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Some say Georgia bill criminalizes miscarriages
KWCH ^ | February 23, 2011 | Chris Durden

Posted on 02/24/2011 4:22:11 PM PST by blade_tenner

From the proposed law:

'Prenatal murder' means the intentional removal of a fetus from a woman with an intention other than to produce a live birth or to remove a dead fetus; provided, however, that if a physician makes a medically justified effort to save the lives of both the mother and the fetus and the fetus does not survive, such action shall not be prenatal murder. Such term does not include a naturally occurring expulsion of a fetus known medically as a 'spontaneous abortion' and popularly as a 'miscarriage' so long as there is no human involvement whatsoever in the causation of such event. (c) The act of prenatal murder is contrary to the health and well-being of the citizens of this state and to the state itself and is illegal in this state in all instances. (d) Any person committing prenatal murder in this state shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, shall be punished as provided in subsection (d) of Code Section 16-5-1.


TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: abortion; georgia; kittychow; miscarriage; roevwade; wtf; zot
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Finally, finally, someone is serious about protecting the unborn. Why aren't miscarriages treated like any other death? If a million babies or young children died every year from some disease, food allergies or other cause, wouldn't there be a collective outcry?

I've said it here for years, until we REALLY AND TRULY start treating the unborn like any other citizen, we will never end legal abortion. Our failure to acknowledge that simple fact broadcasts to everyone that we really don't believe that abortion is murder. Miscarriage should be treated exactly like finding a body of a child - possible murder. We need to support bold and principled politicians like Rep. Bobby Franklin.

1 posted on 02/24/2011 4:22:15 PM PST by blade_tenner
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To: blade_tenner

Unless it’s a naturally occurring biological event I don’t see how you can make a law against that happening. Or did I read it wrong?


2 posted on 02/24/2011 4:25:15 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White.)
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To: blade_tenner

It looks like “eyewitness news” didn’t actually read the law.

More lies from the MSM.


3 posted on 02/24/2011 4:26:03 PM PST by Fido969 ("The hardest thing in the world to understand is income tax." - Albert Einstein)
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To: ReverendJames

The law PROTECTS miscarrages.

If the state want to bring charges, it’s up the THEM to prove otherwise. “Mother Jones” is just lying about what the law says, and the idiots in the media are repeating what they are told to.


4 posted on 02/24/2011 4:27:49 PM PST by Fido969 ("The hardest thing in the world to understand is income tax." - Albert Einstein)
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To: blade_tenner

The headline doesn’t match the text of the law...the text of the law says miscarriages are exempt.


5 posted on 02/24/2011 4:27:57 PM PST by rangerwife (Proud wife of a Purple Heart Recipient)
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To: blade_tenner
Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Your title is DIRECTLY contradicted by the excerpt that you posted.

Such term does not include a naturally occurring expulsion of a fetus known medically as a 'spontaneous abortion' and popularly as a 'miscarriage' so long as there is no human involvement whatsoever in the causation of such event. (emphasis added)

6 posted on 02/24/2011 4:28:51 PM PST by VRWCmember (Veritas vos Liberabit)
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To: blade_tenner
Many spontaneous miscarriages are due to genetic abnormalities in the developing fetus.

The unborn are not citizens, and according to the Constitution are not citizens until they are born.

7 posted on 02/24/2011 4:30:27 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: blade_tenner

Why does the headline at the link say:

“Some say Georgia bill criminalizes miscarriages”

and yours says something different?


8 posted on 02/24/2011 4:31:28 PM PST by macquire
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To: blade_tenner

I had a miscarriage 42 years ago. If I could go back to that day, knowing what I know now, I would have asked for the remains to have been respectfully wrapped at the hospital and we would have had a funeral in our immediate family and buried the remains someplace beautiful (probably in a cemetery since there’s no guarantee anyplace else that graves won’t be disturbed), and marked the grave with a real tombstone, with name and date of birth and death.


9 posted on 02/24/2011 4:33:23 PM PST by Twinkie ( PEACE)
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To: blade_tenner

So, he’s basically saying no abortions? Well, abortions are legal in this country, so this bill is going nowhere.


10 posted on 02/24/2011 4:34:01 PM PST by goldi (')
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To: VRWCmember
“no human involvement whatsoever in the causation”?

How about if the Doctor told you to that there was an increased chance of miscarriage unless you remained hospitalized the last months of pregnancy - and the patient refused that suggestion?

Miscarriage = legal penalty due to some human involvement in the causation = Criminalize (some) Miscarriages.

11 posted on 02/24/2011 4:36:29 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: blade_tenner
If I read the proposed law correctly it explicitly mentions that a spontaneous miscarriage is not prenatal murder absent the hand of man. It gives legality to the life in the womb by criminalizing an act that takes that life...self defense in this case would establish a high level of insanity of the perp.
12 posted on 02/24/2011 4:41:55 PM PST by crazyhorse691 (Now that the libs are in power dissent is not only unpatriotic, but, it is also racist.)
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To: blade_tenner

Interesting. Essentially same thing posted over at DU at 6:14. How long would it take someone to go from posting it there to posting it here? 6 to 8 minutes?


13 posted on 02/24/2011 4:43:48 PM PST by macquire
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To: Fido969

Mother Jones. Believe it or not I used to subscribe to that rag. Ok, I remember Virginia wanting women, or requiring women who’ve had miscarriages to report them. Like it was a law for them to do so.


14 posted on 02/24/2011 4:48:45 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White.)
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To: ReverendJames

Back in the 70’s my brother was a radical left wing kook (he’s still pretty liberal but a wife and couple of kids have calmed him down a bit) and he bought everyone in the entire family a subscription to Mother Jones magazine.


15 posted on 02/24/2011 4:56:30 PM PST by fkabuckeyesrule
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To: blade_tenner

>>“no human involvement whatsoever in the causation”?<<

I’m as Pro-life Catholic as you get but I have a problem with this wording. It can be used against anyone.

What if a woman doesn’t even know she is pregnant and miscarries through stupidity, like getting drunk and falling down the stairs? There is no law against drinking or being stupid. Now we are going to prosecute her?

This is not right and I’m glad it will never see the light of day.

There is a difference between this and fetal murder laws.


16 posted on 02/24/2011 4:59:26 PM PST by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice.)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

It was back then when I was reading it. I’ve soon learned. Was it Mother Jones or Mother Earth News? Now I forget.


17 posted on 02/24/2011 5:00:43 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White.)
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To: blade_tenner

A [natural] miscarriage is hardly ‘intentional.’

i.e. if it *is* intentional it’s not a miscarriage.


18 posted on 02/24/2011 6:00:56 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: blade_tenner

unless its a bloody clump of clot in the toilet right? or are we to call 911 to look at the miscarriage in the toilet or go to jail? idiot


19 posted on 02/24/2011 6:04:05 PM PST by annelizly
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To: annelizly
Okay folks, simple question: Do you believe that human life exists as fertilized egg onward, or don't you? Are you serious about protecting innocent life from conception forward or aren't you?

By the comments here, we aren't'... a "blob in the toilet"??? That's the feeling in this forum?? If the unborn aren't considered citizens in every respect as born, there is no hope for criminalization of abortion.

20 posted on 02/25/2011 8:08:04 AM PST by blade_tenner
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To: Twinkie
I am sorry for your loss. But to read some of the posts here, your baby would be considered nothing other than "a clump".

We have a very long way to go on the issue of pre-born citizens. Most all of the MSM reporting has been very dirisive on the Georgia Rep.'s efforts. The more detailed reporting has been from far-left pubs such as Huff-Po and Mother Jones. That tells me they are taking this seriously, and are putting in the big gun efforts to shoot it down.

That the reporting is negative is to be expected. What takes me aback is that many in this forum share that same attitude. If we don't take preborn life seriously, then we'll continue electing "pro-life" politicians who need prolife support for election, then go on to ignore the prolife battles in office.

21 posted on 02/25/2011 11:16:48 AM PST by blade_tenner
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To: netmilsmom
What if a woman doesn’t even know she is pregnant and miscarries through stupidity, like getting drunk and falling down the stairs?

The only women who should be concerned are married women... and if you are child-bearing age, being prepared to bring a child into the world in a healthy manner should be your number 1 priority. Otherwise you are living in sin, and a law such as this one is one way to force responsibility on people. From the code:

SECTION 2.14. Said title is further amended by revising subsection (a) of Code Section 31-10-18, relating to registration of spontaneous fetal deaths, as follows: "(a) A report of spontaneous fetal death for each spontaneous fetal death which occurs in this state shall be filed with the local registrar of the county in which the delivery occurred within 72 hours after such delivery in accordance with this Code section unless the place of fetal death is unknown, in which case a fetal death certificate shall be filed in the county in which the dead fetus was found within 72 hours after such occurrence. All induced terminations of pregnancy shall be reported in the manner prescribed in Code Section 31-10-19. Preparation and filing of reports of spontaneous fetal death shall be as follows: (1) When a dead fetus is delivered in an institution, the person in charge of the institution or that person's designated representative shall prepare and file the report; (2) When a dead fetus is delivered outside an institution, the physician in attendance at or immediately after delivery shall prepare and file the report; (3) When a spontaneous fetal death required to be reported by this Code section occurs without medical attendance at or immediately after the delivery or when inquiry is required by Article 2 of Chapter 16 of Title 45, the 'Georgia Death Investigation Act,' the proper investigating official shall investigate the cause of fetal death and shall prepare and file the report within 30 days; and (4) When a spontaneous fetal death occurs in a moving conveyance and the fetus is first removed from the conveyance in this state or when a dead fetus is found in this state and the place of fetal death is unknown, the fetal death shall be reported in this state. The place where the fetus was first removed from the conveyance or the dead fetus was found shall be considered the place of fetal death."

22 posted on 02/25/2011 11:48:56 AM PST by blade_tenner
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To: blade_tenner; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
I've said it here for years, until we REALLY AND TRULY start treating the unborn like any other citizen, we will never end legal abortion.

Really? I read just about every pro-life thread on FR and post a good many of them and I don't recall ever seeing you on pro-life threads.

Now, I did find a recent post by you were you suggest that post-abortive women should be executed, is that what you're talking about?

Miscarriage should be treated exactly like finding a body of a child - possible murder.

Most women who have miscarriages are devastated by them, and you want to treat them like criminals?

My overall impression of you is that you are a "concern troll" who is saying outrageous things in an attempt to make the pro-life movement look bad.

23 posted on 02/25/2011 11:49:06 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: allmendream
The unborn are not citizens, and according to the Constitution are not citizens until they are born.

No, they're PERSONS, which the Constitution explicitly protects.

24 posted on 02/25/2011 11:53:32 AM PST by EternalVigilance (But what is Freedom? Rightly understood, a universal license to be good. -- Hartley Coleridge)
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To: EternalVigilance

I replied to a post saying that we should treat the unborn “like any other citizen”.

The unborn are not citizens.


25 posted on 02/25/2011 11:56:48 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
That's correct.

As I said, they are persons.

This is an explicit distinction made in Section One of the Fourteenth Amendment.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Citizens have privileges and immunities that non-citizen persons do not have. But all persons within every jurisdiction have God-given unalienable rights which must be protected -- citizen and non-citizen alike.

26 posted on 02/25/2011 12:04:16 PM PST by EternalVigilance (But what is Freedom? Rightly understood, a universal license to be good. -- Hartley Coleridge)
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To: blade_tenner

I think you’re a troll.


27 posted on 02/25/2011 12:05:12 PM PST by EternalVigilance (But what is Freedom? Rightly understood, a universal license to be good. -- Hartley Coleridge)
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To: wagglebee; blade_tenner; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
The owner of FR would love this one.

Post 13 Monday, January 24, 2011 9:07:13 AM by blade_tenner

Let me repeat: the Free Republic website celebrates the murderers of children.

28 posted on 02/25/2011 12:06:01 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: EternalVigilance

Absolutely - just as one/the Fed/the State cannot imprison indefinitely without trial or murder a non U.S. citizen (absent a state of War). They have unalienable rights that should be recognized.

But they are not citizens.

That was my point. ‘Treated like every other citizen’ is a faulty formulation because they are NOT citizens.

‘Treated with human dignity as a person’ would have gone without remark or criticism from me.


29 posted on 02/25/2011 12:10:21 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: DJ MacWoW

Yes. I saw that one.


30 posted on 02/25/2011 12:10:50 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

There’s more.


31 posted on 02/25/2011 12:12:57 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: blade_tenner

Why would you say something like that to a woman who is still mourning a miscarriage? It’s needlessly cruel.


32 posted on 02/25/2011 12:13:04 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: EternalVigilance
I think he's a troll, too.

That being said, I observed some time ago that "life begins at conception" legislation could result in miscarraiges being investigated as potential homicides by prosecutors that were either overzealous or had an axe to grind with someone.

I was told it was a "strawman" argument and that such a thing could never happen.

I expect I'd have been told the same thing 35 years ago if I'd suggested the when Richard Nixon proposed creation of the EPA they'd try to declare carbon dioxide to be "air pollution".

33 posted on 02/25/2011 12:13:26 PM PST by tacticalogic
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To: EternalVigilance

IATZ!!!!


34 posted on 02/25/2011 12:14:42 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: blade_tenner
The only women who should be concerned are married women... and if you are child-bearing age, being prepared to bring a child into the world in a healthy manner should be your number 1 priority. Otherwise you are living in sin, and a law such as this one is one way to force responsibility on people.

*****************************************

That doesn't make any sense.

35 posted on 02/25/2011 12:16:25 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham; blade_tenner
He doesn't really believe any of this. He's saying what he THINKS Conservatives would say.

Post 28 Monday, January 24, 2011 9:27:21 AM by blade_tenner

Most women who miscarry in this country just flush the "tissue" down the toilet. I've never been to a funeral for a "miscarriage". We don't treat the unborn seriously at all in this country.

Sounds to me like a lib pretending to be "conservative".

36 posted on 02/25/2011 12:16:32 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: wagglebee; DJ MacWoW; EternalVigilance

He’s gone.


37 posted on 02/25/2011 12:18:56 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

He was NASTY!


38 posted on 02/25/2011 12:20:46 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW

He certainly wasn’t pretending to like women.


39 posted on 02/25/2011 12:20:52 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: DJ MacWoW

Very bizarre.


40 posted on 02/25/2011 12:22:07 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham
He honestly sounded like someone that would blow up an abortion clinic.

Women have been lied to about abortion. When the realization hits of what they've done they need compassion and they often end up the most ardent supporters of life.

41 posted on 02/25/2011 12:23:44 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW

I agree.


42 posted on 02/25/2011 12:27:57 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: DJ MacWoW

Yeah, but 20 years on a chain gang would be better!/s


43 posted on 02/25/2011 12:34:35 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream; EternalVigilance
The unborn are not citizens, and according to the Constitution are not citizens until they are born.

Where does it say that?

44 posted on 02/25/2011 12:35:52 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

It was already previously posted on this thread....

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.”

Congress was given power to adopt uniform rules of naturalization. According to these (a requirement of being 18 years of age is one of the rules) there is no way to naturalize the unborn.

Thus the unborn are not citizens, and until/unless the laws on naturalization are changed; they cannot be citizens.


45 posted on 02/25/2011 12:42:12 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream; VRWCmember; EternalVigilance; wagglebee; little jeremiah; DJ MacWoW; Markos33; ...

You evos would like nothing more than to charge women with murder for having a miscarriage. I’ve seen evos argue that before on threads when the issue comes up.

Exceptions are bad things to make rules over and yet all I ever see you guys do is say, *Yeah, well what about (insert improbable, implausible scenario here)?* as if that rare exception justifies you guys desire for draconian government control of our lives.

The baby that that woman is carrying is a human being from conception on and deliberately taking it’s life is murder.

Miscarriage is NOT murder and it is the height of absurdity to even conceive of the idea of charging a woman who miscarried with murder.


46 posted on 02/25/2011 12:43:18 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: DJ MacWoW
Heh ...

That name (and the irrationality associated with it) seemed famliliar ...

47 posted on 02/25/2011 12:43:24 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: allmendream
Yeah. That poster was out there.

Women of about 40 and under don't remember a time when abortion wasn't legal. Despite that I read that younger women are seeing abortion for what it is. I find that miraculous.

48 posted on 02/25/2011 12:43:49 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Yup. You had called him out before.


49 posted on 02/25/2011 12:45:05 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: metmom
Unhinged much?

I do not support either abortion or criminalization of miscarriages or draconian government control of our lives.

That should be obvious to all but the deliberately obtuse or the irrationally unhinged.

50 posted on 02/25/2011 12:46:18 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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