Skip to comments.Starting A New Currency is “Domestic Terrorism”?
Posted on 03/22/2011 10:33:23 AM PDT by RWB Patriot
This weekend, a North Carolina man was convicted of minting and circulating Liberty Dollars and Ron Paul Dollars that were valued based on the gold and silver they contained. The man, Bernard von NotHaus, now faces up to 25 years in prison and the forfeiture of $7 million worth of gold and silver that was taken by police in a raid.
The U.S. Attorney who prosecuted the case explains:
It is a violation of federal law to create private coin or currency systems to compete with the official coinage and currency of the United States.
But whats wrong with competition? As long as theres no fraud or counterfeiting which NotHaus has not been convicted of I would think that individuals should be allowed to use whatever currency they want.
(Excerpt) Read more at stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com ...
I guess the FEDS just don’t like someone who shows the public how valueless their dollar has become.
Putting ‘USA’ and ‘Dollar’ was not a very smart thing to do ...
How are his coins different from Barter? Barter is legal and one would be bartering his coins for goods and services.
Putting USA and Dollar on the coins was not a very smart thing to do ...
Our G.I. obamabucks can not take competition with actual cash value currency.
Ohhhh, did he print USA and Dollar on them? I didn’t see that in the article.
If the guy had printed gold coins with Snoopy or Bugs Bunny on them, he wouldn't be going to jail. Heck, he could even have called them "currency" or "legal tender". Casinos do it all the time, with no ill-effect. Instead, he printed coins with the "$" sign, and phrase that almost mirrors "In God We Trust" and several other points of similarity. That was his problem.
No matter how dumb or stupid a guy is he can be assured of finding lots of support here.
Every crook in the world would be happy to pass his own “currency”. What next, some one passing shinplasters will find support among the deluded?
Who verifies the gold or silver content of a coin?
Gullibility is not limited to the Left it appears.
Yea!It was dumb,But only the Feds can legally counterfeit our money.
Stoessel should review a little US history particularly the era of “Wildcat” banking after Jackson destroyed the Second Bank of the United States.
I know that someone 100 yrs ago in San Francisco “minted” their own money and people accepted it. I can’t think of the name, though
The way they seized the stuff makes it pretty clear that the gold and silver was genuine. My question is what happens to it afterwards? I will say I was on his mailing list for awhile out of curosity but if I had purchased any of his gold and silver coins I would have probably taken them to a jeweler to get them tested.
In economic terms they are totally different. Barter requires a double coincidence of wants. If I'm a chicken owning pickle wanter I need to find a pickle owning chicken wanter in order to make a trade. Because they are valued commonly, coins can serve as a medium of exchange thus solving the double coincidence problem. It's the whole point behind money and arguable anything that can serve as a medium of exchange can, at least in theory, be accused of competing with government money.
Handing over your country to a private banking cartel in 1910 was not a smart thing to do either. The Framers warned us.
You didn't see it because it's not in there. I would expect better work from Stoessel, I guy I ordinarily really like. This particular story is an example of shoddy reporting, at best. At worst, he's being intentionally deceitful.
Who verifies the value of government money?
The Constitution gives Congress the sole power to coin money and regulate its value. This guy was clearly working outside of constitutional bounds. I just don’t think terrorism was the right charge.
Abandoning the dollar does not make any sense. Nor is it that simple.
There are over 200 years of economic development, infrastructure, language and technology that fits into this equation.
Globally, the language of business is English and dollas US. The greatest innovators and inventors are still in the US.
They are not in the mideast as the marso muslim hussein wants us to believe. He is over the top on his muslim outreach and support of the caliphate.
The wildcat banking problem took care of itself. Or rather, the market took care of it. Review the history of Suffolk Bank, which served as a private bank note clearing house and effectively cleaned up the New England banking industry.
LOL! As compared to that worthless paper the private banking cartel creates out of thin air.
Okay - now drink a couple of beers and say that one out loud, quickly, three times... ;-P
As I recall banks issued their own demand notes in the US not that long ago. As far as I know, private currency is not illegal. It might be considered a security - and require SEC registration.
The USC (Art I, Sec 8) stipulates that Congress be vested in establishing weights & measures. Congress has written legislation that demands the Executive enforce those regulations.
"Who verifies the value of government money?"
The free market. As it should be.
“Who verifies the gold or silver content of a coin?”
I do, whenever I buy. The Feds’ money is worse. The last I checked, a penny was not copper and a dollar was made of cotton and linen.
I’d rather have the real deal. That’s not to say that this guy was doing something legal.
Joshua Abraham Norton (c. 1819 January 8, 1880). He declared himself Emperor of San Francisco, got a lot of free stuff from the locals.
He should have called it "20 Zilbutmoriks" which is his own unit of currency measure, and he'd be skippy-free today.
The local currency in Ithaca, N.Y., is called "Ithaca Hours." They are bought with U.S. dollars and can be traded with local shops for products or services. The southern Berkshire region of Massachusetts calls its currency "Berk-Shares" and in Traverse City, Mich., the currency is called "Bay Bucks."
Nothing different than using casino chips.
Our government does not like competition and they do not want citizens able to chart their own destinies. Anything can be done to you as long as the feds attach “domestic terrorist” to the proceedings.
Mine a the metal and create coins that simply state, 1 OZ, .25 Oz, and make sure the purity is accurate. You can make them all day long.
Put pretty pictures of naked women on them, and trade them for food.
Just make sure you don’t call them money.
No it doesn't. It grants Congress power to coin money and prevents state legislatures from doing so. It says nothing about private money or foreign money. Private bank notes and foreign specie were almost the only money available for the first seven decades after the constitution was ratified. The South is called "Dixie" because the most trusted money was issued by Citizens Bank in New Orleans - a bank owned by a French family who printed their notes in French. Dix is the French word for ten.
We have had a number of private mints in the US throughout history but they were able to verify their metal content etc. Several states are considering minting their own coins as we speak. The GA legislature passed a bill that says you can pay any debt in the state of GA with gold or silver coins. I think competition is on the way.
Here is the "tails" side, large scale.
If one sells an old silver dollar coin for more than one dollar in paper money, does that constitute “competing with government money?”
The GA legislature passed a bill that says you can pay any debt in the state of GA with gold or silver coins.
Yeah, real odd:
No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.
No. US currency may have an intrinsic as well as numismatic value. Buying or selling something based on numismatic value is not illegal.
I guess they figured it was time to get back to basics.
Yeah, Zero is debauching our currency but they go after a guy who survives, capitalist style. Goes to tell what is going on.
2/5 of an ounce for $20. I know some were saying this was now a good deal with the price of silver. But you wouldn’t break even til silver hit 50.
Bernard von NotHaus (not his real name) was running a scam.
I quote from his now-defunct website:
Best Offer is to become a Liberty Associate for $250.
Why exchange Federal Reserve Notes (US dollars) on a dollar-for-dollar basis when you can get the Liberty Dollars at a discount and use them at a profit.
Want to earn money, do good and have more fun? Then become a Liberty Associate for $250.
You will immediately receive $100 Liberty Dollars and all your future currency exchanges will be at the special discounted Associate Rate that is posted at the top of the Liberty Dollar home page.
Plus you can earn a $100 Referral for every Associate you sponsor. Sponsor only two people and you are now up $50 and you are on your way to making a significant difference to our country and its money.
All three bonuses are also included with the Best Offer. Click here to become a Liberty Associate.
It's a classic combination of a Ponzi scheme and a multilevel marketing scam.
It's also unconstitutional.
Congress, and not this unelected clown, has the authority to coin money.
RUN MICKY RUN!
i guess the only difference is that the detroit 'money' is really just worthless coupons whereas this guy was issuing coins with intrinsic value (ie: real money)
“Who verifies the gold or silver content of a coin?”
Who verifies the the value of a dollar bill? Certainly not the Fed.
Every transaction verifies the value of “government money”.
Now a bill or coin could be a counterfeit but that is a different issue.
That market correction took a long time and only occurred after years of fraud and large losses by those defrauded by these “banks”. And New England was not the center of the problem with the wildcats. They were most prevalent where there was an undeveloped banking system such as the frontier areas. I believed that is why they were called “wildcats” as in being located where wildcats were common.
The whole episode was another example of an insufficient money supply which always accompanies the so-called gold standard. People had to use their ingenuity to devise other currencies to keep the economy moving. And not all of it was good.
But the same would be true for privately minted coins, right? The poster I was replying to was asserting that there was no one to verify the quality of privately minted coins.
I will be happy to receive all that “worthless paper” that comes into your hands. You can send it to me C.O.D. I will set back and await your deliveries. thanks in advance.
I get ads for gold coins very frequently from long established businesses.
BTW how did this guy propose to give up his coins could I buy them with US dolla?
Unfortunately for your desire this nation’s economy has more important usages for metals than coinage. The world supply just does not grow at a sufficient rate to keep the economy out of recession. The growth rate of the supply of gold has been less than 1% per yr for the last 500 years (including adding the gold hoard of the Mezo-Americans). This forced the development of credit institutions to provide the means of growth for capitalists.
Gold and silver coins are subject to clipping and washing both of which reduce their weight. Accepting one as being the correct weight means accepting it on faith in any case.
Then when the value of the metal content in a coin becomes higher than its face value another set of problems arise.
The real problem with money is that there is little chance that a democratic society will elect authorities with the wisdom or knowledge sufficient to appoint the appropriate monetary controllers. There were steps taken to insure the independence of the Federal Reserve officials from political pressures. You can decide how effective that is.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.