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Jimmer grows dimmer
ESPN ^ | March 25, 2011 | Rick Reilly

Posted on 03/27/2011 2:29:46 PM PDT by Colofornian

...So that's the end of Jimmermania. Saw it for myself. Caught the closing act. Not impressed.

SNIP

You can take off those "Romney-Fredette in 2012" T-shirts now.

Except for a stretch...Fredette was brutal.

Yes, he scored 32 points, but...took 29 shots...He seemed to be wearing a blindfold from the 3-point arc -- 3-for-15...committed six turnovers and wandered aimlessly through the lane on defense like Moses in the desert. I've seen dead people play better defense. At least they occasionally trip people.

SNIP

"He's a little Maravich," a guy in a BYU shirt told me.

No! No, he isn't! He's not within a mile of Mardi Gras floats of Maravich. Maravich could get his shot off from the bottom of a swimming pool. He could get 40 in handcuffs. He averaged 44 points a game in college (to Fredette's 28 this season) and that's without the 3-point shot. With it, studies of his game film have shown, he would have averaged over 55.

SNIP

...until he shows more interest in defense than a blind man has in rainbows, he's going to spend most of his NBA life sitting on padded folding chairs.

Florida missed a trey with 24 seconds to go and Fredette's man, Erving Walker...beat him to the long rebound. It wasn't hard. Fredette was nowhere to be found. I'm not even sure Fredette knew who his man was the entire night. Florida wound up with a reset and the last shot.

SNIP

Note to Jimmer: To get the ball, one must occasionally check one's man and/or box said man out. One did neither.

"...[his defense] has gotten progressively worse over the year," says Fredette's own teammate, Nick Martineau. "From the start, he's never really been accountable to it, but it's just gotten looser as the year's gone on..."

(Excerpt) Read more at sports.espn.go.com ...


TOPICS: Sports
KEYWORDS: byu; jimmerfredette; lds; mormon

1 posted on 03/27/2011 2:29:47 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Sounds like the writer is on drugs.


2 posted on 03/27/2011 2:33:22 PM PDT by Krodg
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To: Colofornian

Just for people’s information, Rick Reilly is a liberal airhead. I don’t read him much, but he once wrote an article about praising his friend’s choice to get a sex change.


3 posted on 03/27/2011 2:33:24 PM PDT by WPaCon (Obama: pansy progressive, mad Mohammedan, or totalitarian tyrant? Or all three?)
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To: Colofornian

Jimmer didn’t have a great game, but in fairness, he was triple teamed whenever he got within 30 feet of the basket. And his teammates didn’t do a whole lot to pick up the slack.


4 posted on 03/27/2011 2:38:02 PM PDT by balch3
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To: Colofornian

Fredette is a legitimate scorer, but he plays no defense, which will expose him. Guys who play no defense generally don’t accomplish anything in the N.B.A.


5 posted on 03/27/2011 2:41:19 PM PDT by jpl (Run Christie, run.)
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To: Colofornian
Can't have a white guy getting accolades in basketball.

Racist Reilly

6 posted on 03/27/2011 2:43:15 PM PDT by Post5203 (Frack baby frack!)
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To: Colofornian
Oh and the same goes for espn.

Maybe they could do a special on how f'ed up 0bammy's pool is...haha..

7 posted on 03/27/2011 2:45:05 PM PDT by Post5203 (Frack baby frack!)
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To: jpl

He plays no defense because he is their offense. They cannot afford to get him in foul trouble. I thought the game went into overtime against Florida no less. It sounded like they got drubbed from the article posted.


8 posted on 03/27/2011 2:45:35 PM PDT by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: Colofornian

He’ll be the next Adam Morrison in the NBA.


9 posted on 03/27/2011 2:50:14 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Colofornian

it was all a conspiracy by the Mormon church s/


10 posted on 03/27/2011 2:57:44 PM PDT by skyman
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To: balch3
...in fairness, he was triple teamed whenever he got within 30 feet of the basket

(IOW, he didn't know how to pass...something guards are especially s'posed to specialize in)

11 posted on 03/27/2011 3:18:18 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Goreknowshowtocheat
It sounded like they got drubbed from the article posted.

(Hmmm...I thought a 9-point loss bordered more on a drubbing)

In baseball, if you lose 12-8 in 10 innings, not exactly a shave.

12 posted on 03/27/2011 3:20:19 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

It went to overtime. Did you even read the article? Or did you post it only because you thought it put a Mormon (Jimmer) in a bad light?


13 posted on 03/27/2011 3:29:21 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Colofornian
When I was in high school, my next door neighbor had an extra ticket and asked me if I wanted to watch a college basketball game with him (I mowed his lawn). I saw Maravich play as a junior. I think he scored 48 that night, with that floppy hair and those saggy socks.

He passed behind his back and between his legs without looking at the man he was passing to and I'm not certain he missed a shot all night.

He'd steal the ball, dribble behind his own back, and flip a bounce pass between his legs to the trailing man without looking.

He did it with such joy and ease and there didn't seem to be any cockiness to what he was doing.

There was never a Maravich before Maravich and I've never seen once since him.

A little Maravich? Don't make me laugh.

14 posted on 03/27/2011 5:05:58 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: Scoutmaster

Maravich was the greatest ever, too bad he never had any talent around him in the NBA.


15 posted on 03/27/2011 5:07:42 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Scoutmaster

And did I mention he drained shots, nothing but net, from 10’-15’ behind what’s now the three-point line? I’m getting an adrenaline rush just thinking about that night. Still the career scoring leader in the NCAA - and he played in the era when freshmen weren’t allowed to play varsity. He did it in three years.


16 posted on 03/27/2011 5:09:55 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: Scoutmaster

And he did it all with a missing left coronary artery, the doctors who performed the autopsy said it was a miracle he even made it to 40, sad.


17 posted on 03/27/2011 5:10:03 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dirtboy; Colofornian
“did you post it only because you thought it put a Mormon (Jimmer) in a bad light?”

Ding ding ding! We have a winner. Check out his posting history. This isn't even his first post on the BYU loss.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2694292/posts

18 posted on 03/27/2011 5:13:47 PM PDT by Ripliancum (Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you. -Eph. 4:31)
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To: Colofornian

Jimmer is college basketball’s Tim Tebow. And they’re doing the same thing to him as they did to Tebow.


19 posted on 03/27/2011 5:14:06 PM PDT by rintense (The GOP elite & friends can pound sand.)
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To: dfwgator

If the 3-pt line woud have been in effect for Maravich and if he could have played as a freshman, his college scoring records would have been out of this universe even more.


20 posted on 03/27/2011 5:19:16 PM PDT by newfreep (Palin/West 2012 - Bolton: Secy of State)
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To: rintense

How many championships did Jimmer win?


21 posted on 03/27/2011 5:21:58 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: newfreep

On his wiki page, they have LSU coach Dale Brown saying that he charted Pete’s games, and that he would have averaged 57 ppg with the 3. The estimate shows Pete making 13 3’s per game.


22 posted on 03/27/2011 5:27:27 PM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Colofornian

Wow, why the hate? It sounds racist to me.


23 posted on 03/27/2011 5:27:55 PM PDT by JusPasenThru (HEY UNION MEMBER: INVEST IN YOUR OWN DAMN INFRASTRUCTURE FOR A CHANGE!)
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To: dfwgator

It isn’t about championships. It’s about a young, white man of extremely high character (aka a Christian) being torn down because you can’t be like that in a sport where character and faith not longer mean anything.


24 posted on 03/27/2011 5:38:23 PM PDT by rintense (The GOP elite & friends can pound sand.)
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To: dfwgator

It isn’t about championships. It’s about a young, white man of extremely high character (aka a Christian) being torn down because you can’t be like that in a sport where character and faith not longer mean anything.


25 posted on 03/27/2011 5:42:10 PM PDT by rintense (The GOP elite & friends can pound sand.)
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To: rintense
Countdown to when the usual suspects show up and debate you about Jimmer being a Christian.

3...2...1...

26 posted on 03/27/2011 5:49:42 PM PDT by Ripliancum (Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you. -Eph. 4:31)
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To: Ripliancum

IBPD...


27 posted on 03/27/2011 5:52:17 PM PDT by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: Ripliancum
(Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you. -Eph. 4:31)

BTW...how many quotes would you like me to list from mormonism's founder, and it's many "prophets" that totally, and completely are in opposition of your tag line?

28 posted on 03/27/2011 5:56:13 PM PDT by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: Colofornian

For the record, Maravich played little or no defense in college. He was an outstanding ballplayer, but he scored forty points a game because he took forty shots a game. His dad was the coach which is often the case of players who score that many points. He never shot better than 45% from the field in college or the pros. Maravich was taller and faster than Fredette and obviously a better passer. But Fredette has YMCA hops? Fredette has a 36 inch vertical leap. Not too many white kids and not a lot of black kids can’t jump that high. He’s got better range than Maravich, heck he’s got better range than anybody I’ve ever seen. He also has excellent moves and can pass the ball when he has to. He’ll be an excellent player coming off the bench to put some O into the game.


29 posted on 03/27/2011 7:22:57 PM PDT by driftless2 (For long-term happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: dfwgator

How many did Maravich win? Or Jerry West? Or Oscar Robertson? or ...you get picture.


30 posted on 03/27/2011 7:24:42 PM PDT by driftless2 (For long-term happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: dfwgator
He’ll be the next Adam Morrison in the NBA.

Exactly.

31 posted on 03/27/2011 8:05:37 PM PDT by gura (If Allah is so great, why does he need fat sexually confused fanboys to do his dirty work? -iowahawk)
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To: driftless2

that’s “CAN jump that high.”


32 posted on 03/27/2011 8:18:46 PM PDT by driftless2 (For long-term happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: driftless2
Many great wonderful hall of fame players in all team sports have not won Championships....

And that's a fact.........

33 posted on 03/27/2011 8:23:01 PM PDT by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: dfwgator
I saw him play this one last game, and even though his shooting was off for this game, he was really good. It went to overtime, and the second best player on his team had been suspended before the tournament.

Not too shabby.

34 posted on 03/27/2011 8:26:10 PM PDT by Lakeshark (Thank a member of the US armed forces for their sacrifice)
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To: Raider Sam

Wow, I never knew the 57-pt/game stat but not surprised - always thought it would be in high 40’s. He was one-of-a-kind.


35 posted on 03/28/2011 3:30:33 AM PDT by newfreep (Palin/West 2012 - Bolton: Secy of State)
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To: driftless2
For the record, Maravich played little or no defense in college. He was an outstanding ballplayer, but he scored forty points a game because he took forty shots a game. His dad was the coach which is often the case of players who score that many points. He never shot better than 45% from the field in college or the pros. Maravich was taller and faster than Fredette and obviously a better passer. But Fredette has YMCA hops? Fredette has a 36 inch vertical leap. Not too many white kids and not a lot of black kids can’t jump that high. He’s got better range than Maravich, heck he’s got better range than anybody I’ve ever seen.

And Fredette was hitting 48% (waaaaay above Maravich's 44-45%) while averaging 16 points per game?

Maravich also averaged more assists per game and doubled Fredette's rebounds per game.

And I don't know how old you are, but anything past the half-court line was Maravich's range. Honestly, find me anyone who coaches or writes colleges sports for a living who watched both Maravich and Fredette play who thinks Fredette belongs in the same gym.

Basically, then, Fredette's FG average is around 47%, Maravich's around 45%. Maravich was taller, faster, and a better passer, had more assists per game (despite scoring all of those extra points), and more more rebounds per game (despite Fredette's 'YMCA hops"), is the all-time NCAA scoring leader, despite playing only three years, was the NBA rookie of the year, scoring over 22 PPG, played for the Hawks and the Jazz (with no supporting cast); retired after a knee injury and is one of the youngest players ever elected into the NBA Hall of Fame, and was named of the 50 Greatest NBA Players of All Time. Maravich was probably the best ball handler the HBA ever saw.

But Fredette has that 36-inch leap and better range than anyone you've ever seen. And he has that potential thing going for him.

So yeah, I guess that makes them equal, or maybe Fredette even has the edge.

36 posted on 03/28/2011 4:01:50 AM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: Raider Sam; newfreep; dfwgator
Checking the stats . . . Maravich did okay in the NBA during an injury-shortened ten-year career. A 68-point game. Five 50+-point games. 35 games with 40+ points.

A little Pistol Pete:

68, Shot by Shot - against Walt Frazier, Earl Monroe and Spencer Haywood

Maravich LSU Mix - Check 2:18, 2:24, 2:29, 2:33

37 posted on 03/28/2011 4:46:04 AM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: Scoutmaster
I'm 61 and was a big fan of Maravich. I'm not saying Fredette wil be as good, I'm just saying he has offensive capabilities that can make him valuable in the NBA. All the people criticizing Fredette are pointing out his weaknesses and omitting his strengths. You forget that a lot of people said the same thing about Maravich when he went into the NBA. They said he played little defense in college (they were right) and that he would have a tough time fitting in due to his ballhogging style and wild shots he grew accustomed to in college (he did). But Pete's strengths were such he adjusted, his overall talent eventually shone, and he became a star.

Fredette is not just a great outside shooter, he has excellent moves, he can get to the basket, and he can find the open man. Name someone else who has his range. I've never seen anyone hit shots that far out with such facility.

P.S.If someone like Steve Nash, who is about as slow as any good player I've ever seen, can become a star in the NBA, then so can Fredette. Fredette is bigger, stronger, faster, jumps higher, shoots better, and has a quicker release than Nash.

38 posted on 03/28/2011 6:17:55 AM PDT by driftless2 (For long-term happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: driftless2
It's interesting that the analysis of Maravich's shots from his three years in college purported shows that if the three-point line had existed, he would have averaged 57 points per game.

However, there's a video clip of Bill Walton on ESPN after Maravich's death who points out that, with a three-point line, Maravich would have had the option to pull up and shoot a three, or to drop back behind the three-point line. Walton says he believes that with a three-point line, Maravich would have averaged 70 points a game at LSU.

Also, I understand that Maravich was the coach's son and had a green light to shoot. But there are plenty of coach's sons. Take the period from ten years before Maravich to the present. A lot of coach's sons weren't able to make the team. A lot of those who made the team weren't able to start. In division I, there have probably been 100-200 or more who have started if you count the period since Maravich played. None of them have Maravich's scoring average - and I frankly don't think any of them would have Maravich's scoring average had they been given a green light to shoot.

39 posted on 03/28/2011 7:50:39 AM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: Colofornian

Excuse me. They went into overtime with Florida..


40 posted on 03/28/2011 8:40:57 AM PDT by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: Scoutmaster

Hey, don’t get me wrong. I’ve stated I was a big fan of Pete, and he had fabulous talents. But he shouldn’t have been taking forty shots a game. He was a great passer and could have setting up the other players. He still could have averaged around thirty points a game, but his assist totals would have made everyone else a better player. In my own opinion, with another coach other than his father, Pete would have been a better player and LSU a better team. Having his coach for a father hurt Pete, and made it tougher for him to fit in the pros.


41 posted on 03/28/2011 12:34:10 PM PDT by driftless2 (For long-term happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: Goreknowshowtocheat; dirtboy
Excuse me. They went into overtime with Florida..

Excuse me. As I said, a 12-8 baseball game in 10 innings is not exactly a shave.

It's not like you both can just take a pen & cancel out the extra period just 'cause you didn't like the results.

Some teams hang with the other for 35 minutes...might be tied after 35 minutes. But then they get a drubbing the last 5 minutes. So what? Are you going to negate the last 5 minutes just because you only want to favorably present the first 35 minutes?

That's what both of you have done on this thread. You want to emphasize the first 40 minutes at the expense of noting the last 5 -- when BYU got drubbed. Go ahead, if you wish & deny the drubbing took place those last 5 minutes.

42 posted on 03/28/2011 1:26:20 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: rintense; dfwgator; Ripliancum
It’s about a young, white man of extremely high character (aka a Christian) being torn down...

(Hmm...and here I thought Christians only believed in a single god...Mormons embrace a head god who appointed a man-god for this world...his wife (or wives)...a council of gods that the head god's a part of...Jesus and the Holy Ghost as two more separate gods...and then temple Mormons apparently become gods...)

Maybe some people need a less on where religions & mathematics intersects.

43 posted on 03/28/2011 1:30:22 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

SIGH... you’re missing the point. To the MSM, he’s a Christian and therefore worthy of being torn apart.


44 posted on 03/28/2011 1:33:10 PM PDT by rintense (The GOP elite & friends can pound sand.)
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To: rintense
To the MSM, he’s a Christian and therefore worthy of being torn apart.

(Oh, so journalists don't know about magic underwear...how our bodies are supposedly alien spirits from the planet Kolob...& how Lds are gods-wannabes...that's all top secret stuff from sports writers who think Lds are "Christian"...Oh, I get it)

(You know you just might read what some sportswriters were writing about Lds...say 1970s...might actually improve your take on this lot...when a lot of the Christian community was doin' the wink-wink-nod-nod silence about Mormons in the 1970s, some sportswriters were actually addressing Mormonism's racism that kept blacks from becoming priests & getting access to their temple...)

45 posted on 03/28/2011 2:03:53 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: driftless2
I've always attributed Maravich's 'lack of success in the NBA' (if you can say that about a player who was voted one of the Top 50 NBA players of all time) in the NBA to the fact that that he was surrounded by mediocre talent at best on the Hawk and Jazz teams for which he played virtually his entire 10-year NBA career.

What amazes me about his 68-point game is that I believe he had six assists. If there had been a three-point line, it's estimated he would have scored 75 - and it's commonly thought that the two offensive fouls against him where baskets were denied were horrendous calls. We're talking a 79-point game with two trips to the line.

Perhaps LSU would have been a better team; perhaps Pete would have been a better NBA player, if he hadn't shot so much. There are plenty of lists that rank him the second-best NBA shooter in history, behind Bird. Others clips that show the top ten passes in NBA history show four or more of his. Whatever the case, there's never been anyone like him, before or since. Not that he was the best player. He just had skills that nobody else has every shown.

Nobody in the NBA - nobody - has ever had Maravich's ball-handling skills or passing skills, not even Bird when it came to passing skills. Maravich had more no-look assist passes in a season that other 'highlight film' players enjoy in a career.

When he died, and ESPN put together highlight reels, people said "D*MN! As each play surpassed the play before it for four straight minutes."

I'm not an NBA fan. I watched those highlights - and other reels of highlights since - and almost wept at what I missed.

46 posted on 03/28/2011 2:55:44 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: Colofornian

Your hatred for everything LDS is getting you a bit carried away don’t your think? I don’t have time to hate your church, I hope you experience there is a great one. I loved my Methodist church growing up. They were great people.


47 posted on 03/28/2011 2:59:06 PM PDT by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: Colofornian
And you might want to stop hiding behind stupid parenthesis, and assuming journalists are smart, let alone aware of aspects of Mormonism.

But nice try using an idiot liberal's trash of Jimmer support your hate of Mormonism.

48 posted on 03/28/2011 4:22:30 PM PDT by rintense (The GOP elite & friends can pound sand.)
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To: Colofornian

Pretty much any game in overtime is a shave. It was a 2 possession game midway into overtime, not really much of a beatdown. Plus, BYU beat Florida the year before in OT. So Jimmer has some success against them.

In 2010, he got 37
In 2011, he got 32

Thats pretty good.


49 posted on 03/28/2011 4:39:20 PM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: driftless2
I check 3 pt percentages for Goudelock and Fridette and they are .407 vs .396 respectively saw Gouelock vs Wichita state. If you like 3 pt shooting check that game. It was a circus.
50 posted on 03/31/2011 11:19:50 PM PDT by smaug6 (We can't afford to be innocent!! Stand up and face the enemy.)
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