outside of Africa are not all descended from a single out-of-Africa migration.

(Excerpt) Read more at eurekalert.org ...


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: denisovans; dna; geneticsequencing; genome; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; multiregionalism; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals
Neanderthals were not completely replaced, but instead contributed 1-4 percent of their genetic material to all modern non-Africans before dying out.

This study also involved contributions from researchers at the Broad Institute of Harvard and Massachusetts Institute of Technology; the University of California at Santa Cruz and Berkeley; the University of Tübingen, Germany; Emory University, Georgia; the University of Montana; the University of Washington; the Institute of Evolutionary Biology, Barcelona, Spain; the Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, Beijing, China; the University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada; and the Institute of Archaeology & Ethnography, Russian Academy of Sciences, Siberian Branch, Novosibirsk, Russia.

1 posted on 12/23/2010 10:28:04 AM PST by LucyT
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To: LucyT
Neanderthal DNA is generally described as about halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee; we could no more interbreed with neanderthals than we could with horses.

That explained the curious lack of any real evidence of crossbreeding which had previously been a big mystery and it totally breaks any sort of a theory of modern man evolving from hominids; all OTHER hominids were significantly more remote from us THAN the neanderthal. This new missing link of the week item appears to be based on one or two finger bones.

The theory of evolution is a bunch of bullshit. Neanderthals and other hominids were very advanced, extinct apes. Being an ape doesn't imply stupidity or ignorance; several of the gorillas which have been taught deaf signs check out as having IQs in the 100 - 105 range, which is adequate for half of American jobs. Being an ape however DOES imply that you are not related to humans other than via similar design parameters.

2 posted on 12/23/2010 10:35:33 AM PST by wendy1946
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Not Neandertal: Genome from fossil fingers a new, recently extinct human

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=not-neandertal-genome-from-fossil-f-2010-12-23


3 posted on 12/23/2010 10:38:35 AM PST by LucyT
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To: wendy1946

Don’t forget that Neanderthals have shown an advanced capability to sell auto insurance.


4 posted on 12/23/2010 10:39:09 AM PST by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
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To: wendy1946

Gee, no agenda on your part.


5 posted on 12/23/2010 10:45:39 AM PST by AlmaKing
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To: AlmaKing

Getting rid of evolution and evoloserism is a pretty good agenda. That doctrine has long since done more harm than it ever should have been allowed to.


6 posted on 12/23/2010 10:57:11 AM PST by wendy1946
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To: LucyT

If I’m found dead in my garage, does that make me extinct?

Popular message on tombstone: She is not dead, but extinct.

Here’s the good news: She is not dead!
Here’s the bad news: She’s extinct!

Biggest question of all: How do you know the difference?


7 posted on 12/23/2010 10:59:38 AM PST by WestwardHo (Whom the gods would destroy, they first drive mad.)
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To: LucyT
Well here's a question, then... if some of the DNA of these Denisovans is found in modern humans, how can one justify claiming that they're extinct?

Their descendants are living in New Guinea.

8 posted on 12/23/2010 11:24:25 AM PST by Oberon (Big Brutha Be Watchin'.)
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To: wendy1946
Alas wendy1946, your theory breaks down when you realize that the natives of New Guinea and White Folks both exist!

They have some Neanderthal genes.

Now, did we evolve or did the evil Doctor Yakub "breed us"?

No, Neanderthals are not halfway between us and chimps. In fact, the chimps are probably not even closely related.

9 posted on 12/23/2010 11:31:43 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: wendy1946
Neanderthal DNA is generally described as about halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee; we could no more interbreed with neanderthals than we could with horses.

No offense, wendy1946, but that is a terrible distortion of the current consensus among physical anthropologists.

Neanderthals have been classified as Homo sapiens neanderthalensis (i.e., they were a subspecies) or as Homo neanderthalensis (i.e., they were a distinct species of Man - the genus Homo).

Regards,

10 posted on 12/23/2010 11:42:47 AM PST by alexander_busek
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To: zot

Genetical tracing.


11 posted on 12/23/2010 11:48:04 AM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: LucyT; wendy1946

Actually this shows that the survivors of the 12 colonies may have arrived more recently that 250,000 years ago. And also inter-married less widely with the resident human population that intimated in the final episode of Battlestar Galactica.


12 posted on 12/23/2010 11:51:33 AM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: alexander_busek

We could probably bred with them but we probably wouldn’t have grandkids with them.


13 posted on 12/23/2010 11:55:33 AM PST by Scanian
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To: GreyFriar

Thanks for the ping. Another glitch in the “out of Africa” theory.


14 posted on 12/23/2010 12:37:45 PM PST by zot
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To: LucyT


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

15 posted on 12/23/2010 12:53:54 PM PST by The Comedian (Government: Saving people from freedom since time immemorial.)
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To: alexander_busek
No offense, wendy1946, but that is a terrible distortion of the current consensus among physical anthropologists.

It's a perfectly accurate statement of the facts.

"He said his team ran four separate tests for authenticity - checking whether other amino acids had survived, making sure the DNA sequences they found did not exist in modern humans, making sure the DNA could be replicated in their own lab and then getting other labs to duplicate their results. Comparisons with the DNA of modern humans and of apes showed the Neanderthal was about halfway between a modern human and a chimpanzee...."

I don't really give a rat's ass what anthropologists might think about it.

16 posted on 12/23/2010 1:20:59 PM PST by wendy1946
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To: wendy1946

Everything you post on evolution threads is out right falsehoods that have been abandoned by most leading young earth creationists.

Try to catch up with the current world view of your religious brethren before spouting off on FR.

Thanks and Merry Xmas,
The Rest of Freeperdom


17 posted on 12/23/2010 2:09:08 PM PST by JerseyHighlander (p.s. The word 'bloggers' is not in the freerepublic spellcheck dictionary?!)
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To: JerseyHighlander

The truth can hurt at time, and you sound like you’re in a lot of pain....


18 posted on 12/23/2010 2:54:45 PM PST by wendy1946
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Thanks LucyT. Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
 

· History topic · history keyword · archaeology keyword · paleontology keyword ·
· Science topic · science keyword · Books/Literature topic · pages keyword ·


19 posted on 12/23/2010 7:14:31 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: AlmaKing; alexander_busek; GreyFriar; JerseyHighlander; LucyT; muawiyah; Oberon; SampleMan; ...
No, Neandertal DNA is NOT halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee. Express India, a tabloid that's more or less in English, is the one and only original source for that idiotic claim, which has been regurgitated on FR a number of times -- and it remains a lie, something prohibited in the Decalogue.
The Neandertal Enigma
by James Shreeve

in local libraries
Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127]

20 posted on 12/23/2010 7:20:15 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: SunkenCiv
The Neanderthal Enigma is a fantastic book. I recommend it a lot.

Neanderthals really are an eigma. They were stronger than us. Their brain was of statistically equal size.

I've often wondered if they had a must faster rate of development, essentially skipping the prolonged adolesence, which is a key feature of modern humans. Going from infant to adult in 2-5 years would be very advantageous to survival in many ways (its hard to imagine any mammal surviving 5-7 years of near helplessnes, coupled with not reaching reproductive maturity until the 13th or 14th year). Fast (normal) growth would developmentally retard intellect for sure.

We may also be assuming improperly that they were less intelligent based on false qualifiers of intelligence. We presume intelligence leads to cooperation and cooperation is evidenced by living in groups, but are wildebeast more intelligent than jaguars? A lack of grouping could explain a lack of tool development (specialization). Of course there are all of the standard theories as well.

21 posted on 12/24/2010 6:29:30 AM PST by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
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To: wendy1946
alexander_busek:

No offense, wendy1946, but that is a terrible distortion of the current consensus among physical anthropologists.

wendy1946:

I don't really give a rat's ass what anthropologists might think about it.

alexander_busek:

Don't you wish to engage in civil discourse?

On the other hand, I suppose you're right. I mean, after all, what could anthropologists possibly have to say of importance on this matter? We laypersons understand more about fossil bone fragments and DNA and stuff like that, right?

Regards,

22 posted on 12/24/2010 6:56:01 AM PST by alexander_busek
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To: alexander_busek

The question was whether or not my claim that Neanderthal DNA is typically described as about halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee was reasonable. I documented the claim and noted that anthropologists would not have anything meaningful to say on the subject and I might should have mentioned the fact that anthropology doesn’t have anything to do with DNA studies but I thought that was sort of obvious.


23 posted on 12/24/2010 7:22:08 AM PST by wendy1946
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To: SampleMan

The survivors of the 12 colonies were definitely a superior intellect, since they had space travel 200,000 years before we did and came here fleeing the Cylon genocide of the human race. We have developed greatly from those 38,000 colonials and those Cylons who allied themselves with the survivors of Caprica and the 11 other colonies. That is the true source of this DNA quandry.


24 posted on 12/24/2010 7:35:55 AM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: AlmaKing; alexander_busek; JerseyHighlander; LucyT; muawiyah; Oberon; SunkenCiv; wendy1946

see my post #24


25 posted on 12/24/2010 7:38:25 AM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: SampleMan

Thanks SM. There are a couple of topics regarding earlier physical development inferred from the remains/fossils of Neandertal juveniles.


26 posted on 12/24/2010 7:43:26 AM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: wendy1946
Thank you for your civil reply, wendy1946.

The question was whether or not my claim that Neanderthal DNA is typically described as about halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee was reasonable.

Correct.

I documented the claim [..]

Correct. And then I, respectfully, pointed out that that claim was nevertheless grossly wrong. In other words: You are not at fault for quoting that source, but that source terribly distorted the truth.

[...] and noted that anthropologists would not have anything meaningful to say on the subject and I might should have mentioned the fact that anthropology doesn’t have anything to do with DNA studies but I thought that was sort of obvious.

No, it is neither obvious nor correct. Paleoanthropology is the study of our (extinct) near-human ancestors (genus Homo) and our relation to them. The degree of kinship can be inferred on the basis of 1) gross morphological/anatomical features (fossil studies), 2) behavioral/cultural similarities (artifacts like tools, cave wall artwork, burial sites, remains of campsites and shelters, etc.), and 3) genetic similarities (determined as long ago as the 1950s on the basis of serological studies, and, more recently - with the advent of precise tools to recover fossil DNA and identify genetic markers - through the direct comparison of our genomes).

Now, while it's true that a biochemist or geneticist trying to extract (from fossil remains) and reconstruct the DNA of Neanderthals or Denisovans and compare it with the DNA of modern humans will probably self-identify as a "biochemist" or "geneticist," there is still no denying that he is working in the field of Paleoanthropology. Indeed, many Paleoanthropologists may also have degrees in Genetics and vice-versa. There is, of necessity, a lot of overlap between the fields. And a university degree in Physical Anthropology would be unthinkable, nowadays, which didn't include a lot of course work in genetics.

So, of course, an Anthropologist who has devoted his life only to studying, e.g., primitive metallurgical technologies and to retracing prehistoric trade routes based on the use of similar smelting/casting technologies, similar artistic styles, or the use of metal ores containing the same proportion of isotopes is NOT a metallurgist, nor an artist, nor an engineer, but he has undoubtedly acquired a great deal of competency in those related fields and could say more about them as they related to primitive metal trinkets and tools than, say, a modern industrial metallurgist.

In short: Any Paleoanthropologist who makes claims or publishes papers about our genetic relationship to other members of the genus Homo (or to non-human hominids, like the members of the genus Pan - i.e., Chimpanzees) will undoubtedly either have, himself, acquired great competency in the field of genetics or have conferred at length with geneticists.

Finally, I challenge you to find a single claim made in the past 50 years by a reputable Physical Anthropologist (not by a writer for a boulevard paper) that Neanderthals are genetically "about halfway" between modern humans and Chimpanzees.

Regards,

27 posted on 12/25/2010 4:28:38 AM PST by alexander_busek
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