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Starting A New Currency is “Domestic Terrorism”?
Fox Business: The Power To Prosper ^ | 3-22-11 | John Stossel

Posted on 03/22/2011 10:33:23 AM PDT by RWB Patriot

This weekend, a North Carolina man was convicted of minting and circulating “Liberty Dollars” and “Ron Paul Dollars” that were valued based on the gold and silver they contained. The man, Bernard von NotHaus, now faces up to 25 years in prison and the forfeiture of $7 million worth of gold and silver that was taken by police in a raid.

The U.S. Attorney who prosecuted the case explains:

“It is a violation of federal law … to create private coin or currency systems to compete with the official coinage and currency of the United States.”

But what’s wrong with competition? As long as there’s no fraud or counterfeiting – which NotHaus has not been convicted of – I would think that individuals should be allowed to use whatever currency they want.

(Excerpt) Read more at stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: atlasshrugged; currency; gold; goldstandard; libertydollar; nothaus
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This shows us just how far government will go to hide the facts of economics. Makes you wonder what extremes they'll go to when the dollar is no longer trusted anywhere.
1 posted on 03/22/2011 10:33:28 AM PDT by RWB Patriot
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To: RWB Patriot

I guess the FEDS just don’t like someone who shows the public how valueless their dollar has become.


2 posted on 03/22/2011 10:35:29 AM PDT by puppypusher (The World is going to the dogs.)
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To: puppypusher

Putting ‘USA’ and ‘Dollar’ was not a very smart thing to do ...


3 posted on 03/22/2011 10:36:40 AM PDT by _Jim (Conspiracy theories are the favored tools of the weak-minded.)
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To: RWB Patriot

How are his coins different from Barter? Barter is legal and one would be bartering his coins for goods and services.


4 posted on 03/22/2011 10:37:10 AM PDT by Apple Pan Dowdy (... as American as Apple Pie mmm mmm mmm)
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To: RWB Patriot

Putting ‘USA’ and ‘Dollar’ on the coins was not a very smart thing to do ...


5 posted on 03/22/2011 10:37:25 AM PDT by _Jim (Conspiracy theories are the favored tools of the weak-minded.)
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To: RWB Patriot

Our G.I. obamabucks can not take competition with actual cash value currency.


6 posted on 03/22/2011 10:37:42 AM PDT by screaminsunshine (34 States)
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To: _Jim

Ohhhh, did he print ‘USA’ and ‘Dollar’ on them? I didn’t see that in the article.


7 posted on 03/22/2011 10:39:44 AM PDT by Apple Pan Dowdy (... as American as Apple Pie mmm mmm mmm)
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To: RWB Patriot
No, stamping coins that too-closely resemble actual US minted coins is what is akin to "domestic terrorism".

If the guy had printed gold coins with Snoopy or Bugs Bunny on them, he wouldn't be going to jail. Heck, he could even have called them "currency" or "legal tender". Casinos do it all the time, with no ill-effect. Instead, he printed coins with the "$" sign, and phrase that almost mirrors "In God We Trust" and several other points of similarity. That was his problem.

8 posted on 03/22/2011 10:39:56 AM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: RWB Patriot

No matter how dumb or stupid a guy is he can be assured of finding lots of support here.

Every crook in the world would be happy to pass his own “currency”. What next, some one passing shinplasters will find support among the deluded?

Who verifies the gold or silver content of a coin?

Gullibility is not limited to the Left it appears.


9 posted on 03/22/2011 10:40:12 AM PDT by arrogantsob
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To: _Jim

Yea!It was dumb,But only the Feds can legally counterfeit our money.


10 posted on 03/22/2011 10:41:27 AM PDT by puppypusher (The World is going to the dogs.)
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To: OldDeckHand

Stoessel should review a little US history particularly the era of “Wildcat” banking after Jackson destroyed the Second Bank of the United States.


11 posted on 03/22/2011 10:44:07 AM PDT by arrogantsob
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To: RWB Patriot

I know that someone 100 yrs ago in San Francisco “minted” their own money and people accepted it. I can’t think of the name, though


12 posted on 03/22/2011 10:45:03 AM PDT by therightliveswithus
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To: arrogantsob

The way they seized the stuff makes it pretty clear that the gold and silver was genuine. My question is what happens to it afterwards? I will say I was on his mailing list for awhile out of curosity but if I had purchased any of his gold and silver coins I would have probably taken them to a jeweler to get them tested.


13 posted on 03/22/2011 10:45:15 AM PDT by utherdoul
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy
How are his coins different from Barter?

In economic terms they are totally different. Barter requires a double coincidence of wants. If I'm a chicken owning pickle wanter I need to find a pickle owning chicken wanter in order to make a trade. Because they are valued commonly, coins can serve as a medium of exchange thus solving the double coincidence problem. It's the whole point behind money and arguable anything that can serve as a medium of exchange can, at least in theory, be accused of competing with government money.

14 posted on 03/22/2011 10:50:02 AM PDT by SeeSharp
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To: _Jim

Handing over your country to a private banking cartel in 1910 was not a smart thing to do either. The Framers warned us.


15 posted on 03/22/2011 10:50:05 AM PDT by Frantzie (HD TV - Total Brain-washing now in High Def. 3-D Coming soon)
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy
"Ohhhh, did he print ‘USA’ and ‘Dollar’ on them? I didn’t see that in the article."

You didn't see it because it's not in there. I would expect better work from Stoessel, I guy I ordinarily really like. This particular story is an example of shoddy reporting, at best. At worst, he's being intentionally deceitful.

16 posted on 03/22/2011 10:50:57 AM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: arrogantsob
Who verifies the gold or silver content of a coin?

Who verifies the value of government money?

17 posted on 03/22/2011 10:51:47 AM PDT by SeeSharp
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To: RWB Patriot

The Constitution gives Congress the sole power to coin money and regulate its value. This guy was clearly working outside of constitutional bounds. I just don’t think terrorism was the right charge.


18 posted on 03/22/2011 10:52:03 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: RWB Patriot

Abandoning the dollar does not make any sense. Nor is it that simple.

There are over 200 years of economic development, infrastructure, language and technology that fits into this equation.

Globally, the language of business is English and dollas US. The greatest innovators and inventors are still in the US.

They are not in the mideast as the marso muslim hussein wants us to believe. He is over the top on his muslim outreach and support of the caliphate.


19 posted on 03/22/2011 10:53:35 AM PDT by himno hero
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To: arrogantsob
...“Wildcat” banking'...

The wildcat banking problem took care of itself. Or rather, the market took care of it. Review the history of Suffolk Bank, which served as a private bank note clearing house and effectively cleaned up the New England banking industry.

20 posted on 03/22/2011 10:54:37 AM PDT by SeeSharp
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To: arrogantsob

LOL! As compared to that worthless paper the private banking cartel creates out of thin air.


21 posted on 03/22/2011 10:55:33 AM PDT by Frantzie (HD TV - Total Brain-washing now in High Def. 3-D Coming soon)
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To: SeeSharp
If I'm a chicken owning pickle wanter I need to find a pickle owning chicken wanter in order to make a trade.

Okay - now drink a couple of beers and say that one out loud, quickly, three times... ;-P

22 posted on 03/22/2011 10:56:02 AM PDT by MortMan (What disease did cured ham used to have?)
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To: therightliveswithus

As I recall banks issued their own demand notes in the US not that long ago. As far as I know, private currency is not illegal. It might be considered a security - and require SEC registration.


23 posted on 03/22/2011 10:56:28 AM PDT by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: SeeSharp; arrogantsob
"Who verifies the gold or silver content of a coin?"

The USC (Art I, Sec 8) stipulates that Congress be vested in establishing weights & measures. Congress has written legislation that demands the Executive enforce those regulations.

"Who verifies the value of government money?"

The free market. As it should be.

24 posted on 03/22/2011 10:56:42 AM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: arrogantsob

“Who verifies the gold or silver content of a coin?”

I do, whenever I buy. The Feds’ money is worse. The last I checked, a penny was not copper and a dollar was made of cotton and linen.

I’d rather have the real deal. That’s not to say that this guy was doing something legal.


25 posted on 03/22/2011 10:57:04 AM PDT by cowtowney
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To: therightliveswithus
I know that someone 100 yrs ago in San Francisco “minted” their own money and people accepted it. I can’t think of the name, though

Joshua Abraham Norton (c. 1819 – January 8, 1880). He declared himself Emperor of San Francisco, got a lot of free stuff from the locals.

26 posted on 03/22/2011 10:57:44 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Sarah and the Conservatives will rock your world.)
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy; _Jim
Yes, he did. He even put '$20' on the coin.

He should have called it "20 Zilbutmoriks" which is his own unit of currency measure, and he'd be skippy-free today.

27 posted on 03/22/2011 10:58:17 AM PDT by Lazamataz (The Democrat Party is Communist. The Republican Party is Socialist. The Tea Party is Capitalist.)
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To: antiRepublicrat
Nothing illegal at all. He wasn't saying his stuff was a form of US currency, from what I've seen.

The local currency in Ithaca, N.Y., is called "Ithaca Hours." They are bought with U.S. dollars and can be traded with local shops for products or services. The southern Berkshire region of Massachusetts calls its currency "Berk-Shares" and in Traverse City, Mich., the currency is called "Bay Bucks."

Nothing different than using casino chips.

28 posted on 03/22/2011 10:58:28 AM PDT by Palter (If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. ~ Mark Twain)
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To: RWB Patriot

Our government does not like competition and they do not want citizens able to chart their own destinies. Anything can be done to you as long as the feds attach “domestic terrorist” to the proceedings.


29 posted on 03/22/2011 10:58:55 AM PDT by ronnyquest (Barack H. Obama is the Manchurian Candidate. What are you going to do about it?)
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy

Mine a the metal and create coins that simply state, 1 OZ, .25 Oz, and make sure the purity is accurate. You can make them all day long.

Put pretty pictures of naked women on them, and trade them for food.

Just make sure you don’t call them money.


30 posted on 03/22/2011 10:59:39 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (How long before the Mall becomes Tahifir Sq?)
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To: antiRepublicrat
The Constitution gives Congress the sole power to coin money and regulate its value.

No it doesn't. It grants Congress power to coin money and prevents state legislatures from doing so. It says nothing about private money or foreign money. Private bank notes and foreign specie were almost the only money available for the first seven decades after the constitution was ratified. The South is called "Dixie" because the most trusted money was issued by Citizens Bank in New Orleans - a bank owned by a French family who printed their notes in French. Dix is the French word for ten.

31 posted on 03/22/2011 10:59:39 AM PDT by SeeSharp
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To: therightliveswithus

We have had a number of private mints in the US throughout history but they were able to verify their metal content etc. Several states are considering minting their own coins as we speak. The GA legislature passed a bill that says you can pay any debt in the state of GA with gold or silver coins. I think competition is on the way.


32 posted on 03/22/2011 11:00:06 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: _Jim
OK Freepers, judge for yourselves.

Here is the "tails" side, large scale.

33 posted on 03/22/2011 11:05:01 AM PDT by BwanaNdege ("All it takes for Evil to triumph is for good MEN to do nothing." Edmund Burke)
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To: RWB Patriot

If one sells an old silver dollar coin for more than one dollar in paper money, does that constitute “competing with government money?”


34 posted on 03/22/2011 11:08:38 AM PDT by haroldeveryman
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To: Georgia Girl 2
The GA legislature passed a bill that says you can pay any debt in the state of GA with gold or silver coins. 

Yeah, real odd:

No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

35 posted on 03/22/2011 11:11:09 AM PDT by Palter (If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. ~ Mark Twain)
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To: haroldeveryman
"If one sells an old silver dollar coin for more than one dollar in paper money, does that constitute “competing with government money?”

No. US currency may have an intrinsic as well as numismatic value. Buying or selling something based on numismatic value is not illegal.

36 posted on 03/22/2011 11:13:35 AM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: Palter

I guess they figured it was time to get back to basics.


37 posted on 03/22/2011 11:28:27 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: puppypusher

Yeah, Zero is debauching our currency but they go after a guy who survives, capitalist style. Goes to tell what is going on.


38 posted on 03/22/2011 11:39:45 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrates Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: BwanaNdege

2/5 of an ounce for $20. I know some were saying this was now a good deal with the price of silver. But you wouldn’t break even til silver hit 50.


39 posted on 03/22/2011 11:50:05 AM PDT by sharkhawk (Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall.)
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To: RWB Patriot
You are leaving out many, many details of this case.

Bernard von NotHaus (not his real name) was running a scam.

I quote from his now-defunct website:

Best Offer is to become a Liberty Associate for $250.

Why exchange Federal Reserve Notes (US dollars) on a dollar-for-dollar basis when you can get the Liberty Dollars at a discount and use them at a profit.

Want to earn money, do good and have more fun? Then become a Liberty Associate for $250.

You will immediately receive $100 Liberty Dollars and all your future currency exchanges will be at the special discounted Associate Rate that is posted at the top of the Liberty Dollar home page.

Plus you can earn a $100 Referral for every Associate you sponsor. Sponsor only two people and you are now up $50 and you are on your way to making a significant difference to our country and its money.

All three bonuses are also included with the Best Offer. Click here to become a Liberty Associate.

It's a classic combination of a Ponzi scheme and a multilevel marketing scam.

It's also unconstitutional.

Congress, and not this unelected clown, has the authority to coin money.

40 posted on 03/22/2011 11:52:12 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: RWB Patriot
I wonder who is next on the Fed's list?

RUN MICKY RUN!

41 posted on 03/22/2011 11:55:29 AM PDT by 11th Commandment (http://www.thirty-thousand.org/)
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To: RWB Patriot
meanwhile, detroit does the same and it's celebrated.

3 Cheers for Detroit's Local Currency

i guess the only difference is that the detroit 'money' is really just worthless coupons whereas this guy was issuing coins with intrinsic value (ie: real money)

42 posted on 03/22/2011 11:55:36 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: arrogantsob

“Who verifies the gold or silver content of a coin?”

Who verifies the the value of a dollar bill? Certainly not the Fed.


43 posted on 03/22/2011 12:26:16 PM PDT by DaxtonBrown (HARRY: Money Mob & Influence (See my Expose on Reid on amazon.com written by me!))
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To: SeeSharp

Every transaction verifies the value of “government money”.

Now a bill or coin could be a counterfeit but that is a different issue.


44 posted on 03/22/2011 12:56:38 PM PDT by arrogantsob
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To: SeeSharp

That market correction took a long time and only occurred after years of fraud and large losses by those defrauded by these “banks”. And New England was not the center of the problem with the wildcats. They were most prevalent where there was an undeveloped banking system such as the frontier areas. I believed that is why they were called “wildcats” as in being located where wildcats were common.

The whole episode was another example of an insufficient money supply which always accompanies the so-called gold standard. People had to use their ingenuity to devise other currencies to keep the economy moving. And not all of it was good.


45 posted on 03/22/2011 1:03:30 PM PDT by arrogantsob
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To: arrogantsob
Every transaction verifies the value of “government money”.

But the same would be true for privately minted coins, right? The poster I was replying to was asserting that there was no one to verify the quality of privately minted coins.

46 posted on 03/22/2011 1:03:33 PM PDT by SeeSharp
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To: Frantzie

I will be happy to receive all that “worthless paper” that comes into your hands. You can send it to me C.O.D. I will set back and await your deliveries. thanks in advance.


47 posted on 03/22/2011 1:05:26 PM PDT by arrogantsob
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To: MortMan

LoL


48 posted on 03/22/2011 1:06:19 PM PDT by arrogantsob
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To: Vermont Lt

Bingo

I get ads for gold coins very frequently from long established businesses.

BTW how did this guy propose to give up his coins could I buy them with US dolla?


49 posted on 03/22/2011 1:09:49 PM PDT by arrogantsob
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To: cowtowney

Unfortunately for your desire this nation’s economy has more important usages for metals than coinage. The world supply just does not grow at a sufficient rate to keep the economy out of recession. The growth rate of the supply of gold has been less than 1% per yr for the last 500 years (including adding the gold hoard of the Mezo-Americans). This forced the development of credit institutions to provide the means of growth for capitalists.

Gold and silver coins are subject to clipping and washing both of which reduce their weight. Accepting one as being the correct weight means accepting it on faith in any case.
Then when the value of the metal content in a coin becomes higher than its face value another set of problems arise.

The real problem with money is that there is little chance that a democratic society will elect authorities with the wisdom or knowledge sufficient to appoint the appropriate monetary controllers. There were steps taken to insure the independence of the Federal Reserve officials from political pressures. You can decide how effective that is.


50 posted on 03/22/2011 1:21:33 PM PDT by arrogantsob
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