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Humans 'left Africa much earlier'
BBC ^ | January 27, 2011 | Paul Rincon

Posted on 01/27/2011 4:03:33 PM PST by decimon

Modern humans may have emerged from Africa up to 50,000 years earlier than previously thought, a study suggests.

Researchers have uncovered stone tools in the Arabian peninsula that they say were made by modern humans about 125,000 years ago.

The tools were unearthed at the site of Jebel Faya in the United Arab Emirates, a team reports in the journal Science.

The results are controversial: genetic data strongly points to an exodus from Africa 60,000-70,000 years ago.

Simon Armitage, from Royal Holloway, University of London, Hans-Peter Uerpmann, from the University of Tuebingen, Germany, and colleagues, uncovered 125,000-year-old stone tools at Jebel Faya which resemble those found in East Africa at roughly the same time period.

The authors of the study say the people who made the tools were newcomers in the area with origins on the other side of the Red Sea.

The researchers were able to date the tools using a light-based technique, which tells scientists when the stone artefacts were buried.

>

Multiple migrations?

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(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: africa; arabia; godsgravesglyphs; multiregionalism; replacement
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1 posted on 01/27/2011 4:03:35 PM PST by decimon
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To: SunkenCiv

Faya scrutiny ping.


2 posted on 01/27/2011 4:04:31 PM PST by decimon
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To: decimon
Nabokov's multi-migration theories of butterflies from Asia to American have recently found supporting evidence ...

Nabokov Theory on Butterfly Evolution

3 posted on 01/27/2011 4:12:20 PM PST by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: decimon


4 posted on 01/27/2011 4:12:46 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: decimon

I’m of the opinion that civilizations have risen and fallen on the earth for millions of years.


5 posted on 01/27/2011 4:15:41 PM PST by dljordan ("His father's sword he hath girded on, And his wild harp slung behind him")
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To: decimon
Humans 'left Africa much earlier'


6 posted on 01/27/2011 4:18:01 PM PST by NoLibZone (Five time DNC backed candidate Fred Phelps: "God sent the shooter".)
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To: dljordan
Humans have only been around in our modern form for about 100,000 years.

While that isn't millions, it is interesting to contemplate that the vast majority of the history of humans is “prehistoric” - and that civilization is a rather late comer to the human cultural table.

7 posted on 01/27/2011 4:19:01 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: decimon

Who’s to say they were human? What’s the test for determining? Is the soul identifiable from fossils? Some how I don’t think so...


8 posted on 01/27/2011 4:21:59 PM PST by babygene (Figures don't lie, but liars can figure...)
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To: decimon

My question is when did they become white and move to Europe?


9 posted on 01/27/2011 4:23:08 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White)
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To: ReverendJames
Due to natural selection of genetic variation, and the need to balance the mutagenic effects of sunlight with the need to use sunlight to synthesize vitamin D; they moved to Europe FIRST and then turned white. Any population, absent vitamin D supplementation, would.

How do you suppose that Black people got black and White people got white if not for natural selection of genetic variation?

10 posted on 01/27/2011 4:26:57 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: decimon

“The tools were unearthed at the site of Jebel Faya in the United Arab Emirates, a team reports in the journal Science.”

Chimpanzees

Chimpanzees are humanity’s closest living relatives, and apparently learned how to make and use tools long ago without human help, with stone hammers found at a chimp settlement in the Ivory Coast dating back 4,300 years. They are even capable of making spears to hunt other primates for meat, and are known to have developed specialized tool kits for foraging army ants.

So I guess tools are not the measure...


11 posted on 01/27/2011 4:27:14 PM PST by babygene (Figures don't lie, but liars can figure...)
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To: ReverendJames
If you've checked around humans probably became "white" about 400,000 years ago when they moved to Europe ~ they became red heads as well.

They are known to science as Neanderthals.

Later on other humans moved other places.

Another group of humans known as the San People moved SOUTH in Africa and turned into the ancestors of all known groups of humans.

This group still exists and exhibits traits of all the other groups of humans descended from the San ancestors.

Bantus and Europeans used to hunt the San in South Africa like they were game animals. (SEE: Nils Van der Post ~ "The Sands of the Khalahari")

12 posted on 01/27/2011 4:28:00 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: allmendream

In a hundred thousand years or so? Evolution to me would be that where there’s almost a lack of sun the body would be black to absorb heat. Blacks are more susceptible to sunburn than whites. So basically what you’re saying is if Africans moved to a less sunlit area, say, Norway, eventually they’ll turn white, have blond hair and narrow noses? In a hundred thousand years or so.


13 posted on 01/27/2011 4:30:23 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White)
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To: decimon

Like with any science, any real science, there isn’t unanimity on any of this. There is a multiregional model of human development, of long-standing, that was just strengthened recently by work done sequencing the Neanderthal genome (up to about 5% of the native European genome, ie. Whites), and similarly looking at Denisovan genes (up to about 5% of the Papua New Guinean genome, and probably other Melanesians, Asians). Even, of all places, The New York Times, in an odd little paragraph in their daily editorial a few days ago, accepted these as fact - surprising because they’re involved in racial differences, something NYT seems to pretend are all imaginary (except when it serves a leftist purpose). The fossil record is fragmentary, at best. Some of this dating relies heavily on mathematical estimations of genetic change over time, without much real knowledge of variations in rate of change by other factors like climate, diet. The fragmentary fossil record isn’t helped by much of human development having taken place near bodies of water, often at times when the sea level has been lower than today. Many sites are now far underwater.


14 posted on 01/27/2011 4:31:29 PM PST by OldNewYork
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To: muawiyah

I’ve read where Neanderthals were a small select group that suffered vitamin deficiencies. That’s why they developed like that. Have there been cases of Neanderthals in, say, China? Or other parts of the world? And how did humans evolve in other places? Separately from Africa?


15 posted on 01/27/2011 4:32:59 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White)
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To: dljordan

Oppenheimer when asked if his was the first ever detonation of of a nuclear bomb, he said. ‘Yes, in modern times’.


16 posted on 01/27/2011 4:33:26 PM PST by Eyes Unclouded ("The word bipartisan means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out." -George Carlin)
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To: ReverendJames

Black skin, skin with higher melanin content, is more protected from the Sun than white skin. This is why melanin is also an inducible gene, laying in the sun increases the amount of melanin in your skin temporarily, to protect you from further exposure.

Yes, what I am saying is that a dark skinned population that moved to Norway (back in the day) would be under extreme selective pressure (caused by rickets) to accumulate less functional or less induced alleles of all the genes that put melanin into the skin.

How do you suppose a single human population derived such obvious differences, if not for natural selection of genetic variation?


17 posted on 01/27/2011 4:40:05 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream

I guess it begs the question of how humanity developed into three distinct races: Caucasoid, Negroid and Mongoloid. Don’t you think there should be some residual traces in each race? Why are they so different/distinct from each other? You said that black skin is more protected from the sun but then why are black skinned people more susceptible to sunburn? Then too, there are several levels of black skinned people in Africa. Shouldn’t they all be the same?


18 posted on 01/27/2011 4:51:35 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White)
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To: babygene
Unless the tools happen to be mortars and pestles.

Michael Cremo's "Forbidden Archeology" should be required reading.

19 posted on 01/27/2011 4:51:55 PM PST by InternetTuffGuy
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To: InternetTuffGuy

“Forbidden Archeology”

Give me a hint as to what it’s about... I’m always interested in the forbidden...


20 posted on 01/27/2011 4:57:35 PM PST by babygene (Figures don't lie, but liars can figure...)
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To: decimon; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

· GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach ·
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Thanks decimon.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
 

· History topic · history keyword · archaeology keyword · paleontology keyword ·
· Science topic · science keyword · Books/Literature topic · pages keyword ·


21 posted on 01/27/2011 4:59:41 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: ReverendJames
There are not three distinct races. Residual traces of what? The genes that put melanin in the skin? There most certainly are “residual traces” in that the genes work perfectly in the blackest of black people, and they work less so in the whitest of white people, and not at all in an albino.

Why are the races so distinct from each other? Genetically they are not, we are a very homologous species as far as DNA similarity goes, but there are obvious differences that are mostly “skin deep” as it were.

Why do you think a black person in Africa who goes half naked every day is more susceptible to sunburn than an Irish red head who freckles and burns in 15 minutes? Someone told you that once and you accept it without any more evidence, despite any and all other evidence?

There is such a thing as genetic variation, and there is a lot more of it in Africa than elsewhere. Why would you suppose they would all be the same any more than that your average Norwegian and your average Italian would be same in amount of melanin content in the skin?

So what mechanism do YOU propose is responsible for population differences?

22 posted on 01/27/2011 4:59:57 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
First things first. What do you mean by There are not three distinct races.

Is not black a race? Is not white a race? Is not mongoloid a race? What does the term 'race' mean to you?

23 posted on 01/27/2011 5:04:59 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White)
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To: babygene
Only the coolest, admittedly whackiest, thought provoking books on the origins of mankind around:

http://www.amazon.com/Forbidden-Archeology-Hidden-History-Human/dp/0892132949

24 posted on 01/27/2011 5:06:10 PM PST by InternetTuffGuy
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To: ReverendJames
Neanderthals were widespread in Eur-Asia, and DNA analysis reveals there were human but different than modern humans.

These quite husky chaps appeared to suffer no vitamin deficiencies!

25 posted on 01/27/2011 5:06:24 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: ReverendJames
Where do you draw the line that you get three, let alone three that are distinct? Where do you shoehorn people from New Guinea and Australia - "Negroid" because of the color of their skin? They are closer to both Asians and Caucasians than Africans.
26 posted on 01/27/2011 5:06:43 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: SunkenCiv


27 posted on 01/27/2011 5:10:02 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Visualize)
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To: ReverendJames
How did there come to be three races, or forty two different races, or any number of different races?

Do you have an explanation for how?

Are you at all interested in finding one, or knowing one?

Or are you like 0bama in that it is “above your pay grade”?

28 posted on 01/27/2011 5:10:49 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Eyes Unclouded
"Oppenheimer when asked if his was the first ever detonation of of a nuclear bomb, he said. ‘Yes, in modern times’."

There's some evidence in the Venona Files that Oppenheimer colluded with Claus Fuchs to give the Soviets the US's atomic secrets.

29 posted on 01/27/2011 5:11:22 PM PST by blam
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To: allmendream; SunkenCiv

Interesting.
So far, I’ve only been able to get back to Adam and Eve. Any suggestions?


30 posted on 01/27/2011 5:11:51 PM PST by Monkey Face (Someone, please help me! I've lost my mind and don't know where to find it! ]o:)
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To: allmendream
Don't rely too much on the genetic diversity argument. The analysts who determined that DNA shows that the European and Asian ancestry is predominantly that of the San People in Africa ALSO found that there are only 14 major haplogroups in Africa, one of which is that of the San People. The San, in turn are the source of the other 13 groups.

So, let's say there's one race ~ the San People ~ all that does is cut us off from the differences in the other 13 main haplogroups, plus the various subgroups in the Northern hemisphere.

Interesting that ONE offshoot of the San ~ the folks who moved out of Africa some 75,000 years ago, constitutes about 85% of modern humans!

Does that mean that Africa is not good for us? Or does that say something about us?

31 posted on 01/27/2011 5:12:12 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Africa is actually a not very good place for humans, and hasn’t been. That is where most human pathogens are found. That is where malaria is such a fact of life that sickle cell anemia is also a fact of life.


32 posted on 01/27/2011 5:15:52 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Monkey Face

Nice that you can get back, but how do you go forward?

How did humans develop our obvious differences between populations?

What was the mechanism?


33 posted on 01/27/2011 5:19:03 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
Ok, well you've now lost the argument when you go on a personal attack and try to compare me with Obama and the "above your pay grade" line. I thought we had a nice discussion going here and you have to interject that into the equation. Nice chatting with you.

Regards,

34 posted on 01/27/2011 5:19:45 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White)
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To: decimon
Proof modern humans arived 150,000 years ago


35 posted on 01/27/2011 5:20:20 PM PST by McCloud-Strife ( USA 1776-2008)
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To: allmendream
That is where malaria is such a fact of life that sickle cell anemia is also a fact of life.

It's carrying the sickle cell trait that increases survivability if you contract malaria.
36 posted on 01/27/2011 5:20:45 PM PST by aruanan
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To: allmendream

Ok, well if you look at your chart going backwards you’ll see the distinct differences. Is a Norwegian in the negroid group? Is an Australian Aboriginal in the Mongolian group?


37 posted on 01/27/2011 5:21:40 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White)
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To: muawiyah
"Neanderthals were widespread in Eur-Asia, and DNA analysis reveals there were human but different than modern humans.

We are Neanderthals:

Neanderthals, Humans Interbred, DNA Proves

Recently, a new human species has been discovered in Siberia (see below) and the DNA from these new humans are found only in the DNA of modern Melanesians.

Siberian Fossils Were Neanderthals’ Eastern Cousins, DNA Reveals

38 posted on 01/27/2011 5:22:42 PM PST by blam
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To: allmendream
There most certainly are “residual traces” in that the genes work perfectly in the blackest of black people, and they work less so in the whitest of white people, and not at all in an albino.

The genes work perfectly well in both light and dark people. It takes about 1000 years before skin color starts to shift lighter or darker in a population depending on where it moves to.
39 posted on 01/27/2011 5:24:26 PM PST by aruanan
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To: ReverendJames
I didn't compare you to 0bama, stop the histrionics.

I asked if you considered the subject “above your pay grade” as 0bama famously copped out.

You were copping out, not being 0bama.

If I asked someone “You ‘pay for that microphone’ like Reagan?” I wouldn't be comparing them to Reagan, but using a famous example of the phrase.

Apparently such an answer is “above your pay grade”.

Nice cop out.

40 posted on 01/27/2011 5:24:54 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: aruanan
What is the mechanism that causes it to “shift lighter or darker” in 1000 years if not changes in DNA?

Are there another molecule that get passed on hereditary that only you know about?

41 posted on 01/27/2011 5:27:07 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
, stop the histrionics.
42 posted on 01/27/2011 5:30:26 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White)
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To: Eyes Unclouded

“Oppenheimer when asked if his was the first ever detonation of of a nuclear bomb, he said. ‘Yes, in modern times’.”

As in India?


43 posted on 01/27/2011 5:31:49 PM PST by dljordan ("His father's sword he hath girded on, And his wild harp slung behind him")
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To: ReverendJames
You need to look at that chart again.

A Sicilian has less genetic distance between himself and a Japanese person than either has with a Thai person.

You want to lump Japanese people and Thai together, but that is not based upon any objective standard, but upon superficial similarities.

If you want to go 3 races they would be...

1) New Guinean/Australian
2) Asian/Caucasian
3) African

If you want to go further down the chart you can also get 5, and they would be....

1) New Guinean/Australian
2) African
3) Indians/Middle Eastern/European/etc
4) Korean/Japanese/Siberian/American-Indian/etc
5) Thai/Polynesian/Philippine/etc

There are distinct differences, that is not at all under debate; just how you can possibly get three, and where you would put New Guinean/Australians?

44 posted on 01/27/2011 5:34:15 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: InternetTuffGuy

“Michael Cremo’s “Forbidden Archeology” should be required reading. “
___________

ROFL

Few asylums even allow reading, less “required reading”.


45 posted on 01/27/2011 5:36:08 PM PST by Little Pharma
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To: muawiyah
the folks who moved out of Africa some 75,000 years ago, constitutes about 85% of modern humans! Does that mean that Africa is not good for us? Or does that say something about us?

To me it suggests that the genetic "bottleneck" theory related to the explosion of the Toba supervolcano in Indonesia may have validity. Genetic evidence suggests the world's entire human population was reduced to between 1,000 and 10,000 breeding pairs as a result of that calamity about 70,000 years ago. All humans alive today, the theory says, are descended from them. A great deal would depend on where those surviving breeders were located. Maybe they were the San descendants who migrated out of Africa.

46 posted on 01/27/2011 5:41:15 PM PST by Bernard Marx
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To: Little Pharma
Few asylums even allow reading, less “required reading”.

Blubba flubba goo goo moo moo gerkin. That's what you just said.

47 posted on 01/27/2011 5:43:22 PM PST by InternetTuffGuy
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To: allmendream

I’m not lumping similar genes together as you say like Chinese and Thai. They’re mongoloid. Within each race, as your chart points out, there are differences. What I was intimating was there are only three distinct races and within those races are sub-races such as Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Lao, etc. But they’re all considered or classified as mongoloid.


48 posted on 01/27/2011 5:43:22 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White)
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To: ReverendJames

I read several years ago that Caucasians and Mongoloids ((ncluding American Indians) all share a gene that indicates a common male ancestor that lived in Central Asia more than 30,000 years ago.


49 posted on 01/27/2011 5:44:24 PM PST by haroldeveryman
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To: ReverendJames
My question is when did they become white and move to Europe?

With more and more research into the past of humans, researchers will "discover" that, humans started in the northern climates and went south in search of the warmer climates, sort of the "snowbirds" of the prehistoric ages.
50 posted on 01/27/2011 5:45:55 PM PST by adorno
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