Skip to comments.“Nanoscoops” Could Spark New Generation of Electric Automobile Batteries
Posted on 01/04/2011 6:35:36 AM PST by decimon
New Nanoengineered Batteries Developed at Rensselaer Exhibit Remarkable Power Density, Charging More Than 40 Times Faster Than Todays Lithium-ion Batteries
An entirely new type of nanomaterial developed at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute could enable the next generation of high-power rechargeable lithium (Li)-ion batteries for electric automobiles, as well as batteries for laptop computers, mobile phones, and other portable devices.
The new material, dubbed a nanoscoop because its shape resembles a cone with a scoop of ice cream on top, can withstand extremely high rates of charge and discharge that would cause conventional electrodes used in todays Li-ion batteries to rapidly deteriorate and fail. The nanoscoops success lies in its unique material composition, structure, and size.
The Rensselaer research team, led by Professor Nikhil Koratkar, demonstrated how a nanoscoop electrode could be charged and discharged at a rate 40 to 60 times faster than conventional battery anodes, while maintaining a comparable energy density. This stellar performance, which was achieved over 100 continuous charge/discharge cycles, has the team confident that their new technology holds significant potential for the design and realization of high-power, high-capacity Li-ion rechargeable batteries.
Charging my laptop or cell phone in a few minutes, rather than an hour, sounds pretty good to me, said Koratkar, a professor in the Department of Mechanical, Aerospace, and Nuclear Engineering at Rensselaer. By using our nanoscoops as the anode architecture for Li-ion rechargeable batteries, this is a very real prospect. Moreover, this technology could potentially be ramped up to suit the demanding needs of batteries for electric automobiles.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.rpi.edu ...
Quick draw ping.
You can’t get a tow truck for an electric car since they have electrocuted too many drivers.
The sooner we can tell the Middle East to use their oil for camel lube, the better.
Tesla had an idea to transmit energy, its interesting that nobody has tried it even as proof of concept.
We have cell towers, why not Tesla Towers? Within range you get wireless energy, can re-charge or complete poer say an auto, or an aircraft.
Tesla had an idea to transmit energy, its interesting that nobody has tried it even as proof of concept.
We have cell towers, why not Tesla Towers? Within range you get wireless energy, can re-charge or complete power say an auto, or an aircraft.
And the sooner we can release and utilize our own natural resources, the better!
Are those electrocutions documented or hearsay? If the former then that's a problem to be addressed.
when we get this
When the price of regular gas gets too high consider a CNG conversion, you have your own at home natural gas compressor, you convert your vehicle to run on natural gas, similar to propane but quite different.
This appears to be a major drawback:
“CNG’s volumetric energy density is estimated to be 42% of LNG’s (because it is not liquefied), and 25% of diesel’s.”
Probably not very different with gasoline.
“Compressed natural gas has the same fuel economy (.pdf) as gasoline. 1mb/d gasoline contains the same energy as 2tcf (trillion cubic feet) per year, which indicates that in 2008 all gasoline would have required 18tcf.
According to this study (.pdf) liquefied natural gas for trucks has 60% of the fuel economy of diesel. 1mb/d diesel is equivalent to 2.1tcf/yr. Since the majority of diesel is used in trucks, this indicates that in 2008 natural gas for diesel would have required 10.5tcf (3*2.1/0.6).”
I don’t vouch for what this author says, but he has some links to data in his articles. I would like to play with a natural gas conversion sometime.
First off I would not personally use a car, if my Silverado dually with its 8.1 liter engine could be a candidate for conversion I would have the tanks behind the cab in the bed.
I live in Alaska and our regular is already at $3.45 a gallon, diesel much higher. But our natural gas is relatively affordable.
sadly certain politicians axed a major natural gas pipeline that would have greatly benefited many with even more affordable natural gas.
Highway taxation is what will stop the country.
I don't see a contradiction. Charge rate is one thing and charge capacity another.
Energy density = energy per unit weight, effectively how many miles you can drive, or how long your laptop will run, for a given battery weight.
Power density = how fast you can charge it or discharge it. For cars, this will determine peak acceleration.
Yes, natural gas has a lower energy density, much lower than diesel.
It also has a much lower cost.
I wouldn’t mind a fuel tank twice as large. I am more interested in dollars per mile. Comparing mpg is meaningless without considering differences in price.
CNG is a far more realistic fuel for the average driver than LNG.
Would designing a vehicle with a gas tank 4 times larger really be a major setback?
The fuel is much cheaper; dollars per mile is what really counts.
Seems like the only way the electric car will ever be practical is if you can figure out a way to recharge it in a relatively short period of time and have a battery that is not nearly expensive as the ones we have now.
Although exploring alternative technology for automibiles is really interesting, nobody's come up with an alternative that combines the efficiency of energy storage, delivery and safety that gasoline has.
I'd add to that a longer driving range between 'refills.' Non-subsidized charging stations should then make the thing practical in some areas. I can see where this might first be practical in urban areas where there are commercial vehicles and go-getter cars that never leave those areas.
I'm not a battery guy, so maybe I'm off base here.... but I think the deal is that batteries with high charge or discharge rates tend to have poor energy density (charge capacity per unit mass or volume), because in order to achieve the high rates you need a lot of exposed electrode area, which means a very high area/volume ratio -- and big batteries.
High energy density means less exposed electrode area, and thus longer charge or discharge times.
The achievement here seems to be that they've increased the exposed area without having to increase the volume.
A higher charging rate means more current flowing while the charge is in progress.
The Chevy Volt will charge in 6 hours at 12 amps (120 volts) and 3 hours at 16 amps (240 volts).
Imagine what would happen if you have batteries that you can charge 40 times faster.
The charging current would be roughly 40 times greater (for a correspondingly shorter time). Based on the quoted numbers, that would mean charging currents of 480 or 960 amps.
Now, check with your electric supplier to see what it would cost to install 1000 amp service to your house.
They build CNG Hondas here in Indiana (the Civic plant in Greensburg).
I’ve read folks have a lot of trouble with the home compressor units (esp short life) and there are just a few commercial fueling stations in Indianapolis.
However as time goes by, I think these will be a viable option. With the huge nat gas finds, there will be plenty available. I assume the compressor issues get worked out with time.
I haven’t paid much attention to this but I’m aware of existing charging stations that recharge vehicle batteries quickly. Quick charging at home ain’t gonna happen but neither is liquid fueling. If this EV stuff becomes practical then recharging will be done at charging stations serving the same purpose as pumps at gas stations.
I would presume that fast charging would be for charging stations, where you would want to get in and out in under 10 minutes, just like refueling stations today.
There’s not much need for charging quicker than 3-4 hours at home, since you would most likely recharge overnight, or when you got back from somewhere, before you had to go somewhere else. Remember that home recharging is a pure benefit of electric cars, most people can’t refill their gas cars at home.
But the real key is not charge rate, but discharge rate. Faster discharge rates allow higher peak power with less damage.
Interesting, but it has been a long time since I have squeezed into a Honda! They say it gets: “24 city/36 hwy/28 combined gasoline equivalent mpg.” Since I don’t use natural gas (in the Pacific Northwest we have very cheap hydroelectricity), I wonder how you would convert that to miles per dollar? I got the figure from this site:
Centralized charging stations are the answer, of course, and cost effective because the government will pay for them.
A typical gas station will have maybe 6-20 pumps. A charging station with that many plugs would still need some serious amperage coming in off the grid. Of course, the government will pay for upgrading the grid too (free to the taxpayer).
But that's a long way off at the rate electric cars will be selling.
Your comment about filling up at home reminded me of the Greenie hypocrite, John Denver, who had huge gasoline storage tanks installed at his ranch.
1. Nothing the Gov’t pays for (or subsidizes) is ‘cost-effective.
2.... Gov’t will pay for upgrading - free to the taxpayer.... REALLY? Lib-think in process, where dpes the Gov’t get the monies to pay for the upgrade? What makes you think the service to charge your car will be free, even after the Gov’t uses YOUR money to upgrade the facilities?
Obama The Munificent will pay for everything.
CNG has proven more economical than gasoline for years. But most common vehicle CNG tanks result in a lower range as the vehicles were not originally designed for CNG.
More info at: http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/fuels/natural_gas.html
The Chevy Volt will charge in 6 hours at 12 amps (120 volts)
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I don’t believe that is correct. The battery is a 16-kWh Lithium-ion.
What do you consider quickly? Is there something that would deliver a 50 mile range in under 10 minutes?
“Is there something that would deliver a 50 mile range in under 10 minutes?”
In my Yukon Denali XL, I get a safe and comfortable 475 mile range in about 3.5 minutes.
But that’s using good old, unhip gasoline of course.....
Best description I've seen on this thread of power density.
I believe there are charging stations that are or could be so capable. I don't know if there are any current vehicles so capable. I also don't know if there are any areas of the US with the generating capacity to handle many such vehicles.
Ironically, it may be the people pushing electric vehicles to make a boondoggle of a promising technology. We need more generating capacity to provide for the charging stations.
elecric cars are DOA until they 1. can go 400 miles at 80 mph in NORMAL use AND 2. not kill anyone when crashed or towed.
Numbers are all over the place on this. I don’t know which to believe.
Chevy says 10 hours on a 120 volt source, and 4 hours on a 240 volt source (from the Volt website).
Apparently they don’t use the full 16 kWh capacity, the limit it (in software) to 10.4 kWh to extend the battery life (Wikipedia). They do not fully charge or discharge the batteries.
You've described a lesser use. The greatest use is in urban areas, at low speeds, for short distances.
AND 2. not kill anyone when crashed or towed.
The high current circuits could be tied in with the air bags to open when the air bags deploy.
You got me laughing at work.
When I lived in the city, I used my car for very short trips and very low speeds. About 90% of my car time was spent performing tasks that an electric car could do well.
But about 10% of the time, I wanted to leave the city and travel a significant distance at a significant speed. I would absolutely need a car that could perform both roles.
I can electric taxis. I do not see electric family cars.
Well, the EPA has already shut down most technology projects on the basis of GreeNazi lies, and as this clip from your Wiki link above shows, they may have to permit it, but they'll make it painful"
I think the one-vehicle household might now be the minority. The most used household vehicle is likely the go-getter with another vehicle for other purposes.
I can electric taxis. I do not see electric family cars.
Maybe USPS/UPS/FEDEX and the like. There are an amazing number of such vehicles in NYC and probably most urban areas.
Numbers are all over the place on this. I dont know which to believe.
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Why don’t we use the numbers in the Operators Manual?
9-56 Driving and Operating
Electrical Requirements for Battery Charging
The AC outlet must have a grounded, dedicated, 15 amp or greater, three-prong wall plug. That means there should be no other major appliances connected to the same circuit. If it is not a dedicated circuit, the current rating of the outlet circuit breaker could be exceeded and cause it to trip or open. The vehicle can be charged in the reduced level mode.
See Charge Level Button in this section. Reduced level mode allows a non-dedicated circuit to be used but increases the charging time.
This vehicle is capable of being charged with a variety of standard vehicle charging equipment.
The following are the minimum requirements for circuits used to charge this vehicle:
Charging equipment with a rating of at least 240V/20Amp will provide the fastest charging time to recharge the high voltage battery. 240V/40Amp circuits provide flexibility for future vehicle charging needs. Contact your dealer for more information.
Do not use non-grounded electrical plug adapters.
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In section: 5-34 Instruments and Controls It goes through the ability to program the charging time. The system has the ability to take a slower charge or delay the charge based upon utility rates and time of day metering.
10 hours on a 120 volt, 15 Amp source; or and 4 hours on a 240 volt, 20 Amp source appear to be the fastest available. Looks like they hope to offer and upgrade that might complete in 2 hours at some time in the future.
I could provide a charging system that could deliver that much energy that quickly. I do not know of any vehicle sized battery system that would not explode or otherwise fail if such a powerful charge was shoved into it.
using the fueleconomy.gov calculator
the nat gas Honda has an annual fuel cost of $1034 (15000 miles)
the regular Honda is $1589
the nat gas Honda is about $7000 MORE than the conventional, and you get a $4000 fed tax credit.
some states have additional tax credits and allow use in HOV lanes, neither applies to me
so basically the economics don’t work very well currently, the one plus would be availability of fuel if we ever get into the petroleum shortage / rationing game again
From 10 technologies to watch in 2011 - EET, by Nicolas Mokhoff, 2010 December 15
Many exotic technologies loom as long-term prospects for efficient energy storage, but to date none poses a commercially feasible alternative to lithium-ion batteries, and recent refinements to lithium-ion technology will keep it in the lead for the short haul. A123 Systems, a developer and manufacturer of advanced Li-ion batteries based on nanoscale materials that were conceived at MIT, was recently selected to develop battery packs for a 2012-model-year electric passenger car from Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp., the largest automaker in China. A123 has also signed a deal to sell 44 megawatts' worth of its batteries to AES Energy Storage, in a step toward putting solar and wind farms on the grid. While lithium-ion today is the poster child for energy storage, the technology has inherent limits in energy density and readily available raw materials. Those restrictions, in turn, could limit the production of electric vehicles if a commercially feasible alternative to lithium-ion batteries is not found soon. ..... < snip >
Energy storage media sought
Many exotic technologies loom as long-term prospects for efficient energy storage, but to date none poses a commercially feasible alternative to lithium-ion batteries, and recent refinements to lithium-ion technology will keep it in the lead for the short haul.
A123 Systems, a developer and manufacturer of advanced Li-ion batteries based on nanoscale materials that were conceived at MIT, was recently selected to develop battery packs for a 2012-model-year electric passenger car from Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp., the largest automaker in China. A123 has also signed a deal to sell 44 megawatts' worth of its batteries to AES Energy Storage, in a step toward putting solar and wind farms on the grid.
While lithium-ion today is the poster child for energy storage, the technology has inherent limits in energy density and readily available raw materials. Those restrictions, in turn, could limit the production of electric vehicles if a commercially feasible alternative to lithium-ion batteries is not found soon. ..... < snip >
Despite apparent progress on increasing density with nano-materials, article sounds quite gloomy.
Of course, the biggest obstacle for any significant size of consumer electric auto market to develop would be the electric energy generation, and the undue emphasis of governments on inefficient and expensive "green" wind and solar technologies (instead of accelerating deployment of nuclear reactors) just is not going to get it done.
Development of inexpensive portable / removable batteries would take care of the [high-speed] charging problem, if the batteries could be quickly replaced or "rented" in any "charging" station or auto store or department store... but that seems to be a fantasy for now.
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