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Virginia Tech & Tucson
me ^ | 1/10/11 | me

Posted on 01/10/2011 8:29:07 AM PST by umgud

Most mass murderers have one thing in common. It seems that at every mass murder event, the shooter has to reload, generally multiple times. In April, 2007 at Virginia Tech, the shooter (Cho) shot 58 people, 33 died, including himself, via suicide. His victims were at multiple locations and while some were heroic, trying to block doors and such, nobody stepped up and rushed him, not even during his multiple reloads. I was really puzzled at the time that so many apparently just waited their turn to be shot. Sadly, this seems to be common at mass murder events. Maybe they gambled that they would be lucky and not be targeted or that the police would arrive soon to save them.

Fast-forward to Tucson. Here, the shooter shot 19 people and while trying to reload, a 61 year old woman stepped up and wrestled his magazine away while two men from the crowd tackled him. These three people didn’t curl up in a fetal position to await being shot, they rushed the bum. Too bad someone at Virginia Tech didn’t do the same.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: banglist; giffords; loughner; massmurder; vatech
I realize it is easy to Monday-morning quarterback, but I'm still amazed when many die without even attempting to defend themselves.

What is so different between VT and Tucson?

1 posted on 01/10/2011 8:29:11 AM PST by umgud
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To: umgud

Age?


2 posted on 01/10/2011 8:42:40 AM PST by stuartcr (When politicians politicize issues, aren't they just doing their job?)
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To: stuartcr

That is what popped into my mind. One of those who fought back was a 71 year old retired Major.

One big story out of Virginia, was the holocaust survivor who gave his life to bar the door so his students could escape.

Age does appear to be a factor.

The NappyOne


3 posted on 01/10/2011 9:08:02 AM PST by NappyOne
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To: stuartcr
They do seem to be of the same age; also, I wonder if ALL mass murderers lack a romantic partner???

Seriously, is this a distinguishing characteristic of mass murderers?

4 posted on 01/10/2011 9:09:24 AM PST by hennie pennie
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To: umgud

I thought I’ve read several times that a young woman in her early 20s took away a magazine from him???


5 posted on 01/10/2011 9:14:05 AM PST by hennie pennie
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To: hennie pennie

61 year old Mrs Maisch.


6 posted on 01/10/2011 9:26:24 AM PST by umgud
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To: umgud
"I realize it is easy to Monday-morning quarterback, but I'm still amazed when many die without even attempting to defend themselves."

Most semiauto pistols have a magazine holding generally between 7 and 18 rounds which can be emptied much more rapidly than most people realize. Loughner had an extended mag holding about twice that amount, so he had roughly the equivalent of two full mags without needing to reload. From what I've been able to surmise it sounds as though he walked up to the congress lady from behind, took a well aimed shot, then started shooting randomly into the crowd, and continued to pull the trigger while others tried to wrestle the weapon away from him.

He had probably come close to emptying the mag in the time it just took you to read this sentence.

I would imagine that most people who did not directly witness the event didn't even comprehend what was going on before he had been generally subdued by those in the immediate area.

7 posted on 01/10/2011 9:35:19 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Joe 6-pack

If he were a pro, or at least someone with practice, he could have swapped mags rapidly. He wasn’t and he didn’t, thus the opportunity to jump him. The VT shooter took much longer to do his killing, but you are right in this case, much of it was over before most people comprehended what happened.


8 posted on 01/10/2011 9:39:42 AM PST by umgud
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To: umgud
Also keep in mind that at VT, there had been somewhat of a campus alert. Also, there were descriptions by survivors of hearing the shots from outside their class rooms before the shooter showed up at the door.

A lot of people at VT had a heads up and the opportunity to start mentally preparing themselves. Nobody in Tucson had such an opportunity chance...

...unless they are one of those rare persons who has given thought to their personal protection and perhaps even sought and received some training for it.

9 posted on 01/10/2011 9:46:35 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Joe 6-pack

The VT shooter used a G19 and a Walther P22. He had 19 magazines in his backpack.

I didn’t see which model Glock Loughner used. Are you thinking he had a G33 mag?


10 posted on 01/10/2011 10:16:30 AM PST by umgud
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To: Joe 6-pack

oooops, 33 rnd mag, not G33 mag


11 posted on 01/10/2011 10:19:29 AM PST by umgud
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To: umgud

Yep...What I’ve read indicates he (Loughner) used a Glock 19 w/ a 33 rd mag.


12 posted on 01/10/2011 10:20:52 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: umgud

The whole event took fifteen seconds. By the time a lot of people in the store figured out what was going on the even was already over.


13 posted on 01/10/2011 11:29:36 AM PST by DemonDeac
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To: umgud

Both these ‘kids’ were not adults yet mentally, but thrust upon the world as so. They’re parents failed them imho.
The warining signs were there in both cases, but since they’re adults, its hard to intervene without possible legal repercussions.


14 posted on 01/10/2011 2:02:48 PM PST by ▀udda▀udd (7 days - 7 ways Guero >>> with a floating, shifting, ever changing persona.....)
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To: umgud; Joe 6-pack
yesSirs...I ran it thru my mind a bit too...i decided that on a good day, if i were point blank [IOW, not blocked out by the crowd] i mightve been able to do *something* before he emptied out a mag...

just the time to realize the situation and react would likely be too late to save the first mags worth of victims, especially when hes simply squeezin em off w/o much target choice...

Id be damned if Id just stand there and get shot tho...

15 posted on 01/10/2011 9:03:26 PM PST by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: umgud

>>What is so different between VT and Tucson? <<

I’d lay odds that the lady has previously thought about what she would do if a rapist attacked her or if someone tried to snatch her purse.

I listened to an interview of the lady and one of the men who tackled the nutcase. He was on the ground, held by two men and trying to get the magazine. She was on the ground, the lady beside her had been shot. She crawled forward and grabbed the magazine before he could. I don’t know if one of the men told her to do it.

The young man who ran towards the gunfire impressed me the most. Sure he was armed but he did what normally only veteran combat soldiers will do.


16 posted on 01/10/2011 9:30:25 PM PST by B4Ranch (Do NOT remain seated until this ride comes to a full and complete stop! We're going the wrong way!)
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To: Joe 6-pack

Thank God he used a 9mm weapon instead of a .45. There would have been a lot more dead with a .45.


17 posted on 01/10/2011 9:36:12 PM PST by B4Ranch (Do NOT remain seated until this ride comes to a full and complete stop! We're going the wrong way!)
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To: B4Ranch
"Thank God he used a 9mm weapon instead of a .45. There would have been a lot more dead with a .45. "

I think that's hard to say one way or the other, and would depend largely on the type of bullets he was using. All other things being equal, a 9mm will generally get more penetration than a .45 due to it's smaller projectile and higher velocity. When shooting into a crowd, he may have actually wounded more people due to over-penetration from the 9mm. Again, at the short range of these shootings it really depends on the structure and composition of the bullet. Personally if somebody gave me the option of being shot with a 9mm or a .45, my choice would be neither.

18 posted on 01/10/2011 9:57:43 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Joe 6-pack

I understand that he used hardball ammo.

True, bullet wounds take a long time to heal.


19 posted on 01/10/2011 10:03:10 PM PST by B4Ranch (Do NOT remain seated until this ride comes to a full and complete stop! We're going the wrong way!)
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