Skip to comments.Need help refuting some communist talking points
Posted on 12/23/2010 11:51:00 AM PST by mainestategop
So Im in the middel of a debate between a group of left wing commies Very hard core I might add. The debate was touched off after a friend of mine from California who was a homeschooling mother of 3 kids came under attack by the commies. It was started off by an evil woman named vampiressontheprowlq who is known for calling freedom a form of fascism and advocating the destruction of America on youtube with her girlfriend and lover.
Here are some excerpts of the filth I have recieved...
Ray Bradbury wrote "Fahrenheit 451", from fresh thoughts in his mind's eye, just after the horrors of WWII, as a commentary on Nazi Germany's Far Right Conservative "Free Market Fascist" Anti-Democratic Authoritarian Nationalist Militaristic privatized society, its sadistic Inequality & Social Darwinist "Survival of the Fittest"--Healthiest/Strongest/Wealthy Successful Producers" rewarded for Business Profiteering from suffering in Nazi Germany's privatized, Deregulated Market Oppression of Labor Unions, Ethnic Minorities, Immigrants, Leftists/Socialists & Intellectuals (who love books), Civil Rights/Liberties, Free Speech & Free Expression.
"Fahrenheit 451" was NOT a commentary on Big Govt Welfare NWO "Big Brother" "Political Correctness" Tyranny or Totalitarian USSR.
Bradbury even confirms what i say, in the foreword of his book & several interviews!
. . . the Soviet Union did not ever burn books. only Nazi regime burned books in Europe in the 20th century (and Conservative Traditional-Culture rural Christian extremists, Southern Racist Rednecks, Slave-owning Plantation Landowners in 1600s-1900s America, Europe 11-14th centuries & Crusades burned books)
but only Nazis in 20th century.
. . . Soviet Union did not ever burn books.
. . . nor did Eastern Bloc Socialist countries during the Cold War.
. . . nor has S. Amer. or European Democratic Leftist "Socialist" country ever burned books.
VampiressOnDaProwlq 1 week ago
This was followed by a rebuttal then an attack by a friend of hers who is known to be an anti american activist and marxist.
As has been repeated to you here already, the Soviets may have censored material but they were not the burners of books. And then you just went off on some meaningless slander. If you're home schooling, you should be arrested for child abuse. As is typical, homeschooling usually just means that the unqualified and ignorant are creating more of the same, it's so sad, your children disserve a REAL education from people who actually know what they are talking about. Stalin, He was certainly no angel and was responsible for the purges of the military and party, but to try an allege that he killed more than Hitler is a bad joke. All you can do is try and use bad numbers and natural events beyond the control of the gov't and then you must still also inflate the numbers. If the same accounting methods are used to examine capitalism that are used to try and indict Stalin than capitalism itself comes out the bigger killer Postwar demographics alone make nonsense of the claim. Eastern Europe was no more enslaved than Latin America in the same period under US-style anti-communism. If anything soviet style socialism was far less bloody than those American nations unfortunate enough to be in the US cold war sphere. As to low wages in China I know of no Asian regime that pays its workers a living wage. Sweeping generalizations are so easy to make, like macaroni and cheese from a box. Just add water. Right, mom? What a joke, there had ALWAYS been great famines in Russia even before it was communist. The market cannot address famines because the people in the famine regions lack the resources to acquire food from any sort of market. The 'Market' doesn't matter in such cases. And socialists do not deny that there was a famine in the Ukraine but like many historians we can look beyond the foolish propaganda of the Rightists trying to blame it all on socialism. would just like to point out that I and a number of other scholars have shown conclusively that the famine of 1931-1933 was by no means limited to Ukraine, was not a "man-made" or artificial famine in the sense that she and other devotees of the Ukrainian famine argument assert, and was not a genocide in any conventional sense of the term Mark B. Tauger, "The 1932 Harvest and the Soviet Famine of 1932-1933," Slavic Review v. 50 no. 1, Spring 1991, 70-89, and my exchanges of letters with Robert Conquest over this article, Slavic Review v. 51 no. 1, 192-194 and v. 53 no. 1, 318-319.
Mark B. Tauger, Natural Disaster and Human Actions in the Soviet Famine of 1931-1933, Carl Beck Papers in Russian and East European Studies, no. 1506, June 2001
Libertarians believe that the only rights that really matters are property rights, that inviolate private property is the only true measure of freedom. And so if you don't have any, too bad, let them find somebody else's property to complain on. They require perfection as the only applicable standard to judge government: libertarianism, being imaginary, cannot be fairly judged to have flaws. It is the philosophy that has and is underlying the elitist dictatorships around the world You know nothing about history. The private sector only sees to its own not the needs of the people in general. It has been barred out that laissez faire only increases the gap between the Rich and the poor. That was the case before the depression of '29. By 1929, the richest 1 percent will own 40 percent of the nation's wealth. The bottom 93 percent will have experienced a 4 percent drop in real disposable per-capita income And so it has become similar thanks to the 'free-market' crap pushed on us since Reagan and Greenspan's libertarian fantasies. And property is NOT freedom. Libertarians foolishly only think that property rights bring freedom, buts it's just too bad if you can't get any property and are therefore enslaved to those that can afford property. It is a philosophy of greed A 'free-market' 'small gov't' state is a corporate fascist state where the corporations can do what they wish because there is no governmental power to restrain them. Filling the power vacuum left by eviscerated gov't they become the gov't. Libertarianism is fascist Social Darwinist rule of money, those with the most money can do whatever they wish while the working people suffer without assistance victimized by a market they cannot control Libertarians are nazis. Communist countries have seen the greatest and fastest growth in their standard of living. Communism brought Russia out of a backward existence and made it a world power in little more than a generation. And in the Soviet Union that did not know poverty we now see it explode and the life expectancy drastically decline.
really then could you inform us how you would allow books you disagree with to be printed and how would you maintain your power if your ideology became the 'rule of law". Capitalism is about Greed and the Nazis loved capitalists.Volkswagen would not have existed without them. Capitalism is an evil disgusting beast that if it cannot be killed at least it should be chained so that it's most evil aspects are stopped.You are one sick perverted individual but typical of your kind
This continued on an on and then they demanded I quote from books by scholars which is what brings me here. I need some good literary works and material to fight back against this socialist dog crap online preferably. Also feel free to join in if you have a youtube account.
Do you really think your time is worth listening or debating this bone headed drivel? Develop a real good closer, and dump this goofball.
Its a mental disorder as well as political philosophy. Cannot be engaged through reason as you have found out.
Block them. Why waste your time debating lunatics? You don’t debate crazy persons screaming on street corners, do you?
Ditto #2. Is your time not worth more than this? It won’t change her. Do you spend this much time talking to friends?
Don’t argue with fool, people will not be able to tell the difference.
These people are insane and should probably be treated as dangerous.
I would do nothing to draw their attention.
They will not get well on their own - they will just get worse.
The Nazis were not a product of the Right, but rather, the Left. They also espoused vegetarianism, many of the things commonly thought of as talking points of the Left these days. Suggest she read Liberal Fascism. Great book. The Soviets murdered literally by the millions, by starvation, execution, many other ways. Suggest that the silly commie woman read The Gulag Archipelago. The Communist Chinese likewise murder with utter disregard. Only societies that value freedom and human life avoid that sort of thing. It sounds like the woman in question needs to be dropped like a hot rock. Not your homeschooling friend, but the so-called vamp with poor grammar.
Why waste your time with these freaks ?
Do something that brings you enjoyment.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed;”
When tyrants rule, such as Mao, Stalin, Castro, Hilter, and Pol Pot, millions of people are murdered, incarcerated, beaten, tortured and robbed of their earthly possessions. Give me liberty, or give me death.
Beware of casting “pearls before swine” - our Republic doesn’t need to be defended against swine, and you don’t need to frustration and tension!
I wouldn’t bother arguing with these people for the following reasons:
1. They are ignorant of 20th century history. Abysmally ignorant.
2. They are not capable of being persuaded by reason as their arguments are based upon “feelings, nothing more than feelings”.
3. These two are deep in the communist scenario and extricating them is not worth while. Write them off.
I have rarely seen more ignorant statements.
Don’t bother arguing. Their minds are made up, don’t try to confuse them with facts.
Ask them to duly remove their asses to any of the commie paradises such as Cuba, Venezuela, NorKorea, Myanmar and enjoy the fruits of their collective labor. If capitalism is s evil, then leave our blessed country for the fortunes of those commie nations.
You might want to mention the fact that you don’t see migration patterns flocking to those authoritarian nations, only to the US. Why, might you ask people risk their lives and their safety to travel here to live? Because capitalism is democratic. All you need is an idea, dedication and some luck and one day you too can become George Soros or Bill Gates.
So please, tell your commie friends to venture forth to those lands that restrict and direct their peoples with authoritarian control. Once they get there they will hear of the hardships of these victimized people and of their aspiration to one day leave to live in a free and capitalistic society.
I should know, I lived in Switzerland in the 80’s and travelled many of the Eastern Block countries and got to know many people in Hungary, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia.
“Never try to teach a pig to sing. It just wastes your time and it really annoys the pig.”
Here’s a closer that often works for me:
I feel compelled to inform you that a patient at the Bethesda Home for the Perpetually Bewildered Progressives has apparently missed a thorizine shot and broken into Nurse Ratchet’s office, hacked into her computer and is sending totally bizarre, nonsensical, historically inaccurate, fiction-laced emails over your name.
I just thought you should know before your reputation is completely ruined.
Even if it doesn’t make them go away, it sure as hell makes me feel better.
I used to waste hours on end debating these fools.
Now I focus on heading them off at the pass, making sure that their policies never see the light of day, and burying them if they do.
You can’t argue with someone who uses lies to make a point. Why bother.
This isn’t a lot of help, but I’d stop arguing with them and give them the silent treatment. Shoot some quotes if you feel you must, but I’d make book they’d be demanding more of you before you even get those quotes out. I’d look to Tom Paine, Adam Smith, Tocqueville maybe Mencken. Bill Buckley.
Life’s too short to deal with these shrews, so dump them. I guarantee you would be neither the first or last to do so. They won’t think that badly of you because they are, judging from the parts you posted here, quite used to it.
You’re just like that prude IRS Agent in that “Boardwalk” series, flagellating himself with a leather whip for thinking dirty thoughts (e.g., arguing with assholes)....
They didn’t burn books in Cambodia either. The Khmer Rouge just killed anyone who could read.
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