Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Should public sector workers have the right to unionize?
The CourierPress ^ | 2/22/11 | Eric Bradner

Posted on 02/22/2011 12:27:41 AM PST by HMS Surprise

INDIANAPOLIS — Over the howls of hundreds who are gathering at the Statehouse to protest, Republican state lawmakers are pushing forward this week with several measures that reduce the influence of organized labor.

Funding for unions could suffer a blow under the most controversial of those bills — one that would allow workers at all Indiana businesses to choose not to pay union membership dues. Proponents call it "right to work," and a House committee endorsed it Monday.

(Excerpt) Read more at courierpress.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: 0bamamustgo; 0fraud; extortion0bamastyle; fdrsaidno; freep; jimmyqaeda2; no; nobargaining; nobc; poll; ribs4mocchelle; sedition; unacceptable0bama; unacceptablebullshit; unexpectedbullshit; unions; wisconsinshowdown
Freep this poll!
1 posted on 02/22/2011 12:27:53 AM PST by HMS Surprise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

HELL, NO !


2 posted on 02/22/2011 12:28:57 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Amber Lamps !"~~)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

No.

There is no need for adherence to realistic pay schedules when the employer is the government, which doesn’t have to abide by the same rules as business.

If the government overpays people, they do so with OPM (other people’s money) and are immune to immediate (or even eventual) correction by market forces.


3 posted on 02/22/2011 12:32:45 AM PST by mountainbunny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

imagine if the kids have the ability to create an union against their parents.


4 posted on 02/22/2011 12:32:47 AM PST by 4rcane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mountainbunny

They can go politicking all they want, but on their own time please.


5 posted on 02/22/2011 12:35:41 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

Hell, NO too!

Collective bargaining as defined from a piece by Mish Shedlock at his blog site:

“direct your attention to Shane Atwell’s rock-solid rationale as to why collective bargaining is extortion.

‘Collective bargaining’ is not what its name indicates. In fact, it means exactly the opposite of what you’d guess. Collective bargaining refers to the obligation of an employer to recognize the elected representatives of a group of workers and his further obligation to negotiate with those representatives. This last part is what makes ‘collective bargaining’ extortion.

Under collective bargaining laws, employers have to recognize an elected union and have to negotiate with them.

Imagine if the tables were turned and employers had the right to ‘employer bargaining’, under which the employer could demand whatever pay reductions or workday increases he wanted, the employees had to negotiate with the employer, and employees couldn’t quit!

[Such an arrangement] could only be classified as slavery.

The right to terminate the employer-employee relationship is a fundamental right of both employer and employee. Employment should be mutually beneficial to employer and employee and open to termination by either when it becomes non-beneficial (limited of course by any voluntary contractual agreements).

Collective bargaining laws have achieved two things for unions and union members. First the negotiations strongly tend in one direction until the employer moves his operations offshore [or to another state not subject to collective bargaining]. This ratcheting is inevitable given that employers are forbidden their ultimate tool: terminating employment.

Second, the misnamed [term] ‘collective bargaining’ has given an aura of moral righteousness to the unions who pretend to be fighting for true American values like the freedom of association. [However], they are fighting for values quite foreign to [the United States], values that come from Marxist collectivism, i.e. the expropriation of the property of employers and the negation of their rights.

[Therefore, wages and benefits garnered under collective bargaining arrangements are fraudulent in nature and should therefore be subject to revision.]

Contact your representatives and urge them to fight collective bargaining. [Please] support ballot initiatives [to restrict or eliminate collective bargaining] when they appear.

Any text in brackets above is mine. Thanks Shane. And good luck to Lanny Ebenstein in his mission to help right the wrongs in California.

Mike “Mish” Shedlock”


6 posted on 02/22/2011 12:37:32 AM PST by givemELL (Does Taiwan eet the Criteria to Qualify as an "Overseas Territory of the United States"? by Richar)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

50% YES, 49% NO - ONLY 51 VOTES THUS FAR.


7 posted on 02/22/2011 12:40:25 AM PST by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

No 55% 34

Yes 44% 27

total votes: 61


8 posted on 02/22/2011 12:48:17 AM PST by Gator113 (I'm voting for Sarah Palin, Liberty, our Constitution and American Exceptionalism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fieldmarshaldj

No they have civil servantr protectiions on top of Sate, Federal and county laws.

“The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service,” President Franklin D. Roosevelt wrote in 1937 to the head of the National Federation of Federal Employees. In the private sector, organized employees and the employer meet across the bargaining table as (theoretical) equals.

But in the public sector, said FDR, “the employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress.” Allowing public-employee unions to engage in collective bargaining would mean opening the door to the manipulation of government policy by a privileged private interest.


9 posted on 02/22/2011 12:52:32 AM PST by NoLibZone (Impeach Obama. Then try him for treason.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise
Uh.... NO!!!!
10 posted on 02/22/2011 1:00:09 AM PST by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise
Uh.... NO!!!!
11 posted on 02/22/2011 1:00:09 AM PST by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: givemELL

Well, it’s even worse than that when it comes to public employees. They’re saying that they have a right to negotiate with/coerce the elected representatives of We the People.

That’s not republican self-government. It’s something else entirely.


12 posted on 02/22/2011 1:03:42 AM PST by EternalVigilance (No President who performs his duties faithfully and conscientiously can have any leisure. - JK Polk)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

NO!


13 posted on 02/22/2011 1:26:42 AM PST by MissMack99 (Mitt Romney is a FRAUD, he RUINED Mass. Don't let him finish Obama's job.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

Don’t the tax payers pay for a large portion of their health care?


14 posted on 02/22/2011 1:32:37 AM PST by Netizen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

“Unions” imply strikes, and public workers should not be allowed to strike.
The idea of “working for the public” means something like “working for the greater good”.

I know, I know. Worn out concepts...


15 posted on 02/22/2011 1:46:02 AM PST by djf (Sometimes you are The Old Man and the Sea. But most times, you are the fish!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: djf
“Unions” imply strikes, and public workers should not be allowed to strike.

Especially when we as taxpayers get no breaks in paying taxes while government workers are out on vacation strike.

The idea of “working for the public” means something like “working for the greater good”.

That's the funny thing. If they really do believe they are doing the public a favor, then why take any salary? If these loser non-teachers really believe that they are doing this "for the children" then they should have no problems taking pay cuts or even working for free. Of course, most of us don't think that public sector workers should work for free, but the idea that they should is the logical extension of their mentality of thinking they're doing us all a favor.

Insisting that civilian public sector workers be compensated in a manner similar to the private sector is not asking too much.

16 posted on 02/22/2011 3:06:37 AM PST by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

No. We can thank John F. Kennedy for this debacle. Public sector unions received a boost in 1962 when President John F. Kennedy signed Executive Order 10988, which granted bargaining rights to federal employees. The pace of organizing among all public sector unions subsequently accelerated.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=58926


17 posted on 02/22/2011 3:15:08 AM PST by broken_arrow1 (I regret that I have but one life to give for my country - Nathan Hale "Patriot")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pnh102
Insisting that civilian public sector workers be compensated in a manner similar to the private sector is not asking too much.

That's my main beef. They shouldn't have more job security than anyone else. They shouldn't have better benefits than the average person who has to pay for their own health care or has to settle for less.

Why should joe average who is scrimping to get by have to pay high taxes just so they can have top benefits? A lot of people are laid off and or having to cut back. Why not them? Plus they get 3 months vacation per year.

18 posted on 02/22/2011 3:24:54 AM PST by Netizen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

Hell if this Keeps up the Unions will need more dues to Bus all The Protestors around the Country!!!!!
Keep it up ,sorry Ineed some Relief I live in Connecticut and we Have a Newly Elected Democrat Governer and Democrat Legislature Forever and we are Getting a 1.5 billion dollar Tax Increase ON EVERYTHING,but dont worry the Gov Is asking the Unions for 1 billion in Concessions which I am Positive he will Get ! HA


19 posted on 02/22/2011 3:27:16 AM PST by ballplayer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

NO!!! And I say that as a public employee. (Local govt)


20 posted on 02/22/2011 3:32:28 AM PST by sneakers
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pnh102

At the very least, unions shouldn’t be allowed to run a “closed shop” for public employees. No one should be forced to join a union. State/city governments should not be responsible for collecting union dues either.


21 posted on 02/22/2011 3:37:51 AM PST by FBD (My carbon footprint is bigger than yours)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

Civil serpents should not be able to bargain labor agreements with the state. They should be free to join and support employee associations which lobby the government, as any other citizen can, but not bargain contracts.

We also need state laws along the lines of the federal Hatch Act, enacted in the late 30’s in response to exactly the same abuses at the federal level that are commonplace in state and local government today: civil serpents engaging in partisan political activity while on the government payroll. Citizens have a constitutional right to engage in partisan political activity. They do not, however, have a constitutional right to a government job.

I was teaching a class years ago for a group of about 40 state civil serpents. A union goon came into the room just before lunch and announced to the group that department heads had authorized anyone who wanted to attend a Mondale rally that afternoon to do so. I only had about three people for the afternoon session, and I imagine many other non-essential (i.e., most of them) government employees in the city were at the rally, being paid by the taxpayer while cheering on their leftist democrat hero. I’d be willing to bet that the same thing occurred in Obama’s election campaign: if you had the ability to identify the participants in the rallies, you would very likely find a large percentage were government employees, most being paid by the taxpayer while cheering Odumbo on. This is simply completely intolerable.


22 posted on 02/22/2011 4:44:29 AM PST by Spartan79 (Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

Uhm, NO!


23 posted on 02/22/2011 4:59:26 AM PST by Buckeye Battle Cry (At DiDi's Used Guns, if we can't kill it, it's immortal - DiDi Snavely, Proprietor)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

No 70% 211

Yes 29% 90

total votes: 301

Come on we can do better than this .. only 301 votes???


24 posted on 02/22/2011 5:28:29 AM PST by Robe (Rome did not create a great empire by talking, they did it by killing all those who opposed them)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Robe

No 70% 248
Yes 29% 105
total votes: 353


25 posted on 02/22/2011 6:04:52 AM PST by 2001convSVT (That Beck guy was right about gold, too.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

The problem with public sector unions is that they use their vast pot of dues to make lavish campaign contributions to the very politicians who give them what they want ...in essence bribery or at the very lest a conflict of interest. Let them have their unions and collective bargaining, but make it illegal for any public sector union to make political contributions of any kind monetary or non monetary.


26 posted on 02/22/2011 7:38:30 AM PST by The Great RJ (The Bill of Rights: Another bill members of Congress haven't read.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: The Great RJ

BUMP!


27 posted on 02/22/2011 10:36:27 AM PST by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson