Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Argument for Girl-Boy Wrestling
christianitytoday.com/women ^ | February 22, 2011 | Caryn Rivadeneira

Posted on 02/23/2011 10:34:48 AM PST by InvisibleChurch

When my friend posted a link to the story of Joel Northrup — the 16-year-old Iowa wrestler who defaulted rather than wrestle a girl, Cassy Herkelman, in a state tournament last week — I was floored when my athletic, competitive friend said she had “mixed emotions” about his decision. I imagine this friend, had she pursued wrestling and not track and field in high school, would’ve wanted the opportunity to wrestle. Even if it meant competing against the boys.

My reaction to this story was decidedly unmixed. I think Joel should have wrestled Cassy.

Not that I don’t get some of the issues at play here. I understand that teenage boys, as a rule, are stronger than teenage girls. I understand that boys wrestling girls could introduce some sexual awkwardness. I agree that the best-case scenario would be for Cassy to be able to wrestle in an all-girls wrestling conference.

But in this world, best-case scenarios almost never exist. So our job as Christians is to figure out how best to live and behave in these broken scenarios, how to be “salt and light” in every arena.

Which brings me back to Joel, since he cited his Christian faith as reason to default.

In his statement, Joel said, “Wrestling is a combat sport and it can get violent at times. As a matter of conscience and my faith I do not believe that it is appropriate for a boy to engage a girl in this manner.”...

(Excerpt) Read more at blog.christianitytoday.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: moralabsolutes; wrestling
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-68 next last

There is a wide variety of opinions following this article.

1 posted on 02/23/2011 10:34:49 AM PST by InvisibleChurch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

Didn’t Christianity Today use to be a Christian publication? When did they start advocating porn?


2 posted on 02/23/2011 10:42:18 AM PST by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

Are you a blog pimp? Why didn’t you just post the article?

No matter. Who cares what their analysis is. What matters is mine.

(Egotistical little bugger, aint I?)

This whole boy/girl wrestling debacle is a simple matter of femi-nazis trying to gain control over men. This is simply a power play to “prove” that women are equal to men. If not superior. That girls can do anything a boy can.

It’s a political game.

Based on this - we should ignore these nags and hags. Don’t wrestle girls. Don’t fall victim to the goals of NOW and other leftist loonies.


3 posted on 02/23/2011 10:44:55 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (Yes, as a matter of fact, what you do in your bedroom IS my business.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

It would suck to get your butt kicked in wrestling by a girl.


4 posted on 02/23/2011 10:48:18 AM PST by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/28/08 and why?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

I think they should institute mud wrestling.


5 posted on 02/23/2011 10:49:36 AM PST by Paladin2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Christianity Today can only be excerpted. I’m not a pimp, I’m a ho.


6 posted on 02/23/2011 10:50:28 AM PST by InvisibleChurch (The great American prostate exam continues.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch
And why not have them wrestle nude as well? After all, any issues with that are just the male’s fault for being hypersensitive to sex and sex role stereotyping. If a young male can't run his hands all over a girl and twist her arm until she submits, without taking away the wrong message, that is his fault.

In fact, girls and boys shouldn't even have a choice in this, as their cultural misconceptions need to be “normalized”. Just strip them all down and have them wrestle. Who could possibly complain about such an empowering exercise in sex neutral recreation? And get rid of the separate locker rooms, which are just encouraging girls and boys to be overly modest.

7 posted on 02/23/2011 10:50:30 AM PST by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

I mean this in the most respective way and really don’t mind playing sports with girls, but I really do not like playing competitive sports with girls. You play too hard and you are a jerk for playing hard against a girl. You play to soft and she looks better then you and you get blasted for that. It’s a no win.


8 posted on 02/23/2011 10:51:06 AM PST by justice14 ("stand up defend or lay down and die")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All

I was visiting a football message board and this topic came up.
One of the posters relayed a story about a friend of his who was put in a similar situation.
His friend was an All-State wrestler and because of all the PC nonsense was slated to wrestle a girl.
The wrestler started the match and proceeded to DESTROY the young girl, hurting and humiliating her....she never wrestled again.
Perhaps this young lady will come across someone with a similar mindset and re-think her foolish notion that she is equal to boys in every endeavour....
Our creator made us very different and with good reason.
To ignore this difference is insulting to God.


9 posted on 02/23/2011 10:51:48 AM PST by Maverick68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye

Sorry, a boy hs NOTHING to gain in a vctory, and everthing to lose in a defeat. That’s reality. Is it worth the potential humiliation of a boy who is expected to become a responsible husband and father one day. I coached baseball, and I’d resign before I ever played a girl ahead of any boy. Males have very fragile egos when it comes to being physically whipped by a girl. That’s an immutable fact, like it or not. Bob


10 posted on 02/23/2011 10:53:02 AM PST by alstewartfan ("He's only come to bring another perfect dream." Al Stewart from "Shah of Shahs")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: SampleMan

The boy is always in a no-win situation. When he wins - he beat a girl. When he loses - he lost to a girl.

Either way, he doesn’t win.


11 posted on 02/23/2011 10:53:06 AM PST by Lando Lincoln
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

lolol.

Good for you. That is one of the best rejoinders I’ve seen in a long, long time.


12 posted on 02/23/2011 10:53:43 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (Yes, as a matter of fact, what you do in your bedroom IS my business.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: alstewartfan
Males have very fragile egos when it comes to being physically whipped by a girl.

That's pretty much what I said isn't it? And don't call me Bob. ;^)

13 posted on 02/23/2011 10:54:47 AM PST by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/28/08 and why?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch
My reaction to this story was decidedly unmixed. I think Joel should have wrestled Cassy.

Then, Caryn, it's a good thing you didn't have the final decision.

14 posted on 02/23/2011 10:55:19 AM PST by Colonel_Flagg ("It's hard to take the president seriously." - Jim DeMint)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch
The writer criticises the kid for evoking his faith as his reason for not wrestling a girl, then implies that Jesus would've approved if he had.

No sale.

15 posted on 02/23/2011 10:55:22 AM PST by skeeter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch
I wonder if he would be arrested for sexual assault if he used the "butt drag" move on her.
16 posted on 02/23/2011 10:56:08 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: alstewartfan
Males have very fragile egos when it comes to being physically whipped by a girl.

This kid had something like a 35 - 4 record. I don't think losing to a 25 - 13 opponent was a big concern.

17 posted on 02/23/2011 10:57:32 AM PST by skeeter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: SampleMan

Mud wrestling! Put my vote in for mud wrestling.


18 posted on 02/23/2011 10:58:22 AM PST by donhunt (I am sick and tired of those bastards lying to me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch
Since wrestling is a sport that involves constant ‘up close & personal’ physical contact, I can't understand how parents would condone their kids involved in grappling & groping on a mat on a gym floor in front of many strangers yet would not stand for the same activity on a bed in the privacy of a bedroom of their house?
19 posted on 02/23/2011 10:58:41 AM PST by varon (Allegiance to the Constitution, always. Allegiance to a party, never!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

Mainstream Christianity in the US today has become a caricature.


20 posted on 02/23/2011 10:59:48 AM PST by Altura Ct.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lando Lincoln

Hey we had boy/girl wrestling when I was in High school!
Okay, it was usually after school and the girl was sometimes a reluctant participant.
We called it “dating”!


21 posted on 02/23/2011 11:02:09 AM PST by 9422WMR (Illegal is not a race.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

Do we let males and females directly compete in baseball, softball, basketball, football, soccer, etc? Even in non contact sports such as golf or tennis women have their own teams. Why is wrestling different? Why is it ok to make boys uncomfortable in a sport for the benefit of a few girls who want to participate? If there aren’t enough females interested to form their own conference, too bad.


22 posted on 02/23/2011 11:04:07 AM PST by Conan the Conservative (Crush the liberals, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the hippies.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: skeeter

Skeeter, a loss would be humiliating, period. It matters not that he probably would have won. He had NOTHING to gain, and I frankly think it’s a little weird for any guy to WANT to wrestle a girl. BTW, assuming that her 25 wins were victories over boys, there are 25 boys who will remember their humiliation for a lifetime. Wonder why there are so many men who resent women? It starts when there is not a healthy respect and separation between sexes. Bob


23 posted on 02/23/2011 11:06:39 AM PST by alstewartfan ("He's only come to bring another perfect dream." Al Stewart from "Shah of Shahs")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Lando Lincoln
Either way, he doesn’t win.

The corollary to that is that either way, she wins.

I've got no problem with boys and girls competing in non-contact sports and there are plenty of them-- softball, tennis, ping-pong, baseball.

But I see no way to take down a girl without there being a sexual connotation.

24 posted on 02/23/2011 11:07:24 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

The article purports to be a Christian rebuttal to the reasoning of the boy for not wrestling the girl. BUT, she offers absolutly no scripture to back up her position. Towards the end she cites a couple of verses but they have noting to do with this issue. She completely fails to address the “weaker vessel” argument which the boy was obviously relying on. All the article covers are the author’s “feelings” about the matter. In the end her argument is that the boy was wrong because she says so.


25 posted on 02/23/2011 11:07:24 AM PST by circlecity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch





26 posted on 02/23/2011 11:08:28 AM PST by bigjoesaddle ("Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged". - Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: alstewartfan

I agree, I’m just saying I think we should take this kid at his word - it was his understanding of the requirements of his faith that compelled him.


27 posted on 02/23/2011 11:08:52 AM PST by skeeter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: skeeter

I should add that physical separation is esp. important to boys in their formative years, and much less important in a softball and tennis league in later years. Bob


28 posted on 02/23/2011 11:09:47 AM PST by alstewartfan ("He's only come to bring another perfect dream." Al Stewart from "Shah of Shahs")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: SampleMan
Just get rid of the locker rooms, period. Let’em (make’em!) take ALL their classes nude, and just have coed cold showers. Oh, and no more “separate but equal” rest rooms, either.

If we're ever going to “normalize” them, they need to be completely “normalized”.

Enough of all this false modesty and prudery.

After all this isn't the Middle Ages; it's the Century of the Fruit Bat, so let's make them act like it!

29 posted on 02/23/2011 11:11:14 AM PST by ApplegateRanch (Made in America, by proud American citizens, in 1946.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye

I replied to the wrong posting, Bob. LOL Sorry!


30 posted on 02/23/2011 11:13:22 AM PST by alstewartfan ("He's only come to bring another perfect dream." Al Stewart from "Shah of Shahs")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Nailed it; and it’s probably also all about Title IX and sports funding so let’s face the truth. If they “mix” the wrestling the boys will do what they almost always do.....walk away and then it’ll be an all girl sport and then, just like “girls” basketball, we know “who” will come out on top of that such that it’ll be “Gay Girls” wrestling, but by way of Title IX, they’ll be able to show some parity thing under a formula. And it may well be driven by the football coaches who are under ever more “dollar” pressure. Who knows.


31 posted on 02/23/2011 11:15:10 AM PST by Rich21IE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: skeeter

must be one of those bizzaro womyn wryters.


32 posted on 02/23/2011 11:16:01 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

Coed Sumo
33 posted on 02/23/2011 11:16:11 AM PST by SC DOC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: skeeter

I have taken the opposing argument on another thread about this. But if the boy defaults based on his religious convictions, that’s fine. But please don’t use the excuse of “fragile egos”. That’s insulting. Those same fagile egos will likely have to compete against women in certain jobs in the future. If these fragile egos can’t handle it, too damn bad.


34 posted on 02/23/2011 11:18:43 AM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: SgtHooper

Not my term. IMO teen male egos are no more fragile than those of their female counterparts.


35 posted on 02/23/2011 11:21:16 AM PST by skeeter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: alstewartfan

Shirley, you jest. It made sense even if it wasn’t meant for me. I just thought you were taking a contrary position. Which would be apropo of wrestling. lol


36 posted on 02/23/2011 11:23:30 AM PST by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/28/08 and why?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Paladin2
I think they should institute mud wrestling.

Ox agrees.

37 posted on 02/23/2011 11:24:00 AM PST by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Vigilanteman
But I see no way to take down a girl without there being a sexual connotation.

By that logic male vs. male wrestling has homosexual connotations.

38 posted on 02/23/2011 11:28:20 AM PST by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/28/08 and why?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: skeeter

Understand skeeter. Just picked it up via your comment. Rhetorically, if the girl had won the title in her weight class, these fragile egos who lost wouldn’t be so traumatized. I know how the sport works.


39 posted on 02/23/2011 11:32:02 AM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: SgtHooper

“But please don’t use the excuse of “fragile egos”. That’s insulting. Those same fagile egos will likely have to compete against women in certain jobs in the future. If these fragile egos can’t handle it, too damn bad.”

It’s always the boys that have to sacrifice because females want to intrude on their activity. Why is it never “too damn bad” that girls cant find enough wrestlers to form their own conference?


40 posted on 02/23/2011 11:33:47 AM PST by Conan the Conservative (Crush the liberals, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the hippies.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye

Agreed. I am amazed at how many posters think this is a sexual interaction rather than simply a competition between people of the opposite sex.


41 posted on 02/23/2011 11:36:08 AM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Conan the Conservative

Point well taken.


42 posted on 02/23/2011 11:38:21 AM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

The writer misses the point. It is HIS choice to wrestle, or not, and take the consequences. Which he did.

She is wrong in saying that he should have decided differently. She has no dog in this hunt.

Christians are not in the business of affording opportunity to others where we are obliged to give up our own core beliefs.


43 posted on 02/23/2011 11:39:06 AM PST by chesley (Eat what you want, and die like a man.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Conan the Conservative

Cuz then they’d be lesbians? j/k


44 posted on 02/23/2011 11:39:52 AM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye
By that logic male vs. male wrestling has homosexual connotations.

Sometimes it does. I saw this among some of my acquaintances in junior high school. I never wanted anything to do with wrestling after that.

45 posted on 02/23/2011 11:39:52 AM PST by 3niner (When Obama succeeds, America fails.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: 3niner; SgtHooper

They weren’t really competitively wrestling then. It’s hard to get turned on when your head is being ground into the mat or your shoulder is in the process of being dislocated. At least it wasn’t exciting to me in that way.


46 posted on 02/23/2011 11:45:28 AM PST by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/28/08 and why?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: 3niner

You’re right about that. While I certainly understand the instinctual, competitive nature of impromptu “wrestling” among young men, I was always a bit unnerved at the organized variety. I suppose it is one of the “purer” athletic endeavors, but I’d rather tango with a lady in bed than a boy on a mat.


47 posted on 02/23/2011 11:48:00 AM PST by Mr. Bird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

“When Joel refused to wrestle Cassy, he took an opportunity away from her. An opportunity for her to shine using her own God-given strength and ability. An opportunity to win or lose, fair and square.”

What about what Cassy took from Joel by inserting herself into a traditionally male sport and creating an unnecessary moral dilema? Seems rather selfish for her to make everyone else uncomfortable and have to adapt for her benefit. I applaud the young man for not abandoning his principles for the sake of a cheap, meaningless HS trophy.


48 posted on 02/23/2011 11:52:52 AM PST by Conan the Conservative (Crush the liberals, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the hippies.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: justice14

Exactly. My husband is a wrestling coach and has told his guys he will never make them wrestle a girl.


49 posted on 02/23/2011 11:53:05 AM PST by Spudx7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

1. With or without the chin strap, the wrestling uniform look probably doesn't do it for most high school boys. I don't see any significant risk of sexual attraction during a match, regardless of how rough or soft she is in terms of her technique.

2. I don't see this as an appropriate coed sport. If the school system wants her to wrestle, they can create a girls' wrestling league, even if she's the only athlete in her league.

3. I would not blame a guy who went all out against her, nor would I blame a guy who refused to wrestle her. I also would hope that most high school guys are not so delicate that they would fall to pieces if she beat them (it's probably the guy's first match against a girl, where she's used to wrestling guys).

50 posted on 02/23/2011 12:12:11 PM PST by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-68 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson