Posted on 04/07/2011 5:34:56 AM PDT by Cronos
lol.. I agree. Instead, tho today, some of us are ruled by Ahmadinejad the oriental ape (btw, apes/monkeys are not indigenous to Iran) & Obama the WTF... except that the latter was, supposedly, much more “democratically elected” Not much progess, eh?
Although Cronos introduced the concept of democracy when I mentioned Athenian literature, up the thread, I’ll take a stab at this.
a. Democracy, by my definition, is direct voting on major affairs, such as was conducted in Athens.
b. Contemporary European nations are not democratic.
c. The United States’s particular form of “representative democracy” was developed under the influence of British political theorists - those fun guys, Locke and Hume, and hard-partying Charles James Fox. These writers were influenced by the experience of the Roman Republic as reported by writers such as Cicero and Plutarch, and a bit of Aristotle and Plato. Our founders did not choose to follow any model or theory fully, but drew elements from different historical sources and theories, paying attention to what had succeeded and failed among the past examples.
Happy Saturday! We’re off to the South Carolina zoo.
One of the good things about modern life is that people who never go anywhere except Walmart (such as myself) can see the ruins of Persepolis on television.
America wouldn’t exist.
One of the little know points of history was prior to the Islamic expansion out of Arabia. Two devastating things happened to the Roman & Persian worlds. First they had just concluded a long bitter, exhausting manpower & treasury’s a very damaging war between the two empires. Second the Roman (Eastern Roman or Byzantine) Empire and the Sassanian Persian Empire suffered one of the first recorded (at least by the West) devastating out breaks of the Black Death (either Bubonic or Pneumatic or both!). Its difficult to tell how Arabia was affected by the out break since little written record has survived and maybe it was unaffected because it was a little bit of the beaten path of trade. Arabic Islam essentially expanded into an exhausted Persian empire. There are a few Eastern Roman records talking about problems with a few non-Christian but Ishmaelite Arab (Interesting term!) tribes and how there were too few troops in the area to oppose them.
That’s interesting, thanks.
Had Alexander & later the Arab & Monghol invaders of Iran not burned down libraries & all sorts of books in Iran, we would most probably now know far more about historical events from the Persian perspective, instead of mostly the Greek historian such as Herodotus. IOW, we now would have a much more balanced account of events.
The moslem-arabs in particular, burned many books, not limited to Philosophy or Zoroastrian religion, but also about Mathematics, Algebra, Geometry, Sciences, Medicine, etc.. - many were written during the Sassanian period; others were much older.
For example, Pythogarus the Greek philosopher and mathematician spent 20 years of his life in Iran and “Babylon”, (which was a part of the ancient Persian Empire), according to his biography. During this time he learned the knowledge of the “Moghaan” (Magi). His philosophy of light was under the influence of Persians who believed in spherical Earth rotating around the central Sun. There has also been doubts about the famous theory of right angle triangles.
Equally, the Greeks had no progressive calculation and mathematics and nothing to offer in Algebra, Babylonians (part of ancient Persian Empire) were using a numeric system and had even invented 0. At this time Greeks used alphabets for numbers.
Btw, if interested in post-Islam period, A book entitled Two Centuries of Silence by Abdolhossein Zarrinkoob (a contemporary Iranian writer/historian) is a good one. It has chapters about pre-Islam history too, but focuses on post-Islam, during & immediately after Arab-Moslem invasion of Persia.
b. Contemporary European nations are not democratic.
But per the definition about "democracy" even "representative democracy" in your previously reply, most, if not all contemporary European nations do vote! So, how are they not democratic?
Our founders did not choose to follow any model or theory fully, but drew elements from different historical sources and theories, paying attention to what had succeeded and failed among the past examples.
Thought so. My understanding is that one of the Main theories was that of Cyrus the Great & his declaration of Human Rights, which features more so in the American "Bill of Rights".
previously = previous reply
fyi - if you haven’t already been pinged for this thread.
Could you post an English text of the relevant portions? I was scrolling through "FarsiNet" looking at it when something blew up in the next room ... emergency dog walk, or Sheldon having a psychotic meltdown, or whatever.
Here is the more relevant parts:
“Now that I put the crown of kingdom of Iran, Babylon, and the nations of the four directions on the head with the help of (Ahura) Mazda, I announce that I will respect the traditions, customs and religions of the nations of my empire and never let any of my governors and subordinates look down on or insult them until I am alive. From now on, till (Ahura) Mazda grants me the kingdom favor, I will impose my monarchy on no nation. Each is free to accept it , and if any one of them rejects it , I never resolve on war to reign. Until I am the king of Iran, Babylon, and the nations of the four directions, I never let anyone oppress any others, and if it occurs , I will take his or her right back and penalize the oppressor. And until I am the monarch, I will never let anyone take possession of movable and landed properties of the others by force or without compensation. Until I am alive, I prevent unpaid, forced labor. To day, I announce that everyone is free to choose a religion. People are free to live in all regions and take up a job provided that they never violate other’s rights. No one could be penalized for his or her relatives’ faults. I prevent slavery and my governors and subordinates are obliged to prohibit exchanging men and women as slaves within their own ruling domains. Such a traditions should be exterminated the world over. I implore to (Ahura) Mazda to make me succeed in fulfilling my obligations to the nations of Iran (Persia), Babylon, and the ones of the four directions.” — http://www.farsinet.com/cyrus/
Another English translation: http://www.cyrusthegreat.net/id8.html
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