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Is the Lavish Cost of Recent Firefighter's Funeral in LA Another Example of Union Benefits Overkill?
Self | February 26, 2011 | Stayfree

Posted on 02/26/2011 10:36:44 AM PST by Stayfree

Thousands of firefighters in uniform on paid agency time came from different fire agencies all over Southern California to attend Glenn Allen's funeral bringing with them tens of millions of dollars of firefighting equipment, helicopters. Just the cost of fuel alone must have cost in the tens of thousands of dollars, notwithstanding the cost of salaries and accrued benefits of thousands of active duty firefighters. His funeral must have cost the taxpayers millions of dollars thanks to union rules that permit such a waste of taxpayer funds.

I personally mean no disrespect to his family, but if it were not for union rules, firefighters would have to attend funerals on their own time.


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: benefits; firemen; funeral; unions
Thousands of firefighters in uniform on paid agency time came from different fire agencies all over Southern California to attend Glenn Allen's funeral bringing with them tens of millions of dollars of firefighting equipment, helicopters. Just the cost of fuel alone must have cost in the tens of thousands of dollars, notwithstanding the cost of salaries and accrued benefits of thousands of active duty firefighters. His funeral must have cost the taxpayers millions of dollars thanks to union rules that permit such a waste of taxpayer funds.

I personally mean no disrespect to his family, but if it were not for union rules, firefighters would have to attend funerals on their own time.

1 posted on 02/26/2011 10:36:48 AM PST by Stayfree
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To: Stayfree

People shouldn’t get paid to attend a funeral, unless they work for a funeral home.

Unthinkable......


2 posted on 02/26/2011 10:39:03 AM PST by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: Stayfree

A few years ago, thousands of State, Federal, County, City police cars descended on Albuquerque for the funeral of two ABQ P.D. officers killed by a psycho. The rub is, three other civilians were also killed by that guy. No mention of them. Thousands of dollars of gas, overtime, plus the entire interstate system was clogged with emergency vehicles. A tremendous waste of money and time. While I feel bad for the families, their is NO WAY that any private enterprise could afford to do that every time an employee was killed. I saw police cars from every corner of the State of New Mexico participating. These people have no concept of money. Because they are spending other peoples money and that is very easy to do. Plus they enjoy far to much power, far to many pension benefits, and exemption from the laws that everybody else has to follow. It is time to trim back the power and money of the Federal, State, County, City, government. Vote “NO” to every bond issue. Go ahead... Vote in an irresponsible manner. I give you permission.


3 posted on 02/26/2011 10:44:04 AM PST by DariusBane (People are like sheep and have two speeds: grazing and stampede)
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To: KoRn

are you sure that they are being paid? If so, it’s a travesty. I’m all for honoring them when they die, but that’s a personal thing. Whoever is off that day can jump in a car and go honor the dead firefighter. We don’t need professional mourners.


4 posted on 02/26/2011 10:45:24 AM PST by mewykwistmas
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To: Stayfree

This was such a tragic story - the man was one year from retirement and was killed by a falling roof in a burning building, and his beloved daughter gave birth to his awaited first grandchild the DAY AFTER he died.

I was sad along with all of L.A. But I did not know that the fellow firefighters were PAID to attend his funeral. That doesn’t seem right.


5 posted on 02/26/2011 10:48:28 AM PST by Yaelle
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To: mewykwistmas

What happens when a soldier/marine etc dies? My grandad was a firefighter and to be honest, when one of them dies like that in the line of duty, I believe they are entitled to the same honour and respect as a serviceman who is KIA...


6 posted on 02/26/2011 10:51:41 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

I do not have a problem with the local station he worked at performing a full funeral. It’s when the whole damn city shuts down.


7 posted on 02/26/2011 10:55:14 AM PST by DariusBane (People are like sheep and have two speeds: grazing and stampede)
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To: Stayfree
I personally mean no disrespect to his family, but if it were not for union rules, firefighters would have to attend funerals on their own time.

I agree. Again, not wanting to be disrespectful, but police work and firefighting are not anywhere near the most dangerous occupations. Firefighting is 13th and police work is 10th with the most common cause of death being traffic accidents.

It still seems to be that the most important thing is who you are, as demonstrated by the aftermath of the Arizona shootings.

8 posted on 02/26/2011 10:58:38 AM PST by Prokopton
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

My comment was regarding the statement that thousands (or hundreds) of people were paid to attend. An honor guard is different, very different.


9 posted on 02/26/2011 10:59:56 AM PST by mewykwistmas
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To: DariusBane
The rub is, three other civilians were also killed by that guy. No mention of them.

Pop Quiz: Name the other folks killed or wounded in the Giffords shooting Arizona.

10 posted on 02/26/2011 11:04:38 AM PST by Islander7 (There is no septic system so vile, so filthy, the left won't drink from to further their agenda)
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To: Islander7

EXACTLY


11 posted on 02/26/2011 11:06:55 AM PST by DariusBane (People are like sheep and have two speeds: grazing and stampede)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

I don’t believe the Marine Corps shuts down when a fellow Marine’s life is lost. Marines don’t get paid to travel to area bases to pay respect. Some might attend in an official capacity as a part of a ceremony, i.e. a bagpiper, as part of a missing man formation overhead, and I’m sure their need to participate warrants being paid. And from what I know, the Marines rate their salary on rank and service. If there’s some grief pay or otherwise, I’d be surprised. I’ve never heard that. In fact, during our time on active duty, we often traveled to the “civilian” services *because* my husband felt there should at least be a few fellow squadron mates in attendance — even considering he’d already spoken to the family at the service held on base.

On a side note, I can’t even fathom the Marines having Union protection. What a riot that would be! But if *anyone* deserves to bleed the coffers of the gestapo, of our tax money, it *should* be the Marines.


12 posted on 02/26/2011 11:29:51 AM PST by getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL (*********************End automatic pay raises for congresscritters**)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

“when one of them dies like that in the line of duty, I believe they are entitled to the same honour and respect as a serviceman who is KIA...”

Nonsense. A firefighter is doing a hazardous job, just like a farmer or a coal miner. He isn’t picking up a gun and literally saving the nation from a malevolent enemy hell-bent on killing us all.


13 posted on 02/26/2011 11:35:01 AM PST by Blue Ink
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To: Stayfree

And also...

This is just street theater prepping the citizens of California for our inevitable showdowns with the public employee unions. Since a firefighter died, we can’t cut the pensions of all the secretaries sitting around state agencies polishing their nails and the prison guards who make more than UC professors.

They’ve got themselves a martyr now.


14 posted on 02/26/2011 11:43:01 AM PST by Blue Ink
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To: mewykwistmas

“are you sure that they are being paid? If so, it’s a travesty.”

I’m afraid that’s probably true. I’ve heard several versions of the dialog below from the state workers over the years. “Are you going to Phil’s funeral on Saturday?”

“Saturday! Heck no. Why didn’t they hold in Friday or Monday so I could take the day off with pay?”


15 posted on 02/26/2011 12:04:42 PM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
What happens when a soldier/marine etc dies?

Military folks are not paid by the hour, do not get overtime and are on DUTY 24/7 unlike many cops and firefighters, that won't eat a donut without being paid.

There are exceptions to the rule {like 9-11} and being a cop or firefighter is no picnic, but they chose it.

The vast majority of cops, unlike TV never fire their weapons away from the target range and their biggest confrontation is breaking up bar fights and domestic events.

16 posted on 02/26/2011 12:32:35 PM PST by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages, in honor of Standing Wolf.)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
My grandad was a firefighter and to be honest, when one of them dies like that in the line of duty, I believe they are entitled to the same honour and respect as a serviceman who is KIA...

Where do you get this? Get real...

These people do a job like anyone else and they get paid really, really well, and have top shelf government benefits...

They have *nothing* to do with military veterans or veteran combat deaths...

Gezzzz

17 posted on 02/26/2011 12:37:37 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

Well, my granddad was a firefighter in Britain from about 1950 to 1981, so he wasn’t paid particularly lavishly (in those days, having a job with a pension was lavish enough). But he did a job that involve going in to burning buildings and dragging people out on a fairly regular basis, risking death each time. Sure, it wasn’t exactly comparable to the military, because when they got off shift they could go home to their families and enjoy all the other benefits of civilian life, but when they are on duty, they are doing a dangerous and worthy job and some of them end up paying with their lives. My grandad watched his best friend fall to his death through the floor of a burning mill at one point, and eventually, he probably died as the result of a lot of the crap he inhaled in the days before there was proper breathing apparatus.
Like I said, I believe that firefighters, police etc who are killed in the line of duty are entitled to the same respect and honour as a serviceman who has also been killed in the line of duty. What you might consider about them when they are alive and unharmed is probably a bit different...


18 posted on 02/26/2011 1:19:44 PM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: Blue Ink

If you are trapped by flames in a burning building, he might be the one dragging your ass out of the flames. I can’t really see why that is a less worthy calling than picking up a gun and fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan..


19 posted on 02/26/2011 1:23:54 PM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
You can think anything you want...

People are killed performing their job duties all the time...Happens every single day regardless of profession.

Fact is fire department employees that belong to local governments are not veterans, and should not be treated as military veterans and in no way go through what military veterans do on a daily basis....Same with cops...

End of story...

20 posted on 02/26/2011 1:56:10 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
But he did a job that involve going in to burning buildings and dragging people out on a fairly regular basis

BTW, the majority of fire calls in today's America are for health issues dealing with the elderly and automobile collisions.. And most of those calls that are collision related, are minor in nature... Fact is, house fires are becoming a very rare thing....

21 posted on 02/26/2011 2:00:18 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
In fact, government fire employees very seldom do house fires anymore...

95 percent of the time, you'll see them at scenes of minor or moderate traffic accidents..It's what they spend most of their time doing today.....NOT dragging people out of burning buildings....lol..

22 posted on 02/26/2011 2:04:40 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

What firefighters do isn’t like going to the office and running the risk of being hit by a truck on the way there, we are talking about being told that they have to go into a dangerous situtation and put their lives on the line.
For everyone else, yeah, probably most of the calls are not dangerous ones, but when my grandad was doing it, mill and factory fires were a fairly regular occurrance, and on one occasion, he watched with his own eyes as his friend crashed through the floor. It was dangerous, they all understood that and it did involve having to put their lives on the line to protect others. It isn’t really in the same league as running the risk of an industrial accident...


23 posted on 02/26/2011 2:34:00 PM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
Stop with this bull sh*t.... If government fire department employees don't like what they do, they can go do something else....

They are not combat veterans and should not be treated as such, as you have suggested here...

That is absolutely ridicules...

24 posted on 02/26/2011 3:49:34 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

As I recall, soldiers and servicemen are volunteers, and weren’t forced into the jobs they do either. I can respect their service and sacrifice, but I think that civilian emergency service personel who die in the line of duty are also entitled to be recognised and honoured for their sacrifice as well...


25 posted on 02/26/2011 4:14:40 PM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
As I recall, soldiers and servicemen are volunteers, and weren’t forced into the jobs they do either.

Tell that to the tens of thousands that died fighting in Vietnam and other countries.

Fire department employee are not military veterans, regardless of what you say...

26 posted on 02/26/2011 4:29:27 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

The existance of the draft back then is not really relevent to the situation now, were all service members are volounteers.

But, now that you say it, back in WWII, people were also drafted into service as firefighters (and coalminers come to think of it) do they get to be treated with greater respect than volunteers then?


27 posted on 02/26/2011 4:57:04 PM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

Look if you want to treat civilian fire employees like military veterans go for it...

Knock yourself out...

(wow)


28 posted on 02/26/2011 5:06:55 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

Actually, I think I will. Now that I’ve been thinking about it, not all military veterans are the same. Some of them work in areas which aren’t exactly at the bleeding edge of the front line when they are in logistics or office clerks (not that their contribution is any less valuable, but why should they be considered better than people who ARE at the bleeding edge of civilian emergency work and suffer very real danger?)

In WWII, being a member of the Merchant Navy was actually more dangerous than any branch of the armed forces, being a drafted ‘Bevin Boy’ coal miner was also very filthy and dangerous work. They didn’t wear a snappy uniform, but without their contribution, we would all have been screwed just as much as we would have been without the fighting men. They got treated like non entities afterwards, and were denied their chance to march past the cenotaphs with the old soldiers, sailors and airmen until very recently.

Like I said, I’m not denigrating the service of members of the armed forces, but why do those who have worked in essential ‘civilian’ jobs and have often been killed as a result have to be treated as inferior beings and have their service denigrated by people like you?


29 posted on 02/26/2011 5:21:45 PM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: Stayfree

Firefighters were put on the earth by God to give Policemen heroes.


30 posted on 02/26/2011 5:28:51 PM PST by Vermont Lt (How long before the Mall becomes Tahifir Sq?)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
Obviously you're connected to, or benefit from the bloated government payroll, government benefits or government tax paid retirement, one way or another....

Fact is all these people, be they cops or fire employees are WAY over paid, and are literally choking the private sector tax payers off...In fact, in many areas ya got two fire trucks, a rescue truck and paramedics respond to the typical call of some sick old lady...It's ridicules and we can no longer afford this type of overlapping bloated government waste...

Enough!

31 posted on 02/26/2011 5:32:17 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

‘These people do a job like anyone else’

How quickly everyone forgets 9/11.


32 posted on 02/26/2011 5:47:59 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (No Better Friend, No worse Enemy!)
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To: dragnet2

Nope, I work very much in the private sector. However, I believe that there are plenty of overpaid high and middle level civil servants who deserve to have their salaries cut before frontline public sector workers do (in Britain at least).
However, I do agree that public sector pay and conditions, even in professions I have a lot of respect for sometimes take the mickey and is unrealistic even in education, police and fire etc.
However, that aside, I do believe that someone who does die in the line of duty in a profession were putting yourself on the line to help people is normal and expected is worthy of equal respect and honour to those who swear loyalty and wear a military uniform. I don’t think it is unreasonable that if a fireman falls whilst tackling a blaze, he deserves a special funeral that might be more expensive and ceremonial than that of someone in who rides a desk and dies of natural causes or in some kind of accident. I certainly think they deserve it if some military person who dies in a car accident or natural causes off duty is entitled to it...


33 posted on 02/27/2011 2:48:34 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
Nope, I work very much in the private sector.

You might, but I'd bet the rent, your still connected to or are somehow benefiting somehow from someone on the government payroll or benefit teet...

No doubt about it.

34 posted on 02/27/2011 12:38:16 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

Because the continued well-being and freedom of the United States is more important than my individual ass on fire. How do you not see that?


35 posted on 02/27/2011 12:44:25 PM PST by Blue Ink
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To: dragnet2

If you did, you’d be out on your ass outside your front door with the locks changed.
But still, even if I was a public sector worker, your argument is such an enormous strawman you could lock a virgin in it and set it on fire as a sacrifice to a pagan god.
Ad hominems are no substitute for a logical argument...


36 posted on 02/27/2011 3:30:43 PM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

Not buying....No sale...


37 posted on 02/27/2011 3:36:32 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

Believe whatever you want then mate, but I’m no liar and I have given no reason for you or anyone else to reasonably assume otherwise. I don’t know anything about you other than that you love strawmen and ad-hominems. That you have made clearly evident on this thread...


38 posted on 02/27/2011 3:48:04 PM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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