Posted on 01/06/2011 9:51:05 PM PST by Palter
Who discovered America? It's a simple question and one that usually brings the standard response - Christopher Columbus. But here in Wales we have our own theory. And that theory says that America was actually discovered 300 years before Columbus sailed "the ocean blue" in 1492 - and more importantly, that it was discovered by a Welshman.
Mandan Indians used Bull Boats for transport and fishing that are identical to the Welsh coracle.
The man in question was Prince Madoc, the son of Owain Gwynedd, one of the greatest and most important rulers in the country, and while the legend cannot be corroborated there are many who believe it implicitly. Owain Gwynedd certainly existed, his reign being marred by long and hard-fought disputes with Henry II, king of England.
The story goes that in 1170 Owain died and, almost immediately, a violent and very bloody dispute arose between his 13 children regarding the succession. Madoc and his brother Rhirid were so upset and angered by events that they decided they wanted no further part in what was happening. Indeed, they wanted nothing more to do with their family or their homeland. They duly took ship from Rhos on Sea (Llandrillo) and sailed westwards to see what they could find.
What Prince Madoc found, so the legend runs, was America. He and his brother managed to cross the Atlantic and land on the shores of the New World. Madoc returned to Gwynedd for more men, then sailed off again, this time never to return. His sailors inter-married with a local Native American tribe and for years the rumour of Welsh speaking Native American tribes was widely believed.
(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...
when i was growing up in the UK many moons a go we had a joke,
Q: What is an Irishman?
A: A Welshman that can swim.
also
Q: Why is the grass so green in Ireland?
A: Because they are all over here walking on ours.
Ok let the irish flaming begin.
I think the melungeons claim to be Portuguese.
There was always a problem because when friendly Indians asked the Welshmen where they from they replied Cywnegorswtmgicelistaw. The Indians thought they were being rude and killed them
Click here to sign the petition.
BTW, SunkenCiv and I signed years ago.
The primary researcher discovered almost immediately that the Spanish ran a POW camp in South Carolina. They took prisoners there who they'd captured in battles in the Balkans or the Eastern Mediterranean.
In those times it was typical for the Spanish to simply dispose of any Moslems they captured as being ineducable. On the other hand, although the Roman and Greek churches were at odds in the 1500s, any Orthodox soldiers or sailors taken prisoner probably made up the greater part of those folks who went to the POW camp.
However, there's evidence that the Spanish didn't just kill all the Moslems because virtually every Melungeon checked so far has a "marker DNA sequence" unique to themselves and a group of descendants of black slaves brought to Karachi in what is now Pakistan way back in the 1200s or 1300s. Somehow that group's genetic marker got to the Americas. It's hypothesized that a group of these folks in Karachi were taken to the Middle East by the Turks and they ended up in the Turkish Navy or maybe an Army unit somewhere in the Balkans where they could encounter the Spanish or other Christians in any one of a number of wars that went on in that period.
The focus is on the Melungeons having their origins in America as an identifiable special population sometime in the 1500s. The Melungeons also have considerable European ancestry, and American Indian forebears. Both may well derive from intermarriage with Eastern Cherokee, or Iroquois, or maybe even Ojibway-Chippewa themselves (with a whole huge Sa'ami component).
Always remember, the Cherokee were a mixed people themselves, and there were those who were very light and those who are very dark. They were just like today's Americans ~ some light, some dark, some inbetween and frequently with no idea how they got that way.
Prince Madoc derives from centuries before the time of the Melungeon formation.
BTW, because people met European looking "Indians" from the earliest times there was always this ambition to explain it with "recent" European contact ~ not Ice Age contact. Now that we know there was Ice Age contact, the questions have changed.
Awwwwwwww ~ he’s cute!!!!!!!!!!
I find it really fascinating that some of their descendants had stated that the family story passed on down had always mentioned that they were of Turkish descent.
I had NO idea that they'd concluded that the Melungeons trace back to 1500s America, that is really early.
I didn't know about the Spanish prison in South Carolina, that's fascinating.
I've read that there were several european countries which sent boatloads of gypsies to the shores of North and South America in the 1600s --- trying to rid their own countries of nations of gypsies and literally dumping them on the shores. Evidentally many of their descendants are in Brazil.
1500s - THAT is so early, SO early, there must be many millions of contemporary Americans who have no idea that they descend from one of these original immigrant prisoners. What an exotic background!!
You mean like this red panda?
Anybody, but especially scientists, who assume that the Prehistorical era(s) were static and lacked adventurers / explorers is a fool. The concept of seeking greener fields just over that hill probably originated with Ogg&Ugg.
There is a Smithsonian Scientist who postulates that the Clovis Arrowhead may have been a copy of similar arrowheads being used in Ice Age France and brought to the New World by nomadic hunters of seals and the like moving along the ice sheets.
To assume that there have not been individual and small group influences is a fallacy BUT it is Columbus who made the New World a lasting reality as his discovery was the PERMANENT ONE!
I always wondered why Englebert look different. He and Tom made a boatload of money singing a lot of cheezy songs.
What's New Pussycat? I mean come on. Personally I would rather listen to Scotsman Rod Stewart. His song Reason to Believe is an outstanding old number. Far better than that Bye Bye Bye Delila rubbish by Tom.
They discovered Ireland. LOL! There is no way anyone is going to sail in these little rowboats from Wales to North America. Out of curiousity - I wonder how many ships from Spain and other countries during Columbus and other explorers never made it.
Crossing the Atlantic in the early 20th century was no picnic - see the Titanic.
I thought the Indians greeted the Welshmen with “What’s New Pussycat? Whoa Whoa Whoa...What’s New Pussycat?”
I did not know that about Cliff Richards.
It is interesting that mixed race/ethnicities are disproportionately represented in Entertainment.
I think of Sade, and many others...also very common in South Africa.
Let me understand what you are saying about the Chippewa: are they truly partly descendents of Sa’ami, or is it that Sa’ami intermarried with Chippewa when they immigrated to North America?
The Chippewa, etc. who carry the identifying Sa'ami X-factor DNA sequence came to America and married into the Sa'ami.
Rod Stewart... be still my heart, lol.
His raspy voice has delevered some great ballads and rock music.
He’s a tall Scot, unlike the wee Sheena, whose “Almost Over You” is one of the most haunting songs ever recorded.
So....did the Sa’ami come via the Atlantic Icepack, or via Berengia ?
And was this when their homeland (?) was east of the Urals before they emigrated to the Northern Scandinavia and Russian taiga?
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