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15,000-year-old campsite in Texas challenges conventional story of American settlement
I09 ^ | 3-24-2011 | Annalee Newitz

Posted on 03/25/2011 3:49:13 PM PDT by Renfield

15,000 years ago, humans camped in a lush Texas valley, leaving thousands of artifacts behind, from tools to face paint. This could be definitive proof that ancient people arrived in America by boat, not by walking the Bering Strait.

Anthropologist Michael Waters and colleagues announced their findings today, detailing the almost 16,000 artifacts they found near Buttermilk Creek, outside the Austin area. Their discovery will change everything you thought you knew about how people arrived in the Americas.

Meet the Buttermilk Creek people

What's remarkable is that this places human occupation of America over 2,000 years earlier than previously believed. And apparently, these early settlers loved the Buttermilk Creek area - there is evidence that it's been a popular campsite for thousands of years. As Waters put it yesterday at a press conference:.....

(Excerpt) Read more at io9.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science
KEYWORDS: acrossatlanticice; brucebradley; catastrophism; clovis; dennisstanford; godsgravesglyphs; preclovis; solutreans; texas; toolmaking; tools; tooltime

1 posted on 03/25/2011 3:49:20 PM PDT by Renfield
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To: SunkenCiv; blam

Pre-Clovis ping.


2 posted on 03/25/2011 3:50:13 PM PDT by Renfield (Turning apples into venison since 1999!)
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To: Renfield
Calling ICE! Calling ICE!

Once agqin the illegal alien invasion is proven!


3 posted on 03/25/2011 3:56:46 PM PDT by Young Werther ("Quae cum ita sunt" Since these things are so!)
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To: Renfield

all remains beyond 12-15 thousand years ago were European. White man was not invaders , just returning home.


4 posted on 03/25/2011 3:57:19 PM PDT by omegadawn (qualified)
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To: Renfield
This could be definitive proof that ancient people arrived in America by boat, not by walking the Bering Strait.

Or maybe it proves they just kept walking till they made it to Texas. ("We're finally here! Let's have a barbecue! Woohoo!")
5 posted on 03/25/2011 4:02:10 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: Renfield
the campers were probably nomadic, returning to Buttermilk Creek on a seasonal basis.
The first snow-birds! Wonder if they ate dinner at 4:30?

This could be definitive proof that ancient people arrived in America by boat, not by walking the Bering Strait.
Why does this preclude walkers? Couldn't there be both?
6 posted on 03/25/2011 4:03:19 PM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Renfield

7 posted on 03/25/2011 4:11:57 PM PDT by Daffynition
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To: Renfield

I
CAN’T
STAND
IT
!


8 posted on 03/25/2011 4:17:19 PM PDT by MestaMachine (Note: I do NOT capitalize anything I don't respect...like obama and/or islam...but I repeat myself.)
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To: Renfield

They picked a beautiful part of the world.


9 posted on 03/25/2011 4:19:56 PM PDT by trumandogz
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To: oh8eleven; blam

I cannot understand for the life of me WHY these nitwits seem to think that this entire landmass was totally empty and that there could not possibly have been a truly indigenous population.


10 posted on 03/25/2011 4:21:20 PM PDT by MestaMachine (Note: I do NOT capitalize anything I don't respect...like obama and/or islam...but I repeat myself.)
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To: Renfield

DNA testing of Tierra del Fuego human remains demonstrate that they are related to Australian aborigines. More and more of these remains are being discovered scattered throughout South America.

But that isn’t all.

There was a compelling cosmic catastrophe 13,000 years ago, an event hugely important historically for North America.

The book detailing this cosmic event is “The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes” by Richard Firestone, Allen West, and Simon Warwick-Smith. (Firestone is a nuclear physicist; West was the owner of an international scientific consulting business; Warwick-Smith is a geologist).

Don’t allow the tacky illustration on the cover to deter you from reading this book (why a Hellenistic sculpture is depicted is puzzling.) This book is scientific in its thorough address of heavenly and earthly events.

According to these authors humans lived in North and South America for years before this event caused mass extinctions and a collapse of the ice sheet in North America.


11 posted on 03/25/2011 4:21:48 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT!)
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To: MestaMachine
I cannot understand for the life of me WHY these nitwits seem to think that this entire landmass was totally empty and that there could not possibly have been a truly indigenous population.

Because that would mean two species of humans evolved separately on opposite sides of the earth.

12 posted on 03/25/2011 4:30:32 PM PDT by keat
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To: MestaMachine
I cannot understand for the life of me WHY these nitwits ...
Welllllll, you were told: I guess you ain't buying it. Neither am I.

What I also don't understand is how they can claim, "15,000 years ago, humans camped in a lush Texas valley ... this places human occupation of America over 2,000 years earlier than previously believed."
With a simple search I can find this 2004 story - "New Evidence Puts Man In North America 50,000 Years Ago."
13 posted on 03/25/2011 4:32:46 PM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: keat

So why, if they need to insist that only one race rose up, couldn’t it have risen here and migrated there? Maybe they done writ history bass ackwards. Adama. Red. Clay. Gee. Redmen. Cain’t have that, now, can we? Mus’ be black or you cain’t exist?
Gee fellas. Ain’t that racist?


14 posted on 03/25/2011 4:45:15 PM PDT by MestaMachine (Note: I do NOT capitalize anything I don't respect...like obama and/or islam...but I repeat myself.)
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To: oh8eleven

There are Lenape artifacts even older than that, but they refuse to allow themselves to wrap their heads around the fact. As far as I am concerned, trying to make heads or tails out of the “scientific community’s” speculation, conjecture, and insanity, is like banging your head against a stone wall.


15 posted on 03/25/2011 4:52:36 PM PDT by MestaMachine (Note: I do NOT capitalize anything I don't respect...like obama and/or islam...but I repeat myself.)
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To: MestaMachine

It’s all about the grant money.


16 posted on 03/25/2011 4:54:17 PM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Renfield

Must be the Nephites! /s


17 posted on 03/25/2011 5:11:44 PM PDT by Boogieman (")
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To: LearsFool

“Or maybe it proves they just kept walking till they made it to Texas.”

Heheh, I think they meant that scientists date the ice bridge to after the time they date these remains.


18 posted on 03/25/2011 5:13:42 PM PDT by Boogieman (")
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To: LearsFool

19 posted on 03/25/2011 5:15:13 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open ( <o> ---)
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To: Renfield

20 posted on 03/25/2011 5:26:27 PM PDT by AndrewB (FUBO)
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To: MestaMachine

“I cannot understand for the life of me WHY these nitwits seem to think that this entire landmass was totally empty and that there could not possibly have been a truly indigenous population.”

Because they believe in evolution, which requires the common descent of all men from one origin. So, everywhere else, except where that origin took place, wouldn’t have any “truly indigenous” people, according to that theory.


21 posted on 03/25/2011 5:26:46 PM PDT by Boogieman (")
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To: Renfield

It also shoots down one of the prevailing theories of large mammal extiction.


22 posted on 03/25/2011 5:29:51 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: MestaMachine

“Adama. Red. Clay. Gee. Redmen.”

The Identity guys try to claim that means that Adam was a white man, since you can see red blood (blushing) through the translucent white skin. So, that argument can go both ways. Or maybe Adam just had a sunburn from not wearing any clothes in the Garden :)


23 posted on 03/25/2011 5:30:15 PM PDT by Boogieman (")
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To: Renfield; Fractal Trader; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

· GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach ·
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Thanks Renfield! And thanks Fractal Trader for the non-quotable Bloomberg link, glad Renfield's on the job, I didn't have to dig up (so to speak) an alternate source.

The first X-Files movie starts out with Neandertal in Texas, I get a charge out of that, maybe I'll watch that again, it's been years. :')

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
 

· History topic · history keyword · archaeology keyword · paleontology keyword ·
· Science topic · science keyword · Books/Literature topic · pages keyword ·


24 posted on 03/25/2011 5:35:10 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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Michael Waters texas preclovis
Google

25 posted on 03/25/2011 5:37:12 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: Renfield

Arrowhead hunting in certain parts of Texas is fantastic!


26 posted on 03/25/2011 5:38:44 PM PDT by Ditter
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Thanks oh8eleven.

al goodyear site:freerepublic.com
Google
preclovis site:freerepublic.com
Google

27 posted on 03/25/2011 5:39:58 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: Renfield

The “Bering Strait” thing never made much sense to me... To say that man followed the Mammoth across the ice sheet is alright, but what exactly were the Mammoths eating for a thousand mile trek over ice? It is far more palatable to assume man followed the edge of the ice (or island hopping) in boats, fishing and hunting seals to arrive by the Bering Sea... And if boats, there is no longer a need to assume a northern passage at all.


28 posted on 03/25/2011 5:47:47 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit.)
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To: Boogieman

So do all kittens grow up to be tigers? I mean WHY does even ThaT theory make it necessary that we all had the same mama? I mean, where did all these kitties and doggies come from? And the nocems? Cockroaches? How many types of dinosaurs were there? Did they all crack out of the same egg? There is no logic to this. None.
They know that there were more than one type of “man” roaming around this big ol’ place, and they wouldn’t even admit that for the longest time because it threw their whole cockamamy “link” theory to the four winds. Now that there is evidence that these two “comingled” they can’t just dismiss the possibility that if there were two, there were others. The small bones found at Carmel, for instance. A whole race they had no knowledge of.
WHY isn’t it possible that the Creation of HUMANS happened everywhere on this planet? Why do they diminish Creation by inserting idiocy into what they call science when they have been refuted time after time after time?


29 posted on 03/25/2011 5:49:13 PM PDT by MestaMachine (Note: I do NOT capitalize anything I don't respect...like obama and/or islam...but I repeat myself.)
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To: SunkenCiv

www.sitchin.com explains a lot of it. There is an answer out there and we are unraveling the puzzle day by day.


30 posted on 03/25/2011 5:51:01 PM PDT by juma (What i s the real answer ? Does anyone Know ?)
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To: oh8eleven
It’s all about the grant money.

Bingo! My thoughts exactly....

31 posted on 03/25/2011 6:03:07 PM PDT by Sleeping Freeper
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To: roamer_1

Bering always seemed suspect to me. The cultures get more sophisticated the further away you are from the straits.

I’d suspect landings further south with the northern primitives as refugees from failed societies.


32 posted on 03/25/2011 6:17:59 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Boogieman
The big reason you don't find many dates before Clovis is there really weren't very many people in the Americas ~ maybe a dozen or two.

Then about 17,000 years ago world climate changed. This presaged the meltdown that started about 14,000 years ago ~ but mostly it was just a change in ocean currents and major winds that allowed for a repeatable delineation of Winter Sea Ice in the North Atlantic on a seasonal basis.

What that did is create a semi-permanent population of fish and seals along a nearly stable ice mass that spread between Spain and North America. At that point people who delighted in seal hunting could make their way across the Atlantic in winter.

So, did they?

The situation in the Northwest was different. There the idea was that the ocean level dropped during the Ice Age so people had a full 100,000 years available to just walk to the Americas. Now why they should do that walking only at the END of the major glaciation, right when the ocean was rising and flooding Beringia is a good question.

Boats solve the problem. People could work their way around the litoral of the Pacific, and wouldn't need to cross through Beringia.

At the same time recent artchaeology suggests populations stopped in Alaska and the Aleutians for HUNDREDS OF YEARS and some of them actually returned to Asia ~ possibly with Japonica Rice!

I suspect humans simply could not for long penetrate inland into North America as long as the dire wolf and sabre toothed tiger were around. They were TOP TOP predators and given little provocation they would have attacked and eaten any humans.

As the Ice Age ended and the great herds moved further North for new grass ~ away from the advancing forests in the South ~ the tigers and wolves would have gone with them making it possible for humans to move in. It's possible people had been attempting to settle in North America for tens of thousands of years but were simply successfully exterminated by the predators. We should expect to find some of their remains every now and then.

33 posted on 03/25/2011 6:20:43 PM PDT by muawiyah (Make America Safe For Amercans)
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To: Renfield

“Native Americans” are undoubtably scrambling to re-bury all the evidence that in ever greater amounts shows the first Americans were from Europe and China.


34 posted on 03/25/2011 6:26:11 PM PDT by pabianice
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To: MestaMachine

Hey, I’m at least halfway with ya, man, insofar as I think the evolutionists are more concerned with trying to fit the evidence to their theory rather than finding the truth.

Now, I think there is some logic to common descent, but only within species, or type, whatever you want to call it (since scientists have made a complete mockery of taxonomy). For example, you ask about cats and dogs. Well, for domesticated dogs and cats, we know where all the varieties came from, and it’s just do to selective breeding creating new stable breeds from the pre-existing genepool. We can also conclude common descent for all canines and felines, since they can generally crossbreed and create hybrids. I think most of the “species” that scientists identify are nothing more than breeds, or what might properly be called subspecies, which arose through the same mechanism, but which occurred due to nature rather than husbandry. However, by classifying as many groups of creatures as separate “species” rather than just breeds, the evolutionist attempt to fit the data to their expected pattern of extensive, fluid speciation.

When it comes to humans, the fact that we can all breed with each other, and with very few negative results from those crossings, shows that not only are we one proper species, but also that the breeds of humans (racial/ethnic groups) are more compatible, and so logically more uniform in genetics, than many groups of animals. For example, you won’t produce sterile offspring from hybridizing any human breeds together, while this happens frequently with more divergent breeds of animals.

So, in my opinion, humans must have a common origin, though it can’t have happened the way that evolutionists speculate. The simple mechanics of sexual reproduction require that there must have been at least two original humans from which we derive common descent. That would be statistically impossible under the proposed mechanism of evolution, if the actual nature of species is taken into account.


35 posted on 03/25/2011 7:32:10 PM PDT by Boogieman (")
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To: 1010RD

“The cultures get more sophisticated the further away you are from the straits.”

Well, this could be explained, if, primitive tribes accumulated cultural adaptations as they progressed south through a variety of obstacles and challenges. The tribes that were closer to the point of origin would then have had to adapt and evolve less than those who travelled further. Of course, that’s total speculation, but it shows how easy it is to make a hypothesis to fit the conclusion you wish to reach.


36 posted on 03/25/2011 7:35:17 PM PDT by Boogieman (")
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To: muawiyah

“I suspect humans simply could not for long penetrate inland into North America as long as the dire wolf and sabre toothed tiger were around. They were TOP TOP predators and given little provocation they would have attacked and eaten any humans.”

What weighs against that is, when humans encounter a competitive or threatening predator species, the predator species pretty much always loses that encounter. We see it in the Americas, Europe, Australia, and continuing in the modern day in places like Africa and Asia. I guess if the groups of humans were small and nomadic, without great pressure to find a place to settle or secure new food sources, then they might just rather avoid that kind of confrontation. Basically, it might, as you say have been easier for them to turn around and go back, rather than press forward. In Europe, there were other humans pushing them on, who are of course more dangerous than the most daunting animal predators, and in Australia, they’d have to fight their way back across the the ocean and the previously settled archipelago.

So, maybe you are right, that people came and left or did not penetrate far, until later when more tribes migrating to the far east blocked their return and pushed them forward.


37 posted on 03/25/2011 8:00:38 PM PDT by Boogieman (")
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To: SatinDoll
....mormons?








and yes...I am joking.
38 posted on 03/25/2011 8:26:39 PM PDT by Tainan (Cogito Ergo Conservitus.)
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To: muawiyah

Funny, we used to play around Buttermilk creek as kids, making campfires and digging forts in the mud some 40 years ago and we never found any of these artifacts, but we left lots of them trying to make our own rock tools like the Flintstones. ;^)


39 posted on 03/25/2011 8:30:24 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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40 posted on 03/25/2011 8:55:18 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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To: Renfield; SunkenCiv

The Aggies have found what is likely to be a benchmark discovery in the Tea Sips’ back yard. This should make the Tea Sips crazy.


41 posted on 03/25/2011 11:06:49 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake (You have only two choices: SUBMIT or RESIST with everything you've got!!!)
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To: MestaMachine

because if we accept the existence of more than one indigenous population, the ‘native’ American Indian claims go right out the window along with their reservations, as do the claimers to Atzalan. And we can’t have that, can we?


42 posted on 03/26/2011 4:13:10 AM PDT by blueplum
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To: gleeaikin

Someone added the catastrophism keyword, I guess I can see why.

The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes: Flood, Fire, and Famine in the History of Civilization The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes:
Flood, Fire, and Famine
in the History of Civilization

by Richard Firestone,
Allen West, and
Simon Warwick-Smith


43 posted on 03/26/2011 6:35:37 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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