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How to respond to an Active Shooter with your CCW pistol.
1/10/2011 | Vanity

Posted on 01/10/2011 8:03:13 PM PST by Ramius

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To: Georgia Girl 2

Rod Ignatius makes a makes a lot of sense.
Except his pricing structure ;)


41 posted on 01/10/2011 9:26:38 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: 21twelve

Yeah, when you see him cap a 73 year old lady or a 9 year old girl, that is a clue.


42 posted on 01/10/2011 9:28:50 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: BigBlueJon

There was this situation at the Tacoma, Washington mall back in 2005. Brandon McKown stopped the gunman from shooting any more people, although the gunman did retreat into a store and took hostages that were unharmed. From wiki:

“During the course of the shooting, Brandon (Dan) McKown, a legally armed citizen, intervened. McKown drew his 9mm CZ pistol and verbally commanded Maldonado to put down his gun. Maldonado’s response was to fire on McKown, striking him once in the leg and four times in the torso, damaging McKown’s spine and leaving him paralyzed.

In addition to McKown, five other people were shot but not seriously injured, and a seventh person received a non-gunshot injury. At least one other person in the mall at the time also pulled a gun on Maldonado but did not fire for fear of hitting innocent bystanders.[1]

Maldonado then [after being confronted by McKown] took four people hostage in a Sam Goody store, including two employees, a customer, and a 12-year-old boy who he only briefly held captive before releasing. The attack began shortly after noon, and the hostage situation lasted until four p.m. when Maldonado surrendered to a Tacoma police SWAT team without further incident.[2]


43 posted on 01/10/2011 9:31:30 PM PST by 21twelve ( You can go from boom to bust, from dreams to a bowl of dust ... another lost generation.)
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To: Ramius
Sometimes it's not hard to figure out ...


44 posted on 01/10/2011 9:36:31 PM PST by Errant
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To: 21twelve

You know, I’ve thought about that. I don’t know the answer. I do know that I do not want to be the next gun-wielding shooter on the ground after another CCW responder mistakes me for the initial shooter after I had just gun-downed the original shooter all ninja like.


45 posted on 01/10/2011 9:38:19 PM PST by BigBlueJon ("And shepherds we shall be....For Thee, my Lord, for Thee....")
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To: Georgia Girl 2

Agreed.

My plan is to secure a nice corner or other defensible position and wait. I won’t present but will have my hand on the throttle, ready to draw and fire. If someone with a gun charges I hope to shoot COM and score but my main concern is to get mine behind me and take a defensive stance to protect the ones I care about. I ain’t shooting first unless confronted with a serious threat, one that is clearly a baddie, and then hope I can get Massad Ayoob as my legal expert.

I have lived a good long life, I hope I have the balls to protect and the wits to be aware of my surroundings if I am ever put in a situation like this.

Of course, all that conjecture goes out the window when somebody is shooting at you. Training and muscle memory are your best friends. Those, and all the samurai movies I have watched ;)


46 posted on 01/10/2011 9:39:15 PM PST by West Texas Chuck (Eat the young, 100 million guppies can't be wrong.)
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To: 21twelve

Who knows what we would do under the circumstances.
McKown placed himself needlessly in danger.

It is sad that things worked out badly for him.


47 posted on 01/10/2011 9:39:15 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: West Texas Chuck
I retain Texas law shield. I cant vouch for them and I hope they never have to vouch for me.
48 posted on 01/10/2011 9:42:06 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Ramius
Here in Oklahoma our law specifically states: "Never point, or shoot your gun at a person unless 1) Your life is in danger at that moment, 2) The life of your mother or father, husband or wife, child or employee is threatened at that moment, 3) Your home is invaded and you believe the person will harm you or another person in your home, 4) Only the use of your gun could stop the harm or injury.

If I'm in a public place and I hear gunfire, I'm moving my loved ones and myself to the safest place possible. Sorry, our laws don't permit me shooting a perp to save a stranger's life.

49 posted on 01/10/2011 9:49:51 PM PST by LouAvul
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To: LouAvul

And this Patchwork of gun laws and reciprocity can be very confusing.
More confusing than the scenario in the OP.


50 posted on 01/10/2011 9:52:53 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Travis McGee

I concur with your suggestions.


51 posted on 01/10/2011 9:58:42 PM PST by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier preparing to deploy to Afghanistan)
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To: pingman
suggest keeping your weapon in its holster until you know what’s going on.

Very good advice! Remember, your rounds are just as lethal as a lunatic's! Regardless of what is going on, YOU NEED TO KNOW YOU HAVE A CLEAR SHOT!

Otherwise, you are, essentially, an accomplice!

52 posted on 01/10/2011 10:05:12 PM PST by ExSES (the "bottom-line")
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To: Ramius
I'm not going to address your initial questions. Rather, I want folks to think about something that's been niggling at me.

Remember the shooters in India? Remember the school assaulted by mooselimbs? At those scenes more than one was running around pinging folks. The perps carried auto-weapons with extra mags. They continued murdering people for a long time before the forces to stop them finally got control of the situation.

America probably has several thousand armed mooselimb fanatics just waiting for word to start slaughtering people at shopping malls and easy venues for slaughtering unarmed people, to bring the economy to a grinding halt. In such a shooting situation, only shooting at a perp close by so you can take them out and get their weapons in to the hands of other potential victims who should be told to take defensive positions is the scenario I keep running through my writer's mind.

If folks are unarmed, they're out gunned. If some folks have CCW revolvers where perps are using AKs, well, the situation changes to one of battle zone where you're out gunned and in need of 'equalizers'. America is about to find out what these murderous mooselimbs want for all of us. I think the shooting in AZ and even the Texas Army base were not the sort of shooting we're about to experience.

My only precaution to fellow CCW holders is carry extra mags and on't expect you're carrying to stop a mugging, because battle zones I fear are in our future in the heartland. And teach your family members what weapons look like, how they operate, and how to reload the various types. Oh, and if you find you're in a battle zone, let those who have been in such situations before direct the action if they enlist your assistance. We have a lareg number of vets in the heartland.

53 posted on 01/10/2011 10:09:17 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: 21twelve

If I were to intervene, I would not yell any commands - it’s best if he didn’t know what hit him, or from where.


54 posted on 01/10/2011 10:16:12 PM PST by scott7278 ( "...I have not changed Congress and how it operates the way I would have liked." BHO)
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To: Errant

Agree... it’s not so hard for us to detect in the initial seconds who the good guys and bad guys are.

But when the cops show up, how are they supposed to know which guy with a gun is the wrong guy? It’s a fair question, I think.


55 posted on 01/10/2011 10:34:12 PM PST by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: Ramius
If forced to engage, start communicating immediately and loudly with others in the area even before the cops show up. Explain who you are and location/status of perp. Holster your weapon as soon as practical and provide aid.

You're going to have to deal with a fluid situation as it develops. If confronted by officers, use extreme caution prior to making any movement. Communicate and exaggerate compliance.

At least that's what they told me in CCW class held at the local Holiday Inn Express ... ;)

56 posted on 01/10/2011 10:57:48 PM PST by Errant
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To: Ramius
Motorcylcist shot in the back by police officer - Youtube video
57 posted on 01/10/2011 11:23:30 PM PST by Errant
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To: 21twelve
I'm a fed. If you aren't law enforcement let your bullets do the talking. Don't give up the advantage of surprise. Priority to cover over shooting, don't expect to hit much if firing while moving. Accuracy will be better shooting from cover.

As far as telling the good guys from the bad guy. The good guys won't be shooting at everybody, and they will be dressed like you. Don't laugh, but most CCW carriers look like they fell out of the "I've got a gun" catalog. The bad guys will probably have a bag with to carry a massive amount of ammo, shooting all over the place and might be dressed like they are an extra on "24." Columbine shooters wore trench coats, the VT shooter had a bag of ammo. I think this guy walked up with a hoodie on in nice weather.

Carry whenever you can. If you find it hard to dress around your gun, get a smaller gun. A hand cannon you leave at home isn't as useful as a pea shooter you always have on you.

58 posted on 01/10/2011 11:24:01 PM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: Junior_G
You just made me feel a whole lot better about the last time I watched some guys do that.

Me too. Mine was in front of the Clinton White House.

59 posted on 01/10/2011 11:34:47 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (My baloney has a first name, it's DEMOCRAT; my baloney has a second name, it's PARTY)
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To: Ramius

pfl


60 posted on 01/10/2011 11:53:17 PM PST by JDoutrider
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