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How to get your dishwasher back (Make phosphate detergent) Vanity
Self | 2/13/2011 | self

Posted on 02/13/2011 1:14:16 PM PST by dickmc

Pittsburgh isn’t even in the Chesapeake watershed. However, like everywhere else apparently phosphates have disappeared from dishwasher detergents. The result is dishes that aren’t particularly clean and feel ‘slimy’.

After some checking, I found that the disappeared phosphate content in dishwasher detergent was around six percent. On a recent visit to the plumbing supply store to get some parts, I found that they still had one pound boxes of the real TSP (trisodium phosphate Na3PO4); not the fake ersatz 'TSP' stuff that Home Depot is only selling. In fact, the real TSP is still available all over the net.

Not being able to find any phosphate containing dishwasher detergent at any grocery store, I decided to make my own. Here’s how:

1. Buy a large 7.5 pound bottle of gel type dishwasher detergent.

2. Dump in a bucket and add one-half of a one pound box of TSP. This will make a 6.25% mix of TSP in the detergent. (Actually the weight percent of Phosphate in TSP (Na3PO4) is 58% making the Phosphate in the mix 6.25 x 0.58 or 3.6% …but… that’s good enough for government work!)

3. Stir with a paint stick. If you want, add a half-cup of water to somewhat reduce the gel viscosity.

4. After about one minute of stirring, the TSP particles will be thoroughly distributed in the gel. (They don’t dissolve but that’s OK as long as they are evenly mixed.)

5. Put back in the bottle ...with the leftover in the empty bottle. (A funnel helps which I had from garage stuff.)

Tried it out yesterday.

.

VIOLA! The dishes are now 'squeaky' clean with no slime film. Also, the dishwasher insides now look clean again.

Enjoy the info.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Health/Medicine; Miscellaneous; Science
KEYWORDS: dishwasher; phosphate; tsp; vanity
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1 posted on 02/13/2011 1:14:19 PM PST by dickmc
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To: dickmc

Sounds good to me. Dirty dishes NOT tolerated!


2 posted on 02/13/2011 1:16:00 PM PST by momtothree
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To: dickmc

Can’t buy TSP, so how will this work, exactly?
The majority of places where they banned phosphate detergents also banned TSP (tri sodium phosphate).


3 posted on 02/13/2011 1:16:58 PM PST by BuffaloJack (Re-Elect President Sarah Palin 2016)
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To: dickmc

That is a great way to make a batch, I’ve not previously thought of making batches. I have been adding 2 tblsp. of trisodium phosphate to each load I run - the results are great! No food particles sticking to dishes and crystal clear glass with no film.


4 posted on 02/13/2011 1:17:37 PM PST by RobertClark (On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.)
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To: BuffaloJack

EXACTLY!
tell us where to get the TSP?

I’ve looked around a lot of places in Indiana and come up empty.

Do I have to bootleg it from out of state?


5 posted on 02/13/2011 1:18:06 PM PST by nascarnation
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To: dickmc

We’re using dry detergent, and adding 1/2 TBS of dry tri sodium phosphate to every individual load...It works, but it’s time consuming, and your recipe sounds well worth trying.


6 posted on 02/13/2011 1:18:46 PM PST by kaylar (It's MARTIAL law. Not marshal(l) or marital! This has been a spelling PSA. PS Secede not succeed)
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To: dickmc

lightbulbs. dish detergent.

what’s next?

If they’re truly concerned about the environment, you’d think they would ban the birth control pill.


7 posted on 02/13/2011 1:18:47 PM PST by surroundedbyblue
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To: dickmc

Can you liquify it in water fist THEN mix it?>

I do dishes by hand and the lack of horsepower in the sink diswasher soap annoys me too.

Is it lacking phosphates too?

I took every dish out of the cabinet yeserday and washedm them al a second time. It took me nearly a quarter bottle of soap...grrrrrrrrrrr


8 posted on 02/13/2011 1:19:38 PM PST by Mr. K ("Diversity is an obstacle to be overcome, not a goal to be achieved" -Ann Coulter)
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To: dickmc

You can achieve the same results by using a sponge with dishwashing soap to get the grease off your dishes BEFORE putting them in the dishwasher.

Really, you should never expect a machine to get food clinging to dishes and utensils off completely. Next time you’re in a restaurant take a close look at the flatware — you’ll see exactly what I’m talking about.


9 posted on 02/13/2011 1:20:08 PM PST by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT!)
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To: nascarnation

I found Lowe’s stocks it, make SURE the box you buy is NOT marked Trisodium phosphate PF (take a wild guess what the “PF “ stands for...Yep, “phosphate free”) . They keep the PF stuff next to the Real Thing, in virtually identical boxes. In our store, it’s with the deck cleaning stuff.


10 posted on 02/13/2011 1:20:33 PM PST by kaylar (It's MARTIAL law. Not marshal(l) or marital! This has been a spelling PSA. PS Secede not succeed)
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To: dickmc

Dirty, slimy, and discolored silverware. Great.........NOT


11 posted on 02/13/2011 1:22:09 PM PST by Carley (ARAB STREET NO DIFFERENT THAN AMERICA'S LEFT)
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To: BuffaloJack

Where do you live? We can get it here in Kansas...for now, I guess.

All the major manufacturers of dish soap have removed the phosphates, to simplify their lives. I had no idea some places had banned it from other cleaning products at the hardware store.

I don’t know the chemistry of why it works...but boy does it WORK. I don’t make a recipe...just add some to each load, along with the regular gel.

PS - don’t tell the enviro-idiots about phosphorous in our fertilizer.


12 posted on 02/13/2011 1:25:07 PM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: dickmc

Rather than go to all that trouble, would it work to add perhaps a quarter teaspoon to each load?


13 posted on 02/13/2011 1:26:37 PM PST by Excellence (Buy Progresso, take off the label, write "not halal," mail to Campbell's soup company.)
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To: nascarnation
EXACTLY! tell us where to get the TSP? I’ve looked around a lot of places in Indiana and come up empty. Do I have to bootleg it from out of state?

Plumbing supply stores may have it. Otherwise, type TSP in google shopping. Over 50,000 hits!!! Just read the adds carefully to make sure you're getting the real stuff and not the fake substitute.

14 posted on 02/13/2011 1:28:09 PM PST by dickmc
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To: BuffaloJack

Any good hardware store or paint store should have TSP.

#10611 1 lb. Savogran TSP is the most common brand and product number.

I sold it for 30+ years.

Cannot run a paint department without it.


15 posted on 02/13/2011 1:28:56 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: SatinDoll

“You can achieve the same results by using a sponge with dishwashing soap to get the grease off your dishes BEFORE putting them in the dishwasher.”

Actually, if you look at the bottle of phosphate free detergent, it actually recommends that you leave the food on the dishes. I think there is some hope that the fat in the food will soften the water (make it more wet), which is what phosphates do.

Trust me, I tried pre-washing, and it didn’t work. If you have water with alot of minerals in it, the removal of phosphates causes a problem - a white layer of soap/mineral scum is welded to the dishes. I got to the point where I was prewashing and post washing the dishes...and about gave up on the dishwasher.

A sprinkle of the magic ingredient (which has been in dish soap for decades), and presto - no more problem.


16 posted on 02/13/2011 1:31:55 PM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: dickmc
I found the real TSP at Home Depot, but you do have to read the containers carefully. I have not tried it yet in my dishwasher.

I have noticed that the boxes seem to be very poorly put together, the tsp leaks out of the bottom corner.

17 posted on 02/13/2011 1:32:28 PM PST by susannah59
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To: dickmc

There’s a product at Home Depot that has TSP in large black letters but it does not contain tsp. Check the box carefully to make sure it doesn’t say ‘phosphate free’. 20 Mule Team Borax has sodium tetraborate. It’s great stuff. Great cleaner.


18 posted on 02/13/2011 1:32:53 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White)
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To: dickmc; OldNewYork; MotherRedDog; sayuncledave; CatholicEagle; 0beron; cobyok; surroundedbyblue; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.


19 posted on 02/13/2011 1:34:46 PM PST by narses ( 'Prefer nothing to the love of Christ.')
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To: surroundedbyblue
You forgot,'corn based fuel that is believed to mess up the engines, AND cause a shortage of food for humans and grains for livestock.'

And since the year 2000, I've noticed that colognes and other fragrance products no longer have any staying power.Yves Rocher was the first one I noticed : Citing environmental concerns, they removed the chemicals from their fragrances, going to all natural ingredients and something called "head space". The last few fragrances I've bought from Yves Rocher and completely dissipated and undetectable in about one minute. Needless to say, I no longer purchase from this company , and I once loved their products.

20 posted on 02/13/2011 1:34:51 PM PST by kaylar (It's MARTIAL law. Not marshal(l) or marital! This has been a spelling PSA. PS Secede not succeed)
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To: dickmc

Interesting. We add tsp 40:60 to our dry soap detergent. Helps a lot. You can still buy tsp at hardware stores here in California. (Shhh, do the libbies know?).


21 posted on 02/13/2011 1:35:51 PM PST by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: BuffaloJack

10611 1 lb. Savogran TSP

This is what you look for.

22 posted on 02/13/2011 1:36:36 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: dickmc

bttt


23 posted on 02/13/2011 1:37:18 PM PST by LibertarianLiz
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To: dickmc

This is one of these cases where having 4 years worth of supplies (of everything) buys me some time to adapt (I just have to remember not to replenish right away).


24 posted on 02/13/2011 1:38:51 PM PST by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: dickmc

Want an easier way to get the old dishwashing detergent that works? Buy it from a restaurant/hotel supply store. The phosphate ban doesn’t apply to them. They’re easy to find and buy from - I got a case of 6 which should last most of the year. It’s ridiculous that we have to resort to stuff like this, but that’s what the environmentalist movement is all about - making life harder for ordinary people.


25 posted on 02/13/2011 1:43:24 PM PST by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: dickmc

THANKS!!


26 posted on 02/13/2011 1:47:59 PM PST by nascarnation
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To: dickmc

THANKS!!


27 posted on 02/13/2011 1:48:15 PM PST by nascarnation
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To: SatinDoll
Years ago I escorted a cook to the chow hall. He rejected most of the forks before he found a clean one. As an aside I had to feed a stray dog we had picked up so one of the people in the chow hall saved me a bag of cold cuts that had not been eaten. As I was walking out one of the people eating asked what I was going to do with them. I said “Their for the prisoner” . Groans when up all over.
28 posted on 02/13/2011 1:50:22 PM PST by Domangart
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To: Mr. K
For hand-washing the original blue Dawn is good - it's what places like SeaBird Sanctuary use on seabirds in Florida after an oil spill. Gentle enough for birds - strong enough to get the oil off...
29 posted on 02/13/2011 1:50:22 PM PST by GOPJ (http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php - World Disaster Map)
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To: SatinDoll

**You can achieve the same results by using a sponge with dishwashing soap to get the grease off your dishes BEFORE putting them in the dishwasher.**

Following the above, if you use hot water and rinse well after the sponging.. you can delete the entire dishwasher, completely.
You’ve already WASHED the damn things!!


30 posted on 02/13/2011 1:50:41 PM PST by gwilhelm56 (Egypt 2011 = Iran 1979)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
Want an easier way to get the old dishwashing detergent that works? Buy it from a restaurant/hotel supply store. The phosphate ban doesn’t apply to them.

Can everyday citizens buy in those places? Thought you had to have a tax number or something...

31 posted on 02/13/2011 1:52:28 PM PST by GOPJ (http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php - World Disaster Map)
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To: gwilhelm56
I have a pre-wash cycle. No problems.


32 posted on 02/13/2011 1:56:02 PM PST by Daffynition ( Live EACH DAY as if it were your last, but EXPECT that there still may be a tomorrow.)
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To: kaylar

I have been having trouble with my cologne (Nina Ricci).

I’ve tossed many half full bottles out because of lack of scent.

What do we look for,or avoid?

I thought it was me.


33 posted on 02/13/2011 1:56:28 PM PST by Mears
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To: GOPJ
I got mine from here. I found more all over the Internet.
34 posted on 02/13/2011 1:57:35 PM PST by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: gwilhelm56

“...You’ve already washed the damn things!”

Actually, they’re not as clean as what a dishwasher would achieve. Sponges or dishrags carry lots of bacteria.


35 posted on 02/13/2011 1:58:36 PM PST by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT!)
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To: GOPJ

Blue Dawn is what I use to pre-clean dishes and utensils.


36 posted on 02/13/2011 2:00:11 PM PST by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT!)
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To: dickmc
We have been to more than one Home Depot and they insist that they don't have trisodium phosphate Na3PO4.
37 posted on 02/13/2011 2:03:39 PM PST by wintertime
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To: Excellence

That’s what we do. I am SO glad to have clean dishes again!


38 posted on 02/13/2011 2:06:01 PM PST by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: SatinDoll

My DH bought some green dishwasher detergent and it sucked. If I were going to wash my dishes first I wouldn’t bother putting them in the machine. I just get the food chunks off.
No kidding, the dishes were gross, washed them for a second time before I realized the problem, they were just as gross after two washes.


39 posted on 02/13/2011 2:08:49 PM PST by libbylu
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To: Mears
Avon is *just* as bad as Yves Rocher, I know that to my cost. For awhile, Avon's MARK division had good, strong, lovely scents, but the last two I bought (Peony Apple and Berry Cranberry) were the weakest yet. What do I buy? I am going online and buying the fragrances I love from ebay and other sites, such as Bonanzel (sp?) , Ruby Lane, or Etsy. So far (knock wood!) I've not been ripped off with imposters or dilutes. I buy fragrances from roughly 1988-1995 : I have some from earlier than that, even all the way back to the 1960s , and *so far* all of them have been good....None have "turned". Since Yves Rocher is French, I'm guessing EUropean perfumers are as bad as those in North America, about switching to "environmentally friendly" bases that are cheaper for them and a lot weaker for the consumer.

And this is *JUST* a guess/theory on my part : But it is well known that moslems refuse to wear alcohol including sd alcohol, which WAS the base for many if not most fragrances. I know Avon and some others went to alcohol free fragrances for the moslem market overseas. Is it *just* possible that the "environment" excuse was BS, and it's really because it's cheaper and easier to just make EVERYTHING for the moslem market, rather than doing a batch for Jordan, Egypt, SA, etc, and another batch for Europe, North America, and Asian markets? Just make everything halal friendly, just as some fast food joints in the UK and the USA went to all halal meat first for areas with large moslem populations, and then pretty much everywhere? I know I got a bottle of Jovan's Wild Honeysuckle that was for the moslem market overseas (lots of squigglies on the box and on the label on the underside), and it smelled wrong and weak. This was back in the late 1990s, and I bought it from one of those discount beauty supply catalogs. I later bought a "vintage" bottle off ebay, and it smelled as I remembered, so I am sure it was the alcohol substitute that made the other bottle smell "off" and gave the scent no staying power.

40 posted on 02/13/2011 2:10:17 PM PST by kaylar (It's MARTIAL law. Not marshal(l) or marital! This has been a spelling PSA. PS Secede not succeed)
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To: Texas Fossil

What department in a hardware store would have this stuff?


41 posted on 02/13/2011 2:16:54 PM PST by Galatians513 (this space available for catchy tagline)
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To: kaylar

Thanks for that info,kaylar.

I will have to do a little more research,I guess.

Very informative post.


42 posted on 02/13/2011 2:21:17 PM PST by Mears
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To: Texas Fossil

Wierd, I just bought a 4.5 lb box from that auction site this morning. I hope it’s the real stuff. Same brand. Interesting how the net has sped things up so dramatically! We’re all criminals now!!


43 posted on 02/13/2011 2:28:55 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: dickmc

I found this at my local kroger store and it really made a huge difference in my dishes...mr conservativehusker wanted a new washer but this made her happy

http://www.azperfume.com/Lemi-Shine-Dishwater-Detergent-Additive-Super/A/B002NUX8V8.htm?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=bing


44 posted on 02/13/2011 2:39:26 PM PST by conservativehusker (Ben Nelson makes me ashamed to be a Nebraskan. (Kinda like Bill Calahan once did))
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To: dickmc

Isn’t the viola a cousin to the cello?


45 posted on 02/13/2011 2:44:13 PM PST by Elsiejay (.)
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To: Elsiejay
Isn’t the viola a cousin to the cello?

The primary difference between the viola and the cello is that the cello burns longer.

46 posted on 02/13/2011 2:47:58 PM PST by paulycy (Islamo-Marxism is Evil.)
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To: Galatians513

You should be able to find it in the paint department. That’s where I have purchased it in the past.


47 posted on 02/13/2011 2:54:35 PM PST by in the wind
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To: Galatians513

Normally in the Paint Department.

If the store does not carry paint, look in the cleaning supplies area.

Almost all stores that carry paint, carry TSP.


48 posted on 02/13/2011 2:59:25 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Freedom4US

The regulatory nazi’s and the greenie idiots are destroying the nation and attempting to make us all slaves.

WAR.....


49 posted on 02/13/2011 3:02:00 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

Thanks for trying - when I click on your link I get this:

Document Not Found

Sorry, the requested document does not exist on this server.


50 posted on 02/13/2011 3:02:30 PM PST by GOPJ (http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php - World Disaster Map)
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